So, isn't it a case of the term "theft" being antiquated. If I "robbed" some investment fund by hacking into their accounts and taking all the money they'd in it, it also wouldn't be theft, because that money doesn't exist in the real world, only in the virtual world?
But you took money. With a PDF many will never buy the PDF, you have not lost the PDF so it is not the same thing. You can argue that you lost 2 sells for every 50 pirate copies floating around or something, but you lost nothing. You still have the product to sell.
Now if the "hacker" got all your PDF 's and made it as to you no longer had them and could not sell them at all, yeah he stole it. This is not the case.
So, isn't it a case of the term "theft" being antiquated. If I "robbed" some investment fund by hacking into their accounts and taking all the money they'd in it, it also wouldn't be theft, because that money doesn't exist in the real world, only in the virtual world?
Incorrect.
That would still theft, because - due to all the checks and balances in the monetary system - the money that was stolen can't be replenished. One cannot simply "create" money, virtual or otherwise, within a stable economic system.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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So, isn't it a case of the term "theft" being antiquated. If I "robbed" some investment fund by hacking into their accounts and taking all the money they'd in it, it also wouldn't be theft, because that money doesn't exist in the real world, only in the virtual world?Incorrect.
That would still theft, because - due to all the checks and balances in the monetary system - the money that was stolen can't be replenished. One cannot simply "create" money, virtual or otherwise, within a stable economic system.
And when one 'pirates' a PDF, they increase the supply, and thus reduce the demand and destabalize the system. To say you didn't steal anything because you copied it is wrong. If I copy the Mona Lisa and take the original, why I didn't steal it, I just made a copy.
If I copy the Mona Lisa and take the original, why I didn't steal it, I just made a copy.
If you instead copy the Mona Lisa and leave the original where it is, you didn't steal anything. You still did something illegal, but it wasn't an actual act of stealing.
By the way, since it is moderately related: Does the fair-use clause allow someone to create their own PDF copy (for personal use) of a physical book they own?
Chief Technical Officer
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By the way, since it is moderately related: Does the fair-use clause allow someone to create their own PDF copy (for personal use) of a physical book they own?
Many will be surprised by this, but no, it doesn't. Copyright law *does* allow for making archive copies of computer programs, but that currently does not extend to other copyrighted works, including those distributed via digital media.
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Chief Technical Officer
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By the way, in case you're wondering about the potential risks involved with the circulation of illegal PDFs, here's what the U.S. Copyright Office has to say:
Uploading or downloading works protected by copyright without the authority of the copyright owner is an infringement of the copyright owner's exclusive rights of reproduction and/or distribution. Anyone found to have infringed a copyrighted work may be liable for statutory damages up to $30,000 for each work infringed and, if willful infringement is proven by the copyright owner, that amount may be increased up to $150,000 for each work infringed. In addition, an infringer of a work may also be liable for the attorney's fees incurred by the copyright owner to enforce his or her rights.
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Not explicitly related to the topic on hand because it is focused on a different medium, but there is a group of video game designers and artists that do a weekly video series on topics that are important to their industry and try and open discussions on how to make it better. Last weeks video was on piracy, and while its focus was more on games I think they did a really good job talking about both sides of the issue.
Many will be surprised by this, but no, it doesn't. Copyright law *does* allow for making archive copies of computer programs, but that currently does not extend to other copyrighted works, including those distributed via digital media.By the way, since it is moderately related: Does the fair-use clause allow someone to create their own PDF copy (for personal use) of a physical book they own?
There is, however, precedent for time-shifting and format-shifting, for which a legal argument could conceivably be made and applied to print media.
I'm in the camp that this would be allowed, given that precedent. I'd imagine that many publishers are in the opposing camp. Until it's hammered out in court, or legislation specifically addressing it has been passed, I'm sure people will continue to disagree.
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And no response to my question, Elfgasm? You must care enough that you won't say where you play, as you know you if they were aware of your opinion, you won't be welcome in the store. It's people like you that give gamers a bad reputation. It's too bad you feel the need to even bother to share your warped views.Hmm...I guess I just really don't care to police someone's activity. Doe that count as "advocating" illegal activities? If a guy told me he stole his book from the LGS we're playing at, I wouldn't do or say anything simply because I don't care.Seriously? How bizarre...
Out of curiosity, what store do you play at?
Sorry, I have had a busy weekend. I most commonly play at Great Escape Games in Sacramento. 1250 Howe Avenue #3A, Sacramento, CA 95825.(916) 927-0810. There's the address and number if you'd like to contact them and let them know that they have players there that don't care if other people steal from them. *rolleyes*
I've never stolen a thing in my life (physically or by downloading illegally) and I don't feel I will ever need to. That still doesn't mean that I have a moral obligation to police the activities of others. That's what store workers, police, etc are for. If you'd like to tout your ethical more as higher than mine, go for it - it doesn't change the fact that by doing nothing I am in fact not doing anything wrong or illegal. High horse and all that, have fun with it.
The other PDF thread reminded me to post this.
Recently a player at one of my PFS tables showed me a PDF of a book that he had gotten from a friend out west (we're in Arkansas). The PDF was of course legally neither his or his friend's. Now this player is new to roleplaying so I can believe that he was either completely ignorant about PDF piracy or just testing the waters. I gave him the hard line, i.e. "This is a stolen book, you need to buy your own copy, you can't use anything from that book at my table or that of any other PFS GM until you have your own copy and you should delete the PDF." This player assured me that he would comply and I intend to monitor him to ensure it happens, or he'll find himself without a table to play at. I am happy with the situation's resolution as far as this player is concerned.
My issue, and where I would like advice, is how to approach the issue of someone's watermarked PDF being distributed in the first place. I didn't write down the original owner's info, but I am confident that I could get it with little or no fuss. Unfortunately I don't know the circumstances surrounding his PDF being pirated and don't want to assume the worst.
I could just email him and let him know what is going on. Or I could just turn the info over. The latter option seems the most likely and effective. What do the paizonians think?
Tam
Personally I don't think it's a GM's business to poke into his players laptops and tell them what they can and cannot use. Actually, the "investigating" into his personal belongings is in and of itself illegal. Are you going to also find out if the clothes he wears or the car he drives to get to your gaming sessions is legitly purchased as well?
I am not for piracy but I am against a 3rd party company (or 1st party!) spying on what business I perform on my computer. It should be just as illegal as someone walking around me with a camera and entering my home with it without either permission or some sort of warrant. No one sticks a camera in my house to see what I am doing without a warrant, the same goes for the way someone chooses to use the Internet.
Actually, if you allow someone who's stealing books or using illegal downloads to play in your games, a case could be made that you "aid or abet the crime". But whether anyone would make the case is a different story.
Some states may differ, but there's no legal requirement to report a crime. Aiding and abetting is actively doing something, not passively sitting back and ignoring it.
Now then, if you're specifically questioned about a felony you witnessed, and you lie about it or conceal it, I believe you can be charged misprision.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I agree, and I don't think anyone is disputing that. I take issue with the claim that "for every sale made due to a illicit copy, there's 100 lost", or the insinuation thereof.I get the feeling that most people who pirate would rather go without than have to pay for it. So the "lost sales" argument isn't as convincing to me as it could be. Of course, that feeling is only an opinion, not a backed up fact, so take it for what it is worth.I share a similar opinion, and that's why I don't make claims like I've taken issue with.
The fact is, there really is no data to back up either side of the argument, and there's no way to get that data.
The best study I'm aware of is "The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales: An Empirical Analysis," a 2004 study (link to PDF). This study was focused on music downloads. Interestingly, they concluded that the impact of file sharing on sales of heavily marketed "superstar" albums is likely to be slightly positive, while it has a slight negative effect for less popular artists.
Actually, if you allow someone who's stealing books or using illegal downloads to play in your games, a case could be made that you "aid or abet the crime". But whether anyone would make the case is a different story.Some states may differ, but there's no legal requirement to report a crime. Aiding and abetting is actively doing something, not passively sitting back and ignoring it.
Now then, if you're specifically questioned about a felony you witnessed, and you lie about it or conceal it, I believe you can be charged misprision.
Exactly. Not only that, but we're not even talking about a crime occurring currently.
Exactly. Not only that, but we're not even talking about a crime occurring currently.Actually, if you allow someone who's stealing books or using illegal downloads to play in your games, a case could be made that you "aid or abet the crime". But whether anyone would make the case is a different story.Some states may differ, but there's no legal requirement to report a crime. Aiding and abetting is actively doing something, not passively sitting back and ignoring it.
Now then, if you're specifically questioned about a felony you witnessed, and you lie about it or conceal it, I believe you can be charged misprision.
I will say, though, it's rather asinine to NOT report a crime, especially at a business you patronize. That's just my opinion. You're entitled to yours, and that's just fine.
The best study I'm aware of is "The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales: An Empirical Analysis," a 2004 study (link to PDF). This study was focused on music downloads. Interestingly, they concluded that the impact of file sharing on sales of heavily marketed "superstar" albums is likely to be slightly positive, while it has a slight negative effect for less popular artists.
Thank you, Vic!
I appreciate the open discourse, and the absence of hyperbole - in fact, the complete opposite, especially with you posting this.
I've been waffling on adding the maps to my subs, and this just helps to push me over the line. I've just added it.
Again, thank you.
Many will be surprised by this, but no, it doesn't. Copyright law *does* allow for making archive copies of computer programs, but that currently does not extend to other copyrighted works, including those distributed via digital media.By the way, since it is moderately related: Does the fair-use clause allow someone to create their own PDF copy (for personal use) of a physical book they own?
I don't think this would hold up in court. For years you have been able to legally make back-up copies of music that you legally obtained. The same goes for video tapes and, in a case just decided in the past few months, dvds now as well, so long as you legally obtained the original. For your personal use, you can legally photocopy books and you can legally print out pdf's, again for personal use, so I do not see how making a pdf for personal use of a physical book could not be legal also. Corporations can say whatever they want and try to enforce whatever they want, look how long the movies companies fought the dvd decision, but it seems the courts tend to side with the consumer, so long as it is only for personal use and not for any kind of redistribution.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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And no response to my question, Elfgasm? You must care enough that you won't say where you play, as you know you if they were aware of your opinion, you won't be welcome in the store. It's people like you that give gamers a bad reputation. It's too bad you feel the need to even bother to share your warped views.Hmm...I guess I just really don't care to police someone's activity. Doe that count as "advocating" illegal activities? If a guy told me he stole his book from the LGS we're playing at, I wouldn't do or say anything simply because I don't care.Seriously? How bizarre...
Out of curiosity, what store do you play at?
Sorry, I have had a busy weekend. I most commonly play at Great Escape Games in Sacramento. 1250 Howe Avenue #3A, Sacramento, CA 95825.(916) 927-0810. There's the address and number if you'd like to contact them and let them know that they have players there that don't care if other people steal from them. *rolleyes*
I've never stolen a thing in my life (physically or by downloading illegally) and I don't feel I will ever need to. That still doesn't mean that I have a moral obligation to police the activities of others. That's what store workers, police, etc are for. If you'd like to tout your ethical more as higher than mine, go for it - it doesn't change the fact that by doing nothing I am in fact not doing anything wrong or illegal. High horse and all that, have fun with it.
Will do, Anthony. Thanks!
Will do, Anthony. Thanks!
It's funny. I would be less than thrilled if my patrons didn't report theft from my store were they aware of it, but I'd be even less thrilled at those who would tattle on patrons who didn't report theft.
The shopkeep-sycophants are one of the biggest turn-offs to stores.
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Many will be surprised by this, but no, it doesn't. Copyright law *does* allow for making archive copies of computer programs, but that currently does not extend to other copyrighted works, including those distributed via digital media.By the way, since it is moderately related: Does the fair-use clause allow someone to create their own PDF copy (for personal use) of a physical book they own?
FYI, this is not the case in (for instance) Austria, Germany and Switzerland. Here, you can make as many copies for personal, private, non-commercial use as you want – *including* for relatives and friends (though not for mere acquaintances or random strangers).
The situation in the rest of the European Union is a bit more complicated, as there is a directive which in principle provides for similar regulations in other member states, but does not force these other member states to actually comply with it.
Actually the primary threat to FLGS was and still is sites like Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and... Paizo itself. Gamers are happy enough to use the social services of game stores and then snub them by buying online for cheaper. WOTC never made a big thing of selling online until very recently and it's still not a major implementation for them.
Exactly my experience - the local gaming stores have lousy selection, and they hike their prices on the stuff they do have, so I can get the same books for substantial discount from an on-line retailer. Why pay $44 for the Pathfinder APG when I can get it on-line for $27? This doesn't even touch the issue of the lousy selection; with money being tight, most people won't shell out bucks sight-unseen for a book, so if they can't hold it and browse it, they won't buy it at all. And, right or wrong, this has influenced some of the instances of piracy that I have heard of. It's a vicious circle; the store won't carry it because it doesn't sell, and it doesn't sell because they won't carry it. So more people try to get it any way they can, fail to pay for their copy, sales fall further, gaming companies lose money, and the hobby keeps shrinking. It's a complicated issue, it applies to music as well as RPGs, and I don't pretend to know what the solution is.
And I think the term "theft" applies to physically removing something. If you lose something physical [such as the bank example], then I stole it. If I copied it without permission, that's not theft, it's piracy [under today's terminology]. It doesn't change things, just clarifies the terms used.
The best study I'm aware of is "The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales: An Empirical Analysis," a 2004 study (link to PDF). This study was focused on music downloads. Interestingly, they concluded that the impact of file sharing on sales of heavily marketed "superstar" albums is likely to be slightly positive, while it has a slight negative effect for less popular artists.I agree, and I don't think anyone is disputing that. I take issue with the claim that "for every sale made due to a illicit copy, there's 100 lost", or the insinuation thereof.I get the feeling that most people who pirate would rather go without than have to pay for it. So the "lost sales" argument isn't as convincing to me as it could be. Of course, that feeling is only an opinion, not a backed up fact, so take it for what it is worth.I share a similar opinion, and that's why I don't make claims like I've taken issue with.
The fact is, there really is no data to back up either side of the argument, and there's no way to get that data.
Could Pathfinder be described as "superstar" ? Since you're neck to neck with WotC on sales, I'd imagine that makes you a superstar, right?
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Personally I don't think it's a GM's business to poke into his players laptops and tell them what they can and cannot use. Actually, the "investigating" into his personal belongings is in and of itself illegal. Are you going to also find out if the clothes he wears or the car he drives to get to your gaming sessions is legitly purchased as well?
I am not for piracy but I am against a 3rd party company (or 1st party!) spying on what business I perform on my computer. It should be just as illegal as someone walking around me with a camera and entering my home with it without either permission or some sort of warrant. No one...
+1 Liberty!
I hate trying to read pdfs give me the real books anytime.
However I am guilty of buying over 90% of 3.xx material used thus not actually contributing to its success. Resale shops have to be a big drain on book companies profits also.
Also Amazon is terrible but so cheap.
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Personally I don't think it's a GM's business to poke into his players laptops and tell them what they can and cannot use. Actually, the "investigating" into his personal belongings is in and of itself illegal. Are you going to also find out if the clothes he wears or the car he drives to get to your gaming sessions is legitly purchased as well?
I am not for piracy but I am against a 3rd party company (or 1st party!) spying on what business I perform on my computer. It should be just as illegal as someone walking around me with a camera and entering my home with it without either permission or some sort of warrant. No one...
To be clear, I in no way poked into anything. This player showed me the pdf on his laptop, probably to test how accepting I was of pirated pdfs, and I explained the situation to him. I would never violate a player's privacy.
PFS though, has specific rules that players must follow for material in supplements to be available for their character's use. Unless it is in the "Core Assumption", the Core book, Bestiary I, and Seekers of Secrets, players are responsible for bringing their own copies of any books they want to use. These can be PDFs or hard copies. If they are PDFs they must be Paizo PDFs (Paizo is still the only place to get them legally that I am aware of). You can bet that if someone brought something that I was unfamiliar with to my table I would want to see it. If they were unwilling to show me, then we have a problem.
Tam
However I am guilty of buying over 90% of 3.xx material used thus not actually contributing to its success. Resale shops have to be a big drain on book companies profits also.
When the primary market doesn't have what you want, the secondary market can't affect the primary.
Further, secondary markets can actually benefit primary markets.
If a game store is stuck with a bunch of stagnant out-of-print material, or has a supply of used material, buying that material may not directly benefit publishers, since they've already been paid for it, but purchasing it provides the shop with funds that they can use to buy other merchandise.
Don't feel guilty about buying used. It's all part of the economic food chain.
Also Amazon is terrible but so cheap.
Amazon is fantastic, and I'd posit that, while not necessarily benefitting retail establishments, it's sales have allowed more people to get into the hobby than otherwise would be able, due to affordability of product.
I think the retail arm of the hobby is a critical link, but I have yet to see it really adapt to the current market.
It's theft... plain and simple. You're using digital media without license. Call it software theft or any other terms, you're using something you've not paid for without license.
No, it's not. Nobody has been deprived of an object they once had posession of prior to the incident.
"Using something you've not paid for without license" = reading a book or magazine at the bookstore. Stop stealing.
I think the retail arm of the hobby is a critical link, but I have yet to see it really adapt to the current market.How would you recommend that it do this?
Tam
A few:
I think price flexibility is a start. I'm not saying deep discounts, but full retail? It's impossible for the FLGS to compete with Amazon on price alone, but I think it's a factor that needs to be addressed.
Value-added services is another way, but for a lot of shops, that value-add is simply play-space. This doesn't appeal to me, nor does it appeal to a number of folks.
Participation in promotions would be great. In Oregon, two shops participated in Free RPG Day last year. Two.
WotC ran a promo a couple years ago where they were giving away a variety of things (including a Demonweb DDM booster, a SWM Clone War starter set, a hardcover of The Orc King, etc.) for purchasing $15 or more of merchandise. I know of one store (since closed) that sat on the product, and then sold it when the promo was over. I know of 3 other stores that failed to advertise at all, save for honoring the promo at the cash register.
Buying/Selling used merchandise. It seems that all of the best/biggest stores do this. Many stores that buy/sell used have flat said that they pay incredibly low rates for the used merchandise (like, $1/book or lower). The stores that buy M:tG pay horribly low for the cards that they resell for premium prices. Apply this to books.
And I think the term "theft" applies to physically removing something. If you lose something physical [such as the bank example], then I stole it. If I copied it without permission, that's not theft, it's piracy [under today's terminology]. It doesn't change things, just clarifies the terms used.It's theft... plain and simple. You're using digital media without license. Call it software theft or any other terms, you're using something you've not paid for without license.
my moral code requires me not giving a @#!?
i was raised with the rule "snitches get stitches"
sorry guys.
I'm sorry to hear that. I'm glad I've never had to meet you in real life. Why bother to look out for the people who provide you with the games you like.
"Snitches get stitches?" That's disgusting.
I think what it comes down to, for me at least, is this.
Call it piracy or stealing or being a jerk, it's all the same thing.
It's illegal. Plain and simple. It's also rude to the people who actually create the product. And its selfish...along the lines of I'm going to do whatever gives me entertainment no matter how it effects others.
And it's just wrong.
People can come up with all sorts of "it's free advertising" or "noboldy loses a sale" argements they want. It's just a way for them to excuse their rerehensible behavior.
The law says it. The publishers say it. The game store owners say it.
It's wrong.
People can come up with all sorts of "it's free advertising" or "noboldy loses a sale" argements they want. It's just a way for them to excuse their rerehensible behavior.
Try to build an argument, not a straw man. One can argue a position, and not be exemplifying that position.
The law says it. The publishers say it. The game store owners say it.
Where do game store owners come into this? They're not copyright holders. They're not selling PDFs.
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Chief Technical Officer
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The best study I'm aware of is "The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales: An Empirical Analysis," a 2004 study (link to PDF). This study was focused on music downloads. Interestingly, they concluded that the impact of file sharing on sales of heavily marketed "superstar" albums is likely to be slightly positive, while it has a slight negative effect for less popular artists.Could Pathfinder be described as "superstar" ? Since you're neck to neck with WotC on sales, I'd imagine that makes you a superstar, right?
I think trying to apply that study to Paizo's situation isn't likely to be terribly useful—there are far too many differences between the specific situations.
But I will tell you that if we really thought it were a good idea to make our PDFs freely available, we would do that. We think it's far better for us to offer them at a reasonable price, and so we do. We do offer a lot of the content of the RPG books for free in the online PRD, but if you want to have the Core Rulebook all pretty with pictures and such, we don't think $9.99 is too much to ask for a digital copy.
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But I will tell you that if we really thought it were a good idea to make our PDFs freely available, we would do that. We think it's far better for us to offer them at a reasonable price, and so we do. We do offer a lot of the content of the RPG books for free in the online PRD, but if you want to have the Core Rulebook all pretty with pictures and such, we don't think $9.99 is too much to ask for a digital copy.Well, getting the free PDF is part of the reason I get my Pathfinder stuff direct instead of from Amazon, despite their discounts. And being closer to the top of the shipping list doesn't hurt either.
Seconded.
This is only my anecdotal evidence, but I for one chose to be a subscriber specifically because of the free pdf offered with each book release. My gaming habits, and gaming group, demand both a hard copy and a pdf copy, and I would sure like to be able to afford a legit pdf copy so I can support my favorite gaming company.
I have a powerful dislike for hard copies now that I can carry all of my books on a flash drive and megabytes cost less than paper, but hard copies don't have batteries, and the rest of my group hates pdfs and refuse to bring laptops to the table, but will not buy hardcopies themselves. I'm glad paizo's subscription policy keeps up with technology and embraces it instead of fearing it. In my case, it has lead to paizo getting my direct business when I could have saved a buck ordering from amazon. The amazon price + pdf price from the site would have evened out. I might as well buy it all from Paizo and help them keep making things I really, really like.
my moral code requires me not giving a @#!?
i was raised with the rule "snitches get stitches"
sorry guys.
Yeah really what's up with all the junior G-men? "Someone has copied PDF who can I narc them out to?" Jesus.
Will do, Anthony. Thanks!
Holy crap he knows my name! How did he do that, I'm so in trouble! Oh wait..it's because I have it publicly displayed. I'd like to see you call them since I know the entire staff personally; what's more, I'd love to see a company refuse me entrance based upon an anonymous call from someone saying that Anthony, who goes to their store, will not report stolen merchandise. Lawsuit waiting to happen.
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Yeah really what's up with all the junior G-men? "Someone has copied PDF who can I narc them out to?" Jesus.my moral code requires me not giving a @#!?
i was raised with the rule "snitches get stitches"
sorry guys.
What's up with all the Junior G-Men?
Easy. If I saw you at my friend's house stealing a $20 from their wallet, you'd be sure I'd rat you out to my friend. Heck, if I saw you swiping $20 from an acquaintance, I'd rat you out just as fast. You pirating the PDFs from a group of folks I've met and I respect is no different than taking $20 out of their pocketbook while they're not looking, and thus, I'd rat you out to them as fast as I'd rat you out to anybody I know and respect.
The best study I'm aware of is "The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales: An Empirical Analysis," a 2004 study (link to PDF). This study was focused on music downloads. Interestingly, they concluded that the impact of file sharing on sales of heavily marketed "superstar" albums is likely to be slightly positive, while it has a slight negative effect for less popular artists.Could Pathfinder be described as "superstar" ? Since you're neck to neck with WotC on sales, I'd imagine that makes you a superstar, right?I think trying to apply that study to Paizo's situation isn't likely to be terribly useful—there are far too many differences between the specific situations.
But I will tell you that if we really thought it were a good idea to make our PDFs freely available, we would do that. We think it's far better for us to offer them at a reasonable price, and so we do. We do offer a lot of the content of the RPG books for free in the online PRD, but if you want to have the Core Rulebook all pretty with pictures and such, we don't think $9.99 is too much to ask for a digital copy.
I think you misundertood me. :D I never wanted to imply that if you're of a 'superstar' status, that you should distribute PDFs for free, I was merely curious if Pathfinder is the superstar in the RPG market. :)
Yeah really what's up with all the junior G-men? "Someone has copied PDF who can I narc them out to?" Jesus.my moral code requires me not giving a @#!?
i was raised with the rule "snitches get stitches"
sorry guys.
What's up with all the Junior G-Men?
Easy. If I saw you at my friend's house stealing a $20 from their wallet, you'd be sure I'd rat you out to my friend. Heck, if I saw you swiping $20 from an acquaintance, I'd rat you out just as fast. You pirating the PDFs from a group of folks I've met and I respect is no different than taking $20 out of their pocketbook while they're not looking, and thus, I'd rat you out to them as fast as I'd rat you out to anybody I know and respect.
"Hey officer my friend drove drunk yesterday! Just doing my civic duty in being a snitch! <smug grin>
"Hey officer my friend drove drunk yesterday! Just doing my civic duty in being a snitch! <smug grin>
I can't actually tell if you are being sarcastic or not. Drunk driving is one of those things that I wouldn't leave be and I can't imagine become compared to stealing $20.
Yeah really what's up with all the junior G-men? "Someone has copied PDF who can I narc them out to?" Jesus.my moral code requires me not giving a @#!?
i was raised with the rule "snitches get stitches"
sorry guys.
What's up with all the Junior G-Men?
Easy. If I saw you at my friend's house stealing a $20 from their wallet, you'd be sure I'd rat you out to my friend. Heck, if I saw you swiping $20 from an acquaintance, I'd rat you out just as fast. You pirating the PDFs from a group of folks I've met and I respect is no different than taking $20 out of their pocketbook while they're not looking, and thus, I'd rat you out to them as fast as I'd rat you out to anybody I know and respect.
"Hey officer my friend drove drunk yesterday! Just doing my civic duty in being a snitch! <smug grin>
Hey, if it were that easy to blow in a drunk driver, I'd love to see it done.
I'd do it in a second. If your friend can't be responsible enough to not drive when he drinks. Then he shouldn't be drinking.
It's not being a snitch. You make it sound like the person doing the "turning in" n the bad guy, instead of the guy who borke the law and endangered other people by driving when drunk.
Now, I'm not trying to link pirating PDFs to the seriousness of drunken driving. (I've never had a friend killed by a PDF. Can't say the same about someone who was driving drunk.)
But yeah. Why not turn in somoeone who is breaking the law? Or at least let them know that they're wrong and should "man up" and pay for what they get instead of ripping it off from someone else.
It's not the "snitches" who are the bad guys here.
I think the greater issue here (and one that has derailed the issue of PDF-pirating) is your insistence to apply the law as a good ethical guideline. The law is not always what is "right," "just," or "best." They are different in different areas and countries, and even change within any given area over time. If the "bad guy" in your viewpoint is someone who doesn't obey the "law," then that's the core of where the disagreement lies here.
My ethical guideline is that if my actions aren't physically harming someone, literally and directly, then I have no problem with them at all.
what's more, I'd love to see a company refuse me entrance based upon an anonymous call from someone saying that Anthony, who goes to their store, will not report stolen merchandise. Lawsuit waiting to happen.
On private property, proprietors can deny entry to anyone they like. Just like you don't have to let anyone in your house.
You should probably brush up on some law. It's hugely beneficial to be aware of your environment.