Deep 6 FaWtL


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:

I have a Lundberg boss, every time I work with him he comes up to me, puts his hands together and says "Captain Yesterday, yeeah, I'm gonna need to you to straighten these areas, can you do that for me"

The same areas, for three+ years now, every single shift I work with him. which, thankfully, isn't that often.

that would be great....

The best part is, those areas were assigned to me as my primary straightening areas (when I'm not doing my brute squad s%##) when I was hired, they haven't deviated. It's honestly getting harder for me not to laugh. :-D


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Driving politics:

What I find interesting is that I consider myself "Lawful" in the same way a paladin is "Lawful": I examine the law, determine its intent, and obey the spirit of the law. The letter is irrelevant to me.

A 4-way stop sign is designed to protect pedestrians, bicyclists, and other non-motorized vehicles, and to determine the order of right-of-way for motorized vehicles. Its purpose is NOT to force every car to come to a full and complete stop. That is written into the law to provide officers with a clear-cut way to issue citations when violators impinge on on of the other purposes. So in an intersection with clear visibility and no other traffic, I roll through Stop signs at 5-10 mph, and still consider myself "Lawful".

I like to ask, "Suppose the law required you to come to a full and complete stop for 10 seconds. Would you do it?"
If so, you are far more concerned with the letter of the law than the purpose, and I can at least respect that. (I'm not about to argue with an officer if I roll through a stop sign and he/she tickets me. I'll take it up with the judge, but not the officer.)

I have a similar attitude about statewide or national speed limits. The 55 mph speed limit was introduced to save fuel during the Arab oil embargo in the 1970's. It proved so profitable law enforcement agencies did not want to see it eliminated. In fact, when they discussed raising the limit from 55 to 65, law enforcement agencies predicted dire consequences to the tune of thousands of additional highway deaths.

Such consequences did not occur.

So if someone wants to drive their Ferrari at 150 in the left lane, never leaving that lane, I have no issue with it; the car is designed to handle that kind of speed. As long as they don't come near any other cars, I call, "No harm, no foul!" (If they ever leave the left lane, they should be jailed, on the other hand.) On the other hand, I wince when I see anyone in a Prius doing over 80. Those bitty tires really aren't designed for speed.

The three areas I *do* have issues are pertinent to the discussion so far:
(1) Speeding in areas with low speed limits for safety. I really appreciate gran rey de los mono's position here. We've lost 2 cats to cars that just couldn't bother to do 25 on our ONE-LANE street! I've seen SUVs trying to make illegal left turns RIGHT INTO CROSSING GUARDS. If the speed limit is under 25, there's a darned good reason for it. Obey it. Period.

(2) Tailgating. There's never an excuse for it. Ever.

(3) Imposing "your law" on others. As I said, I have no problem whatsoever with gran doing 20 in a 20 zone. But if gran chose to do 65 in the left lane of a 4-lane highway, and say, "Well, it's the legal speed limit, so I'm perfectly entitled to drive at this speed in the left lane," I would take issue.

My rules are pretty simple:
- Never cause the vehicle with the right of way to have to make adjustments, whether speeding up, slowing down, or changing lanes. If you make the vehicle with the right of way change its behavior, you messed up.
- Never outdrive your visibility or control. This is the one that ALWAYS gets ignored, and leads to those wonderful 100+ car pile-ups you hear about in California
- If you're in a multi-lane road and you're not in the far right lane, then don't be the slowest car in your lane. Just because the letter of the law is on your side doesn't give you the right to intentionally frustrate other drivers, and such behavior may be physically dangerous to you.

No accidents in 30+ years, so they seem to work OK...

Shadow Lodge

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I'll just say that I disagree with you on stop signs (Stop means Stop) and am pretty cool with everything else; I don't like that people on the highways can get away with speeding, but I have better things to do with my time than to force them to obey by driving slowly in their lane. There's a reason I don't ever drive in the far-left lanes on highways unless I absolutely have to take a left-lane exit ramp. (Granted, I avoid highways completely if at all possible, I'm much much much less comfortable there than driving on surface streets.)

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

This is why I believe everyone is Neutral.


Twice now I have been ticketed in a 25mph zone. NO there is no good reason for them, at least not these two. Both were smack in the middle of 45 or 55 mph zones with no real change in the types of buildings or traffic flow. ONE of them was probably a hold over from 30 years ago when the area was residential instead of commercial, but there is NO reason for the other zone except perhaps ticket greedy cops.

And then there are nosy old people who have nothing better to do but complain. One speed zone I often drove through was finally updated by who ever does that and raised 10 mph... only to have in lowered back down a few weeks later due to the stream of complaints from old people who think any speed above 30 is recklessly fast.


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I do however think you should carefully observe school zones. Too many times I see children hit or nearly so by drivers in too big a hurry to get to a job they were carelessly late for. I would station a policeman in any such area till the crazy people take a different route.

My boyfriend got in trouble for running a stop at 5-10 mph... we call those California Stops out here in Michigan. And I agree that the policeman should use a little discretion in the off hours when no other traffic is on the road. If no one is in danger the ticket is just greedy.


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I just ordered the Mass Effect Trilogy for the PC. I have no idea when I will GET to it, but it is ordered and will be ready for that time.


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I've had really good interactions with the California Highway Patrol. Their officers tend to be well-trained, polite, and pretty understanding. My last interaction was pretty typical.

[NH]: "Oh, hi, officer! Sorry about that! I saw you on the side of the road, looked at my speedometer, saw I was doing 88, and told the kids, 'Watch, kids! Dad's about to get a ticket!"
[CHP]: Officer smirks a bit. "Well, at least you were honest with me. I only clocked you at 85, but you were going pretty fast there."
[NH]: "Yeah, well, it's a clear sunny day, dry highway, and visibility is fantastic. So as I was going down this mountain I thought it was kind of silly to just keep hitting the brakes. So I didn't. And... Celica. So it kind of got away from me. I'm sorry. I'll pay more attention."
[CHP]: "Well, yeah. We're supposed to ticket anyone doing over 80. But your honesty is really refreshing, and I know the feeling on this mountain. Do me a favor, pay attention, and keep it under 80 and I'll let you off with a warning this time."
[NH]: "Will do, officer! Thanks a lot!"
[CHP]: "And take this to heart, kids! Honesty pays!"

Honestly, the WORST part of that story was that NobodysWife was in Fremont at a game, and I texted her with, "Being pulled over by the CHP. Going to jail. Will need bail."
AND THEN MY PHONE SERVICE WENT OUT!!!!

So she was in a wee bit of utter panic for 10 minutes until I was back in cell phone coverage and could tell her it had been a joke...

EDIT: And a bit of advice: *NEVER* get pulled over by the National Park Service or the LAPD. It's... unpleasant.


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Mass Effect is very fun. Happy shooting!


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I once got out of a ticket by pure luck. The cop started to come after me so I decided to kill two birds with one stone and get gas while getting my ticket. So I darted into a service station and started the pump while I waited for the officer. Turns out his cousin owns the station so he let me off with a warning.


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Aranna wrote:

Mass Effect is very fun. Happy shooting!

Thanks. I intend to. However, I am too busy killing off Hybrid Mutant Alien Scum (XCOM 2) or playing errand boy for the Minutemen (Fallout 4).


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~gets a text on my Phone~ Who is texting me? ~looks at it and gets annoyed~ WHAT?!? Another settlement needs my help? Am I the only Minuteman around? ~sighs~ Fine!


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Aranna wrote:
I once got out of a ticket by pure luck. The cop started to come after me so I decided to kill two birds with one stone and get gas while getting my ticket. So I darted into a service station and started the pump while I waited for the officer. Turns out his cousin owns the station so he let me off with a warning.

Since we're well into politics anyway, so Freehold is going to have to slash-and-burn this entire portion of the thread, I'll just say that the older you get, the less the cops ticket you.

I've been pulled over what... maybe 6, 7 times in my driving lifetime (32 years). The first few were all when I was in my late teens and early 20's, and the *only* time I was ever let off was almost worthy of a NobodysHome story time: If you're used to driving in the Sierra Nevadas in the summertime, you're used to getting stuck behind giant American cars being driven by octogenarians at 15 mph below the posted speed limit. My old Volvo didn't have the guts to pass, and I won't tailgate, so I'd spend 45-60 minutes stuck behind such vehicles, fuming the entire time.
So one day I saw one coming from well over a mile away. There was a stop sign in front of me. If I came to a full and complete stop, or even a California stop, I'd be trapped. But if I just blew through the stop sign (visibility was great) I'd stay ahead of the vehicle without causing them any concern whatsoever (except, "Why did that man just run that stop sign?") So I did. And it was a cop. And he pulled me over. And I explained, "I thought you were an old lady." While my 70-year-old mother fumed in the passenger seat. The officer had a hard time not laughing, and knew I was going to get mine the moment he let us go. So he let us go.

Once I turned 30, the *only* time I've ever gotten a ticket was a red light violation with which I still vehemently disagree (my entire vehicle was in the intersection during the yellow light, but I was going only 15 mph due to wet pavement, so the light turned red while I was in the intersection and I got a ticket). Otherwise, officers just have a chat with me and send me on my way.

EDIT: Of particular note on that ticket was that I went to traffic school for it in a different city 5 miles away (ticket in Emeryville, traffic school in Albany), and SIXTEEN of the 20 students had gotten that exact same ticket (running THAT red light in Emeryville). I suspect if I'd had more time and gumption, a lawsuit would have been in order...


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Orthos wrote:
I'll just say that I disagree with you on stop signs (Stop means Stop) and am pretty cool with everything else; I don't like that people on the highways can get away with speeding, but I have better things to do with my time than to force them to obey by driving slowly in their lane. There's a reason I don't ever drive in the far-left lanes on highways unless I absolutely have to take a left-lane exit ramp. (Granted, I avoid highways completely if at all possible, I'm much much much less comfortable there than driving on surface streets.)

This.

Everyone thinks the rules apply to everyone but themselves. They're willing to pitch a fit when someone else breaks the rules and it inconveniences them, but they're ALL stupid rules when it's time for them to follow them.

The Exchange

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Sharoth wrote:
~gets a text on my Phone~ Who is texting me? ~looks at it and gets annoyed~ WHAT?!? Another settlement needs my help? Am I the only Minuteman around? ~sighs~ Fine!

Get to it.


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Total change of topic: What NobodysHome's job is like:

Co-worker: btw i may need your help with what other image changes need to be made if we proceed with the thin client.
Co-worker: you seem to know thin vs. thick quite well.
NobodysHome: LOL. That's because I DIDN'T for the first 6 months of my employment.
NobodysHome: And ended up having to rewrite an entire course because I screwed up.
NobodysHome: You learn fast.
NobodysHome: And since then, I've been responsible for virtually every image ever produced for Giant Megacorporation.
NobodysHome: 11 years of creating classroom images teaches you things.
NobodysHome: Horrible, horrible things...


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Nobody is bold


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captain yesterday wrote:
Nobody is bold

Oh, she's a junior member of the department, and I'm having a blast explaining things to her.

This was my description of her set-up:
=====
Yeah, think of the three applications as, “Moe, Larry, and Snow White”.

The Foo Server and Bar Server are Moe and Larry. They can’t function without each other, and have to be able to hear each other, poke each other in the eyes, tear out each other’s hair, and so forth. If you haven’t started one or the other of them, nothing works. The Foo server is in D:\Foo. The Bar Server is in D:\Bar.

The thick client is Snow White. She wanders obliviously through the world, all on her own, and needs no communication with anyone. That’s because engineers included small fuzzy animals (DLL files) to help her get through life without anyone else’s help. Snow White lives in D:\Neverland.


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Rattles around...

I think...

I think... I just broke FaWtL!

Flees before the avenging angel of Freeholdom on his fiery bike of Bedazzling...


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We certainly didn't do it!

*2d4 ⇒ (4, 1) = 5 Slaadlings try to hide the fact they were chewing on random wires.


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Wow. I wonder where everyone went.


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Spoiler:
~bangs on my prison walls in another plane far away from the FaWtL universe~ Help me.


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I am still awake, but at work.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I'm enjoying me time, finally recovered from my spring fever head cold, stupid dog thinks we should hunt raccoons, but that's not happening.

Shadow Lodge

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Aranna wrote:
My boyfriend got in trouble for running a stop at 5-10 mph... we call those California Stops out here in Michigan.

Yeah, that's what we called them in Arizona.

Growing up in Texas, my dad always called them Oozes. Or more accurately, he would say "It's a STOP sign, not an OOZE sign!" and when we asked for an explanation he'd say "They're not actually stopping, they're just slowing down and oozing through the stop line."


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I stop at stop signs, but you do look at them differently when you've spent 10 years driving a one and a half ton truck, often filled with gravel or rocks and pulling a trailer and skidder behind you.


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Thing about traffic rules, it really isn't about intent. It is a system built for PREDICTABILITY. Half the people driving cars are below average intelligence. The system needs to be simple enough and predictable enough that they can make correct assumptions about what others around them will do. Yes, there is an idea behind the rules we have - but that the rules are followed IS priority one. Add in rule 0 - that everyone is responsible at all times for preventing accidents - and it is probably as good as we can make it.


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Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

Getting real fed up with co-worker's apparent moisture and/or cold allergy. The extra money on my wage is fine by me, but the guy has already called in sick more times this year than most people do in a decade, and it's always one day at a time, so no chance for anyone to make preparation for him not being there the next night. GRRR


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Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

Also, if I have to work an extra two hours, it'd be nice to know it before actually starting the workday once or twice at least.


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Kajehase wrote:
Getting real fed up with co-worker's apparent moisture and/or cold allergy. The extra money on my wage is fine by me, but the guy has already called in sick more times this year than most people do in a decade, and it's always one day at a time, so no chance for anyone to make preparation for him not being there the next night. GRRR

I saw GRRR first and expected some reference to Martin...


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Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

Mostly been referencing the original George Martin the past 24 hours. :(


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GRR...?!?

Spoiler:
Yes. I know who GRR is.


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Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

GRRR!


Cars are bad, m'kay.


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Aranna wrote:

I do however think you should carefully observe school zones. Too many times I see children hit or nearly so by drivers in too big a hurry to get to a job they were carelessly late for. I would station a policeman in any such area till the crazy people take a different route.

My boyfriend got in trouble for running a stop at 5-10 mph... we call those California Stops out here in Michigan. And I agree that the policeman should use a little discretion in the off hours when no other traffic is on the road. If no one is in danger the ticket is just greedy.

We do? Cause I gotta be honest....I've never in my life heard anyone refer to that as a California stop. Usually heard it as a Michigan stop. Cause this winter aside, it's mostly a bad habit picked up during winters when coming to a full stop means getting hopelessly stuck on the ice. Especially on back roads that rarely see a plow.

And if there is anything I've learned from living where I do, it's don't speed inside the city limits. On the highway, okay, as long as you're not being reckless about it, but never inside the city limits. The cops are just waiting to pounce on speeders. Eh, it's a college town so that's pretty understandable. We do have more than our fair share of inexperienced drivers.


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Cops DO love college towns. My ONLY 5 mph over speeding ticket was in a college town. I think they view it as free revenue.

Well the people I associate with call it a California Stop... I guess I just assumed that was state wide. Weird how there can be varied names for it in even a small area.


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We have, as the commuters call it, "the Madison 10" essentially, you're not getting a ticket if you're going 10 over the speed limit or lower, anything above that and you might get pulled over, if they feel like it (most do not) or it's Friday or Saturday night.

I do not recommend trying this in the various small towns surrounding Madison, those cops are a#*!~%~s.


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Just did a quick web search. Looks like the slang names for the rolling stop are California Stop, Various variations of California stop, Chicago Stop, Jakarta Stop, and Michigan Stop. The most popular seems to be California Stop. Michigan Stop must be fairly popular in Michigan however. I like that most of those are American. :) HA world! Look what bad drivers we are!


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The general says here they're referred to as country stops.

I honestly never considered not stopping at stop signs, I wonder if not getting my driver's license until my early twenties had something to do with that. :-)


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Aranna wrote:
Just did a quick web search. Looks like the slang names for the rolling stop are California Stop, Various variations of California stop, Chicago Stop, Jakarta Stop, and Michigan Stop. The most popular seems to be California Stop. Michigan Stop must be fairly popular in Michigan however. I like that most of those are American. :) HA world! Look what bad drivers we are!

My favorite-ever moment was when I was researching a particular bicycle law (turns out that in California you are required to walk your bike in crosswalks unless the crosswalk is along a specifically-designated bike trail, in which case you're allowed to ride in them).

I came upon a British publication on driving in the U.S. To paraphrase, "Be aware that drivers in California have no concept of lane precedence, so passing on the right is just as common as passing on the left, and speed in any lane is no indication of speed in any other lane."

I could not have described my #2 issue with California drivers better than that.

(#1 is a complete inability to NOT tailgate/drive beyond their visibility/stopping distance. Even a simple rain shower around here results in half a dozen collisions because people can't figure out that you have to adjust your driving to the conditions, not vice versa.)

(And just for the record, California stops have hard and clear "rules" here, to the point that you get honked at if you violate them. Cars from more than one direction at an intersection: Everyone stops. Cars from a single direction: No one stops. It works...)


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captain yesterday wrote:

The general says here they're referred to as country stops.

I honestly never considered not stopping at stop signs, I wonder if not getting my driver's license until my early twenties had something to do with that. :-)

I honestly think it's more where you grew up. In the traffic-weary Bay Area, coming to a full and complete stop at every Stop sign is very likely to get you rear-ended because people don't expect it, and it surprises them.

It's exactly as Sissyl said: Drivers need predictability. Around here, "Predictable" is the California stop. In other areas, "predictable" is stopping. Which is why it's SOOOOO important to be on your toes when you travel...

Silver Crusade

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Aranna wrote:

Just did a quick web search. Looks like the slang names for the rolling stop are California Stop, Various variations of California stop, Chicago Stop, Jakarta Stop, and Michigan Stop. The most popular seems to be California Stop. Michigan Stop must be fairly popular in Michigan however. I like that most of those are American. :) HA world! Look what bad drivers we are!

Ha! The fact that there is a name for it is a reflection that Americans care about stop signs at all. Outside of North America and Northern Europe, road signs are merely helpful suggestions.

Traveling anywhere gives you a whole new appreciation for the boring predictability of American drivers.

Silver Crusade

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I'll never forget driving in Italy, where I came to a complete stop at a stop sign because there were parked cars that made it hard to see if anyone was coming. The car behind me, without stopping, passed me on the left and cut a right turn in front of me.


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Again - you could just - you know - not break the law.

Or heaven forbid you're late because you didn't leave as early as you should have in the first place...

Shadow Lodge

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I admit I'm weird compared to the majority of people I've met since I tend to err on the side of caution, i.e. the side of stricter restriction.

Given two options as to what to do, I will almost always choose the one with the tighter restrictions, because that's less likely to be interpreted as wrong or to have unexpected consequences.

That out of the way... this thread continues my lifelong saga of "The more I hear about California the less I ever want to visit" =P


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Orthos wrote:
That out of the way... this thread continues my lifelong saga of "The more I hear about California the less I ever want to visit" =P

Just wanted you to know what, specifically, I was favoriting. There was a lot to favorite in there, but this, well, this takes the cake.

It's not that I'd never want to go there, like New York, but with 49 other states to look at, California is somewhere above Alabama or New York and waaaaay behind all of the others.

Including Alaska, and I am a Floridian.

Silver Crusade

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O wrote:
That out of the way... this thread continues my lifelong saga of "The more I hear about California the less I ever want to visit" =P

The more I live here in Ca., The more I want to leave

Shadow Lodge

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Heh.

I don't mean it in a way to disrespect or insult any Californians (and yes I'm aware we have several here)... but it just seems like any time I stumble onto new information about the place, it's something that's an immediate turn-off for me.

I'm sure there's parts of the state that are lovely and wouldn't drive me into a frothing rage, but they're the parts no one ever talks about. And the parts people do talk about make me put my head through a wall.

And yes, I'm aware most Californians would likewise never want to live where I have (Texas, Arizona, Tennessee, and Georgia).


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Oh, yeah, CA isn't about the people like NY has been for me here in Florida. I'm just not interested in Hollywood, Florida is sunny enough, and the culture is too extreme left (Texas is too extreme right for me, and below Alabama on the "places I'd ever return to" list.)

Shadow Lodge

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I like Texas, and miss it greatly, but that's probably primarily because I was born and raised there; I imagine if I'd lived somewhere else my whole life I'd have different opinions.

But yeah, otherwise agree with your analyses one hundred percent.

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