Half Elf APG Favored Class Alternatives Summoner question?


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Shadow Lodge

5 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Just making sure I got this right.

"Add +1/4 to the eidolon’s evolution pool" means 3pts=4pts, 6=8, 9=12 etc?

All the best,

Kerney


It means per level they get 1/4th of a point. So at 4th level, if they took the favored class bonus each level, they would get 1 extra point.


Answer: You add 1 point ever 4 times you take it. So if you take it 4 level you gain 1 point. You gain 1/4th of an evolution point each time you take it. You can not use just 1/4th a point however. So must wait till you have a whole point.

Shadow Lodge

seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Answer: You add 1 point ever 4 times you take it. So if you take it 4 level you gain 1 point. You gain 1/4th of an evolution point each time you take it. You can not use just 1/4th a point however. So must wait till you have a whole point.

Got it. Not as cool as I had hoped but still cool.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I'm not sure of any errata, but....
As per print rules, when u select summoner as favored class for 1/2elf, technically you qualify for the cumulative rule.You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!
Why does this not stack like the gents above stated? Well mainly because the paragraph talking about the stacking, the way they say to do it, specifically states these rules are for dice rolling. Summoners do not roll dice for evo points, therefor their stacking rules for this ability are in line with the example of the paladin for the accumulative.
I dont know if these rules have been erratad or not, they should be. By the print rules bard and barby, could have 400+ rds of song/rage per day. As well a a ranger with dodge to favored enemy at 1/3 lvls, after 18 lvls he cummulative adds 108 dodge bonus to AC vs favored enemy.
Also dont forget just because a summoner pet cant wear armor.. doesnt mean it cant wear bracer of defense like a monk :D

Sincerely,

Bruno "Leg Snapper" Scarpachi


Bruno Scarpachi wrote:

I'm not sure of any errata, but....

As per print rules, when u select summoner as favored class for 1/2elf, technically you qualify for the cumulative rule.You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!
Why does this not stack like the gents above stated? Well mainly because the paragraph talking about the stacking, the way they say to do it, specifically states these rules are for dice rolling. Summoners do not roll dice for evo points, therefor their stacking rules for this ability are in line with the example of the paladin for the accumulative.
I dont know if these rules have been erratad or not, they should be. By the print rules bard and barby, could have 400+ rds of song/rage per day. As well a a ranger with dodge to favored enemy at 1/3 lvls, after 18 lvls he cummulative adds 108 dodge bonus to AC vs favored enemy.
Also dont forget just because a summoner pet cant wear armor.. doesnt mean it cant wear bracer of defense like a monk :D

Sincerely,

Bruno "Leg Snapper" Scarpachi

*jaw drops* No, just no. This has nothing to do with the stacking rules.

1/4 per level. Period. 1/4 at 1st, 1/4 at 2nd, 1/4 at 3rd and 1/4 at 4th for a total of 1 extra evo at 4th level. totals 5 extra at 20th. The way you are thinking is just...wow.


*blinks* how in gods name can you come up with that calculation bruno?

Dark Archive

Bruno Scarpachi wrote:

I'm not sure of any errata, but....

As per print rules, when u select summoner as favored class for 1/2elf, technically you qualify for the cumulative rule.You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!
Why does this not stack like the gents above stated? Well mainly because the paragraph talking about the stacking, the way they say to do it, specifically states these rules are for dice rolling. Summoners do not roll dice for evo points, therefor their stacking rules for this ability are in line with the example of the paladin for the accumulative.
I dont know if these rules have been erratad or not, they should be. By the print rules bard and barby, could have 400+ rds of song/rage per day. As well a a ranger with dodge to favored enemy at 1/3 lvls, after 18 lvls he cummulative adds 108 dodge bonus to AC vs favored enemy.
Also dont forget just because a summoner pet cant wear armor.. doesnt mean it cant wear bracer of defense like a monk :D

Sincerely,

Bruno "Leg Snapper" Scarpachi

No. Just no. Couldn't really figure out the logic behind this calculation.

You get 1/4 point at every level which you choose this feature to be the favorite class option, instead of the default hit point/skill point.
So, in a consecutive 4 level spread, it's 1/4 (0.25) at first level, 1/4 at second level (0.5), 1/4 at third (0.75) and 1/4 at fourth level (1 full extra point).


Bruno Scarpachi wrote:

I'm not sure of any errata, but....

As per print rules, when u select summoner as favored class for 1/2elf, technically you qualify for the cumulative rule.You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!
Why does this not stack like the gents above stated? Well mainly because the paragraph talking about the stacking, the way they say to do it, specifically states these rules are for dice rolling. Summoners do not roll dice for evo points, therefor their stacking rules for this ability are in line with the example of the paladin for the accumulative.
I dont know if these rules have been erratad or not, they should be. By the print rules bard and barby, could have 400+ rds of song/rage per day. As well a a ranger with dodge to favored enemy at 1/3 lvls, after 18 lvls he cummulative adds 108 dodge bonus to AC vs favored enemy.
Also dont forget just because a summoner pet cant wear armor.. doesnt mean it cant wear bracer of defense like a monk :D

Sincerely,

Bruno "Leg Snapper" Scarpachi

Oh my! Well if favored class bonus was cumulative then every one would get 20x20 HP at lvl 20. Sign me up! Even the wizard has more HP than the colossal red dragon. Hurray....400HP for everyone!

Oh wait. That could also be 400 skill points. Everyone can be a maxed out skill monkey.

Setting my obvious sarcasm aside. It stacks like everyone else says. You get a quarter point at each lvl and when you hit lvl 4,8,12,16,20 you get an extra evolution point to spend. Its not a bad bonus, but its not an every half-elf summoner will take it bonus either.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

"Unless otherwise
noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For
example, a human with paladin as a favored class may
choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she
gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this
resistance bonus to 2 per level, 10 times raises it to 10 per
level, and so on." pg9 advanced book."Cumulative Rule".

Finally, some of these alternate favored class benefits
only add +1/2, +1/3, +1/4, or +1/6 to a roll (rather than +1)each time the benefit is selected; when applying this result
to the die roll, round down (minimum 0)." Single Stack Rule"

Now Hp's, skills, cmd,cmb,attack,dmg, mag dmg,SR, all use a DICE ROLL(DICE ROLL<-- important part) and therefor do not cumulative stack

Bard songs/day, barby rage/day, summoner evo pts,AC,energy resistance etc etc ALL do not use DICE.The single stack rule specifically says for bonuses applied to DICE ROLLS!AND these do not require a DICE ROLL( sorry for caps, not sure how to underline here).

Do not get hooked on the fraction. The fraction only tells you the rate of increase, it does not tell you which rule.The key here is the dice roll. I say again , the Rogue example rule is for dice rolls.

This is not a stretch, usually as a rule monger, I have to read between the lines. However this one is in plain text. Which threw me off for a bit.

golem 101: you got the calculation right. take the ability 4 times you get 1 point now factor the cumulative as per the paladin example, and you get 1pt/lvl, so at 4th level you would have a grand total of 4pts for this ability 4 times.At 8th level you would have 8/4=2 per lvl is 16 total bonus points - 4(from 4th lvl)=12 more bonus pts at 8th lvl

Sincerely,

Bruno "Leg Snapper" Scarpachi


Bruno Scarpachi wrote:

I'm not sure of any errata, but....

As per print rules, when u select summoner as favored class for 1/2elf, technically you qualify for the cumulative rule.You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!
Why does this not stack like the gents above stated? Well mainly because the paragraph talking about the stacking, the way they say to do it, specifically states these rules are for dice rolling. Summoners do not roll dice for evo points, therefor their stacking rules for this ability are in line with the example of the paladin for the accumulative.
I dont know if these rules have been erratad or not, they should be. By the print rules bard and barby, could have 400+ rds of song/rage per day. As well a a ranger with dodge to favored enemy at 1/3 lvls, after 18 lvls he cummulative adds 108 dodge bonus to AC vs favored enemy.
Also dont forget just because a summoner pet cant wear armor.. doesnt mean it cant wear bracer of defense like a monk :D

Sincerely,

Bruno "Leg Snapper" Scarpachi

........... Really I'm at a loss and can only assume you are kidding with this reading.

If you are not kidding, then, well, there is nothing I can do to help you.

Dark Archive

Bruno Scarpachi wrote:

golem 101: you got the calculation right. take the ability 4 times you get 1 point now factor the cumulative as per the paladin example, and you get 1pt/lvl, so at 4th level you would have a grand total of 4pts for this ability 4 times.At 8th level you would have 8/4=2 per lvl is 16 total bonus points - 4(from 4th lvl)=12 more bonus pts at 8th lvl

Sincerely,

Bruno "Leg Snapper" Scarpachi

How do you get the 1 point/1 level thing? If you take the ability 4 times that means you have 4 levels under your belt (unless you have some weird HR about super-gestalting a quadruple-stacking class per level), so it's 1 point/4 levels.

At 8th level you have another 4 levels under your belt - again, considering you keep choosing this favored option - so that's another full point, which stacks with the 1 you've gotten at fourth level.

The bonus fractions sum up with the previous fractions obtained, they do not sum up as a bonus becoming entire numbers.
So, it's always 1/4 of a point, no matter how many times you've chosen this bonus before.

Stacking does not work that way.

Shadow Lodge

Bruno Scarpachi wrote:

I'm not sure of any errata, but....

As per print rules, when u select summoner as favored class for 1/2elf, technically you qualify for the cumulative rule.You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!
Why does this not stack like the gents above stated? Well mainly because the paragraph talking about the stacking, the way they say to do it, specifically states these rules are for dice rolling. Summoners do not roll dice for evo points, therefor their stacking rules for this ability are in line with the example of the paladin for the accumulative.
I dont know if these rules have been erratad or not, they should be. By the print rules bard and barby, could have 400+ rds of song/rage per day. As well a a ranger with dodge to favored enemy at 1/3 lvls, after 18 lvls he cummulative adds 108 dodge bonus to AC vs favored enemy.
Also dont forget just because a summoner pet cant wear armor.. doesnt mean it cant wear bracer of defense like a monk :D

Sincerely,

Bruno "Leg Snapper" Scarpachi

Thank you very much. While I agree with the more conventional interpretations of this rule, I enjoy your interpretation so much more.


Bruno Scarpachi wrote:

"Unless otherwise

noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For
example, a human with paladin as a favored class may
choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she
gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this
resistance bonus to 2 per level, 10 times raises it to 10 per
level, and so on." pg9 advanced book."Cumulative Rule".

Ok...if you are going to quote something QUOTE IT. Don't add in little pieces here and there to make it fit what you say it means. That is total BS.

Here is the real quote:

APG page 9 wrote:

In most cases, these benefits are gained on a level-by-

level basis—your character gains the specified incremental
benefit each time she gains a level. Unless otherwise
noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For
example, a human with paladin as a favored class may
choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she
gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this
resistance bonus to 2, 10 times raises it to 10, and so on.

Oh wait...it says exactly what everyone else says! Well duh! I am 10 lvl so I will get +10 HP, or +10 skill points, or +2 evolution points, or whatever. No where does it say that these are cumulative. NO WHERE! You get a +1 or a +1/4, or a +whatever each round and these stack with each other. So at 10th lvl you have accumulated a +1/4 * lvl bonus. Period.

Bruno Scarpachi wrote:
....Other Stuff...

Wha????? I am going to need some time and alcohol to be able to understand were you went with this.


Thats the whole point to my post that everyone seems to be ignoring. The stacking rule the way you guys want to do it is for DICE ROLLS!!! The summoner DOES NOT roll a dice for evolution points!

Therefor he gets to stack as per the paladin example of: 10times =10 pts energy resistance PER LEVEL! 10pts/lvl x 10 levels=100 pts of energy resistance 10 10th, its cumulative.

Now the summoner: 1/4 pt x10=10/4=2.5ptsx 10 levels is 25 pts total bonus at 10th level.Yes it stacks this way as per the paladin example, because there is NO DICE ROLLING.
You guys keep saying it stacks the other way when the rule specifically states FOR DICE ROLLING! Please show me where the summoners rolls for evo points per lvl. You cant because they get 1-2 pts per level as a set progression. So the stacking rule you guys are trying to use is invalid because it is for dice rolls features only.


Is there more than 1 version of the pdf book? i directy copy and pasted my pdf.


THERE IS NO DICE ROLL FOR FAVORED CLASS BONUSES!!!!

If your Trolling. Congratulations you won! I concede defeat.


Bruno Scarpachi wrote:


Therefor he gets to stack as per the paladin example of: 10times =10 pts energy resistance PER LEVEL! 10pts/lvl x 10 levels=100 pts of energy resistance 10 10th, its cumulative.

Deep breath....There is no PER LEVEL in the text. I do not know were you got your pdf but I am staring at mine right now. My advice to you would be to go to your my downloads section and re-download your pdf from paizo.

Favored class bonus is not per level it is a flat bonus that you add on to your character. You get 2 evolution points at 10 lvl from the bonus. A flat 2 points.


Lets walk through this because I would like you to understand that the way you are reading the rules breaks the game. Why would Paizo give the summoner so few evolution points and then allow any old half-elf to have 6 times as many points? They wouldn't. It is way more reasonable for our way to work. That is, at lvl 4 you get an extra evolution point, at lvl 8 you get a net +2 evolution points, and so on. This is much more reasonable and does not break the entire game.

As far as other favored class bonuses, there are some that add your bonus to a die roll. But look at their example, it is a class ability. When you select HP as an example with your favored class you get 1 HP per level period. A lvl 1 character gets an extra HP, a lvl 10 character gets 10HP, and a lvl 20 character get 20HP. Period. If this is not the case. Any character would have more HP that a colossal red dragon. Its more reaonable to say that you get 20 hp than 400 HP (which by the way is twice what any character would ever have at lvl 20). It breaks the game.

I quoted from the page you referenced earlier. I do not know why your page has PER LEVEL on it, but mine does not. Judging from the other comments non of the other people in this thread have a PER Level either. I can not help you if you won't take my quote as the real thing.


Matt Beatty wrote:
Bruno Scarpachi wrote:


Therefor he gets to stack as per the paladin example of: 10times =10 pts energy resistance PER LEVEL! 10pts/lvl x 10 levels=100 pts of energy resistance 10 10th, its cumulative.

Deep breath....There is no PER LEVEL in the text. I do not know were you got your pdf but I am staring at mine right now. My advice to you would be to go to your my downloads section and re-download your pdf from paizo.

Favored class bonus is not per level it is a flat bonus that you add on to your character. You get 2 evolution points at 10 lvl from the bonus. A flat 2 points.

No, he is right:

"Unless otherwise noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For example, a human with paladin as a favored class may
choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she
gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this
resistance bonus to 2 per level, 10 times raises it to 10 per
level, and so on."
This is on page 9 of Advanced player's Guide and it does say per level.

You guys are wrong. Most people don't read it as written, but it does say per level.


Well I'll be damned, it does say 'per level'. Of course, I have a first printing APG, but there is nothing about it mentioned in the errata. That's...silly. Though I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to the hit points or skill points for a favored class bonus, as those choices aren't mentioned in that particular paragraph.


Correct sunset this bonus does not aply to HP because when you level you first have to roll a dice to determine how many you get for your class.Then u select a alternate class feature , then you add your 1 bonus point.And only 1 point because it is a modifier of a dice roll.


Starbuck_II wrote:
Matt Beatty wrote:
Bruno Scarpachi wrote:


Therefor he gets to stack as per the paladin example of: 10times =10 pts energy resistance PER LEVEL! 10pts/lvl x 10 levels=100 pts of energy resistance 10 10th, its cumulative.

Deep breath....There is no PER LEVEL in the text. I do not know were you got your pdf but I am staring at mine right now. My advice to you would be to go to your my downloads section and re-download your pdf from paizo.

Favored class bonus is not per level it is a flat bonus that you add on to your character. You get 2 evolution points at 10 lvl from the bonus. A flat 2 points.

No, he is right:

"Unless otherwise noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For example, a human with paladin as a favored class may
choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she
gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this
resistance bonus to 2 per level, 10 times raises it to 10 per
level, and so on."
This is on page 9 of Advanced player's Guide and it does say per level.

You guys are wrong. Most people don't read it as written, but it does say per level.

I'm inclined to believe it's poorly worded. The example given would make the paladin's energy resistance /100 at 10. That can't be right.

10 levels in paladin with choosing this bonus 10 times. the bonus raises to 10/paladin level and gives him ER fire 100


I believe this is one of those instances of RAW not equaling RAI. In the example they give of the paladin energy resistance, the 'per level' means that a paladin would have resist 1 at level 1, 4 at level 2, 9 at level 3, 16 at level 4, 25 at level 5, etc, which is much too powerful. Though the evolution points would scale more slowly, as you'd only get 1/4 at level 1, 3/4 at level 2, 2 1/4 at level 3, 4 at level 4, 6 1/4 at level 5, etc.


close sunset but not quite, i believe. 1/4 at level 1 is 1/4. lvl 2 would be 1/4+1/4=1/2. so 1/2 for 2 lvls is 1pt. I thiink im reading yours right and your new total is with previous amount subtracrted if im reading it right. I tried not to do it by individual level . I did it by every 4lvls bonus pts assesed for easy math. so at lvl 4 i got 4 bonus pt, and at 8 is 16 pts but i already recieved 4 pts so i would get a new 12 pts at lvl 8. I tried to stay away from the individual level,some people go fraction!!! and their brains melt.


SunsetPsychosis wrote:
I believe this is one of those instances of RAW not equaling RAI. In the example they give of the paladin energy resistance, the 'per level' means that a paladin would have resist 1 at level 1, 4 at level 2, 9 at level 3, 16 at level 4, 25 at level 5, etc, which is much too powerful. Though the evolution points would scale more slowly, as you'd only get 1/4 at level 1, 3/4 at level 2, 2 1/4 at level 3, 4 at level 4, 6 1/4 at level 5, etc.

I think it is if read exactly (the amount x level increases each time you take it)

1/4th at 1st (1/4th x 1 = 1/4th)
2/4th at 2nd (so 1 point)
3/th at 3rd (2 1/4th points)
4/4th at 4th (4 points)
5/4th at 5th (6 1/4th points )
6/4th at 6th (9 points)
7/4th at 7th (12 1/4th points)
Etc

But you don't add previous level: you use new levels bonus. So at level 8, you are only 14 (16-2=14) points above old way of counting (normal way was thought to be 1/4 x 8 = 2).


Bruno Scarpachi wrote:
close sunset but not quite, i believe. 1/4 at level 1 is 1/4. lvl 2 would be 1/4+1/4=1/2. so 1/2 for 2 lvls is 1pt. I thiink im reading yours right and your new total is with previous amount subtracrted if im reading it right. I tried not to do it by individual level . I did it by every 4lvls bonus pts assesed for easy math. so at lvl 4 i got 4 bonus pt, and at 8 is 16 pts but i already recieved 4 pts so i would get a new 12 pts at lvl 8. I tried to stay away from the individual level,some people go fraction!!! and their brains melt.

I'm terrible at math XD the resist one was easier, but yeah fractions are annoying. I just figured that the bonus per level was stacking, while at the same time the number of levels was increasing. So in the case of the resist, Resist 1 at level 1 (1 per level, 1 level), Resist 4 at level 2 (resist 2 per level, 2 levels), etc. So following that same math, evolution points at level 2 would be 1/2 per level x2 (1 point), level 3 would be 3/4 per level x3 (2 1/4 points), level 4 would be 1 per level x4 (4 points), level 5 would be 1 1/4 per level x5 (6 1/4 points), level 6 would be 1 1/2 per level x6 (9 points), level 7 would be 1 3/4 per level (12 1/4 points), onwards and upwards. That math would scale up to +100 points at level 20 (1/4 x 20 = 5. 5 per level x20 = 100)


man that eidolon would have everything I bet, fasthealing, sr, dr, blindsight, would be a relatively untouchable critter.


thepuregamer wrote:
man that eidolon would have everything I bet, fasthealing, sr, dr, blindsight, would be a relatively untouchable critter.

Likely this is why no one read it the cway it was written. I'm surprised there was no errata to that page of APG as it is a bad description or needs clarification.


Since there is some confusion as to what this clause says. Can everyone give us what APG they are using and whether the per level is in it.

Mine obviously does not say per level. I have an APG pdf acquired on May 11, 2011. Which is post Errata.

To make sure here is a direct copy of that paracgraph on page 9 of the APG:
"In most cases, these benefits are gained on a level-by-
level basis—your character gains the specified incremental
benefit each time she gains a level. Unless otherwise
noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For
example, a human with paladin as a favored class may
choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she
gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this
resistance bonus to 2, 10 times raises it to 10, and so on."

Note: Some times Paizo Ghost errata's things and does not actually put them in the errata.


thepuregamer wrote:
man that eidolon would have everything I bet, fasthealing, sr, dr, blindsight, would be a relatively untouchable critter.

Exactly!!! This is why that can not be right. The Eidolon would have everything and still have left over points.


Matt Beatty wrote:

Since there is some confusion as to what this clause says. Can everyone give us what APG they are using and whether the per level is in it.

Mine obviously does not say per level. I have an APG pdf acquired on May 11, 2011. Which is post Errata.

To make sure here is a direct copy of that paracgraph on page 9 of the APG:
"In most cases, these benefits are gained on a level-by-
level basis—your character gains the specified incremental
benefit each time she gains a level. Unless otherwise
noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For
example, a human with paladin as a favored class may
choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she
gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this
resistance bonus to 2, 10 times raises it to 10, and so on."

Note: Some times Paizo Ghost errata's things and does not actually put them in the errata.

I'm using a first printing APG. If something is written differently in the second printing, but wasn't mentioned in the errata, which version is correct? It's especially important for PFS usage, as they can't expect players to go buy a second printing of a book they already own.


From the PRD:

Quote:
In most cases, these benefits are gained on a level-by-level basis—your character gains the specified incremental benefit each time she gains a level. Unless otherwise noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For example, a human with paladin as a favored class may choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this resistance bonus to 2, 10 times raises it to 10, and so on.

my bold. doesn't say per level at all.


The Eel wrote:

From the PRD:

Quote:
In most cases, these benefits are gained on a level-by-level basis—your character gains the specified incremental benefit each time she gains a level. Unless otherwise noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For example, a human with paladin as a favored class may choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this resistance bonus to 2, 10 times raises it to 10, and so on.
my bold. doesn't say per level at all.

So they errataed something but didn't tell anyone they errated it? Weird.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

What are you reading? This has been stated now, but this is a copy past from the PRD in its entirety

PRD Favored Class:

Racial Favored Classes

The final section for each racial discussion describes alternative benefits for members of that race taking certain classes as a favored class. The normal benefit of having a favored class is simple and effective: your character gains one extra hit point or one extra skill rank each time she gains a level in that class (or in either of two classes, if she is a half-elf). The alternate favored class abilities listed here may not have as broad an appeal as the standard choices. They are designed to reflect flavorful options that might be less useful in general but prove handy in the right situations or for a character with the right focus. Most of them play off racial archetypes, like a half-orc's toughness and proclivity for breaking things or elven grace and finesse.

In most cases, these benefits are gained on a level-by-level basis—your character gains the specified incremental benefit each time she gains a level. Unless otherwise noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For example, a human with paladin as a favored class may choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this resistance bonus to 2, 10 times raises it to 10, and so on.

In some cases this benefit may eventually hit a fixed numerical limit, after which selecting that favored class benefit has no effect. Of course, you can still select the bonus hit point or skill rank as your favored class benefit, so there is always a reward for sticking with a favored class.

Finally, some of these alternate favored class benefits only add +1/2, +1/3, +1/4, or +1/6 to a roll (rather than +1) each time the benefit is selected; when applying this result to the die roll, round down (minimum 0). For example, a dwarf with rogue as his favored class adds +1/2 to his trap sense ability regarding stone traps each time he selects the alternate rogue favored class benefit; though this means the net effect is +0 after selecting it once (because +1/2 rounds down to +0), after 20 levels this benefit gives the dwarf a +10 bonus to his trap sense (in addition to the base value from being a 20th-level rogue).

As in the previous section, what is presented here is a set of alternative benefits that characters of each race may choose instead of the normal benefits for their favored class. Thus, rather than taking an extra hit point or an extra skill rank, players may choose for their characters to gain the benefit listed here. This is not a permanent or irrevocable choice; just as characters could alternate between taking skill ranks and hit points when they gain levels in their favored class, these benefits provide a third option, and characters may freely alternate between them.

As with any alternate or optional rule, consult with your GM to determine whether exchanging normal favored class benefits for those in this chapter will be allowed.

*EDIT* I see the problem. I see the text in the original quote above in my 1st print APG. It states "per level" in the book. This is updated on the PRD, but it is not on the first errata. I am downloading the current APG and checking it now

*EDIT* The downloaded version is up to date with description in this post. PDF for Current Errata for Advanced Player's Guide First Printing v1.0 does not include the change

So in the end, the integer bonuses are added together. The factions give you the bonus at every whole number

*EDIT* www.d20pfsrd.com has the wrong info, most likely due to an official errata doc never coming out

d20pfsrd favored class info:

Racial Favored Class Benefits (Advanced Player's Guide)

The normal benefit of having a favored class is simple and effective: your character gains one extra hit point or one extra skill rank each time she gains a level in that class (or in either of two classes, if she is a half-elf ). The alternate favored class abilities listed here may not have as broad an appeal as the standard choices. They are designed to ref lect f lavorful options that might be less useful in general but prove handy in the right situations or for a character with the right focus. Most of them play off racial archetypes, like a half-orc’s toughness and proclivity for breaking things or elven grace and finesse.

In most cases, these benefits are gained on a level-by level basis—your character gains the specified incremental benefit each time she gains a level. Unless otherwise noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For example, a human with paladin as a favored class may choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this resistance bonus to 2 per level, 10 times raises it to 10 per level, and so on.

In some cases this benefit may eventually hit a fixed numerical limit, after which selecting that favored class benefit has no effect. Of course, you can still select the bonus hit point or skill rank as your favored class benefit, so there is always a reward for sticking with a favored class.

Finally, some of these alternate favored class benefits only add +1/2, +1/3, +1/4, or +1/6 to a roll (rather than +1) each time the benefit is selected; when applying this result to the die roll, round down (minimum 0). For example, a dwarf with Rogue as his favored class adds +1/2 to his trap sense ability regarding stone traps each time he selects the alternate Rogue favored class benefit; though this means the net effect is +0 after selecting it once (because +1/2 rounds down to +0), after 20 levels this benefit gives the dwarf a +10 bonus to his trap sense (in addition to the base value from being a 20th-level Rogue).

Each race page includes a set of alternative benefits that characters of that race may choose instead of the normal benefits for their favored class. Thus, rather than taking an extra hit point or an extra skill rank, players may choose for their characters to gain the benefit listed here. This is not a permanent or irrevocable choice; just as characters could alternate between taking skill ranks and hit points when they gain levels in their favored class, these benefits provide a third option, and characters may freely alternate between them.

As with any alternate or optional rule, consult with your GM to determine whether exchanging normal favored class benefits for those in this chapter will be allowed.


Bruno Scarpachi wrote:

You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!

I thought I knew what ridiculous was, until this day.


Dire Mongoose wrote:
Bruno Scarpachi wrote:

You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!

I thought I knew what ridiculous was, until this day.

+1. Even if this was possible, that's exactly enough evolution points to get every single evolution in both the APG and UM once. At what point do you look at something like that and think... "Yeah, that must be what it means"? Obviously, the 1st printing of the APG had a mistake. In fact, it had many. You have to be able to look at a rule and use common sense. Or take a brief look at the official PRD. /facepalm


The question is, if it was never errata'd, is it still technically official? Just because it was changed in later printings and the SRD, without an official statement of change, it seems like the 1st printing version could still be considered legitimate, since anyone who owns and uses the book would have no way of knowing that the rule changed.


How is this even being debated really? does that mean my sorcerer gets to learn every spell if he is human. WOOT no more wizards for me.


SunsetPsychosis wrote:
The question is, if it was never errata'd, is it still technically official? Just because it was changed in later printings and the SRD, without an official statement of change, it seems like the 1st printing version could still be considered legitimate, since anyone who owns and uses the book would have no way of knowing that the rule changed.

Um no. There are still free access ways of seeing the changes. The change is part of the srd. In addition the second Ed printing will always trump the first Ed, whether the change is in the errata or not. However, I wish that Paizo did not ghost errata some changes. Then this problem would not arise.


Talonhawke wrote:
How is this even being debated really? does that mean my sorcerer gets to learn every spell if he is human. WOOT no more wizards for me.

Its not really. If you put it through the common sense filter it utterly fails. What is more being debated now is when the change was made and why it didn't show up in the errata.


Yeah i know have a player who tried to pull these things for years kinda glad i moved.


But, again, without Paizo officially announcing a change, how would a person even know to LOOK on any of the other sources for said change? Ghost errata may exist, but is it really official if it's not issued as part of an errata document? Not everyone uses the SRD or the forums to realize these things. It could even potentially cause problems with PFS, depending on the books the people running the event have available. It would be an easy fix to have an official Paizo statement about it.

For the record, I completely agree that from a common sense point of view, that much of a massive bonus is clearly not intended. But I'm talking RAW here, not RAI. The differences between the two could be problematic.


I think any GM worth his salt would know better period. I mean really if you as a GM would agree with that arguement I think you either are very very new to gaming or plan on rushing the party with the tarrasque by level 10.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The paladin stacking example is a known issue and was, thankfully corrected long ago. There was a thread on it well over a year ago in which a developer chimed in and stated the intent (which newer books now match).

This is all old hat. If you want, you could probably find the old thread.


Also by this logic dwarf barbains 442+con rounds of rage a day. Thats almost an hour of rage with a 10 con. seriously who in their right mind would take this kind of logic and actually think its what the developers meant to happen.


It's not a matter of what the GM thinks. Yes, this would clearly be ruled as BS by any GM worth his salt. It's a matter of a lack of official documentation on the subject.

Dark Archive

By the wrath of Crom, so if it's not errataed, a very clearly wrong/poorly worded first printing RAW trumps common sense and any previous rules conventions?

I need a vacation from these boards.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

In some cases, RAW trumps RAI regardless, hence why I flagged this thread as FAQ and think other should do the same.

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