Weapon implement intensify vulnerability benefit with different weapon?


Rules Discussion


Thaumaturge's weapon implement intensify vulnerability effect, at level 9:
Your weapon is drawn to your enemy's vital spots, almost of its own accord. You gain a +2 status bonus to attack rolls against the target of your Exploit Vulnerability.

RAW, as long as I'm holding the weapon implement, I could benefit from the +2 status bonus to attack rolls when attacking with a different weapon/unarmed attacks, isn't that right? The weapon implement reaction description uses language that specifies you need to make the reaction attack with the weapon implement, but that's not the case here in the intensify vulnerability effect description.

Would this work RAW?


Trying one last time, in case someone knows.

Thanks in advance for your help!


That works RAW, yeah.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Dubious.

"Weapon Implement > Intensify Vulnerability wrote:
Your weapon is drawn to your enemy's vital spots, almost of its own accord. You gain a +2 status bonus to attack rolls against the target of your Exploit Vulnerability.

The first sentence is clearly talking about the weapon implement being guided towards the enemy, not just any weapon. I find it a bit of a stretch to just ignore that.

---

Besides that, a second weapon (though not an unarmed strike) would prevent you from using implement's empowerment.


If you have a normal weapon in the other hand, you could hotswap the weapon implement out by using your second implement's action to retain Implement's Empowerment, although obviously that only leaves 1 action to actually Strike with the bonus on the other weapon.


Thanks for the answers! My intention is to benefit from the intensify vulnerability bonus with unarmed attacks, so that should not affect implement's empowerment.

I agree RAI is unclear, but hopefully we'll have some clarification in the future.


Ascalaphus wrote:
The first sentence is clearly talking about the weapon implement being guided towards the enemy, not just any weapon. I find it a bit of a stretch to just ignore that.

I would go even farther. Saying that the 'weapon' mentioned in the Weapon Implement rules text is meaning any weapon and not just the Implement fails the Too Good to be True test.

Ascalaphus wrote:
Besides that, a second weapon (though not an unarmed strike) would prevent you from using implement's empowerment.

This though, I don't think is correct - or at least not clear enough to not be ambiguous. If you are holding a shortsword and your whip Weapon Implement, then you could say that you are still only holding a single one-hand weapon (the shortsword) and an Implement. Though I would only allow that if the whip was being used only as an Implement and not as a weapon. Even then it is quite a stretch.

Horizon Hunters

It says "a single one-handed weapon" which means only one one-handed weapon. A weapon implement doesn't stop being a weapon, so if you have a weapon implement and another weapon, that's two weapons, which goes against the requirements.

My thought is they didn't want Thaumaturges to be able to combine Implement's Empowerment with feats like Double Slice or Dual Feint, since they're so easy to get that action through the Dual-Weapon Warrior dedication or Rogue Dedication.

The bonus to damage is equivalent to the average damage of a damage die two steps larger, so a d8 essentially becomes a d12. Being able to dual wield a d12 weapon with any other weapon makes it too powerful.


Right. Which is why I say that it is a stretch to even allow it at all.

And if I were to allow it, it would be only if you are holding the Weapon Implement in a way that prevents its use as a weapon. Holding your dagger implement by the blade and brandishing it as a cross or something like that.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / Weapon implement intensify vulnerability benefit with different weapon? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.