Quick question to you guys who hate Ninjas / Samurai


Ninja Discussion: Round 1

Scarab Sages

How do you deal with monks?


Matthew Trent wrote:
How do you deal with monks?

There are a lot of anti-monk threads also and some ban the class on concept alone.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

They just pretend that Friar Tuck could walk on water ;)


Matthew Trent wrote:
How do you deal with monks?

I ask them which temple they are from.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

I know, let's make an 'alternate class' Savate master who gets better meshing and superior abilities to the monk and get back to you.

Edit: Less snarky, there *are* Western martial arts, Savate, Pale', Pankration, Krav Maga. So you can make a 'western monk' easily. In Golarion, there are Chelish monastic orders. In Greyhawk there is the Scarlet Brotherhood (which brought us the 2e monk). In Eberron, there are monastic orders, etc.

The issue at least some people have is that the ninja is, in several ways, mechanically superior to the rogue in his rogue talents. Several 'ninja talents' are the major magic talent w/o a prerequisite and with a recharge factor. The 'stinking bomb' can be taken, doesn't require ki for the first time and is basically a stinking cloud which my book gives as a third level spell. We'll call it a second level spell, and it's still superior to major magic.


I would like to see a decent Pugilist.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

CourtFool wrote:
I would like to see a decent Pugilist.

In all seriousness Poodle, would you base it off the figher or the monk for an archtype?


The issue with the monks is the weapons. It is always Asian unless you house rule those.

The issue I have with the ninja is it is an archetype they call something else. On top of that it has better rogue talents rogues can't have as they are not as cool. It does not change all that much, less then some archetypes we do have.

So we have a better archetype for no reason other then the name and a Asian/Non Asian talent wall for no reason.


A lot of monk weapons are just simple peasant tools transformed in weapons.

Kama and nunchaku are examples. Really, maybe only siangham does not fit with western weaponry OR with something that is a transformed farming tool.


Yeah I really dislike giving items new stats because it uses a different name in another language. I had hopped paizo was gonna kill that monk weapon junk. Introducing weapon groups much like a fighter would be fun and something I do for home games normally.

After all not all monks are Asian and come from monasteries.


Matthew Morris wrote:
In all seriousness Poodle, would you base it off the figher or the monk for an archtype?

Barbarian.

But then I would base the Ninja off a Rogue.

So…yeah.


This isn't directed at anyone in particular in this thread. I just didn't want to start a new topic.

rant incoming

Giving feedback on the ninja is fantastic and I support it when it comes from playtesting. I know this is the internet and everyone has an opinion, but I'd like to know why there are so many threads with complaints about the ninja or samurai based only on the origin of the word or how it may or may not mesh with a campaign world. I don't recall etymology or homebrew compatibility being part of the playtest parameters. What if a friend of yours was working on their cupcake recipe, asked if you thought a particular combination of ingredients tasted right, and your only response is that you prefer donuts? How is that helpful?
To everyone giving playtest feedback, thank you. To the rest, no thanks.

end rant


jakebacon wrote:

This isn't directed at anyone in particular in this thread. I just didn't want to start a new topic.

rant incoming

Giving feedback on the ninja is fantastic and I support it when it comes from playtesting. I know this is the internet and everyone has an opinion, but I'd like to know why there are so many threads with complaints about the ninja or samurai based only on the origin of the word or how it may or may not mesh with a campaign world. I don't recall etymology or homebrew compatibility being part of the playtest parameters. What if a friend of yours was working on their cupcake recipe, asked if you thought a particular combination of ingredients tasted right, and your only response is that you prefer donuts? How is that helpful?
To everyone giving playtest feedback, thank you. To the rest, no thanks.

end rant

While I agree with you, don't forget how important this game is to many people. Introducing an element that radically alters the setting from how one has imagined it is a big deal, and nobody's from Paizo is asking, "Do you want us to do this or not?" in another forum.

What if a baker was working on their doughnut recipe for your wedding, asked if you thought a particular combination of ingredients tasted right, and your only response is that you wanted a wedding cake, not a box of doughnuts? You might not be helping with the doughnut recipe very much, but you certainly should speak up at some point.


Blueluck wrote:

While I agree with you, don't forget how important this game is to many people. Introducing an element that radically alters the setting from how one has imagined it is a big deal, and nobody's from Paizo is asking, "Do you want us to do this or not?" in another forum.

What if a baker was working on their doughnut recipe for your wedding, asked if you thought a particular combination of ingredients tasted right, and your only response is that you wanted a wedding cake, not a box of doughnuts? You might not be helping with the doughnut recipe very much, but you certainly should speak up at some point.

But it's my choice on what I want included in my wedding, not the baker. If he asks for help with a recipe, I'll give feedback, but I won't feel obligated to have that item at the reception simply because it's available and I certainly wouldn't complain that he's offering it to everyone.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

If folks want to discuss what to do with monks in their game, we have boards for that. This is the ninja playtest. We have always had the stance that the GM should be empowered to decide what to include in his game, from the core book going forward (see page 9, the most important rule).

This thread is locked.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Ultimate Combat Playtest / Ninja Discussion: Round 1 / Quick question to you guys who hate Ninjas / Samurai All Messageboards
Recent threads in Ninja Discussion: Round 1