# Deep 6 FaWtL

### Off-Topic Discussions

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Vanykrye wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Also, same question for the cost of rings of wizardry. I have worked out a formula but I’m curious if there is something else that I missed. Thanks! You guys are all awesome!
Pretty sure that one was ad hoc.

Intentionally responding - and getting dressed - yeah that’s what I thought. If you break it into cost instead of price, a hint of a formula kind of emerges (with a price increase and an increase to the amount increased every two) but it’s definitely an imposed formula rather than a proven one.

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Tacticslion wrote:
Vanykrye wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:

Rules question: what is the base formula for an orange prism ious stone?

That is, what is the price for that +1 bonus and how was it derived?

It seems like I should know this. I even kind of remember this conversation once. I cannot find it at all.

That one might be a bit more ad hoc.

Usual formulas for static bonus would be things like "bonus squared times a constant". Slotless items are then doubled.

If that's the case, to get a 30k market value, it would be something like this:

Slotless (the double cost part): 30k/2 = 15k
+1 caster level (bonus squared times a constant): 1*1*15k = the remaining 15k

Again, I don't know that's *exactly* what they did, but it tends to follow the common theme.

Yeah that’s the ad hoc formula I first came up with - but it seemed small for what it was, and it leaves me questioning where the 15 came from in the first place. EDIT: to be clear I had been turning this around for a bit before heading to FaWtL. I came up with the “15*weapon” pretty exclusively as a “shirt and swift” joke idea for FaWtL, but this was about the best formula I could come up with. Thanks!

EDIT: I mean, the CL is 12, so that’s not it. It’s just a weird and arbitrary system and with a sample size of exactly one, it’s hard to get a general formula. I just didn’t know if anyone has seen a discussion about it or developer notes on it. Or if they could show me something I’m missing! But having a second person come up with the squared bonus is, at least, a useful metric to ensure that I wasn’t way off base for some reason.

Assuming they didn't ad hoc it, then probably because it's a relatively very high number. Weapons use bonus squared times 2000. Armor is 1000. Stat bonus is 1000. It could be that they are going with the Spell Resistance model as well, where it's a flat number, then doubled for being slotless.

Yeah. I’m guessing it’s a formula or it’s a hand-me-down from an older edition, but there are enough arbitrary things that it really could be whatever.

(I’m looking at you, monk’s belt/robe. >:/ )

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

You can add Return to Witch Mountain to the list of movies that haven't aged well.

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captain yesterday wrote:
You can add Return to Witch Mountain to the list of movies that haven't aged well.

OMG. Try watching the original Highlander. It's excruciating.

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NobodysHome wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
You can add Return to Witch Mountain to the list of movies that haven't aged well.
OMG. Try watching the original Highlander. It's excruciating.

That at least has redeeming qualities, unlike the sequel.

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Kung Pow: Enter the Fist was much funnier to young TOZ.

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Cheesy 80s sword and sorcery films are my special favourite.

I haven't seen 'Highlander'... but I will.

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Tacticslion wrote:

His modules are famed for being hard and deadly, as I recall - I think it’s a call back to a slightly older style of adventure writing. He is hailed for it, I think. Has a popular fanbase - probably because it calls upon older styles of play to inform itself. But! That’s just a guess.

(Also, even by shutting them down, he does, at least, address various difficult PC abilities rather than writing a thing that ignores them and is then flabbergasted when they use them; that has to count for something, even if his style doesn’t align to preference!)

Well, I think at this point I should just say, "I disagree with the philosophy that in order to make things hard and deadly, you must break the rules and/or disable character abilities. I also disagree with single-tracking the PCs," and leave it at that.

Both the Runewell in Rise of the Runelords and Scarwall in Curse of the Crimson Throne show excellent ways to get around those nasty PCs without a blanket, "Rocks fall, some of your abilities no longer work," statement.

EDIT: The funniest part being that Crimson Throne was pretty much a, "Rocks fall, some of your abilities no longer work," event, but it was so well done that the PCs found it visceral and believable.

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Limeylongears wrote:

Cheesy 80s sword and sorcery films are my special favourite.

I haven't seen 'Highlander'... but I will.

Oh it’s a wreck. I love it, mind, but it’s a right terrible(-y awesome) film!

(I also love Hudson Hawk, so.)

NobodysHome wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:

His modules are famed for being hard and deadly, as I recall - I think it’s a call back to a slightly older style of adventure writing. He is hailed for it, I think. Has a popular fanbase - probably because it calls upon older styles of play to inform itself. But! That’s just a guess.

(Also, even by shutting them down, he does, at least, address various difficult PC abilities rather than writing a thing that ignores them and is then flabbergasted when they use them; that has to count for something, even if his style doesn’t align to preference!)

Well, I think at this point I should just say, "I disagree with the philosophy that in order to make things hard and deadly, you must break the rules and/or disable character abilities. I also disagree with single-tracking the PCs," and leave it at that.

Both the Runewell in Rise of the Runelords and Scarwall in Curse of the Crimson Throne show excellent ways to get around those nasty PCs without a blanket, "Rocks fall, some of your abilities no longer work," statement.

EDIT: The funniest part being that Crimson Throne was pretty much a, "Rocks fall, some of your abilities no longer work," event, but it was so well done that the PCs found it visceral and believable.

Yeah, no, I’m not really disagreeing with you, just pointing out his relative popularity and one of its guessed-at sources. :)

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Vanykrye wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
You can add Return to Witch Mountain to the list of movies that haven't aged well.
OMG. Try watching the original Highlander. It's excruciating.
That at least has redeeming qualities, unlike the sequel.

NO SUCH FILM EXISTS, SIR, AND YOU SHALL APOLOGIZE FOR THE LIBEL. THE SERIES SKIPS STRAIGHT TO FILM THREE AND THAT IS HOW MATH WORKS.

(I mean, film three wasn’t great, mind, but it was better! ... uh, than something that doesn’t exist!)

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On a *total* side note, there's always a bit of sadness around tax time when you end up being far too right for your tastes.

"So... last year I owed about \$2000, and this year I put in an extra \$3000, but our adjusted gross income is about \$3000 higher. That's a wash, so calculate the tax credit from the solar, and that should be about it..."

And I calculated the credit from my solar and was within \$50 of my final refund.

I was hoping to be at least a little wrong.

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Tacticslion wrote:
Limeylongears wrote:

Cheesy 80s sword and sorcery films are my special favourite.

I haven't seen 'Highlander'... but I will.

Oh it’s a wreck. I love it, mind, but it’s a right terrible(-y awesome) film!

(I also love Hudson Hawk, so.)

The Fifth Element for the win! I love that terrible movie!

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Kung Pow: Enter the Fist was much funnier to young TOZ.

GOPHER CHUCKS FTW!

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captain yesterday wrote:
Orthos wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
If you ever have to get someone you hate (and I mean, really, really hate) a present, get them a pizza stone.
Okay, gotta ask why. If only because my parents have one and they love it.
They are a pain in the ass to take care of (especially if you don't get top of the line) and they're only good for one thing.

Disagree. Once you've got it well seasoned, it's no more a pain than cast iron.

And, in addition to pizza, it's perfect for biscuits, scones, and tuna melts. Which I'm not crazy about, but my kids love.
(I've used mine three times in the past week.)

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My movie that hasn't aged well is Short Circuit.

Loved it at the time. Rewatched it with Eve this summer, because we were looking forward to sharing it with our kids. It was kinda horrific.

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Mine is Batteries Not Included. And Short Circuit . Couple others. Several others, if I'm honest with myself.

"Oh, them. From Philadelphia."

LOLOLOLOLOL-SEE IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE HE'S FOOOOOOOOOOOREIGN

I still laugh about that at times, I'm afraid. Well, that, and "I AM NOT MAD; I AM AN AN-GER-REE, AN-GER-REE SCIENTIST!" which... I honestly forget literally everything about whatever cartoon that comes from, except that. I may be a bad person for that.

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Tacticslion wrote:
Well, that, and "I AM NOT MAD; I AM AN AN-GER-REE, AN-GER-REE SCIENTIST!" which... I honestly forget literally everything about whatever cartoon that comes from, except that. I may be a bad person for that.

The villain Doctor Gangrene from the Attack of the Killer Tomatoes cartoon.

Wow. I remember that cartoon, now, but still couldn't tell you that he comes from that. I suuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

Orthos wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Well, that, and "I AM NOT MAD; I AM AN AN-GER-REE, AN-GER-REE SCIENTIST!" which... I honestly forget literally everything about whatever cartoon that comes from, except that. I may be a bad person for that.
The villain Doctor Gangrene from the Attack of the Killer Tomatoes cartoon.

Dang it, I'm listening to the theme song now. In my heeeeaaaad

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I loved those movies!

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I never actually saw the movies, just the cartoon.

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So I deleted the PDF that was broken, got back in contact with my friend, got the PDF back, and... my email won't handle it. HUZZAH

Orthos wrote:
I never actually saw the movies, just the cartoon.

Like me! I knew there was a movie, and I think I technically saw the end on Comedy Central once (I remember thinking, "Wait, isn't that a cartoon? Huh.") but I don't really remember anything about it.

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Orthos wrote:
I never actually saw the movies, just the cartoon.

I've only seen the movies.

They are hilarious! Bad, very, very bad. But hilarious!

While I'm asking, anyone not on Discord that wants to be, PM me! I'll try to get back with you tonight, before 10!

EDIT: 10 PM US Eastern time XD

Tacticslion wrote:

"Oh, them. From Philadelphia."

LOLOLOLOLOL-SEE IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE HE'S FOOOOOOOOOOOREIGN

I still laugh about that at times, I'm afraid. Well, that, and "I AM NOT MAD; I AM AN AN-GER-REE, AN-GER-REE SCIENTIST!" which... I honestly forget literally everything about whatever cartoon that comes from, except that. I may be a bad person for that.

...I think it's this. I have no idea why I remember this existing.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

OH SNAP THAT WAS A CARTOON I SAW

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This just in, the rules are made up and the points don't matter. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

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Age-Shmage!

ALL of the old, 80's-era movies are STILL awesome!
Their very cheesy-ness enhances their lifespan exponentially!

I proved this (to myself, if no one else) a few years ago. I was recovering from surgery, (OUT D@%M CANCER!) and discovered that netflix had/has a treasure trove of old (admittedly some very bad) 80's sci-fi and fantasy flicks.

I watched them ALL. (OK< all that I could find, and watch until my eyes hurt from staring at the dang TV all day. Did I mention that Surgery sucks?!?) ;P
Including some I had never seen or even heard of before. :D

My favorite that (probably) hasnt aged well (OR at least hasnt aged as well as maybe some others) is Flash Gordon.
;)
SO bad, its GOOD!

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Orthos wrote:
This just in, the rules are made up and the points don't matter. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

Oi vay, this. Yes.

'They' even have admitted that the original items were merely priced half-hazardly, befitting how rare 'they' thought the items should be. And 'they' simply kept the same basic classification of said items when 'they' updated it to new editions/versions of the game.
;P

And the 'current' rules, (havent read 2nd PF ed yet) are so confusing,... simple items cost a fortune, but creative items that actually break rules and action economy are affordable?!?!?
O_o

THIS, is why I only rarely try to design my own magical toys. ;)

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Remember: If a poster with a pretty picture and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you at work, then you probably have a very easy job. The kind of job that will soon be done by robots.

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What do blind people do when they get sick? Seriously. It's not like they can see a doctor.

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I dig.
You dig.
He digs.
She digs.
We dig.
They dig.

It's not a great poem, but it is pretty deep.

gran rey de los mono wrote:

I dig.

You dig.
He digs.
She digs.
We dig.
They dig.

It's not a great poem, but it is pretty deep.

That said, I prefer something more uplifting.

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Tsk.

Actually unrelated to either of the two links above: a musician you've enjoyed disappears for a few years and you find out shortly after re-finding him that it's because he released a few (since-deleted) actively awful things. Sigh.

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Tacticslion wrote:

Tsk.

Actually unrelated to either of the two links above: a musician you've enjoyed disappears for a few years and you find out shortly after re-finding him that it's because he released a few (since-deleted) actively awful things. Sigh.

On the flip side, you find an artist you haven't listened to in years (Everlast) only to find out he's actually one of your friends (Vanykrye).

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captain yesterday wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:

Tsk.

Actually unrelated to either of the two links above: a musician you've enjoyed disappears for a few years and you find out shortly after re-finding him that it's because he released a few (since-deleted) actively awful things. Sigh.

On the flip side, you find an artist you haven't listened to in years (Everlast) only to find out he's actually one of your friends (Vanykrye).

You keep saying that and eventually someone is going to believe you.

EDIT: Who are you going to say I am once I shave?

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Vanykrye wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:

Tsk.

Actually unrelated to either of the two links above: a musician you've enjoyed disappears for a few years and you find out shortly after re-finding him that it's because he released a few (since-deleted) actively awful things. Sigh.

On the flip side, you find an artist you haven't listened to in years (Everlast) only to find out he's actually one of your friends (Vanykrye).
You keep saying that and eventually someone is going to believe you.

That's also why I tell everyone I look like Brad Pitt from Legends of the Fall.

Even though I look more like Antonio Banderas (according to my kids).

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Ragadolf wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
STOP HOGGING ALL THE SNOW
Just thought you'd like to know it's snowing in Breath of the Wild, like, right now. During a lightning storm. It's beautiful, really.
THUNDERSNOOOOOOOOOW

I have actually driven through /in a Thundersnowstorm.

it is,... Not as much fun as it sounds.
O_o
For the 'Young me driver', coming back from visiting a girlfriend who lived outside of the main city, it was particularly terrifying. ;P

young you driving?

I thought they only had horses back then, with those new tangled stirrup things?

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Vanykrye wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Vanykrye wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:

Rules question: what is the base formula for an orange prism ious stone?

That is, what is the price for that +1 bonus and how was it derived?

It seems like I should know this. I even kind of remember this conversation once. I cannot find it at all.

That one might be a bit more ad hoc.

Usual formulas for static bonus would be things like "bonus squared times a constant". Slotless items are then doubled.

If that's the case, to get a 30k market value, it would be something like this:

Slotless (the double cost part): 30k/2 = 15k
+1 caster level (bonus squared times a constant): 1*1*15k = the remaining 15k

Again, I don't know that's *exactly* what they did, but it tends to follow the common theme.

Yeah that’s the ad hoc formula I first came up with - but it seemed small for what it was, and it leaves me questioning where the 15 came from in the first place. EDIT: to be clear I had been turning this around for a bit before heading to FaWtL. I came up with the “15*weapon” pretty exclusively as a “shirt and swift” joke idea for FaWtL, but this was about the best formula I could come up with. Thanks!

EDIT: I mean, the CL is 12, so that’s not it. It’s just a weird and arbitrary system and with a sample size of exactly one, it’s hard to get a general formula. I just didn’t know if anyone has seen a discussion about it or developer notes on it. Or if they could show me something I’m missing! But having a second person come up with the squared bonus is, at least, a useful metric to ensure that I wasn’t way off base for some reason.

Assuming they didn't ad hoc it, then probably because it's a relatively very high number. Weapons use bonus squared times 2000. Armor is 1000. Stat bonus is 1000. It could be that they are going with the Spell Resistance model as well, where it's a flat number, then doubled for being slotless.

reaches for shotgun

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Tacticslion wrote:
Vanykrye wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
You can add Return to Witch Mountain to the list of movies that haven't aged well.
OMG. Try watching the original Highlander. It's excruciating.
That at least has redeeming qualities, unlike the sequel.

NO SUCH FILM EXISTS, SIR, AND YOU SHALL APOLOGIZE FOR THE LIBEL. THE SERIES SKIPS STRAIGHT TO FILM THREE AND THAT IS HOW MATH WORKS.

(I mean, film three wasn’t great, mind, but it was better! ... uh, than something that doesn’t exist!)

I paid money to see Highlander Endgame in theatres.

...

I will leave it at that.

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Orthos wrote:
I never actually saw the movies, just the cartoon.

There IS no Death Star. The senate was informed Jedda was destroyed in a mining disaster.

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Ragadolf wrote:

Age-Shmage!

ALL of the old, 80's-era movies are STILL awesome!
Their very cheesy-ness enhances their lifespan exponentially!

I proved this (to myself, if no one else) a few years ago. I was recovering from surgery, (OUT D@%M CANCER!) and discovered that netflix had/has a treasure trove of old (admittedly some very bad) 80's sci-fi and fantasy flicks.

I watched them ALL. (OK< all that I could find, and watch until my eyes hurt from staring at the dang TV all day. Did I mention that Surgery sucks?!?) ;P
Including some I had never seen or even heard of before. :D

My favorite that (probably) hasnt aged well (OR at least hasnt aged as well as maybe some others) is Flash Gordon.
;)
SO bad, its GOOD!

I met the actor who played him

My god. What an a@&!~&\$.

Freehold DM wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Vanykrye wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
You can add Return to Witch Mountain to the list of movies that haven't aged well.
OMG. Try watching the original Highlander. It's excruciating.
That at least has redeeming qualities, unlike the sequel.

NO SUCH FILM EXISTS, SIR, AND YOU SHALL APOLOGIZE FOR THE LIBEL. THE SERIES SKIPS STRAIGHT TO FILM THREE AND THAT IS HOW MATH WORKS.

(I mean, film three wasn’t great, mind, but it was better! ... uh, than something that doesn’t exist!)

I paid money to see Highlander Endgame in theatres.

...

I will leave it at that.

I will say, as far as crossing the two series over, it was definitely not the worst way they could handle it. Had some pretty good and interesting moments, too.

Kell, though. He was just... inexplicable. Plot holes galore!

... it was better than The Source? Yes? No? Maybe?

Also, I just learned that eleven years ago the series was primed for a remake which... never happened. I don't know how I feel about that.

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I think I just overthink things.

For both Clone Wars and the Highlander series, all I could think was, "Any character I come to like in this series will die by violence within the next 25 years."

And it was such a depressing thought that I didn't want to watch either series because I didn't want to become attached to characters I knew were going to die horribly.

NobodysHome wrote:

I think I just overthink things.

For both Clone Wars and the Highlander series, all I could think was, "Any character I come to like in this series will die by violence within the next 25 years."

And it was such a depressing thought that I didn't want to watch either series because I didn't want to become attached to characters I knew were going to die horribly.

That's super-fair, but it's also exactly the point (or at least a part of it) of both series - the tragedy is part of the story.

For immortals it was fascinating to see them laugh, hang out, and share a party. They're old companions, friends, and fellows. Who will eventually (and soon by the start of the first film) have to kill each other.

For the Clone Wars, it's a tragedy in progress - we know it ends poorly, but it is about the, "how?" and, "why?" that we follow, rather than for the, "what?"

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Freehold DM wrote:
Ragadolf wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
STOP HOGGING ALL THE SNOW
Just thought you'd like to know it's snowing in Breath of the Wild, like, right now. During a lightning storm. It's beautiful, really.
THUNDERSNOOOOOOOOOW

I have actually driven through /in a Thundersnowstorm.

it is,... Not as much fun as it sounds.
O_o
For the 'Young me driver', coming back from visiting a girlfriend who lived outside of the main city, it was particularly terrifying. ;P

young you driving?

I thought they only had horses back then, with those new tangled stirrup things?

HORSES?!?

Horses were new fangled. We all thought they were only a fad!
And only the rich brats,... erm, 'well-to-do' had them.

When I was a lil' wizard, I had to HIKE to Wizard school.
It was 10 miles, through 5'-10' of snow,
Uphill,
Both ways! 'There and back again!'
;P

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Round 3: Create a Bestiary entry                                     Round 4: Design an encounter                                     Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal                               RPG Superstar™ 2015                                     Open Call: Design a magic armor, weapon, ring, rod, or staff                                     Round 2: Create a map                                     Round 3: Create a Bestiary entry                                     Round 4: Design an encounter                                     Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal                               RPG Superstar™ 2014                                     Open Call: Design a wondrous item                                     Round 2: Create a Bestiary entry                                     Round 3: Design an encounter                                     Round 4: Submit an adventure proposal                               RPG Superstar™ 2013                                     Open Call: Design a wondrous item                                     Round 2: Design an archetype                                     Round 3: Create a Bestiary entry                                     Round 4: Design an encounter                                     Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal                               RPG Superstar™ 2012                                     General Discussion                                     Open Call: Design a wondrous item                                     Round 2: Create a new organization                                     Round 3: Create a Bestiary entry                                     Round 4: Design an encounter                                     Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal                               RPG Superstar™ 2011                                     General Discussion                                     Open Call: Design a wondrous item                                     Round 2: Design an archetype 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                      Round 4: Design a villain's lair                                     Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal                               RPG Superstar™ 2008                                     General Discussion                                     Open Call: Design a wondrous item                                     Round 2: Design a country                                     Round 3: Design a villain                                     Round 4: Design thematically linked monsters                                     Round 5: Design an encounter                                     Round 6: Submit an adventure proposal                   Game Space             Starfinder                   Character Operations Manual Playtest                         General Discussion                         Biohacker                         Vanguard                         Witchwarper             Pathfinder                   Playtests & Prerelease Discussions                         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Discussion: Round 1                               Ninja Discussion: Round 1                               Samurai Discussion: Round 1                               Gunslinger Discussion: Round 2                         Ultimate Magic Playtest                               Announcements and General Discussion                               Round 1: Magus                               Round 2: Words of Power Playtest                               Round 2: Words of Power Discussion                               Round 3: Revised Magus Playtest                               Round 3: Revised Magus Discussion                         Advanced Player's Guide Playtest                               General Discussion                               Round 1: Cavalier and Oracle                               Round 2: Summoner and Witch                               Round 3: Alchemist and Inquisitor                               Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest                         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