Builds

[Abraham spalding]

Alright people post some up and see what we can come up with:

Currently I'm looking at three different ways to go about using the gunslinger.

1. Switch hitter. Use the fire arm as I'm closing to set a status effect in place (at level 7ish) then use melee attacks when they close. Firearm hand gets a buckler so it's not useless when they do so.

2. Extra grit, lightning reload, and stacking on as much damage as possible. This one is giving me trouble -- I can't seem to get enough feats to get the ranged feats I need and to add the damage I need. Without being able to really get a full attack consistently it is really hard to keep the DPR up.

3. Lots of guns. If it wasn't for the cost this one would work -- I'm really seeing an unseen servant/butler coming along so. Leadership might be a must just to keep guns reloaded.

[Realmwalker]

By all means this is not optimized but I thought it fit the Idea I wanted to try. Rapid Reload, and Quick Clear were very important when it played out. so they were good choices.

Django CR 1/2
XP: 200
NG Medium Human Gunslinger 1
Init: +3 Senses: Perception +6
DEFENSE
AC 17, touch 13, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +3 Dex, +0 size)
hp 11 (1d10+1)
Fort +1 , Ref +5 , Will +2
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee
Short Sword: +1 1d6 19-20 x2 P
Ranged
2 Pistols: +4 1d8 x4 rng 20ft Cap 1 B or P
STATISTICS
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 12
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 13
Feats
Rapid Reload (Combat): The time required for you to reload your one-handed firearm is reduced to a move action Reloading a one-handed firearm still provokes attacks of opportunity.

Secret Stash Deed (Grit): Spend 1 grit point to recover 3 bullets and 3 doses of black powder from some hidden stash on your person that you had, until now, forgotten about.

Skills: Craft: Alchemy 1 (+6), Craft: Gunsmith 1 (+6), Intimidate 1 (+5),
Knowledge: Local 1 (+6), Perception 1 (+6), Slieght or Hand 1 (+4)

Languages: Common, Elven, Halfling

Traits
Killer (Combat): You deal additional damage equal to your weapon’s critical hit modifier when you score a successful critical hit with a weapon; this additional damage is added to the final total, and is not multiplied by the critical hit multiple itself. This extra damage is a trait bonus.
Rich Parents (Social): Your starting cash increases to 900 gp.

Racial Traits
+1 skill per level; +1 feat at first level

Class Abilities
Fire Arm: Gain 2 Pistols for free.
Grit Total Pool 2 points
Deeds
Quick Clear (Ex): At 1st level, as a standard action, a gunslinger can remove the broken condition from a single firearm she is currently wielding, as long as that condition was gained by a firearm misfire. This deed costs 1 grit point to perform.

[Kierato]

20 point buy, I normally eschew humans for more interesting races, but it seemed appropriate here.
Human Gunslinger/7
Str 10
Dex 20
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 10
HP 57
AC 22 (+5 Dex, +6 Armor, +1 Def)
Fort +7
Ref +11
Will +5 (+7 vs fear)
Init +5

+1 Distance Pistol +15/+10 to hit; 1d8+8 damage; X4 Crit; 40 ft. range
Vital Strike +15 to hit; 2d8+8 damage; X4 crit; 40 ft range

Feats: Weapon Focus (Pistol), Rapid Reload (Pistol), Point Blank Shot, Weapon Specialization (Pistol), Precise Shot, Vital Strike
Skills: Acrobatics +15, Craft (Gunsmith) +10, Craft (Alchemy) +10, Climb +6, Swim +7
Equipment: Belt of Dex +2, Mithral Chain Shirt +2, +1 Distance Pistol, +1 Ring of Protection, +1 Cloak of Resistance, assorted bullets and black powder

[Dirlaise]

Both of these builds are suffering from encumbrance. Assuming that bullets weigh the same as sling bullets (meaning that at level 1 you're toting 25 pounds of ammunition), two pistols (8 pounds) or a musket (9 pounds), you're starting out at either 33 or 34 pounds of equipment. That is, of course, assuming that black powder is inexplicably weightless (since if it weighs even 1 pound per 50 doses, no matter what choices you make with your free weapons you're going to start out encumbered at 10 Str). Smaller characters would need a 13 Str just to hold their starting equipment - and if they take a musket they'll still be encumbered (which generally means a 15 Str with a -2 racial penalty).

[BobChuck]

hehehe, that is a very good point. Encumbrance is going to be a problem. Rifle = 9 pounds, 50 bullets = 25 pounds, and 50 gunpowder has to be at least 5-10 pounds, so conservatively 45+ pounds, not counting any other gear?

Yes, definitely a problem.

[Fnipernackle]

Revolvers really need to be reprinted for this class alone. That's my opinion.

[Ushoran]

Abraham spalding wrote:

2. Extra grit, lightning reload, and stacking on as much damage as possible. This one is giving me trouble -- I can't seem to get enough feats to get the ranged feats I need and to add the damage I need. Without being able to really get a full attack consistently it is really hard to keep the DPR up.

I think there is a way to make a full attack with your gun by level 11 using 3 feats :

- Rapid reload
- Lightning Reload
- Signature Grit (Lightning Reload) to reduce the cost of lightning reload by 1.

For a Human Gunslinger, I would see something like this :
lvl 1 : Rapid reload, Point blank shot
lvl 3 : Precise Shot
Lvl 4 : Deadly Aim
Lvl 5 : Lightning Reload
Lvl 7 : Weapon focus (Gun)
Lvl 8 : Weapon Specialization (Gun)
Lvl 9 : Improved Weapon focus (Gun)
Lvl 11 : Signature Grit (Lightning Reload)

Also, as the deeds are written, I think you can do all of them, you don't have to chose which one your character can or cannot do.

[Thomas LeBlanc]

I really want to make a dwarf paladin (undead scourge)/gunslinger. Heavy armor, warhammer, heavy shield, and musket. Rapid reload, lightning reload, blind fight, ricochet shot and quick draw for the early feats. Only take 4 levels of gunslinger (to get gunslinger initiative and first feat) and then rest of the levels paladin. Divine Bond with the musket.

[voska66]

I'm thinking of Gun Slinger modeled after Christian Bales character in equilibrium. Using Pistol whipping, deft shootist Grit, and Lightning reload. Really burns through the Grit though. Was looking at the Duelist too and that looks possible as it doesn't specify using a melee weapon from what I can tell, just has to piecing which a shot is. Using parry and riposte you could take a shot, use your second attack to parry then repost with a pistol whip. I'm going to have stat up character like this to see if it works.

[Richard Leonhart]

Ushoran, for the full-round action double wielder, I had the same idea at pretty much the same time.

However I've seen a problem meanwhile.
While shooting 6-8 bullets, they each cost 11 gold.
With a fight lasting 10 rounds you will give 660 gold per fight.

This ability will be way too expensive.
Only reason in might fly is because you can only start at lvl 11, and by then the wizard could fabricate and create the bullets for much less money. (altough I doubt that is possible, because else the bullets wouldn't be that expensive)

[Ushoran]

Richard Leonhart wrote:

Ushoran, for the full-round action double wielder, I had the same idea at pretty much the same time.

However I've seen a problem meanwhile.
While shooting 6-8 bullets, they each cost 11 gold.
With a fight lasting 10 rounds you will give 660 gold per fight.

This ability will be way too expensive.
Only reason in might fly is because you can only start at lvl 11, and by then the wizard could fabricate and create the bullets for much less money. (altough I doubt that is possible, because else the bullets wouldn't be that expensive)

By lvl 11 you only shot 3 times not 6 or 8 so the cost of a 10 rounds fight is more or less 330 gp. Craft can reduce the cost to 1/3 of that, about 110gp. And adding the feat to recover free ammos reduce the cost a little more. Still, ammos are a real money sink even without the iterative attacks and at low level, damage is really bad.

Running the numbers for my gunslinger with a dex of 18 from lvl 1 to lvl 11 :

lvl 1 : +6, 1D8+1 (5.5 average)
lvl 3 : +8, 1D8+1
Lvl 4 : +9, 1D8+6 (Assuming a +2 dex belt and a pistol +1, 10.5 average)
Lvl 5 : +10, 1D8+11 (15.5 average)
Lvl 7 : +14/+9 1D8+12 (Full attack for 1 grit and pistol +2, 16.5 average for a single attack, 33 when full attacking)
Lvl 8 : +16/+11 1D8+18 (20 in dex, +4 belt, 22.5/45)
Lvl 9 : +17/+12 1D8+18
Lvl 11 : +20/+15/+10 1D8+19 (Free full attack, +3 pistol, 23.5/70.5)
Lvl 12 : +19/+19/+14/+9 1D8+21 (Rapid shot, improved weapon specialization, 25.5/102)

As he is likely to target touch AC a mere +10 will also always hit except on 1. Still 22.5 average damage by level 9 is low and the gap with the damage output of the level 11 is really huge.

[wraithstrike]

I will admit I only skimmed the pdf, and this was ignored in another thread but doesn't the class give status affects with no save?

[Ushoran]

wraithstrike wrote:

I will admit I only skimmed the pdf, and this was ignored in another thread but doesn't the class give status affects with no save?

At level 7 for 1 grit it can automaticaly disarm, knock prone or confuse for 1 round somebody if he hit.

At level 11 for 1 grit he inflict bleed damage.

At level 19 for 1 grit he can automaticaly stun on a critical hit.

At level 5, if he miss, he can entangle his target for 1 greet

At level 15, if he miss, for 1 grit his target is flat footed until his next turn.

As his grit is limited to his wisdom bonus, it's not really as good as it seems.

[spalding]

So I'm looking at something new for tonight's playtest.

I'm going to take the catch off guard and improvised weapon mastery feats to use the guns in melee. The level 3 Deed is nice but I can't rely on it -- with power attack and catch off guard I think I can keep my melee damage high enough to make it an option.

That will turn the guy into a switch hitter, which should do ok.

The sad thing is when I sat down and tried such with both a ranger and a fighter they just did so much better with firearms it was depressing.

[Kyle Linger]

So I've been looking over this class, and I'm excited as all get-out to try it, but there's one thing that's been bugging me.

The Deadly Aim feat, which really amounts to Power Attack at range. Is it usable with guns? RAW it isn't, because it can't be used with touch attacks, but when the core book/SRD were written guns didn't exist, and it's pretty obvious that it's referring to spells. It would certainly make sense for it to be usable, though.

Whether it's usable or not, I'll hopefully be playtesting the class soon, and will report back with my findings.

EDIT: Additionally, since Gunslinger is a new Fighter archetype, doesn't that mean it can take Weapon Specialization, and therefore Point Blank Master? Shooting your pistols in melee would be pretty boss.

[Fnipernackle]

Kyle Linger wrote:

So I've been looking over this class, and I'm excited as all get-out to try it, but there's one thing that's been bugging me.

The Deadly Aim feat, which really amounts to Power Attack at range. Is it usable with guns? RAW it isn't, because it can't be used with touch attacks, but when the core book/SRD were written guns didn't exist, and it's pretty obvious that it's referring to spells. It would certainly make sense for it to be usable, though.

Whether it's usable or not, I'll hopefully be playtesting the class soon, and will report back with my findings.

EDIT: Additionally, since Gunslinger is a new Fighter archetype, doesn't that mean it can take Weapon Specialization, and therefore Point Blank Master? Shooting your pistols in melee would be pretty boss.

guns arent ranged touch attacks. it is worded that they target the targets touch ac, not that they are a touch attack. its worded that way for a reason. and they only target the touch ac when fired at close range. you need to spend point or a feat (one of the two i cant remember which) to target touch ac any farther than close range.

[Diodric]

voska66 wrote:

I'm thinking of Gun Slinger modeled after Christian Bales character in equilibrium. Using Pistol whipping, deft shootist Grit, and Lightning reload. Really burns through the Grit though. Was looking at the Duelist too and that looks possible as it doesn't specify using a melee weapon from what I can tell, just has to piecing which a shot is. Using parry and riposte you could take a shot, use your second attack to parry then repost with a pistol whip. I'm going to have stat up character like this to see if it works.

Yeah I asked that same thing about the duelist a while back, here was the thread: Here.

[Mark Garringer]

Here is a Gunslinger I plan to play in Pathfinder Society this weekend

Kristof
NG Medium Human Gunslinger 1
Init: +3 Senses: Perception +7
DEFENSE
AC 17, touch 13, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +3 Dex, +0 size)
hp 10 (1d10)
Fort +0 , Ref +5 , Will +2
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee
Battle Axe: +3 1d8+2 20 x3 S
Warhammer: +3 1d8+2 20 x3 B
Ranged
2 Pistols: +5 1d8 x4 rng 20ft Cap 1 B or P
3 Throwing Axe: +5 1d6+2 x2 rng 10ft S
STATISTICS
Str 14, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 10
Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 16
Feats
Point Blank Shot: +1 to ranged attacks inside 30'

Secret Stash Deed (Grit): Spend 1 grit point to recover 3 bullets and 3 doses of black powder from some hidden stash on your person that you had, until now, forgotten about.

Skills: Acrobatics (+7), Heal (+6), Knowledge: Local (+6), Perception (+6), Sleight of Hand (+8)
Languages: Common, Osiriani, Polyglot

Traits
Antiquities Smuggler: Sleight of Hand is a class skill, +1 trait bonus.
Tomb Raider: Perception is a class skill, +1 trait bonus.

Racial Traits
+1 skill per level; +1 feat at first level

Class Abilities
Fire Arm: Gain 2 Pistols for free.
Grit Total Pool 3 points

[Fnipernackle]

you shouldnt need any other ranged weapons, not should you need melee weapons (but it is nice to have 1). youre a GUNSLINGER! but thats not your fault, thats just how the playtest class was presented. good luck this weekend. hope you can find some major flaws and let the good people at Paizo know.

[Jon Otaguro 428]

Gunslinger melee build:

NG Medium Human Gunslinger 1
Init: +2 Senses: Perception +1
DEFENSE
AC 18, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+6 armor, +2 Dex, +0 size)
hp 13 (1d10)
Fort +2 , Ref +4 , Will 0
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft.
Melee
Falcata: +5 1d8+9 19-20 x3 S

Ranged
2 Pistols: +3 1d8 x4 rng 20ft Cap 1 B or P
STATISTICS
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +1; CMB +6; CMD 17
Feats
Power Attack

Secret Stash Deed (Grit): Spend 1 grit point to recover 3 bullets and 3 doses of black powder from some hidden stash on your person that you had, until now, forgotten about.

Skills:

Traits
Heirloom Weapon - Falcata

Class Abilities
Fire Arm: Gain 2 Pistols for free.
Grit Total Pool 1 points

Basically acts like a fighter without feats and weapon training. He gets to use his pistols as a replacement to these feats, weapon training and armor training. Never reload in combat and save grit to get free bullets and powder. Since he never plans on buying ammo, he can fire his gun 3 times per day.

[Fnipernackle]

Jon Otaguro 428 wrote:

Gunslinger melee build:

NG Medium Human Gunslinger 1
Init: +2 Senses: Perception +1
DEFENSE
AC 18, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+6 armor, +2 Dex, +0 size)
hp 13 (1d10)
Fort +2 , Ref +4 , Will 0
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft.
Melee
Falcata: +5 1d8+9 19-20 x3 S

Ranged
2 Pistols: +3 1d8 x4 rng 20ft Cap 1 B or P
STATISTICS
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +1; CMB +6; CMD 17
Feats
Power Attack

Secret Stash Deed (Grit): Spend 1 grit point to recover 3 bullets and 3 doses of black powder from some hidden stash on your person that you had, until now, forgotten about.

Skills:

Traits
Heirloom Weapon - Falcata

Class Abilities
Fire Arm: Gain 2 Pistols for free.
Grit Total Pool 1 points

Basically acts like a fighter without feats and weapon training. He gets to use his pistols as a replacement to these feats, weapon training and armor training. Never reload in combat and save grit to get free bullets and powder. Since he never plans on buying ammo, he can fire his gun 3 times per day.

might as well just play a fighter. this is a GUNSLINGER. you should be "slinging" bullets, not hitting things with a sword.

[Realmwalker]

Jon Otaguro 428 wrote:

Gunslinger melee build:

NG Medium Human Gunslinger 1
Init: +2 Senses: Perception +1
DEFENSE
AC 18, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+6 armor, +2 Dex, +0 size)
hp 13 (1d10)
Fort +2 , Ref +4 , Will 0
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft.
Melee
Falcata: +5 1d8+9 19-20 x3 S

Ranged
2 Pistols: +3 1d8 x4 rng 20ft Cap 1 B or P
STATISTICS
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +1; CMB +6; CMD 17
Feats
Power Attack

Secret Stash Deed (Grit): Spend 1 grit point to recover 3 bullets and 3 doses of black powder from some hidden stash on your person that you had, until now, forgotten about.

Skills:

Traits
Heirloom Weapon - Falcata

Class Abilities
Fire Arm: Gain 2 Pistols for free.
Grit Total Pool 1 points

Basically acts like a fighter without feats and weapon training. He gets to use his pistols as a replacement to these feats, weapon training and armor training. Never reload in combat and save grit to get free bullets and powder. Since he never plans on buying ammo, he can fire his gun 3 times per day.

In this case wouldn't you be better off making it a fighter and taking the Grit Feats?

[Ushoran]

Here is a level 11, 15 points build for a pistol user.

Build:

Clung Northbog
CG Medium Human Gunslinger 11
Init : +10 Senses : +18

DEFENSE
AC 26, Touch 17, Flat-footed 20 (+7 armor, +6 Dex, +0 size, +2 Shield, +1 Deflection)
hp 81 (11d10+11)
Fort +7, Ref +15, Will +6 (+3 against fear effects)

OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee
MWk Longsword : +13/+8/+3 1d8+1 19-20 x2 S
Ranged
Pistol +3 : +23/+18/+13 1d8+20 20 x4 P/B
Reliable Pistol +1 : +21/+16/+11 1d8+18 20x4 P/B

STATISTICS
Str 12, Dex 26, Con 12, Wis 16, Int 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +11; CMB +12; CMD 30
Feats
Rapid reload, Point blank shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim, Lightning Reload, Weapon focus (Pistol), Weapon Specialization (Pistol), Improved Weapon focus (Pistol), Signature Grit (Lightning Reload)

Special Abilities
Deeds, firearm, grit (3) [Leap for Cover, Deadeye, Quick Clear, Pistol-whip, Gunslinger Initiative, Covering Shot, Targeting, Bleeding Wound, Utility Shot, Lightning Reload], Gun training (Pistol), Gun training (Musket)

SKILLS
Acrobatics +22, Craft (Gunsmith) +15, Perception +18, Knowledge (Local) +7, Swim +8, Bluff +5

EQUIPEMENT
Belt of incredible dexterity +6, Headband of inspired wisdom +2, Bag of Holding type I (For the bullets and black powder), Pistol +3, Reliable Pistol +1,
200 bullets and doses of black powder , Mithril chain shirt +3, Bucker +1 Ring of Protection +1

Traits :
Rich parents, Tomb Raider

I took into account the fact that pistol and Deadly Aim are probably intented to work together. Damage is calculated with Deadly Aim and Point Blank shot.

Damage should be OK, he can do 3D8+60 damage / rounds and he can do a full attack with is gun. But, I'm not sure if he can survive long enough to be level 11, for the first 4 levels damage will be very low, something like 1D8+3, then a little boost at level 5 with gun training, but 1D8+10 /round isn't much and he cannot do a full attack before level 11, that really crippling, without take into account the fact that ammos cost a lot of money and pistols can explode in your hands.

The build as 2 pistols, in case the first one misfire, he use the second one, if the second one misfire, he repair it with quick clear so, no guns should ever explode in his hands. Save are ok but not exceptionnal. What do you think ?

[Mark Garringer]

Fnipernackle wrote:

you shouldnt need any other ranged weapons, not should you need melee weapons (but it is nice to have 1). youre a GUNSLINGER! but thats not your fault, thats just how the playtest class was presented. good luck this weekend. hope you can find some major flaws and let the good people at Paizo know.

I really struggled with the build in terms of trying to flush out more of the new mechanics over what I thought would ultimately be a less 1 dimensional, 1 trick-pony. By not spending my other feat on rapid reload (which I still may swap out), I accept the idea that he's probably going to go bang, bang and then switch to something else. Since he's going to need to be close-ish in the first place throwing axes seemed like a good enough choice. So a few more tosses inside 30' and presto, it's point blank for my other feat :) Since I've got the throwing axes then a battle axe for my melee weapon just seemed natural. I haven't wielded a battle axe in probably 20 years on a character. There is an Andoran trait that gives +2 to confirm critical with axes that I wanted to work in, but Perception should be a class skill. I may trade Sleigh as a class skill for it since I'm not sure the overall usefulness for PFS play.

Secret Stash will hopefully get me 9 shots back! We shall see how it plays!! I'm very excited!

[Fnipernackle]

Mark Garringer wrote:

Fnipernackle wrote:

you shouldnt need any other ranged weapons, not should you need melee weapons (but it is nice to have 1). youre a GUNSLINGER! but thats not your fault, thats just how the playtest class was presented. good luck this weekend. hope you can find some major flaws and let the good people at Paizo know.

I really struggled with the build in terms of trying to flush out more of the new mechanics over what I thought would ultimately be a less 1 dimensional, 1 trick-pony. By not spending my other feat on rapid reload (which I still may swap out), I accept the idea that he's probably going to go bang, bang and then switch to something else. Since he's going to need to be close-ish in the first place throwing axes seemed like a good enough choice. So a few more tosses inside 30' and presto, it's point blank for my other feat :) Since I've got the throwing axes then a battle axe for my melee weapon just seemed natural. I haven't wielded a battle axe in probably 20 years on a character. There is an Andoran trait that gives +2 to confirm critical with axes that I wanted to work in, but Perception should be a class skill. I may trade Sleigh as a class skill for it since I'm not sure the overall usefulness for PFS play.

Secret Stash will hopefully get me 9 shots back! We shall see how it plays!! I'm very excited!

the biggest problem with this type of build though is that all of your class abilities are for using you guns, and if you switch to using melee weapons, many of those abilities become inert.

[Mark Garringer]

Fnipernackle wrote:

the biggest problem with this type of build though is that all of your class abilities are for using you guns, and if you switch to using melee weapons, many of those abilities become inert.

At 1st level my class abilities are I have guns and can use some grit which this build does :) I may still switch in Rapid Reload and try standing there and shooting stuff more...