Oracle of Flame with Scorching Ray


Advice

The Exchange

So I've got to create a character for a new campaign. I soured on healers in all kinds of games after playing one for a VERY long time and doing nothing but "now I heal the tank again" every session. Well, my turn has rolled around once more and rather than playing a "now I channel positive energy again" cleric, I decided to play an oracle. I thought an oracle of flames would be a good choice so I could at least throw out a little damage here and there.

Then I discovered that the Flame Mystery gets pretty much every iconic fire spell from the wizard list EXCEPT scorching ray (my favorite). Instead, we get resist energy. I went exploring for other ways to get my baby on my spell list and couldn't find anything that met my criteria.

So I turn to the internet for help. I'm willing to entertain any item, any feat, even a single dip into another class. I don't need to have it immediately but I'd like it by 7th or 8th level. The GM says any Pathfinder material is legal.

So far all I've come up with is using a wand or a custom-built Staff of Flame. There's negatives to both, what I really want is to have it on my Oracle spell list. I'll even take an arcane version and suffer the spell failure chance.

Thanks in advance!


This prestige class is in the paizo product "Seeker of secrets" and can be found here. It allows you to add spells from other classes to your spell list -- but raises them up a level and at the price of losing a caster level. However it makes a great 4 level dip.

The Exchange

Unless I'm misreading it, I would only need a two-level dip into Pathfinder Savant to get Scorching Ray.

The costs are a little more than I was hoping for (two feats, a tight prescription on skills, would cost me two levels of Oracle mystery/revelation and one level of oracle spells) and would put Scorching Ray on the same level as Fireball (3rd).

Still, it's the best thing I've seen so far!


You only need 2 levels, but 3 levels gives you scroll master (which isn't bad at all) and the fourth gives you identify two times a day (as a swift action) while making up for the BAB of level 3.

Also if you take those extra two levels you could pick up good hope from the bard (if you want it) or some other spells as well.


the reason for this is because divine casters arent supposed to nuke things from a far, like sorcerers and such. they get more buffs and they gets heals.

i too with that oracles of flame would get this but it aint happening. gonna have to think outside the box (in this case the oracle class) to get it. this is one reason i dont care for divine casters. but i LOVE the oracle.

The Exchange

Fnipernackle wrote:

the reason for this is because divine casters arent supposed to nuke things from a far, like sorcerers and such. they get more buffs and they gets heals.

Yeah, that's true. I like the way the oracles are a fairly good healer with a "slightly less good" other class. Lore is a healer skill-monkey, Battle is a healer who can hold her own in a fight. Really Life is the only one that doesn't look interesting to me. I'm just upset that Flame has every iconic "Fiery" spell except Scorching Ray and Flaming Sphere.

I haven't done major maths on the save DC of fireball vs touch attacks of scorching ray but from past experience it seems that giving Fireball to the Oracle is WAY more nuketacular.

Silver Crusade

If you don't want to do a normal casting orical. Orical of battle and get a pole arm. Now your a second rank fighter that can heal the main fighter if needed. After you take the Skill at arms revelation you can use one. Not as much damage as a full fighter. With the Manuver Master revelation trip. This gives you reach trip (7th improved trip 11th greater trip) with the cmb equal to your orical level. You can trip from the 2nd rank with a high cmb. Just a idea for a orical that is not a heal bot.

With how they changed items. After 24HR it becomes a base bouns. So you can start with a 13 Cha and +6 cha item and still cast level 9 spells.

Martial Weapons Cost Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical Range Weight Type Special
Glaive 8 gp 1d8 1d10 ×3 — 10 lbs. S reach
Exotic Weapons Cost Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical Range Weight Type Special
Fauchard 14 gp 1d8 1d10 18-20/x2 — 10 lbs. S reach, trip

Using a 15 point buy. Human
Str 15+2= 17 ( +1 at level 4,8,&12 = 20 )
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 7
Cha 14
Feet
Human : Exta Revelation : Warsight
1 : Improved Initive
3 : Exotice Weapon Fauchard
Revelation
1 : Skill at Arms
3 : Weapon Master Fauchard

The Exchange

Yeah, there's lots of fun Oracle builds.

I've already decided I'm playing an Oracle of Flame, I'm just trying to figure out a way to weasel Scorching Ray onto my spell list.

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

If I were your GM, I'd let you just spend a feat to get it as a 3rd level spell. The Super Genius "Guide to Feats of Spellcasting" has an Extra Spells feat that adds +2 spells known, but they have to be class spells. I'd figure burning a whole feat just to get one spell, especially at +1 spell level over what arcane casters could get it at, would be more than enough of a cost to offset the benefits of access to it as a divine caster.


Belafon wrote:

Yeah, there's lots of fun Oracle builds.

I've already decided I'm playing an Oracle of Flame, I'm just trying to figure out a way to weasel Scorching Ray onto my spell list.

Easiest way? Houserule it. Bring it up with ur gm. Maybe hell let u get it instead, or trade fireball or something else for it. You can always ask, unless ur in a society game.

The Exchange

Kvantum wrote:
If I were your GM, I'd let you just spend a feat to get it as a 3rd level spell. The Super Genius "Guide to Feats of Spellcasting" has an Extra Spells feat that adds +2 spells known, but they have to be class spells. I'd figure burning a whole feat just to get one spell, especially at +1 spell level over what arcane casters could get it at, would be more than enough of a cost to offset the benefits of access to it as a divine caster.

I'd love that. There's a feat in the APG - Expanded Arcana - that does something similar (adds one spell of your highest level or two lower level spells to your spells known) but they have to be class spells as well.

The GM for this has pretty much decided "If it says 'Paizo' and 'Pathfinder' somewhere on the cover, you can use it. Otherwise we're going straight from the core rules."


Belafon wrote:
The GM for this has pretty much decided "If it says 'Paizo' and 'Pathfinder' somewhere on the cover, you can use it.

Ah ha! The magic word is "Paizo". That opens the door to taking 3.5 Dragon Magazine material. I propose you take a 1 level dip into sorcerer and take the Mystic Theurge's best friend, the Alternate Source Spell metamagic feat from D.M. #325. The feat will allow you to qualify for the Mystic Theurge prestige class at 6th level. Advance at least two more levels in M.T. and you'll finally gain 2nd level sorcerer spells at 8th level. And voila, thanks to the M.T.'s combined spells ability, your character will then be able to use his 3rd level oracle spell slots to cast scorching ray. You can then go back to advancing as an oracle, having lost only 1 caster level, or you can continue advancing both your arcane and divine spellcasting by continuing on as a M.T. There's certainly some good synergy between the two spontaneous Charisma based casting classes. =)

Edit: And, if your group is using Traits, don't forget to pick up Magical Knack. Hell, as your GM if you can take it twice for each base class.

The Exchange

Ambrus wrote:
Belafon wrote:
The GM for this has pretty much decided "If it says 'Paizo' and 'Pathfinder' somewhere on the cover, you can use it.

Ah ha! The magic word is "Paizo". That opens the door to taking 3.5 Dragon Magazine material. I propose you take a 1 level dip into sorcerer and take the Mystic Theurge's best friend, the Alternate Source Spell metamagic feat from D.M. #325. The feat will allow you to qualify for the Mystic Theurge prestige class at 6th level. Advance at least two more levels in M.T. and you'll finally gain 2nd level sorcerer spells at 8th level. And voila, thanks to the M.T.'s combined spells ability, your character will then be able to use his 3rd level oracle spell slots to cast scorching ray. You can then go back to advancing as an oracle, having lost only 1 caster level, or you can continue advancing both your arcane and divine spellcasting by continuing on as a M.T. There's certainly some good synergy between the two spontaneous Charisma based casting classes. =)

Edit: And, if your group is using Traits, don't forget to pick up Magical Knack. Hell, as your GM if you can take it twice for each base class.

Hmmm... I don't have the magazine handy, but I don't believe it says Paizo AND Pathfinder. (Trust me, this insistence goes back a long way. If there was a mystery of nitpicking or a rules lawyer bloodline, some of these people would have it, possibly including me.)

I really looked hard at Mystic Theurge. If I had to take 3 (wizard) or 4 (sorcerer) levels to get scorching ray, there really isn't a reason NOT to continue on as a Mystic Theurge. But since we tend to face really challenging enemies when we can't come up with a way to role-play around them, I just think it would cut too far into my oracle spells. (I am the alleged healer after all, I just really wanted to have what's probably my favorite spell.)

Given the choices it looks like I'm going to have to give up on Scorching Ray or take the less satisfying (and sure to spark a debate when I reach CL 11) option of using a staff.

Oh well, maybe Ultimate Magic will have a feat I can pick up, or a prestige class I accidentaly qualify for.

Scarab Sages

Don't get me wrong, Scorching Ray is a pretty awesome lower level spell, but with the Oracle Revelations you qualify for, its just not that much better, IMHO.

Its not the end all be all of spells. Flame Oracles are just plain old made of awesome.

The Exchange

Bomanz wrote:

Don't get me wrong, Scorching Ray is a pretty awesome lower level spell, but with the Oracle Revelations you qualify for, its just not that much better, IMHO.

Its not the end all be all of spells. Flame Oracles are just plain old made of awesome.

Yeah, looking back at my posts it really does look like I went off the deep end on Scorching Ray. What happened was I looked at the mystery spell list and went "What? No Scorching Ray? That's my favorite surprise spell to bust into a room and send zinging off in three different directions. How can I get Scorching Ray?"

I really need to dial it back a notch or two. I need to remember that all that flamey damagey goodness is just gravy on an Oracle.

That Pathfinder Savant class Abraham brought up is pretty sweet though. Bonus spells and Scroll Mastery really would be awesome. I need to think about how to use him (maybe with another class).


Belafon wrote:


Thanks in advance!

Admonishing ray. It doesn't do fire damage but instead nonlethal force, but otherwise is scorching ray.

-James

The Exchange

james maissen wrote:
Admonishing ray. It doesn't do fire damage but instead nonlethal force, but otherwise is scorching ray.

Oooh, nice one. I think from a straight out min/max point of view that's better than scorching ray (since scorching ray doesn't have a save, you can't apply Burning Magic to it, and a lot less stuff has resistance to force than fire). I'll have to think about the character concept, the whole idea of flinging nothing but fire just appeals to me as a visual.


Another option, of course, is to just get yourself a flame tongue sword which can do the scorching ray thing once a day. It's not perfect, but definitely in theme and a much smaller investment than level dips. There's lots of ways to get the appropriate proficiency through racial abilities or traits.

You could also just take a single level dip into something that gives you the proficiency. Along those lines, a Barbarian 2/Flame Oracle 4 makes for an interesting Rage Prophet.


Belafon wrote:
I'll have to think about the character concept, the whole idea of flinging nothing but fire just appeals to me as a visual.

See if your DM would be fine as having it look like they were on fire, but the main damage was done by concussive force of the blast.

Also can I interest you in selling your soul? Or at least your PC's soul? Look at 2 levels of Diabolist.

-James


Admonishing Ray + Metamagic (Elemental Spell: Fire) = Scorching Ray.

If you are planning on taking a Flaming Oracle, you should consider investing a feat in Elemental Spell: Fire anyway, to make use of the burning magic ability as much as possible.

The Exchange

james maissen wrote:
Also can I interest you in selling your soul? Or at least your PC's soul? Look at 2 levels of Diabolist.

That's certainly got the visual I'm looking for. The fact that it's optional is nice. Hmmm...

Doc Cosmic wrote:

Admonishing Ray + Metamagic (Elemental Spell: Fire) = Scorching Ray.

If you are planning on taking a Flaming Oracle, you should consider investing a feat in Elemental Spell: Fire anyway, to make use of the burning magic ability as much as possible.

Yeah, that's something I thought about. The only problem is that Burning Magic requires a spell that deals damage and has a save. As an oracle I really have to be picky about which spells I know.

Right now I'm leaning towards picking up Admonishing Ray and then getting a lesser Metamagic Rod of Elemental Spell: Fire when I get up to a higher level (they're relatively cheap).


Well, the nice thing about the feat, and being a spontaneous caster, is that you can choose when you want to add the fire descriptor and on what spells, allowing you to pick up non-fire spells with your "free" spell choices and adding the fire descriptor to them as needed.

Of course, the 2 level dip for Diabolist is one of the best dips in the game if you are a caster. There are few builds that it does not enhance. The only reason to not take Diabolist is because it does not fit your character concept, so you just can't go wrong with it.

Shadow Lodge

Doc Cosmic wrote:

Well, the nice thing about the feat, and being a spontaneous caster, is that you can choose when you want to add the fire descriptor and on what spells, allowing you to pick up non-fire spells with your "free" spell choices and adding the fire descriptor to them as needed.

Of course, the 2 level dip for Diabolist is one of the best dips in the game if you are a caster. There are few builds that it does not enhance. The only reason to not take Diabolist is because it does not fit your character concept, so you just can't go wrong with it.

Does Elemental Spell: Fire really add the fire descriptor as well? It just says it changes the damage dealt to fire, but unlike several of the bloodlines, doesn't mention changing the descriptor. It would be logical that it does, but as it's written, it doesn't?


Rules as Written way of adding Scorching Ray?

How about Spell Research, its part of the rules.

Research a divine fire spell similar to Scorching Ray. I could see a deduction in damage vs Scorching Ray but go the Flamestrike route and make it half divine power damage.

Flaming Smite or Lance of the Heavens?


I'd think it'd be better to get Elemental Spell: Cold than to get Elemental Spell: Fire. Enemy immunities and resistances and all that.

Shadow Lodge

Eldritch Heritage.

Take Skill Focus: Knowledge (whatever), Eldritch Heritage: Arcane, and Improved Eldritch Heritage: Arcane. Then you can add a Sorcerer/Wizard spell to your spells known, and it can be Scorching Ray.


I cant' remember if Eldritch Heritage add the bonus spell list of the Bloodline...if the answer is yes, then Eldritch Heritage: Efreeti is the natural choice.

Shadow Lodge

Black XIII wrote:
I cant' remember if Eldritch Heritage add the bonus spell list of the Bloodline...if the answer is yes, then Eldritch Heritage: Efreeti is the natural choice.

You don't get the bonus spell list. But with Arcane, one of the bloodline powers is extra Sor/Wiz spells. That, you can get.


InVinoVeritas wrote:

Eldritch Heritage.

Take Skill Focus: Knowledge (whatever), Eldritch Heritage: Arcane, and Improved Eldritch Heritage: Arcane. Then you can add a Sorcerer/Wizard spell to your spells known, and it can be Scorching Ray.

That works, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to the OP to wait until level 11 to pull it off.

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