Say a cave troll with a BAB of +6 charges, pounces, and full attacks. It has 4 claws and a bite (2 claws, 2 rakes, bite).
Can it replace all 5 of its attacks with trip attacks? Or does CM have to follow BAB, meaning it'd only get 2? I know in 3.5 a creature can replace any of its attacks with a maneuver that uses an attack, such as trip, sunder, or grapple.
Trip reads: "You can attempt to trip your opponent in place of a melee attack."
There are no limitations based on BAB. You may replace ANY attack with a trip attempt, so you are entitled to as many trip attempts as you have attacks.
Just remember that unless the troll has improved trip (combat expertise and int 13 required... so unlikely at best), it will provoke attacks of opportunity with every attempt. This means that those trip attempts might be really hard to pull off:
Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver.
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It appears to me that you cannot take full attacks on a charge:
Attacking on a Charge
After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.
A charging character gets a +2 bonus on combat maneuver attack rolls made to bull rush an opponent.
Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.
It can replace all with trips. however, it uses the base attack bonus of the attack being replacing. Meaning that the claws(secondary attacks) will be made at a -5 penalty.
Can you give some specific ruling on that? I posted a thread asking about natural attacks and the "Quick" combat maneuver feats and people didn't say anything like that...
It can replace all with trips. however, it uses the base attack bonus of the attack being replacing. Meaning that the claws(secondary attacks) will be made at a -5 penalty.Can you give some specific ruling on that? I posted a thread asking about natural attacks and the "Quick" combat maneuver feats and people didn't say anything like that...http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/universalMonsterRules.html
Look under natural attacks. " Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5"
But claws are primary attacks, so they are made at your full bab.
It appears to me that you cannot take full attacks on a charge:
Attacking on a Charge
After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.
A charging character gets a +2 bonus on combat maneuver attack rolls made to bull rush an opponent.
Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.
You must have missed the word "pounce" in the OP's post. Incase you don't know what it does:
Pounce (Ex) When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability).
As for the debate about being able to utilize trips, I don't see a reason it couldn't replace all 5 attacks with trips, though it would provoke an attack of opportunity from the target of the trip on each and every trip attempt unless it had the improved trip feat which due to the 13 int requirement on combat expertise is likely out of the question for an animal. The other (better) option is simpler, the creature could have the Trip(Ex) monster ability...
Trip (Ex) A creature with the trip special attack can attempt to trip its opponent as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity if it hits with the specified attack. If the attempt fails, the creature is not tripped in return.
This would allow it to make a free trip attempt on each successful melee attack. I would say if you wanted to add this to an existing creature that it would increase the CR of that creature by 1, maybe 2 if the CR of the creature was 6 or higher. Just my 2 cp on those CR increases though.
You must have missed the word "pounce" in the OP's post.
Though, assuming this is the cave troll in question, it doesn't look to have pounce. Or is there a different or custom cave troll we're looking at?
Edit: Not to sound snarky or anything. If there is indeed a different one or another way to get pounce, please do correct me.
Oh, I have no idea. Generally, the only way for monsters to get pounce is by having it inately. Maybe the OP gave us the name of the wrong creature or maybe he just added the abilities to the creature, not sure...
For the record, I did not detect snark in your comment, so you're in the clear.
Edit: didn't notice the link you posted on my smart phone. We never use 3rd party stuff, so I had no idea that the cave troll had rake...
Maybe the OP gave us the name of the wrong creature or maybe he just added the abilities to the creature, not sure...
Perhaps. Fortunately though, I suppose it doesn't really matter for the question asked.
For the record, I did not detect snark in your comment, so you're in the clear.
Good to know. Just wanted to make sure :P
Not to derail the thread at all but what would happen in the case of the "Quick" Combat Maneuver feats (Dirty Trick, Reposition, etc.) for this same question?