It is likely my distaste for High Magic campaigns coming through.
I at least have no idea what scale folks like trembley/king are operating at. I have no idea how common magic at well past 9th level spells is. I feel like Howard the Duck playing in a game where the NPC's are Reed Richards and Superman.
Pathfinder/D&D has a similar issue if high level NPC's exist then there is no reason for low level PC's to be important. It becomes Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead the RPG.
I can kind of understand where you're coming from, but with far less experience. The way I see it is that at worst, they are stronger than us, and we are much more likely to fill the gaps in their plans as long as we follow them. We may -not- be that important, if we don't carve out our own niche and continue to do as we are asked.
But, from my experience as a DM, the reason why gods don't just do everything is because there are other gods for them to concern themselves with. Certainly it'd be nice to be on their level, but that will likely come later, you know? :) And it takes that sort of pursuit to make it there.
Stronger than me is fine, no problem with stronger than me. Hell I played Skull and Shackles and enjoyed the heck out the Wormwood.
The problem is when player choice becomes meaningless. And to me at least this appears to be happening. When NPC's start casually tossing around amounts of power that even at max level the pc's will never approach how can we as players contribute? Why bother trying to understand what is happening or try to come up with a play when either your side or the opposition will simply pull out a power you cannot comprehend and that is not even hinted at in the game rules or provided background.
Why act? Just let the NPC's deal with the problem. Player actions have to matter otherwise why play?
I am likely overreacting, but I am seeing red flags, and thought I should say something.
Big important thing: I'm not telling you not to speak. I'll never do that, unless you're being pointlessly belligerent to one person (I.E. telling them not to speak). I'm just trying to get things figured out as best I can and understand where you're coming from. :)
One major thing is that your class, on its own, is written to say 'you can do big incredible things, you just have to convince the GM.' Ritual is amazing and awesome and glorious, and it only hints at one major theme within this system: The things that are not expressly written down are entirely fair game. You could totally create an item that does X with the help of the DM. Or a move that does Y. Or the DM can just hand you a move that does Z for reason Q. There is no +1 sword unless you want for there to be one. It's all about imagination, IMO. But then again, I chose channeler, which very strongly supports that.
Meh likely my dislike for High magic coming through. Might need to switch to a less magical class to avoid the issue.
In fact that might well be a solution to keep on the table. I could do Chaney as a Fighter or a Druid no problem at all.
I totally understand, Chaney. High-magic settings aren't for everyone. I am attempting to prevent you from feeling overshadowed, obviously I'm not succeeding completely; but you did crash an entire sailing vessel into the mainland. You aren't exactly Howard the Duck level unless you impose those limits upon yourself.
If you'd rather play a magic-less class, we can talk about it, but I'd want to make sure it actually addresses your problem. #1 concern for me is that everyone's enjoying themselves in my game.
I'm not sure what the solution is, largely because I'm not clear on the problem apart from feeling a bit overshadowed. Have to wait and see I suppose.
I've posted in Gameplay twice, on Saturday and earlier today, but just previewed it without posting it. D'oh! Is my actual intelligence falling to rival Aifric's?
It's alright Aifric, as long as you caught it xD
Eventually
This is actually the first time I've ran into a dislike I have with this system. And... it's pretty much my only dislike so far. The difference in a 9 and a 12 is... nothing. That's a huge difference, but it's still middle of the road with no mods. That means that it would take four levels to change a low-average stat into a good stat. That seems pretty hefty to me.
Would it fall to the scout or the trailblazer to determine direction here? Or would it normally come to literature to decide?
That's a problem to be sure, one that I've also noticed. I've attempted to address the issue somewhat by involving "critical successes" in combat that kick in at 12+ rolls, but I could easily apply that logic to out-of-combat rolls as well, to add some varying gradations to the success/fail system.
I meant statistically, actually! A Dexterity of 9 and a Dexterity of 12 are functionally the same. That's a significant gap! Especially given that the difference between a 16 and an 18 (or even a 17 and an 18!) is a whole point. It'd make more sense to have the numbers linear, as opposed to a bell curve of success v. failure. But then again... I guess the rolls are also a bell curve... of success v. failure.
Oh yes, good point with the stats. With the way DW is laid out, you're expected to end the game at around level 10. I suppose they set out the stats that way so that stat boost increases are limited in their immediate effectiveness? Just a guess..
I'd probably trim the numbers inwards a bit on the higher end if I played with a home game. Make the upper numbers match what everyone is used to. What happens is an 18 becomes +4, and 2d6+4 only comes up as a fail 1/36 of the time. In turn, you will only not -completely- succeed something like 28% of the time. With that level of investment in a stat, it seems to work out better for my tastes regarding 'high fantasy'. But... I think it's intended that the chance of failure be a big deal in this. I'm not sure.
Off topic, but is this a sick campaign setting idea or what?
http://tribality.com/2015/01/27/system-agnostic-the-city-of-salt-in-wounds/
Discussion isn't just for game discussion, silly! I'll look in a bit and inform on my opinion :p
That is indeed insane.
It's a boy! Due date 4/20
I still don't know what's going on!
Off topic, but is this a sick campaign setting idea or what?
http://tribality.com/2015/01/27/system-agnostic-the-city-of-salt-in-wounds/
Low Life for Savage Worlds did this idea quite well. A giant monster, head in central France feet deep in Russia, provides resources for several cities. One of them exports hair and earwax as the basis of the economy.
I love Low Life.
A less gonzo, and less wonderful in my opinion, take on this was in Day after Ragnarok. The Midguard was summoned to aid the Axis in WWII. It was killed when the Enola Gay flew into it's eye. An excellent Diesel-Punk post apocalypse game
Low Life for Savage Worlds did this idea quite well. A giant monster, head in central France feet deep in Russia, provides resources for several cities. One of them exports hair and earwax as the basis of the economy.I love Low Life.
That sounds sick. Head in France and feet in Russia? That's ENORMOUS.
Take a look at Low Life. You will not regret it.
You know, of all the characters I've ever interacted with, the one I have the most problem separating player from character for... is Chaney. So, looking over that... I'm very very surprised at the subject matter, based solely on the fact that Chaney is so... different from that world. Take that as a compliment... probably. :P
Low life is gonzo, crude, and over the top but it is also an excellent FRPG where the rules, background, and play are fully integrated. Everything hangs together. It really feels like a world. MERP managed this back in the day but only because it had Middle-Earth to draw from.
Andy Hopp managed this all by his lonesome.
I know I will never get to run this because the art and language is so important to the game that the players would have to be as obsessed as me. But if I ever to a homebrew fantasy Savage Worlds game I expect I will simply re-skin Low Life.
[/fanboy]
TLDR. Tight rule set, great story, amazing art. New core book coming soon, buy it unless you hate Savage Worlds.
This is my other favorite SW setting. It might fit Chaney a bit better. Well Sundered and the Necessary Evil game I am running on these boards.
I'm honestly pretty limited on the RPGs I've done. If it isn't Wizards or Whitewolf... I've probably not experienced it. :(
To be frank most game systems are less than thrilling. My best advice is to find a system you like and then steal settings from games with rules you hate.
For example If I ever try an Pathfinder AP it will be using Fate Core or Savage Worlds. Pathfinder is far too clunky for the way I do things.
I actually tend to streamline Pathfinder when I run it, or make things that usually have little or no use cover more ground. (Like all professions get bumped up to the value level of survival. It's not perfect, but it means a person who wants to be a brewer doesn't have to take alchemy, profession brewer, and appraise... etc.)
I also dislike that pathfinder has such a wide variance (which is what drew me to Dungeon world; the idea of it being 2d6 creates a much smaller 'swing' and I wanted to see it in action.) I do think I'd -love- to run a system that works off of 3d6 wherever you'd normally use 1d20. It could lead to some awesome things. Or terrible. Who knows!
I liked the idea of Fate (my only knowledge of it is the Dresden Files Fate books), but the only people willing to play it are those willing to be DMs most of the time. Players get antsy when you start talking about 'compelling their characters' and such.
Bear with me this week as my posting speed flutters, I have numerous doctor appointments my girlfriend and I will be attending. I'm still here, just a lot of running around to do!
My apologies but I am afraid I must exit this campaign.
It is just not my kind of game, at least not now.
Frogfoot, you are an excellent GM, I am just not the right player for this style.
Aifric, Athena, Mazatl, Svog, you are all excellent players and I look forward to seeing where the adventure takes you.
Good luck and good gaming.
It happens, man. No hard feelings. See ya.
Thanks.
It was not an easy call.
I am going to enjoy the heck out of lurking though.
:) No big deal. I wish everyone who left games was as mature as you've been. :) See you in another game?
Looking forward to it Mazatl.
Bye, Chaney/PWO. It's been fun.
good luck and have fun, Chaney :D
Thanks Aifric, Svog, it's been a blast.
Hope you get well :)
Get well soon.
See you when you get better.
I'm back! Feeling..80%, not quite 100% yet, but ready to get into the action. Been far too long since we've had some exciting combat up in this m*+++*@%+~*%!
Post coming soon
My apartment flooded at 2 AM this morning...I'm beyond overwhelmed right now :'( Please don't expect anything of me today and possibly tomorrow. I will get back up to speed ASAP.
Take your time, I've no plans on leaving Pazio anytime soon
Take care of business. We'll be here.
Hey guys, this isn't easy to write, but I think I've hit a bit of a creative wall with this campaign...I've been thinking about this a lot, and although I really enjoy all of your characters, I think my campaign's plot just kind of "jumped the shark" after the conclusion of the first arc on the pirate ship.
I threw you guys to another plane of existence because I thought the shakeup would be what the story needed to really gain some momentum, and it helped a little bit, but it also took us away from everything I had previously built up about the plot of the world. I no longer could make use of Tremblay or Guisarme, or anything having to do with your backstories, or the city of Magna Gracia. Additionally, without the use of Chaney's Wizard Rituals I didn't have an easy way to give you to get right back home...or maybe I just wasn't creative enough.
Anyway, I'm going to be wiping the slate clean on this one, bringing it to a rather sudden stop. I'd like to fire up another campaign to replace it, but it's going to be a little bit of time before I can start it, since my girlfriend's getting induced into labor tomorrow morning. I'll be keeping the campaign open for a while so I can easily get in touch with all of you, since I'd like to play with you guys again; if you'd prefer, though, I can mark your characters inactive to keep your campaign pages uncluttered.
I wish I could end the campaign with some more closure, but I just kind of painted myself into a corner. I learned a lot from this campaign, though, and I have had a blast with your characters, they are seriously awesome.
It's no problem here. I'm sad to see Mazatl go, but she got a better run than just about any other time I've tried to bring her to life.
On that note, I was having similar trouble. I just couldn't get the character to function in my head all that well. I kept pressing onwards, doing what Mazatl would do (adopting a leadership role because the brightest person left), but I was still at a loss for where to take her... Or which direction to go.
So, for what it's worth: I wasn't doing much in the way of making things easier on you, as I wasn't fully feeling in touch with my character. I've been in kind of a funk lately, and only a few characters have remained easy to play. On the bright side: Viola is one of those. Don't think, just do is probably the easiest thing ever to play.
I'll probably try something similar if you start something up again. But also an 'action hero' sort. Like Mage or Fighter (or brute?) or the like.
So... I'm game once you're up for it.
Sounds good. I'm glad to hear that you understand. I felt really bad closing this one down, since I still remember well how excited I was for it to begin.
No big deal. Like I told Chaney: As long as the responsible things are done (telling people what's up), I have no problems. :) I might be a little sad, but I'll live. :)
Now... players and DM's that disappear without a word go on 'the list' o_o
I fully understand getting blocked and losing inspiration and such. I don't get not being up front. I'm not terribly communicative, so things like 'I'm having problems playing Mazatl' don't come to light, but I'd definitely express why I was leaving if I opted to. So... respect for doing so. :) Of like 10 campaigns to die off... you're only the fourth person to explain what was up as opposed to performing 'the vanishing'.