Ok it's a silly question i know. It came up in the session i recently ran and sparked the broader question that if Aquan is intended to be used underwater would being able to speak it enable casting while submerged?
I'd say the ability to breathe underwater is more relevant than the language.
Off hand I would have to say that Ross is correct. If you can't breath underwater then it doesn't matter what language you speak, you cannot cast while drowning.
I don't think spells get cast in normal spoken languages. If they were, you wouldn't need Read Magic to read spells, or Spellcraft to understand what spells you overhear.
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You still need air, though. We rule that you have one shot of casting underwater, the air in your lungs when you went in the water. If you can't get it out in that "blurb, blurb..." concentration check (usually the same DC as if casting defensively), than you're spell-less until you get some air.
This ruling allows a caster to cast a spell to allow breathing underwater.
[Edit] I'd say that speaking Aquan negates the need for the concentration check.
Yes,.. but only if it was acted out by the player because as a DM i'd be laughing too hard to say no
I don't think spells get cast in normal spoken languages. If they were, you wouldn't need Read Magic to read spells, or Spellcraft to understand what spells you overhear.
Quick, what spell is this?
O Lord, mask of flesh and bone, all creation, flutter of wings, ye who bears the name of man, truth and temperance, upon this sinless wall of dreams unleash but slightly the wrath of your claws
And for extra credit, compare and contrast to this spell:
O Lord, Mask of blood and flesh, all creation, flutter wings, you who bears the name of Man, Inferno and Pandemonium, the sea barrier surges, March on to the south!
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Absent special conditions, anyone can speak underwater in any language, briefly. But I don't think that allows you to cast spells if you can't breathe. "To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice", and I think that's ruled out underwater if you can't breathe water.
Quick, what spell is this?
Quote:
O Lord, mask of flesh and bone, all creation, flutter of wings, ye who bears the name of man, truth and temperance, upon this sinless wall of dreams unleash but slightly the wrath of your claws
And for extra credit, compare and contrast to this spell:
Quote:
O Lord, Mask of blood and flesh, all creation, flutter wings, you who bears the name of Man, Inferno and Pandemonium, the sea barrier surges, March on to the south!
Crash down blue fire and twin lotus of crashing blue fire.
Crash down blue fire and twin lotus of crashing blue fire.Quick, what spell is this?
Quote:
O Lord, mask of flesh and bone, all creation, flutter of wings, ye who bears the name of man, truth and temperance, upon this sinless wall of dreams unleash but slightly the wrath of your claws
And for extra credit, compare and contrast to this spell:
Quote:
O Lord, Mask of blood and flesh, all creation, flutter wings, you who bears the name of Man, Inferno and Pandemonium, the sea barrier surges, March on to the south!
Actually no, but good guess. The first is sokatsui (blue fire crash down), but the second is shakkaho (red flame cannon). I don't think we've ever been given the incantation for twin lotus blue fire crash down; at the least, I couldn't find it.
Congratulations on passing your Spellcraft check ;)
My point in posting those, for the record, is that it's quite possible to have arcane chants that aren't, "I'm casting fireball, I'm casting fireball," and as such are still unrecognizable to people who don't have ranks in a skill that lets them identify spell chants.
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I don't think spells get cast in normal spoken languages. If they were, you wouldn't need Read Magic to read spells, or Spellcraft to understand what spells you overhear.You're still using the same physical equipment, eyes to read, hands to gesture, and mouth and lungs to vocalise. So yes, casting vocal spells is rather hard to do while you're drowning and engaging in gag reflex.
I think he was stating that you don't cast spells in Aquan, or in Common, or whatever other languages you happen to know. You speak the language of magic.
No, because that is Aquaman's one and only power. Talking to fish.
Also, its a language, this doesnt mean you can suddenly speak it any more clearly underwater than above water. Unless of course Aquan is like whale mating calls or something.
Lastly, its a standard action to drink a glass of water. So no.
Kierato wrote:
Zurai wrote:
Quick, what spell is this?
Quote:
O Lord, mask of flesh and bone, all creation, flutter of wings, ye who bears the name of man, truth and temperance, upon this sinless wall of dreams unleash but slightly the wrath of your claws
And for extra credit, compare and contrast to this spell:
Quote:
O Lord, Mask of blood and flesh, all creation, flutter wings, you who bears the name of Man, Inferno and Pandemonium, the sea barrier surges, March on to the south!
Crash down blue fire and twin lotus of crashing blue fire.
Actually no, but good guess. The first is sokatsui (blue fire crash down), but the second is shakkaho (red flame cannon). I don't think we've ever been given the incantation for twin lotus blue fire crash down; at the least, I couldn't find it.
Congratulations on passing your Spellcraft check ;)
My point in posting those, for the record, is that it's quite possible to have arcane chants that aren't, "I'm casting fireball, I'm casting fireball," and as such are still unrecognizable to people who don't have ranks in a skill that lets them identify spell chants.
I thought you wanted the English translation sense you gave the incantation in English (which in both the manga and the anime is Crash Down Blue fire), got the second one wrong though, darn. I mostly watch the anime in Japanese.
they're not speaking Common, Elvish, Troll etc.; They are chanting an arcane formula that's unlocking the spell impressed within their minds. The formula itself is identical for every caster who is casting fireball.
Please cite any rules support for either of your assertions here (that spell chants aren't in a discernible language and that spell formulas are identical for every single caster). As far as I can tell, there is no such support; such details are left up to each DM to decide.
Spell formulas are not identical, see wizards and borrowed spellbooks Pg. 219.
Spells not spoken in a common language (common, elven, etc.) is a call back to 3.5 when it was a rule that spells were spoken in a primal arcane language.
I think a Concentration check might be in order vs distraction, but I don't see why casting couldn't be done underwater. Try it some time, it's really not that difficult to speak underwater. Others may not be able to understand you, but you can hear the words yourself quite clearly.
Hmm, that brings up an interesting point though. Spellcasting has to be done in a strong voice, fair enough. Question is, why? Who's listening? If a spell is cast in a forest with no one around, were there any verbal components? :)
Hmm, that brings up an interesting point though. Spellcasting has to be done in a strong voice, fair enough. Question is, why? Who's listening? If a spell is cast in a forest with no one around, were there any verbal components? :)
Oddly enough, true name magic could be cast while silenced, because "the universe can hear just fine".
I don't think we've ever been given the incantation for twin lotus blue fire crash down; at the least, I couldn't find it.
It was said, but it was mixed with the incantation for Rikujoukorou (Six Rods Prison of Light).
Anyway, more relevant to the topic, breathing underwater is what lets you speak underwater, not the language. Hence why Merfolk can talk underwater.
Can a spell caster who speaks Ignan cast spells while covered in lava?
Can a spell caster who speaks Terran cast spells while buried in quicksand?
Then a spell caster who speaks Aquan cannot cast spells while under water.
I like to think that if I polymorph into a humanoid shaped earth elemental, I can still cast spells even while earth gliding (after all, earth elementals have languages and can talk, I have hands, being humanoid in form, and earth is not an impediment for earth elementals anymore than water is for water elementals or merfolk).
But wouldn't that be a function being a creature that can earthglide and otherwise function normally in the earth like that.. not because they speak Terran?
The question is if you can say "Blurgle Blurgle" instead of "Hooptihoo", does that mean you can cast a spell in an environment you'd normally be unable to cast.
Personally, I feel that if your physical body requires air to vocalize your verbal components, then you will be unable to cast a spell when that is impeded. Even if you can speak in a language that can be spoken underwater... you don't have gills, so you can't vocalize properly underwater.
If you changed yourself into a creature that does have the ability to function underwater normally, then you'd be able to cast your spells in whatever language you'd want.
But wouldn't that be a function being a creature that can earthglide and otherwise function normally in the earth like that.. not because they speak Terran?
The question is if you can say "Blurgle Blurgle" instead of "Hooptihoo", does that mean you can cast a spell in an environment you'd normally be unable to cast.
Personally, I feel that if your physical body requires air to vocalize your verbal components, then you will be unable to cast a spell when that is impeded. Even if you can speak in a language that can be spoken underwater... you don't have gills, so you can't vocalize properly underwater.
If you changed yourself into a creature that does have the ability to function underwater normally, then you'd be able to cast your spells in whatever language you'd want.
I never claimed I needed to speak terran, only the ability to speak and gesture.
I never claimed I needed to speak terran, only the ability to speak and gesture.
The text you quoted was referencing speaking the language. If you weren't talking about that, then I was misled by your quote to think otherwise.
My apologies.
My point in posting those, for the record, is that it's quite possible to have arcane chants that aren't, "I'm casting fireball, I'm casting fireball," and as such are still unrecognizable to people who don't have ranks in a skill that lets them identify spell chants.
What about Magic Missile? You can't cast Magic Missile without saying "I cast Magic Missile!".
The rules for counterspell and spellcraft support my ascertions. The roll for identifying a spell as it's being cast is an identical DC for a given spell no matter who's casting it. There are also no rules that support trying to alter that DC.
Uh, no, it doesn't. The fact that the DC is the same doesn't mean the incantation is the same; it just means that the identifiers are just as easy to identify. By your logic here, magic missile and cure light wounds have the same incantations because they have the same spellcraft DC!
If the rule mechanic does not exist to support that action it can not be done.
So you can't alter the DC to identify the spell (which actually isn't true, but who cares)? So what? That's got nothing to do with the spell's actual incantation. In fact, as Kierato brought up, there IS direct rules support for incantations being unique to the caster: you have to use read magic and pass a spellcraft check to lean spells from a different wizard's spellbook. If the spells were identical, it would be no different than reading them out of your own spellbook.
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The formula itself is identical for every caster who is casting fireball.
I partially disagree. While some of the "core" elements of a spell may be consistent (at least within the same type of physical caster), the nuances of casting the spell would be different from caster to caster, just like two artists painting a picture of the same object. The essence of the image would be the same, but each would put a different "theme" on the picture, tailored to them. Otherwise, if all spells were cast, exactly the same, why have a Spellcraft check at all? Perception would be more applicable. If it is a spell you know, then you could identify it automatically because you do the exact same thing. I feel the Spellcraft check is to recognize the "core" elements of the casting in order to identify the spell.