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I can think of a few soggy, limp things worse than soggy, limp vegetables


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You know, if you put some pants on, we wouldn't have to see that.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Wow. Ten years.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Grats.

Only been three-ish for me...


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Captain Yesterday, Brut Squad wrote:

Blah!

Boring night at work!

Not a stupid question or infantile adult to be had.

Meow what am I going to do.

Meow?

On another topic, I like pickles, especially pickled onions and cornuchons, but the main point to pickles is the crunchiness and spiciness thereof. If the pickles are limp, they do not appeal.


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I, find it extremely, annoying, when people don't use commas properly even if they've, actually finished, school. There, is just something, about such, texts that make, me want to tear, my hair out and that's not something, I say often.


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It always makes me read them with the voice of Shatner

Shadow Lodge

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lisamarlene wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
lisamarlene wrote:
Meanwhile, I FINISHED MY DAUGHTER'S GRYFFINDOR QUILT TODAY! It's the first quilt I've done (only knitted blankets and sweaters and things before, no quilting). And I am absurdly proud of it.
normally I would be against this, but the quilt is in mcrib colors, so it's okay.
Remind me, is Harry Potter on your extensive list of things you hate, or is this just a general railing against fabric crafts?

You mean other than Joss Whedon and the horse he rode in on, Alton Brown, Husbands, Things that Make Women Sad, and Hot Weather?

That's a good intro to the list yes.


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Don't mind me, just passing through.


Sissyl wrote:
I, find it extremely, annoying, when people don't use commas properly even if they've, actually finished, school. There, is just something, about such, texts that make, me want to tear, my hair out and that's not something, I say often.

Man, I just placed some killer commas that completely change the meaning in my PbP. My wife - an English teacher - could not actually read the sentence, due to its indirect voice. The only thing she could guess at is that I had weird, extra ious commas. They were not, however, extraneous. Heehee.

>:)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Everything I learned about writing I learned from the Paizo boards.

So if I use too many commas you only have yourselves to blame.


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Orthos wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
lisamarlene wrote:
Meanwhile, I FINISHED MY DAUGHTER'S GRYFFINDOR QUILT TODAY! It's the first quilt I've done (only knitted blankets and sweaters and things before, no quilting). And I am absurdly proud of it.
normally I would be against this, but the quilt is in mcrib colors, so it's okay.
Remind me, is Harry Potter on your extensive list of things you hate, or is this just a general railing against fabric crafts?

I could never hate crafts. They are where scarves come from.

It's Harry potter I hate, you know this.


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lisamarlene wrote:

I'm sorry, I just do not understand the fetishization of the McRib.

My college roommate adored them, but she was Filipina, and food she loved (and encouraged me to try) fell into two categories:

A. "Oh my gods where has this been all my life?!?" (i.e. any pastry containing taro or purple yam, and also her mom's chicken adobo), and

B. The things I tasted and tried to find something polite to say about while she laughed at me and said, "Yeah, I guess you've got to be Filipino to appreciate that."

Because she was the only person I knew who liked McRibs, I put them into category B.

just for that I am getting a taro bubble tea today to go with my mcrib.


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John Napier 698 wrote:
Yeah. Nothing is much worse than soggy, limp vegetables.

I guess you prefer them dry and hard?


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lisamarlene wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
lisamarlene wrote:
Meanwhile, I FINISHED MY DAUGHTER'S GRYFFINDOR QUILT TODAY! It's the first quilt I've done (only knitted blankets and sweaters and things before, no quilting). And I am absurdly proud of it.
normally I would be against this, but the quilt is in mcrib colors, so it's okay.
Remind me, is Harry Potter on your extensive list of things you hate, or is this just a general railing against fabric crafts?

You mean other than Joss Whedon and the horse he rode in on, Alton Brown, Husbands, Things that Make Women Sad, and Hot Weather?

Although it is far from complete, this is the best description of things I hate I have ever read. Thank you.


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Freehold DM wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
lisamarlene wrote:
Meanwhile, I FINISHED MY DAUGHTER'S GRYFFINDOR QUILT TODAY! It's the first quilt I've done (only knitted blankets and sweaters and things before, no quilting). And I am absurdly proud of it.
normally I would be against this, but the quilt is in mcrib colors, so it's okay.
Remind me, is Harry Potter on your extensive list of things you hate, or is this just a general railing against fabric crafts?

I could never hate crafts. They are where scarves come from.

It's Harry potter I hate, you know this.

Honestly Whedon was the only thing I could remember for certain being on the list, so no, I did not know that.

It's been too long and the list is too large for me to remember everything.


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Freehold DM wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
lisamarlene wrote:
Meanwhile, I FINISHED MY DAUGHTER'S GRYFFINDOR QUILT TODAY! It's the first quilt I've done (only knitted blankets and sweaters and things before, no quilting). And I am absurdly proud of it.
normally I would be against this, but the quilt is in mcrib colors, so it's okay.
Remind me, is Harry Potter on your extensive list of things you hate, or is this just a general railing against fabric crafts?

I could never hate crafts. They are where scarves come from.

It's Harry potter I hate, you know this.

But you haven't seen what I have planned for Harry Potter!

Hides script for Harry Potter And The Twelve Samurai.


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Bizarro Freehold wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
lisamarlene wrote:
Meanwhile, I FINISHED MY DAUGHTER'S GRYFFINDOR QUILT TODAY! It's the first quilt I've done (only knitted blankets and sweaters and things before, no quilting). And I am absurdly proud of it.
normally I would be against this, but the quilt is in mcrib colors, so it's okay.
Remind me, is Harry Potter on your extensive list of things you hate, or is this just a general railing against fabric crafts?

I could never hate crafts. They are where scarves come from.

It's Harry potter I hate, you know this.

Honestly Whedon was the only thing I could remember for certain being on the list, so no, I did not know that.

It's been too long and the list is too large for me to remember everything.

there are many things about me that are too long and too large.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Dog really likes the frost this morning.


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Freehold DM wrote:
John Napier 698 wrote:
Yeah. Nothing is much worse than soggy, limp vegetables.
I guess you prefer them dry and hard?

Good pickles should have crunch. Bad ones are the ones that look like they've been overcooked.


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Here's a question for you creature designers out there: In two of my campaigns, I'm dealing with both too many players (6 in one, 7 in the other) and too many "OP classes" (both parties have both an alchemist and a ranger, meaning my bad guys can expect to take 200-300 hit points a round, bypassing DR, SR, and elemental resistances).

So I tried giving the monsters max HP for a while, and that worked until the PCs hit level 13 or so, at which point the extra HP just meant they flailed around uselessly for an extra 2-3 rounds as the alchemist and ranger could only one-shot one creature per turn, instead of the usual two or three.

Thus, I need to increase the CR of every single creature in the game by 2.

Adding the Advanced template gives me 1 easy one.

Is there another good way to add an extra +1 CR to a monster without changing its fundamental nature?

For example, the vemerak wouldn't last a single round against the SS party. Giving it the Advanced template and max HP puts it up to a two-round fight. What's another good, consistent thing I could do to make it even tougher, without making it ridiculous? (I tried adding the Advanced template again, but then at AC 37 and +22 to hit on all of its xx+23 attacks would have me potentially one-rounding PCs while they flailed helplessly trying to hit it. Then again, maybe that's what I need to "spice up" the fights.)

Suggestions?


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I say add advanced ×2 and then bury the bodies!

Spoiler:
Hmmm... AC 37, a bit over 300 hit points... Full attack of +26 (2d6+15), 2× +26 (1d8+15 plus grab), 3×+23 (1d6+7 plus grab). +33 CMB on grapple and constrict should double its claw and tentacle damage for all practical purposes... 22 + 78 + 63... Aroud 163 points of damage per round... I am pretty sure it will all depend if it grabs Hooken or someone else.


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NobodysHome wrote:

Here's a question for you creature designers out there: In two of my campaigns, I'm dealing with both too many players (6 in one, 7 in the other) and too many "OP classes" (both parties have both an alchemist and a ranger, meaning my bad guys can expect to take 200-300 hit points a round, bypassing DR, SR, and elemental resistances).

So I tried giving the monsters max HP for a while, and that worked until the PCs hit level 13 or so, at which point the extra HP just meant they flailed around uselessly for an extra 2-3 rounds as the alchemist and ranger could only one-shot one creature per turn, instead of the usual two or three.

Thus, I need to increase the CR of every single creature in the game by 2.

Adding the Advanced template gives me 1 easy one.

Is there another good way to add an extra +1 CR to a monster without changing its fundamental nature?

For example, the vemerak wouldn't last a single round against the SS party. Giving it the Advanced template and max HP puts it up to a two-round fight. What's another good, consistent thing I could do to make it even tougher, without making it ridiculous? (I tried adding the Advanced template again, but then at AC 37 and +22 to hit on all of its xx+23 attacks would have me potentially one-rounding PCs while they flailed helplessly trying to hit it. Then again, maybe that's what I need to "spice up" the fights.)

Suggestions?

Could you describe the encounter a bit more?

Or follow Djreks line of thinking and give it the Broken Soul and Advanced templates!


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Kjeldorn wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

Here's a question for you creature designers out there: In two of my campaigns, I'm dealing with both too many players (6 in one, 7 in the other) and too many "OP classes" (both parties have both an alchemist and a ranger, meaning my bad guys can expect to take 200-300 hit points a round, bypassing DR, SR, and elemental resistances).

So I tried giving the monsters max HP for a while, and that worked until the PCs hit level 13 or so, at which point the extra HP just meant they flailed around uselessly for an extra 2-3 rounds as the alchemist and ranger could only one-shot one creature per turn, instead of the usual two or three.

Thus, I need to increase the CR of every single creature in the game by 2.

Adding the Advanced template gives me 1 easy one.

Is there another good way to add an extra +1 CR to a monster without changing its fundamental nature?

For example, the vemerak wouldn't last a single round against the SS party. Giving it the Advanced template and max HP puts it up to a two-round fight. What's another good, consistent thing I could do to make it even tougher, without making it ridiculous? (I tried adding the Advanced template again, but then at AC 37 and +22 to hit on all of its xx+23 attacks would have me potentially one-rounding PCs while they flailed helplessly trying to hit it. Then again, maybe that's what I need to "spice up" the fights.)

Suggestions?

Could you describe the encounter a bit more?

Or follow Djreks line of thinking and give it the Broken Soul and Advanced templates!

It's not ONE encounter; it's all of Books 5 and 6 of the AP!

There's a reason I want it to be simple!


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Using two creatures should give you the +2 CR boost you need. Just clone the hit points for the second creature.


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Or add more Hit die.


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John Napier 698 wrote:
Using two creatures should give you the +2 CR boost you need. Just clone the hit points for the second creature.

Since its simplicity you are going for, I second johns suggestion.

Its by far the least amount of extra work, and with two whole books, its a good idea to lighten the workload where you can.


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Give it the mythic simple template, "agile" - generally speaking, this will help most single/few creature combats as it makes them go first (that initial +20 to initiative makes for tasty flat-footed PCs) and let's them do things twice a round (also +2 to AC and a few extra hit points).

Now that I'm on my compy, instead of a phone, I compiled the relevant rules for you:

Mythic Simple Template, Agile wrote:

Agile (MR 1, CR +1)

Creatures with the agile template are quick and deadly, moving faster than their normal counterparts and striking with incredible speed and agility. An agile creature’s quick and rebuild rules are the same.

Rebuild Rules: Init +20 bonus; AC +2 dodge bonus; hp mythic bonus hit points (see Mythic Bonus Hit Points sidebar I copy/pasted them below); Defensive Abilities evasion (as the rogue class feature); Speed +30 feet for all movement types (up to double the creature’s base movement speed); Special Attacks dual initiative.

Mythic Bonus Hit Points
A creature with one of the mythic templates listed gains additional hit points according to its Hit Die type. A creature with d6 Hit Dice gains 6 hit points per mythic rank, a creature with d8 Hit Dice gains 8 hit points per rank, and a creature with d10 or d12 Hit Dice gains 10 hit points per rank.

Dual Initiative (Ex)
The monster gets two turns each round, one on its initiative count and another on its initiative count – 20. For example, if the monster’s initiative is 23, for its first turn it could make a full attack (and take a 5 foot step) at initiative 23, and for its second turn at initiative 3 it could take a move action and cast a spell. This allows the monster to perform two actions per round that normally take an entire round, such as using a summon monster spell. For the purposes of spells and effects that have a duration of a round or longer or trigger at the beginning of the creature’s round or the start of its turn such as saving throws against ongoing effects or taking bleed damage), only the monster’s first turn each round counts toward such durations.

Format: +21/+1; Location: Initiative.

Even though the creature gains "MR 1" it lacks the mythic subtype, so you don't have to worry about any other mythic rules at all (as clarified at the top of the simple template thing). This vastly manages the "party number/action economy disparity" thing that you have going on.

Alternatively/additionally: the simple class template for fighter (or ranger or barbarian or something with very consistent feats/powers-selection - representing general training for a specified civilization), and/or the giant simple template (easier to land blows on than the advanced x2, but hits harder and easier).

Finally: just given 'em potions (well, okay, "philters") of true strike (or something) allowing them to guarantee a hit or so and thus serving the purpose of "ablative meat shield and hp whittling device" that CR encounters are supposed to represent.

Also, I find your evaluation of OP alchemists very... cuuuuuuuuuute. Yes, cute. Prooooobably a good word choice that won't get me into too much trouble with NH. Iiiiii hope.(You have clearly never seen me abuse a spellcaster. And Betty - who you callously disregarded - doesn't count! ... because I was being restrained... )

>.>

EDIT: links and a compilation of rules


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Also: adding two levels of warrior gives you a +2 atk, +3 fortitude, +1 to reflex and will, and 4+INT mod skill points and that's all.

EDIT (now that I've logged back in): to fix an error; also to note that this is actually somewhat comparable to having heroism on your bad dudes, but doesn't get dispelled.

Shadow Lodge

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Yeah look at the lower mythic templates for ideas. Just because a few enemies have tiers does not mean the players have to.

And yeah, if you think the overwhelming damage the party is dealing is game breaking, just be glad you don't have a god-wizard conjurer utterly incapacitating the entire enemy party in 1.5 rounds then sodding off to read a book while the damage dealers "wash up". It could always be worse. ^^


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Freehold DM wrote:
John Napier 698 wrote:
Yeah. Nothing is much worse than soggy, limp vegetables.
I guess you prefer them dry and hard?

Yes.

I do like sweet pickles, but yes, I generally like my veggies hard and dry. Unless they're stir fried. Mmm, stir fry...

Freehold DM wrote:
lisamarlene wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
lisamarlene wrote:
Meanwhile, I FINISHED MY DAUGHTER'S GRYFFINDOR QUILT TODAY! It's the first quilt I've done (only knitted blankets and sweaters and things before, no quilting). And I am absurdly proud of it.
normally I would be against this, but the quilt is in mcrib colors, so it's okay.
Remind me, is Harry Potter on your extensive list of things you hate, or is this just a general railing against fabric crafts?

You mean other than Joss Whedon and the horse he rode in on, Alton Brown, Husbands, Things that Make Women Sad, and Hot Weather?

Although it is far from complete, this is the best description of things I hate I have ever read. Thank you.

Also math. How could you forget math, lisamarlene?


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Hey, Freehold. I heard that Joss Whedon is doing a Harry Potter reboot. :D :D :D


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Tacticslion wrote:

Also: adding two levels of warrior gives you a +2 atk, +3 fortitude, +1 to reflex and will, and 4+INT mod skill points and that's all.

EDIT (now that I've logged back in): to fix an error; also to note that this is actually somewhat comparable to having heroism on your bad dudes, but doesn't get dispelled.

Interesting.


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G~#!#%mit.

State just walked in. Unannounced major audit.

F~!+.

Shadow Lodge

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Ooohf. Good luck.


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Orthos wrote:

Yeah look at the lower mythic templates for ideas. Just because a few enemies have tiers does not mean the players have to.

And yeah, if you think the overwhelming damage the party is dealing is game breaking, just be glad you don't have a god-wizard conjurer utterly incapacitating the entire enemy party in 1.5 rounds then sodding off to read a book while the damage dealers "wash up". It could always be worse. ^^

Since we're playing around with rules (which I don't think are against FaWtL rules... at the moment), can someone explain the notion of a "god-wizard".

I've never played a game in which the wizard (either PC or bad guy) was anything less than one of the most ineffectual players on the field. Everyone's got Protection from xx, Freedom of Movement, and Fly going, all the time. So who are these wizards of whom you speak, and, more importantly, what do they cast that even remotely slows down a party?

(I still remember Karzoug. He got off his Time Stop and cast all the recommended buffs on himself. One Bard's Escape later he was flanked by a Hasted, Smiting paladin and barbarian and took 600 hit points before his next action. Unimpressive. But the players thought it was hilarious.)


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Freehold DM wrote:

G@+%$+mit.

State just walked in. Unannounced major audit.

F+~#.

o.o

*pets Freehold*

Shadow Lodge

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NobodysHome wrote:
Orthos wrote:

Yeah look at the lower mythic templates for ideas. Just because a few enemies have tiers does not mean the players have to.

And yeah, if you think the overwhelming damage the party is dealing is game breaking, just be glad you don't have a god-wizard conjurer utterly incapacitating the entire enemy party in 1.5 rounds then sodding off to read a book while the damage dealers "wash up". It could always be worse. ^^

Since we're playing around with rules (which I don't think are against FaWtL rules... at the moment), can someone explain the notion of a "god-wizard".

I've never played a game in which the wizard (either PC or bad guy) was anything less than one of the most ineffectual players on the field. Everyone's got Protection from xx, Freedom of Movement, and Fly going, all the time. So who are these wizards of whom you speak, and, more importantly, what do they cast that even remotely slows down a party?

(I still remember Karzoug. He got off his Time Stop and cast all the recommended buffs on himself. One Bard's Escape later he was flanked by a Hasted, Smiting paladin and barbarian and took 600 hit points before his next action. Unimpressive. But the players thought it was hilarious.)

The god-wizard is a PC, not an enemy. This explains it in detail.

Your players may have all those buffs, but how often do the opponents?


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It's that time of year when we bestow honorary Phlegmish citizenship on Limey. What fun!


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Orthos wrote:

Yeah look at the lower mythic templates for ideas. Just because a few enemies have tiers does not mean the players have to.

And yeah, if you think the overwhelming damage the party is dealing is game breaking, just be glad you don't have a god-wizard conjurer utterly incapacitating the entire enemy party in 1.5 rounds then sodding off to read a book while the damage dealers "wash up". It could always be worse. ^^

NobodysHome wrote:

Since we're playing around with rules (which I don't think are against FaWtL rules... at the moment), can someone explain the notion of a "god-wizard".

I've never played a game in which the wizard (either PC or bad guy) was anything less than one of the most ineffectual players on the field. Everyone's got Protection from xx, Freedom of Movement, and Fly going, all the time. So who are these wizards of whom you speak, and, more importantly, what do they cast that even remotely slows down a party?

(I still remember Karzoug. He got off his Time Stop and cast all the recommended buffs on himself. One Bard's Escape later he was flanked by a Hasted, Smiting paladin and barbarian and took 600 hit points before his next action. Unimpressive. But the players thought it was hilarious.)

1) infinite loops

2) action economy alteration

3) "anything you can do I can do better"

4) items; that's it

5) "fighters can take leadership, too..." >.>

Those are the most simplistic non-complete discussions about how magic users can and often are the most powerful creatures on the field.

Here is one hard numbers example of how a demonstrably less-'powerful' (i.e. lower stats) mage at 1st level out-fights a higher-stats fighter (and a follow up here). Here (in that same thread) is a more flippant response (and a rather genius follow up)

This is an old (but still relevant) guide to how to make certain battlefield control styles happen.

Think of your (generally correct) opinion of a bard.

Now imagine a dude that can have all his own minions, of any kind he wants, and do more or less the same thing, at any time (because he can have bards, too). Plus all the gear. And make all of this happen without being there... unless he wants to, in which case, he's "there" but still immortal (because he has infinite lives elsewhere that you can't find with divination, no matter how hard you try).

You remember your lich in the SS party? How (relatively) easy it was for him to make M4D D04GH with his CRAFTING SKILLZ? You have a goal with him, so I'm letting you more or less do your thing, and it's a good thing with an appropriate and measured thought applied; ... buuuuuuut, if I were to apply myself, I could (probably) have gotten it done faster, more easily, and with less effort and time (relatively speaking - I mean, it'd take me longer, but it'd take him less time).

An important thing to remember here is that this does not mean you're playing him wrong - it means that there are differing levels of "optimization" at play, and (in addition) those levels generate different outcomes. Also, both outcomes are in-character, even presupposing individuals who are vastly more intelligent than either of us, because we have a certain amount of distance and meta-knowledge that isn't able to be communicated to the individuals living through the whole thing.

There's also a whole slew of psychological factors that differ between theory and practice.

First, at an actual table, you might not have time, will, effort, comprehension, or knowledge to optimize (as an aside: when GMing for multiple games, unless you're super human, you don't; this is just a matter of real life time limits; something's gotta give, and it's usually spending lots of time optimizing). This isn't a bad thing, but it's one thing that might cause wizards to seem less effective than they "really" could be - that is, they're not living up to their full potential. This may be intentional, or it may be accidental.

Second, either a conscious/intentional or a subconscious (unintentional) skewing away from a caster's strengths or outright undermining them. This often happens with GMs and adventure-builders who actively (if accidentally) cater to martials' strengths, and not casters'. The thing is, this can (hypothetically) be overcome by a caster, too, but it (usually) takes more levels for this to happen. This isn't always (directly) mechanical, either - having people favor martial or skilled things and hate/distrust casting also can have this effect. This isn't always the GM's doing, either - sometimes it's the caster, and sometimes it's the fellow players. The most common version of this (which actually limits both casters and others, but nonetheless) is "Core only" - unfortunately, Core is more badly skewed toward caster superiority than later books are, so...

Third, there are a lot of "trap" options for casters, too. Things that seem awesome, that just don't work out as well in practice. There are more traps for martial/skilled characters, but people familiar with a system (or running unintentionally skewed-toward-their-strengths games) might never notice that they are traps.

Paizo, for the record, generally presupposes that some combination of all of these things happen - that casters usually don't optimize their tricks, and that adventures or favors skew/cater to the favor martials/skilled characters, to balance things out. This... kind of works. Sometimes.

Not seeing it crop up at your tables isn't wrong, though. It's statistically anomalous, given the math, but isn't wrong: it just means your collective play styles skew away from caster superiority. And that's a good thing, if it means you have good games. :)

EDIT: dang it! Ninja'd by Orthos!

ALSO: nope, not technically against the rules. Yet. :D


Oh, also, this is relevant - it's not always about direct combat. :)


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I'll have to look it all over when I'm deadline-free, but typically the enemy is immune to mind-affecting, large enough to avoid anything short of Force Wall or Wall of Stone, and has a CMD way higher than our casters hit. The Leadership feat is verboten, there is no crafting to speak of (AP timeframes), and anyone who starts a full-round cast (read: summoning something) is guaranteed to get hit and disrupted.

I'll read the guide and see whether I can get insight, but skimming it I was thinking, "Yeah, immune to that. Unaffected by that. They don't have time to do this or that."

It's not so much that we skew towards martials; we've just historically found that battlefield control spells against AP bad guys aren't effective: They're always CL+1 hit dice so you can throw out anything that affects your hit dice or less, they're frequently immune to mind control, and both players and GMs are willing to eat a lot of AoOs to take out anyone performing a full-round cast, so those are virtually always disrupted.

But today, deadlines. I'll take a look-see tonight.

Shadow Lodge

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That's usually where the "flying, invisible, and mirror imaged" thing comes in.


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Ankou's shadow slayer archtype is nice if you want mirror image as a martial but it has a cost of giving up studied target. not sure if it is from an allowed source though.


Also displacement (and usually blur - sure it doesn't do anything, but I appreciate the aesthetic of being several vague blurs all over to that way... if you can see the invisible at all), negate aroma, forced quiet, legitate, and... oh, right, we're going for basics. Sorry, got carried away...

To be clear, most of these are jokes; overkill for escalation purposes.

EDIT: ah, coding on a phone - my bane. Also, this is adding to Orthos' thing.


doctor_wu wrote:
Ankou's shadow slayer archtype is nice if you want mirror image as a martial but it has a cost of giving up studied target. not sure if it is from an allowed source though.

Ugh! Why?! Boo!

(Should get both!)


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Isn't part of the god/batman wizard thing using divination spells to preemptively scope out the opposition? So even though many high-level threats are immune to this and that, the wizard has just the right spell prepared to deal with them?

Personally I'm not a fan of all the rock-paper-scissors that high level casters revolve around. To my mind spells should be powerful, but if you as a game dev find yourself inventing things like SR, immunity-granting spells, and monsters with non-thematic immunities in order to 'balance' high level casters, you should be toning down those spells instead.

I realize that PF inherited all of those things from its D&D family tree. So not blaming anyone, just commenting on my approach to spells.


Tacticslion wrote:

Also: adding two levels of warrior gives you a +2 atk, +3 fortitude, and 4+INT mod skill points and that's all.

EDIT (now that I've logged back in): to fix an error; also to note that this is actually somewhat comparable to having heroism on your bad dudes, but doesn't get dispelled.

You know when you fix a mistake with another (worse) mistake? Yeah. The above is what I should have written. Without the bonus to reflex and will it's less comparable to herosim, but it's still like a much more limited version of the same.


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Tequila Sunrise wrote:

Isn't part of the god/batman wizard thing using divination spells to preemptively scope out the opposition? So even though many high-level threats are immune to this and that, the wizard has just the right spell prepared to deal with them?

Personally I'm not a fan of all the rock-paper-scissors that high level casters revolve around. To my mind spells should be powerful, but if you as a game dev find yourself inventing things like SR, immunity-granting spells, and monsters with non-thematic immunities in order to 'balance' high level casters, you should be toning down those spells instead.

I realize that PF inherited all of those things from its D&D family tree. So not blaming anyone, just commenting on my approach to spells.

I agree. Funny thing is - they don't really need it. If you just put the system through its paces and allowed "personal" spells to apply to martials, and remove most of the fiddly bits, and streamline/focus casting more (while applying more intuitive limits) much of the problem goes away or at least self-mitigates. OH KIND OF LIKE PSIONICS


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