Asked for feedback on Gunslinger, here are some, with appologies if it seems harsh:
He's just a focused fighter with some rogue talents but no sneak attack, most of his abilities like a mix-match of the two.
Abilities---
Firearm - While I can see that it's required based on the class theme, it is unfair to give 1 class ~2000gp in free gear not any other class. ALL Role playing backgrounds will require gunslingers to be from ultra rich families, Joe Dirt definately can't afford a firearm.
Grit & Deeds - The one thing I like about the class despite the fact that deeds are the exact same idea as Rogue talents, & Oracle Mysteries. What I like is the limited uses with changed of regaining uses.
Brave and tough - Just give the gunslinger a Good Fortitude save and Bravery, that would be almost exactly the same thing and less insulting to my intelligence with "look, a new ability no one else has".
Gun training - Why are you giving it 4 times when only 2 types of firearms exist?
Other comments:
Reload rate needs to be nerfed seriously if you are truely going with muskets and pistols. Event the fastest person took at least 30 seconds to reload a musket because the barrel HAD to be swabbed before putting in another load of gunpowder or embers from the last shot would blow it up in your face. I can suspend belief some for the sake of a game, but this is too far.
Gun attack = Touch attack - NO WAY! Even basic metal armor plates hindered the progress of a bullet, and full plate could still deflect musketballs. Armor died out in that eary purely because of cost and accuracy. A dozen men with guns is cheeper to field than 2 in full plate, and it took a dozen meen to actually hit something, unrifled muskets and pistols had horrible accuracy.
There are other threads suggesting no dex/dodge, not true. Jackie Chan is harder to hit with a gun than John Klutz. It's all agility/dodge. Also another thread about how magic on your armor is worthless and should NOT be. I agree. Magical armor +1 should be able to deflect a ball just as good as a ring of protection +1.
I cannot think of how to resolve Gun accuracy in battle, I'll have to think about it, but definately NOT Touch AC.
I too have to agree with Info on quite a few points here. The idea is very good and in the past I've seen classes like this do okay, they just need a few things to be changed.
First, to InfoStorm: The idea that muskets required at least 30 second's to reload is a legit point, however, you must realize that this technology came from most likely very different origins to our muskets, and could have an easier reloading time. That being said, 1 full round action is still too short for how low tech the guns appear to be (if Wayne Reynold's sketch is anything to base off of). In my opinion, you may be able to get away with 2 full rounds for the musket and 1 full round for the pistols, maybe lore wise changing them to have a basic single shot cartridge such as a low tech revolver.
Secondly, to Paizo: The touch attack is a bit too far. As Info stated, the idea that a bullet can pierce plate is only lesser, and often just left such armor with dents. My recommendation is to have the bullets gain a piece effect, such as to ignore the first few points of armor per shot (say, 3 for pistols and 5-6 for muskets). The magic effect to armor would then be a bit more balanced, as it would extend the wearer's AC vs. these attacks.
thrid: A few more kinds of guns may be useful. As Info stated, only 2 guns are currently revealed. While you may have more in store, it would be good to know of maybe just the ideas of the weapons, if not the full stats yet. If not, maybe you could try to add some different but reasonable weapons, such as some form of incendiary weapon, net shot, or some such devise.
Great work so far, I love how the classes are coming along and that you have considered our support as players in the creation of this product.
Someone else posted the idea, just give Pistols a +4 bonus to hit, with a -1 penalty for every 10 feet away the target it. After 40 feet, you start going into negative which represents the guns loss of power and in-accuracy that they were known for.
Muskets, start with a +6 bonus to hit, so after 60 feet you start getting penalty.
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This give them ability to bypass armor, but sets a limit on how much.
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Also, this leave you the option in Modern or Futuristic setting of coming out with better firearms, were all you have to list is a better bonus or were up the range between the -1 penalties.
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Anyway another Option to look at.
Additional thoughts:
Dump the Extra Feats class features.
Instead just give Rapid Reload to the character multiple times, because with the rules as they stand in playtest, NOT taking Rapid Reload in each type of firearm will be the DEATH of the class, as it looses almost all of it's class abilities when all weapons are expended. All of the other classes can survive better when without their primary weapons, even an optimized fighter. -2 to hit & -4 damage is much more survivable when compared to no Grit/Deeds for example.
Ammo is also a problem... a campain away from civilization... it's easier to explain an archer making new arrows compared to setting up an alchemists lab and scounging for saltpeter, charcoal, and sulfer.
InfoStorm wrote: Ammo is also a problem... a campain away from civilization... it's easier to explain an archer making new arrows compared to setting up an alchemists lab and scounging for saltpeter, charcoal, and sulfer. I can't speak for the gunpowder, but at least so far as bullets go, it's literally just a ball of lead. Bring along a mold and melt some lead into it. Or don't use a mold and literally just make a hole in the ground. Seriously, people did that sometimes, too.
Why it costs one gold is beyond me.
More additional thoughts:
After reading posts on the Gunslinger for a while, here are a few needed changes, some of which repeat above comments.
1. Cut weaponly cost, I can arm a squad of archers for the cost of 1 gunslinger getting replacement gunpowder. Bullets should cost LESS than sling ammo, slugs are smaller than the sling bullets and equally difficult to make from the same material.
2. Increase reload time. The theme I think you have for firearms is more in the vein of 3 Musketeers or Pirates. These weapons took longer than 6 seconds (1 second with rapid reload) to rearm. Pick a theme and stick with it, mixing them make things confusing.
3. Scale damage with class levels. Use the method already in play for the Alchemist and his bombs. Higher levels = higher accuracy = higher damage. Gunslinger Wayne should kill more often than the schoolmarm. While thy could both hit at close range, Wayneis more likely to hit a vital spot. (Remember: Criticals should not multiply the additional damage from class, just base damage).
4. Just plain remove the touch AC mechanic of guns entirely. It doesn't fit and breaks things a gunslinger should get, like Deadly Aim. Other systems with guns worked well w/o implementing rules like this. (Iron Kingdoms & DragonStar for example)
Accuracy is function of the shooter, I think that's taken care off in the attack bonus and applicable modifier. Armor, in most instances in Pathfinder (Armor Mastery being the exception) doesn't have a damage reduction modifier. You either hit or do not. If you hit, you roll damage. I agree,if you want to illustrate the destructive power of a gun, make the gun damage more effective in the hands of a gunslinger. He or she is just better at it than most, finding the weakspots or maybe, its reflective of that "mystical way of the gun." The touch AC isn't quite right.
Recent threads in Gunslinger Discussion: Round 1
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