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*gets dressed*
Sigh.
heres hoping shes better than she sounds...Well, our first session with No Girl is today, and we're all hoping she's nicer in person than she's been on emails. In summary:
Email #1: "I always play a half-elf and I never heal."
Email #2: "I'm going to play a class from one of the books you don't allow."
Email #3: "Here's a list of all the background mysteries surrounding my PC that I'd like you to roll into your story."
Email #4: "I don't do backgrounds or writeups." (Combine that with #3 and it's pretty much, "Hey, you're the GM! Do a bunch of legwork for me!")
Email #5: "Here are two vignettes from my character's past that I want you to integrate into your story."
The first vignette is her going dungeon delving with a group of brigands, having it be too tough for them so they fled, and having her solo the rest of the dungeon, take all the loot, then rub it in the brigands' faces how much better she was than all of them.First-level PC, meet Angry Commoners
So yeah, just, "Here's all the stuff I won't do for the rest of the party/players, and here's all the stuff I want you to do for me.
I may just nickname her WW II if she's as bad in person as she is in email.
My response:
1) cool, whatevs, sounds fine2) eh, not-so-cool; the answer is 'no'
3) kinda neat; no promises
4) what? what about the email you just sent? Whatevs, just means your character history is my play thing
5) remember that thing you said about write-ups and background? It's too late. You're secretly a half-orc bar waitress with delusions of anything-other-than-orc (so you insist that you're half-elf) and delusions of two specific events. You've got minimum starting wealth (that is, 0; I'll be nice, though, and round up - after all, you have a profession!), and you're equipment consists of: commoner's clothes and a waitress uniform (that is ugly and unflattering, because they've had problems with waitresses getting harassed before, and instead of fixing it, they just got uglier uniforms). Here's your character sheet. Please be sure to read all the way to the end.
Level 1 Commoner, half-orc (half-orc, orc)
Str 12
Dex 10
Con 10
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 8
hp 4; AC 10; Fortitude +0, Reflex +0, Will +0; +2 fortitude v. diseases
BaB +0; CMB +1; CMD 11
Melee: unarmed strike -3 (1d4+1, nonlethal)
(NOTE: -2 opportunity attack; requires Improved Unarmed Strike feat to use)
Ranged: none [thrown object, 5 ft.] -3 (1d3+1)
SLA (CL 1st {as HD}, Concentration +0)
- (1/day): stabilize
- (1/week per level): kiss of the first world
- at level 3, (1/day) you may use celestial healing or cure light wounds
- at level 5, gain cure moderate wounds (1/day)
- at level 7, gain cure serious wounds (1/day)
- at level 9, (1/day) you may use celestial healing, greater, cure critical wounds, persistent vigor or reincarnate
- at level 11, (1/day) you may use breath of life, cure light wounds, mass or raise dead
- at level 13, (1/day) you may use cure moderate wounds, mass, cyclic reincarnation, or heal
- at level 15, (1/day) you may use cure serious wounds, mass, regenerate, or resurrection
- at level 17, (1/day) you may use cure critical wounds, mass
- at level 19, (1/day) you may use heal, mass or true resurrection
Skills: appraise -1, bluff +0, climb +1, craft -1, diplomacy -1, disguise -1, handle animal -1, heal +9, intimidate -1, knowledge (all but local) -1, knowledge (local) +0, linguistics -1, perform -1, profession (waitress) +4, sense motive +1, spellcraft -1, swim +1, use device -1
{whenever you take 20 on heal skill check to treat deadly wounds, you restore an additional +6 hit points}
{you may use Heal in half the normal amount of time}
> Perception: low-light vision
> Languages: Common, Orc
Feat: skill focus (heal)
Racial: ferocity, fey thoughts (bluff and stealth as class skills),
orckin (count as half-orc and orc)
Flaw: crippling debt (you owe a mobster 1,500 gold; that said, once paid, they'll never bother you again), delusional (you insist and apparently believe you're a half-elf and you think you actually looted a whole dungeon and intimidated some brigands), feyborn (already applied in various ways)
Trait: addict, bullied, greenblooded, devoted natural healer
unique traits: healing savant; on the same page
Healing Savant
You have a natural talent with healing, and are capable of making an entire profession out of it... if only you applied yourself.
Benefit: You may use the Heal skill instead of the Profession skill to make money. In addition, you gain a +2 bonus to checks with the Heal skill and may do so in half the normal time, and treat your level as 1 higher whenever you use any (healing) magical effect.
On the Same Page
Your emails come across as rather unreasonable. Please see the rules for playing with us in this game.
Benefit: You may disregard this character. In exchange, you may select a race and class from one of the approved books, and you may request that I tie one or more elements into your character's backstory (preferably no more than three) with the understanding that there are no promises or guarantees that this will happen (because the GM - that's me - is a busy person with a life and stuff I gots ta do).
I'm going to let you do this whole vignette thing... once. Check how I put it, below, to figure how it can integrate into a campaign for a first level character. After this game, you're writing your back story with the same management of expectations and power level. If that is not possible, I'm afraid this isn't likely to work out.
> Vignette 1: When you were younger, you and three first level commoners who'd decided to turn to brigandry invaded a local slum-house. A bigger, more dangerous adventurer demanded to know what's going on, and his/her Intimidate skill scared off your fellows. The adventurer found you amusing, so s/he handed you 7 coppers and a basic dagger, admonishing you not to be so dumb next time and to choose your friends better. You were allowed to explore the semi-abandoned building (the adventurer and his/her group were planning on using it as a staging area) and select a single item from: a mirror, a rope, a crowbar, a small lockbox with key (basic lock).
-> Character Option: Did you rub it in the face of those who'd gone adventuring with you, but were scared off? Please select yes or no.
-=> IF YES: See one of two options, below (determined by GM):
OPTION ONE (50%): You were beat up, your money was stolen, and you were left unconscious.
OPTION TWO (50%): You made life-long enemies. Now three powerful, influential, and wealthy characters in their own right, these three have never forgiven your arrogance and cruelty.
-=> IF NO: Did you hide it from them, or did you tell them? Or did you just leave and never see them again?
HIDE IT 1 (50%): Your fellows were suspicious, but nothing ever came of it.
HIDE IT 2 (50%): One of your fellows cottoned on to the whole business, and either (50%) stole your stuff and scarpered off with it, or (50%) told the rest. Diplomacy DC 25 Success: they don't hate you; Failure: they hate you (see option 1).
TELL THEM OPENLY, BUT GENTLY: Well, they're embarrassed and kind of disappointed, but they get over it.
LEAVE AND NEVER SEE THEM AGAIN: Who knows? They probably think you died there and felt bad forever.
See you on Monday!
I'm so dressed, I'm dressed twice!
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Er, yeah...
Her very first action in the very first combat of the campaign was an attempt to steal the most valuable item in the chest they'd just opened.
So not even, "I don't heal," but, "I don't actively participate in combat, but instead use it as an excuse to steal from the party loot while the other PCs are otherwise distracted; for example, by fighting for their lives..."
Ooohohohohoh~! Sounds like someone just "volunteered" for a "power upgrade"...!
(By "power upgrade" I, of course, mean, "cursed magic item" that often turns the character into an NPC.)
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Er, yeah...
Her very first action in the very first combat of the campaign was an attempt to steal the most valuable item in the chest they'd just opened.
So not even, "I don't heal," but, "I don't actively participate in combat, but instead use it as an excuse to steal from the party loot while the other PCs are otherwise distracted; for example, by fighting for their lives..."
How has the rest of the party taken this?
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You know what? Nah. Doesn't even work that way.
That's too harsh.
Instead, it's a free magic item, time!
Item:
==================================
Lovely's Majestic Lifecleanse (minor artifact)
----------------------------------
This item looks like a completely different item. Has the wrong aura, too, 'cause, haha, you tried to steal from the part.
Every attempted deception, theft, and stealth instead causes you to be dazed for a round, glow like a torch (as if by the light cantrip and glitterdust spell - the latter only affecting you, not an area, and the former applies directly to your body instead of an object), and use a channel energy effect as if you were a cleric of your level. You may use this channel energy with no downsides (other than the effect itself) up to three times per day.
Each use after the third, however, increases your fatigue. The first time you are fatigued. The second time you are exhausted. The third time you are unconscious.
Any attempt to force the healing effect to happen doesn't work - instead, you're subject to the enervation spell. Any attempt to get rid of this object requires a remove curse (or more powerful spell that can do something similar: you know the usual suite) that has a Caster Level DC 40 to succeed. Each failure causes fatigue on the bearer of the item.
----------------------------------
Destruction: Lovely's Majestic Lifecleanse only falls out of existence if it feels that it's actually done its job. A creature must live up to its high standards of virtue - generosity, kindness, and selflessness - and do so for either fifty years or five levels (whichever comes first). After that time, the item fades away, but is not gone, completely. For another fifty years (or five levels) the former bearer must not fall prey to his or her own base desires: should they fall back into their party-sabotaging ways, they will instantly be re-burdened with Lovely's Majestic Lifecleanse. If you successfully uphold a basic morality for ten character levels, the item will leave you forever... even if you later backslide into your cruel ways. However, those who've once touched Lovely's Majestic Lifecleanse often have only two ultimate fates: either they take the warning to heart and learn the lesson, or they fall prey to a mysterious series of curses and afflictions, almost as if they were given over to the very forces of villainy that champion betraying one's boon companions.
===========================
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Er, yeah...
Her very first action in the very first combat of the campaign was an attempt to steal the most valuable item in the chest they'd just opened.
So not even, "I don't heal," but, "I don't actively participate in combat, but instead use it as an excuse to steal from the party loot while the other PCs are otherwise distracted; for example, by fighting for their lives..."
Is that all, man the stories I could tell!
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Well, our first session with No Girl is today, and we're all hoping she's nicer in person than she's been on emails. In summary:
Email #1: "I always play a half-elf and I never heal."
Email #2: "I'm going to play a class from one of the books you don't allow."
Email #3: "Here's a list of all the background mysteries surrounding my PC that I'd like you to roll into your story."
Email #4: "I don't do backgrounds or writeups." (Combine that with #3 and it's pretty much, "Hey, you're the GM! Do a bunch of legwork for me!")
Email #5: "Here are two vignettes from my character's past that I want you to integrate into your story."
The first vignette is her going dungeon delving with a group of brigands, having it be too tough for them so they fled, and having her solo the rest of the dungeon, take all the loot, then rub it in the brigands' faces how much better she was than all of them.First-level PC, meet Angry Commoners
So yeah, just, "Here's all the stuff I won't do for the rest of the party/players, and here's all the stuff I want you to do for me.
I may just nickname her WW II if she's as bad in person as she is in email.
Have you considered saying "No"?
If that doesn't work "Well, your ass is booted from my group" is often functional.
F@~~ing munchkin.
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LOLOL. I'm definitely linking TL's ideas -- especially the half-orc commoner with delusions of grandeur.
Lisamarlene put it well: Shiro is Chaotic Sadistic. He's already looking forward to the moment she actually needs healing, at which point he'll charge her oh, a magic item per spell. Impus Minor is neutral on her at the moment. GothBard's willing to give her another session.
So, I polled the players, they're either looking forward to all the fun revenge they'll have, or they don't care enough to have me boot her yet. Since not a single player has voted for a boot, and I can easily ignore her (she's nowhere NEAR as insistent as WW was about anything), I figure she's already dug her own grave so let it play out...
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Er, yeah...
Her very first action in the very first combat of the campaign was an attempt to steal the most valuable item in the chest they'd just opened.
So not even, "I don't heal," but, "I don't actively participate in combat, but instead use it as an excuse to steal from the party loot while the other PCs are otherwise distracted; for example, by fighting for their lives..."
Sounds like it's time for mimics.
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Wow,
I have just realized, that I have only played with VERY small selection of people. Either my friends, or friends of theirs.
Now I didn't always get along perfectly with some of the friends of friends, but even the one I recall with the least possible fondness wasnt a straight out <insert your favorite descriptive adj here>
;P
And I DO like TL's ideas. Sounds like something we might might do. ;)
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Yeah likewise until I got into my current 5e group - which is made up of DMs for all the players and a first-time DM for the DM, so none of us players are jackasses because we ALL know what it's like on the other side of the screen - and the worst players I've had at my tables were never this bad right out of the box.
They might have gotten up to similar antics later in the campaign, but first thing on the first session of the first game? Definitely not.
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I've been spoiled by my current group.
We've been steady at the five of us (me, two dudes I met from a real-life-friend's online group who left his group 'cause he was a terrible GM), my girlfriend, and a player I found here on Paizo) for about a year now. The latest player and his girlfriend joined about three or four months ago from another group I was in, but his girlfriend dipped about a month ago.
We play twice a week, Pathfinder on Thursdays, Godbound on Wednesdays, but during the last year we have played L5R, FATE, Savage Worlds, Star Wars, and a few others.
Everyone (except the newest player) is always on time, or within fifteen minutes, and everyone (except the newest player, who just got a new job that is screwing his schedule) lets us know if they can't make it. We have a good mix of RP and combat, and we are all group players, and recently I actually got the others to start making collaborative stories and intertwining our backstories together, and such! We have a couple power-gamer types, but the worst offenders (myself and one other) purposefully tone down our builds to make sure we don't outshine everyone else. Nobody PVPs, and we know one another's triggers and avoid them. We all even have similar political bends when conversation spins off topic!
I'm so damn spoiled by this group, when our newest player wanted to run a game, he pulled in a new player who just...got to me. I had to split within a single session. We were playing FATE Dresden Files, and this dude immediately starts going PVP within two minutes of meeting his character. I dipped.
I've been playing tabletop games for about 20 years now. I know a toxic player when I see one. The signs start showing right away. And the thing is, 9/10 times, they don't go away when you wait it out. 1/10 times you can have an honest conversation, and the person doesn't know they're doing it, but when it first happened I casually mentioned I dislike PVP, and this prick starts doing it again - nothing lethal, but trying to mind control my character and stuff. So, I split.
Cut to a month later, and the other person who was a member of that Dresden group and my regular group tells me this new guy did the same thing to him when he joined up. And again in another game when they rebooted the story.
Toxic players don't stop. You need to cut them out until they've been booted from enough games to realize they're the problem, and open their mouths and ask why - because if they don't care, they won't change - and if there's no actual penalty for their behavior, they won't care.
Life is preciously short...and the amount of time I can actually spend playing RPGs is tragically shorter. I refuse to spend it not actually enjoying my game because some selfish prick doesn't understand what that it isn't a game about a hero and his four sidekicks - it is about a team.
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...and while TL, Scint, and others all have great ideas, that are ultimately hilarious - you can't punish OOC mindsets with IC punishments. It just doesn't work. These people won't put the two together and understand the relationship. Ultimately you're just wasting the time you could be spending enjoying a game with your friends.
Your best bet is an honest conversation, and to hope this person is the 1/10 that has no idea this is considered munchkin behavior.
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BTW I know it feels cruel to coldly boot someone from a group, but it was that very action happening to me...oh, a decade ago or so...that caused me to change my own behavior as a rules lawyer, and purposefully make efforts to tone down that behavior and adjust myself. Sometimes, what seems cruel at the time ultimately can be for the player's good, and lead to their growth.
It's good you put it to a vote, though. And I'm glad your friends and family are the forgiving type. Hopefully this new woman will respond to a simple conversation if passive-aggressive reactions don't work (which, unfortunately, never do).
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Is that all, man the stories I could tell!Er, yeah...
Her very first action in the very first combat of the campaign was an attempt to steal the most valuable item in the chest they'd just opened.
So not even, "I don't heal," but, "I don't actively participate in combat, but instead use it as an excuse to steal from the party loot while the other PCs are otherwise distracted; for example, by fighting for their lives..."
Well, I mean, a first time player (sun elf, cleric; wielded a bow) I had, in his very first session, very first moment in-game was told by a guard, "Look, you seem nice enough, and we've got nothing against you; but we don't know you and our job is literally to stop people who we don't know have permission from going past this point - please wait here while the priest finishes his meeting, and we'll get back to you."
He declared that he did a backflip (tumble skill, 3.5) and loosed an arrow on the guard. I hedged. I asked him if he was sure, and noted that it was probably a bad idea, both in-character and out-of-character. He affirmed and insisted - rolled a natural 20 for his acrobatics, then another for his bow-attack against the guards (who honestly didn't even realize an attack was coming).
I asked him if he wanted to take back the action - as it was insane - and he insisted he keep it ("I just made two natural 20s! No way I'm taking that back!") and I allowed it. The one guard died instantly. The other tried to attack the guy (shouting for help), but he just tumbled and killed the man.
The elf high priest (the person he'd been sent to bring a message to, and was waiting to see) came out and was shocked and horrified that his two personal guards had been killed. Upon demanding to know what was happening, the player mentioned, "Oh, yeah, these two tried to stop me, so I killed them."
High Priest: "That's abominable! You're a monster!"
NewPlayer PC: "You sure?" *back-flip, looses arrow at high priest*
Other PCs: "WE ARE NOT WITH HIM!" *proceed to fight PC*
NewPlayer PC: "Cool!" *fights PCs, high priest, loses* "What? I lost?" *leaves*
It was the weirdest first session I'd ever seen. We tried talking to him, later, but he generally thought that's how the game was supposed to work - like simple, direct English sentences indicating the contrary didn't actually seem to register, resulting in, "Yeah, that's what I said." or similar from him (which is the opposite of what he'd said).
Since this was at a B&N where NewPlayer and I both worked, I found him periodically altering my notes in my notebook I kept (writing in "+50 to strength for sun elf PCs" or similar). I think he thought it was a funny joke to rifle through my personal stuff and write things in it, but I was never really able to tell if it was a joke, or he seriously thought he could fool me into making his chosen character super-powerful.
We tried one more time to let him in. He'd promised to be better, and I'd offered to let him make a new character, but he wanted to play right away. I can't remember now if it was his old character that was available or an NPC (I think it was his old character who had been killed, but reincarnated as kobold, and kept around as a trap-setting NPC; I'd played him just as crazy/violent as before, but useful and open to minor instruction, so he was mildly popular by this point).
So the guy takes over the character, is informed that they're at a giant death-tree that eats souls forever, and they're in delicate negotiations - they don't want to murder anything, and the tree is demanding that it be given something: either a soul and blood to eat, or some other concession. The tree has promised that the PCs could use this as a passage between planes, but that any show of violence (such as drawing metal weapons or fire) would result in it killing and eating them all.
As he'd originally specced for Diplomacy (ironic, right?), we mentioned he could try to use that and pointed it out on his character sheet. He nods, declares that he stabs the tree and that kobolds suck, and that he commits suicide. "So, then I take over the genie NPC." he says, spoilering what was - until then - a secret known to exactly one player, as he snatches the paper I'd made. I was a little shocked. "Oh, wow, his stats suck, too; yeah, I kill myself, and take over a different NPC. Oh, what about that guy-" *snatches a random player's character sheet*
I kind of looked at him, stunned, I think. I'm not entirely sure exactly how, but at least a couple of the other players hefted him out and away from the table. I don't know if they talked to him or what, but he never played with us again. The others came back after a few minutes, and said, "Okay, look, those last few rounds never happened. None of that stuff. We didn't want to sacrifice anyone, but, how about the kobold? He's insane, we're not able to cure him, and he's a murderer. Wouldn't hurt to let the tree eat an evil critter, and we all get what we want!"
I was dubious and talked to the group about it a bit, but eventually agreed (I was informed that NewPlayer was fiiiiiiiiiine), and we continued playing. He only occasionally altered my notes after that, and eventually he stopped doing even that. I tried talking to him about what had happened, and he waived it off with, "Nah. Game's not my thing."
I guess that's a good response, over-all?
I'm certain my memory is at least a little off - it's been well over a decade, and approaching 1.5 decades, now, so, you know - fragility of human memory, grains of salt, and all that. Still a memorable experience, though.
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...and while TL, Scint, and others all have great ideas, that are ultimately hilarious - you can't punish OOC mindsets with IC punishments. It just doesn't work. These people won't put the two together and understand the relationship. Ultimately you're just wasting the time you could be spending enjoying a game with your friends.
Your best bet is an honest conversation, and to hope this person is the 1/10 that has no idea this is considered munchkin behavior.
I want to clarify that this, right here?
This is absolutely 100% the thing.
You cannot - cannot expect "in character" penalties to result in "out of character" change. That's the reason I put the rider on the bottom of the half-orc sheet, (and heavily hinted at the bottom of the artifact, though that one is much more opaque; I was wondering if I should have been more overt at the time, but the joke worked as-written and I was running a game for folks on Discord, so).
The entire point is to engage with the person.
Sometimes, yeah, it works - some people "take the hint" and in-character penalties result in ooc change. But that's anything other than a universal axiom, and only by actually talking to the person can you guarantee that what you're trying to get across will actually be there.
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Picture this: The party has finished a fight. Several members are injured, including her. The cleric (assuming you have one) decides to channel positive energy to heal everyone. They roll a 5. You say "Okay, everyone heals 5 HP, except for No Girl. Nothing happens for you." "What?!? Why don't I get the 5 HP?" "Because you never heal. You were very specific about that in your email. You even italicized it. So, you don't heal. Ever."...
Email #1: "I always play a half-elf and I never heal."
...
~laughter~ Oh, that is wickedly awesome!
Edit - Or make it that magical healing doesn't work on her due to a curse laid upon her.
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Isn't that mummy rot?Picture this: The party has finished a fight. Several members are injured, including her. The cleric (assuming you have one) decides to channel positive energy to heal everyone. They roll a 5. You say "Okay, everyone heals 5 HP, except for No Girl. Nothing happens for you." "What?!? Why don't I get the 5 HP?" "Because you never heal. You were very specific about that in your email. You even italicized it. So, you don't heal. Ever."...
Email #1: "I always play a half-elf and I never heal."
...
~laughter~ Oh, that is wickedly awesome!
Edit - Or make it that magical healing doesn't work on her due to a curse laid upon her.
That would be a rotten thing to do to get wrapped up like that.
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That would be a rotten thing to do to get wrapped up like that.Isn't that mummy rot?Picture this: The party has finished a fight. Several members are injured, including her. The cleric (assuming you have one) decides to channel positive energy to heal everyone. They roll a 5. You say "Okay, everyone heals 5 HP, except for No Girl. Nothing happens for you." "What?!? Why don't I get the 5 HP?" "Because you never heal. You were very specific about that in your email. You even italicized it. So, you don't heal. Ever."...
Email #1: "I always play a half-elf and I never heal."
...
~laughter~ Oh, that is wickedly awesome!
Edit - Or make it that magical healing doesn't work on her due to a curse laid upon her.
♫ Another mummy in the night ♫
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Hey there John. How goes work?
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♫ Another mummy in the night ♫That would be a rotten thing to do to get wrapped up like that.Isn't that mummy rot?Picture this: The party has finished a fight. Several members are injured, including her. The cleric (assuming you have one) decides to channel positive energy to heal everyone. They roll a 5. You say "Okay, everyone heals 5 HP, except for No Girl. Nothing happens for you." "What?!? Why don't I get the 5 HP?" "Because you never heal. You were very specific about that in your email. You even italicized it. So, you don't heal. Ever."...
Email #1: "I always play a half-elf and I never heal."
...
~laughter~ Oh, that is wickedly awesome!
Edit - Or make it that magical healing doesn't work on her due to a curse laid upon her.
Just don't get involved in a pyramid scheme.
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*gets dressed*
Sigh.
heres hoping shes better than she sounds...Well, our first session with No Girl is today, and we're all hoping she's nicer in person than she's been on emails. In summary:
Email #1: "I always play a half-elf and I never heal."
Email #2: "I'm going to play a class from one of the books you don't allow."
Email #3: "Here's a list of all the background mysteries surrounding my PC that I'd like you to roll into your story."
Email #4: "I don't do backgrounds or writeups." (Combine that with #3 and it's pretty much, "Hey, you're the GM! Do a bunch of legwork for me!")
Email #5: "Here are two vignettes from my character's past that I want you to integrate into your story."
The first vignette is her going dungeon delving with a group of brigands, having it be too tough for them so they fled, and having her solo the rest of the dungeon, take all the loot, then rub it in the brigands' faces how much better she was than all of them.First-level PC, meet Angry Commoners
So yeah, just, "Here's all the stuff I won't do for the rest of the party/players, and here's all the stuff I want you to do for me.
I may just nickname her WW II if she's as bad in person as she is in email.
My response:
1) cool, whatevs, sounds fine2) eh, not-so-cool; the answer is 'no'
3) kinda neat; no promises
4) what? what about the email you just sent? Whatevs, just means your character history is my play thing
5) remember that thing you said about write-ups and background? It's too late. You're secretly a half-orc bar waitress with delusions of anything-other-than-orc (so you insist that you're half-elf) and delusions of two specific events. You've got minimum starting wealth (that is, 0; I'll be nice, though, and round up - after all, you have a profession!), and you're equipment consists of: commoner's clothes and a waitress uniform (that is ugly and unflattering,...
double wow.
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Er, yeah...
Her very first action in the very first combat of the campaign was an attempt to steal the most valuable item in the chest they'd just opened.
So not even, "I don't heal," but, "I don't actively participate in combat, but instead use it as an excuse to steal from the party loot while the other PCs are otherwise distracted; for example, by fighting for their lives..."
but that's a cherished pasttime! It's not stealing, its appropriating! Look, I left you the 3 copper at the bottom of the chest! I didn't take EVERYTHING...
More seriously, that's a major conversation to have beforehand inter-party.
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You know what? Nah. Doesn't even work that way.
That's too harsh.
Instead, it's a free magic item, time!
Item:
==================================
Lovely's Majestic Lifecleanse (minor artifact)
----------------------------------
This item looks like a completely different item. Has the wrong aura, too, 'cause, haha, you tried to steal from the part.Every attempted deception, theft, and stealth instead causes you to be dazed for a round, glow like a torch (as if by the light cantrip and glitterdust spell - the latter only affecting you, not an area, and the former applies directly to your body instead of an object), and use a channel energy effect as if you were a cleric of your level. You may use this channel energy with no downsides (other than the effect itself) up to three times per day.
Each use after the third, however, increases your fatigue. The first time you are fatigued. The second time you are exhausted. The third time you are unconscious.
Any attempt to force the healing effect to happen doesn't work - instead, you're subject to the enervation spell. Any attempt to get rid of this object requires a remove curse (or more powerful spell that can do something similar: you know the usual suite) that has a Caster Level DC 40 to succeed. Each failure causes fatigue on the bearer of the item.
----------------------------------
Destruction: Lovely's Majestic Lifecleanse only falls out of existence if it feels that it's actually done its job. A creature must live up to its high standards of virtue - generosity, kindness, and selflessness - and do so for either fifty years or five levels (whichever comes first). After that time, the item fades away, but is not gone, completely. For another fifty years (or five levels) the former bearer must not fall prey to his or her own base desires: should they fall back into their party-sabotaging ways, they will instantly be re-burdened with Lovely's Majestic Lifecleanse. If you...
so, who should I blame if I get this item, myself or God?
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...and while TL, Scint, and others all have great ideas, that are ultimately hilarious - you can't punish OOC mindsets with IC punishments. It just doesn't work. These people won't put the two together and understand the relationship. Ultimately you're just wasting the time you could be spending enjoying a game with your friends.
Your best bet is an honest conversation, and to hope this person is the 1/10 that has no idea this is considered munchkin behavior.
In my experience, OOC conversations with this type of player also have no effect.
A lot of her antics sound reminiscent of a player I only knew for two abortive campaigns, but most of my group had known for years. We had multiple conversations about frustrating behaviors. Things would improve for a few sessions...and then he'd backslide. He was a decent roleplayer, and so long as you built the party around him, he was useful (we...did not build the party around him, and he complained about this). But then he'd get bugs up his butt about things he absolutely wanted to do, and there was no turning him off that road once on it. We no longer play with that guy.
The best solution is to tell her she's insufferable to play with (in a nice way if that's even possible) and boot her if hints are not taken quickly. But since the group is going to keep her around a while, may as well brainstorm some fun.
Is that all, man the stories I could tell!Er, yeah...
Her very first action in the very first combat of the campaign was an attempt to steal the most valuable item in the chest they'd just opened.
So not even, "I don't heal," but, "I don't actively participate in combat, but instead use it as an excuse to steal from the party loot while the other PCs are otherwise distracted; for example, by fighting for their lives..."
Well, I mean, a first time player (sun elf, cleric; wielded a bow) I had, in his very first session, very first moment in-game was told by a guard, "Look, you seem nice enough, and we've got nothing against you; but we don't know you and our job is literally to stop people who we don't know have permission from going past this point - please wait here while the priest finishes his meeting, and we'll get back to you."
He declared that he did a backflip (tumble skill, 3.5) and loosed an arrow on the guard. I hedged. I asked him if he was sure, and noted that it was probably a bad idea, both in-character and out-of-character. He affirmed and insisted - rolled a natural 20 for his acrobatics, then another for his bow-attack against the guards (who honestly didn't even realize an attack was coming).
I asked him if he wanted to take back the action - as it was insane - and he insisted he keep it ("I just made two natural 20s! No way I'm taking that back!") and I allowed it. The one guard died instantly. The other tried to attack the guy (shouting for help), but he just tumbled and killed the man.
The elf high priest (the person he'd been sent to bring a message to, and was waiting to see) came out and was shocked and horrified that his two personal guards had been killed. Upon demanding to know what was happening, the player mentioned, "Oh, yeah, these two tried to stop me, so I killed them."
High Priest: "That's abominable! You're a monster!"
NewPlayer PC: "You sure?" *back-flip, looses...
its been a long time since I have gone over the things that went...wrong...in games, and perhaps unfairly, I focus only on the guy who made me make my most recent and realistic house rules, but I have had to deal with everything from table flippers to a genuine nazi fetishist showing up.
Yeah, playing with new people can be...challenging...
Sounds like it's time for mimics.Er, yeah...
Her very first action in the very first combat of the campaign was an attempt to steal the most valuable item in the chest they'd just opened.
So not even, "I don't heal," but, "I don't actively participate in combat, but instead use it as an excuse to steal from the party loot while the other PCs are otherwise distracted; for example, by fighting for their lives..."
cruel.
Appropriate, but cruel.
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...You know what? Nah. Doesn't even work that way.
That's too harsh.
Instead, it's a free magic item, time!
Item:
==================================
Lovely's Majestic Lifecleanse (minor artifact)
----------------------------------
This item looks like a completely different item. Has the wrong aura, too, 'cause, haha, you tried to steal from the part.Every attempted deception, theft, and stealth instead causes you to be dazed for a round, glow like a torch (as if by the light cantrip and glitterdust spell - the latter only affecting you, not an area, and the former applies directly to your body instead of an object), and use a channel energy effect as if you were a cleric of your level. You may use this channel energy with no downsides (other than the effect itself) up to three times per day.
Each use after the third, however, increases your fatigue. The first time you are fatigued. The second time you are exhausted. The third time you are unconscious.
Any attempt to force the healing effect to happen doesn't work - instead, you're subject to the enervation spell. Any attempt to get rid of this object requires a remove curse (or more powerful spell that can do something similar: you know the usual suite) that has a Caster Level DC 40 to succeed. Each failure causes fatigue on the bearer of the item.
----------------------------------
Destruction: Lovely's Majestic Lifecleanse only falls out of existence if it feels that it's actually done its job. A creature must live up to its high standards of virtue - generosity, kindness, and selflessness - and do so for either fifty years or five levels (whichever comes first). After that time, the item fades away, but is not gone, completely. For another fifty years (or five levels) the former bearer must not fall prey to his or her own base desires: should they fall back into their party-sabotaging ways, they will instantly be re-burdened with Lovely's
Don’t blame me.
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A lot of her antics sound reminiscent of a player I only knew for two abortive campaigns, but most of my group had known for years. We had multiple conversations about frustrating behaviors. Things would improve for a few sessions...and then he'd backslide. He was a decent roleplayer, and so long as you built the party around him, he was useful (we...did not build the party around him, and he complained about this). But then he'd get bugs up his butt about things he absolutely wanted to do, and there was no turning him off that road once on it. We no longer play with that guy.
Yeah, that's so parallel with how WW played when he was with us it's not even funny.
So I've seen the same thing; problem players don't resolve whether you talk to them in-context or out-of-context, so Das Boot is the only sure way to ensure party harmony. But I'm not going to unilaterally boot a player when not a single other player has asked for it yet.
I'm just really hoping her greed results in the death of her host's PC. (She was invited by one of our regulars, she insisted on playing his PC's loving sister, and she seems like a good (if twisted) roleplayer, so watching her act out, "My greedy actions killed my brother," would be all kinds of fun.)
And yes, yes, I know. Problem female player invited by male player. Insists on a close relationship between their PCs, has him build her PC...
Red flag, red flag, red flag!!!
So, if she's a decent person otherwise (which she definitely seems to be) and there's a lot of subcontext going on that I'm unaware of at the moment, there's another reason a preemptive boot would be bad.
It's been one session. She's irritating, but not at the level of, "I know you asked me not to email you within 48 hours of game time, but here are the major changes I want to make to my PC right before the next session. It's for my ROLEplaying" WW.
EDIT: I should note she's probably around 20 years our junior, so I am probably overestimating any relationship between the two. But the whole, "And I'm his beloved kid sister!" is the most worrisome thing she's done so far to me...
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And yes, yes, I know. Problem female player invited by male player. Insists on a close relationship between their PCs, has him build her PC...
Red flag, red flag, red flag!!!
Thank for the flashbacks, NH!
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So, if she's a decent person otherwise (which she definitely seems to be) and there's a lot of subcontext going on that I'm unaware of at the moment, there's another reason a preemptive boot would be bad.
It's been one session. She's irritating, but not at the level of, "I know you asked me not to email you within 48 hours of game time, but here are the major changes I want to make to my PC right before the next session. It's for my ROLEplaying" WW.
Yep. Hence have talk and boot if learning does not occur. There has to be a chance for the learning.
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...and while TL, Scint, and others all have great ideas, that are ultimately hilarious - you can't punish OOC mindsets with IC punishments. It just doesn't work. These people won't put the two together and understand the relationship. Ultimately you're just wasting the time you could be spending enjoying a game with your friends.
Your best bet is an honest conversation, and to hope this person is the 1/10 that has no idea this is considered munchkin behavior.
In my experience, OOC conversations with this type of player also have no effect.
Which is why I said 9/10 times it doesn't go away. You just have to hope this is that minority chance.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
A lot of her antics sound reminiscent of a player I only knew for two abortive campaigns, but most of my group had known for years. We had multiple conversations about frustrating behaviors. Things would improve for a few sessions...and then he'd backslide. He was a decent roleplayer, and so long as you built the party around him, he was useful (we...did not build the party around him, and he complained about this). But then he'd get bugs up his butt about things he absolutely wanted to do, and there was no turning him off that road once on it. We no longer play with that guy.Yeah, that's so parallel with how WW played when he was with us it's not even funny.
So I've seen the same thing; problem players don't resolve whether you talk to them in-context or out-of-context, so Das Boot is the only sure way to ensure party harmony. But I'm not going to unilaterally boot a player when not a single other player has asked for it yet.
I'm just really hoping her greed results in the death of her host's PC. (She was invited by one of our regulars, she insisted on playing his PC's loving sister, and she seems like a good (if twisted) roleplayer, so watching her act out, "My greedy actions killed my brother," would be all kinds of fun.)
And yes, yes, I know. Problem female player invited by male player. Insists on a close relationship between their PCs, has him build her PC...
Red flag, red flag, red flag!!!So, if she's a decent person otherwise (which she definitely seems to be) and there's a lot of subcontext going on that I'm unaware of at the moment, there's another reason a preemptive boot would be bad.
It's been one session. She's irritating, but not at the level of, "I know you asked me not to email you within 48 hours of game time, but here are the major changes I want to make to my PC right before the next session. It's for my ROLEplaying" WW.
EDIT: I should note she's probably around 20 years our junior, so I am...
Yeah, although with WW, the whole "your actions result in the deaths or Really Bad Stuff Happening to people your PC is supposed to care about" thing kinda backfired, and he STILL feels petulant and misunderstood about it.
When we leveled up to 11 last week, he tried to convince me to let him buy a whole bunch of pages of spell knowledge, and then have the leader of the city just give him some more, in addition to his level up spells. I said no. He asked "why not?" so I said, "I don't want you to have too many spells. First, because you're the fighter, with a couple of ranks of spellcaster, but we need you to be the fighter. Second of all, because when you have too many options, it makes your turn take too long, and that's too hard on the kids. They get bored and check out."
He said, "so you wouldn't let me buy scrolls, either?"
I said, "It would depend on the spell. Read me the list of what you want to buy."
He read me his list. I let him pick two.
I put them into Hero Labs as scrolls but added them in with a Custom Cost of what he said the Pages of Spell Knowledge were supposed to cost, which effectively cleaned him out. Bonus: they're not going to help the party AT ALL.
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(rereads)
Wait, she's Shiro's girlfriend?!?
Or, wants to be?
And she's closer to the Impii in age than she is to the rest of you.
Yeah, this isn't going to go well.
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(rereads)
Wait, she's Shiro's girlfriend?!?
Or, wants to be?And she's closer to the Impii in age than she is to the rest of you.
Yeah, this isn't going to go well.
They laughed at me when I bought this...
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Crapmonkeys.
I was supposed to FINALLY have brunch with one of my best friends from college tomorrow. I haven't seen her since her wedding, over twenty years ago. We've been trying to schedule a time to get together since I moved back.
And she just found out that her daughter has a basketball game scheduled for tomorrow morning. So we're trying to reschedule for the morning of NYE.