Clarification on Wildshaped size mods to ac


Advice


Just wanting to clarify this. According to Beast Shape 3:

Huge animal: If the form you take is that of a Huge animal, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Strength, a -4 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +6 natural armor bonus.

Now my GM is stating there is also a size modifier for Huge of -2 as well added to this...therefore netting the ac gain for a huge shape at +2.

Can someone clarify please?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

The modifiers as given for the spell as they are size modifiers do not stack with with the size modifier for changing size.

As the ability points out the SPELL is exactly all and what you get, limited by subset of what the form itself offers.


As written in the PRD under the Magic/Polymorph section:

PRD wrote:
If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.

So yes, you'd gain a +6 natural armor bonus, but you'd lose 2 AC to Dex and 2 AC for changing size. . . for a net gain of +2. Wild shape rules closely follow the polymorph rules. . .

Sovereign Court

LazarX wrote:

The modifiers as given for the spell as they are size modifiers do not stack with with the size modifier for changing size.

As the ability points out the SPELL is exactly all and what you get, limited by subset of what the form itself offers.

Core Rulebook pg 212 section: Polymorph wrote:
If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.

It was NOT easy to find this section that gives the over-all changes a polymorph spell makes to an individual (like if you become a fish you do get to water breath).

Sovereign Court

meabolex wrote:

As written in the PRD under the Magic/Polymorph section:

...

Dang, not quick enough.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Yes that's about right.


So all in all, a pretty worthless "class feature".

Lets see now. Druid spells suck. Check. Definately inferior to both mage and cleric well beyond a shadow of a doubt.

BAB sucks. Check.

Wildshape is basically useless as you fine with being a complete glass cannon. Without wild armor (so +4 armor here...dont expect that until your teen levels minimum), you will have an ac of 12 + barkskin bonus (+3). Congrats on the great 15 ac. A lv 1 mage with a dex of 12 has that. Impressive. Check.

The developers had to have a great hatred for any animal form other than diretiger and raptor. Lord forbid a wildshape druid try to tank.

Or is the class simply watered down so much now that the developers just want the class to be a support class?

Grand Lodge

You could check out Treant Monks Druid guide which is an excellent source for druidic thoughts. (Spirit of the beast for tanking), and there are some builds giving high DPR to be found here: DPR Olympics.

But there are lots of uses for the druid, though not all of them are shining during combat. Druids have lots of good buffs and utility spells. Not to mention all the situations you can get out of by choosing the right wild shape form... (Walking through walls? Go earth elemental. Need mobility during a fight? Go air elemental. Inconspicuous spying? Go for a tiny animal of a common local variant. And so on... Mind you - without spending spell slots to achieve this flexibility)

Still, having the option of trading your memorized spells for summon spells is also a nice ability. All in all I think the druid may still be a viable option.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

And again, I can only marvel how myopic people are. The best part is always, when it comes to trying to sell their opions as THE TRUTH.

*shakes head*

Sovereign Court

Taason the Black wrote:
So all in all, a pretty worthless "class feature".

I dunno... it depends on your build. My druid may only have a 16 AC at level 8, but I am fond of the 15' reach with pounce & rake, not to mention all the travel modes available. Natural flight, climb, swim and burrow speeds... plus earthglide as an elemental. Throw in some amazing hide in plain sight ability (who notices yet another sparrow in the back alley or a squirrel in the forest?)

You just have to pick your forms appropriately, and choose a few must-have feats like natural spell, power attack, vital strike and toughness. I am looking forward to turning into a Behemoth Hippo, vital striking my 15' bite attack for 8d8+18 damage next level, not counting Magic Fang...


The Druid is not the best at anything.

But the Druid is Fair at a lot of things.

Can do more damage than a cleric, heal better than a wizard, have enough skill points to be viable (unlike a cleric), has Fair BAB, Has a different line of spells (warp wood, heat metal, rusting grasp with reach feat, transmute metal to wood, repel wood, repel metal and stone, reverse gravity), and Wildshape provide travel spells with a 1 hour / level duration like fly, swim & breath underwater, earth glide for hours. And latter on, Alter Self at level 13 lets you even hide in cities, as that cities race.

PS = Do not bother investing in Wild till level 15+. Instead look at rings of deflection or amulets of natural armor. They stack while in Wildshape, and with guns coming out... deflection is better anyway.


Oliver McShade wrote:

The Druid is not the best at anything.

But the Druid is Fair at a lot of things.

Heh, never thought I'd see the day. . .

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