Dhampir as PC


Advice

51 to 66 of 66 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Shar Tahl wrote:


I would have to agree with Abraham. The affinity is a specific exception to the general rules of channeling energy. It would trump the general. They are effected as if they were undead.

Except that the rules do not state they are effected as if undead. The rules state they react to positive and negative energy as if undead, but are explicitly alive. Nothing in that statement can be construed to say they are treated as undead for targeting, or anything else, other than how they react to energy that's applied to them. If you are channeling to heal undead, you do not heal a dhampir, because he's not undead, he's alive. If you channel to heal living, you damage the dhampir, because he is alive, is a valid target, and reacts to the energy as if he were undead.

There's a reason why they said 'reacts' not 'is treated as'. If they had said they were treated as undead, then yes, they'd get hit when targeting undead and ignored when targeting living. But they aren't, and they don't.

Dark Archive

Or Paizo didn't think about what they meant exactly. I'd go with dhampirs is not a legal target for channeling to hurt undead.

Liberty's Edge

BYC wrote:
Or Paizo didn't think about what they meant exactly. I'd go with dhampirs is not a legal target for channeling to hurt undead.

Or, maybe they did, but a sighificant portion of people have issues reading RAW as being the RAI, as well as the RAW.

RAW: Dhampyr react to positive energy channeling to affect living by taking damage (with a Will save for half), and negative energy channeling to affect living by healing damage.

RAI: Dhampyr are living creatures and are only affected by positive & negative energy that can affect living creatures.

RAI as RAW: See RAW above.

As mentioned, it can make your normal positive energy cleric a death trap for a Dhampyr, but can make for some interesting effects when the Big Bad is a negative Cleric.


I played a dhampir inquisitor for awhile. It was cool. I consulted with the GM before playing him but I didn't tell the party I was playing a dhampir, I just described him as human and when it came time to go adventuring he informed the party that he had an aversion to curative magic. One of the other players blurted out "Oh, you're playing a dhampir? Cool."

Honestly the only time him being a dhampir mattered in our game was when I employed his Darkvision.

I also played a different dhampir in a one-shot adventure with the same GM and was in a Channel Energy effect but it worked to my benefit because the party's dwarven cleric (secretly a cleric of Asmodeus) actually channeled negative energy to harm living creatures, and it didn't hurt my guy.

Dhampir seems like a fine player race to me.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
TriOmegaZero wrote:
It's a very big problem at low levels, as our Sunday game showed. My cleric did not know about the dhampir's nature, and nearly ended up killing him when he tried to save him from a trap. From then on, he had to be careful about where he channeled, as he has not been able to take Selective Channeling yet.

Ouch. Though this does give the dhampir the opportunity to go all heroic and potentiall self-sacrificing by yelling "DO IT!" at the cleric when everyone else really needs that heal.

Grand Lodge

Mikaze wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
It's a very big problem at low levels, as our Sunday game showed. My cleric did not know about the dhampir's nature, and nearly ended up killing him when he tried to save him from a trap. From then on, he had to be careful about where he channeled, as he has not been able to take Selective Channeling yet.
Ouch. Though this does give the dhampir the opportunity to go all heroic and potentiall self-sacrificing by yelling "DO IT!" at the cleric when everyone else really needs that heal.

Was thinking same


Yeah, I think it's pretty clear the intention is for the Dhampir to effectively be undead in any situation that involves positive/negative energy. You can fiddle with the rules and try and say that's not the case, but it reacts as undead. A way to think about it would be that if a cleric doesn't know there is a certain living/undead creature in its channeling range (hidden/disguised) they still affect all those creatures within that area. They aren't picking and choosing undead or living creatures. They are channeling a certain type of energy or in a specific way so as to affect undead or living. Since dhampir are treated as undead, they would be affected just like a disguised undead in the radius.

Grand Lodge

Jackissocool wrote:
Yeah, I think it's pretty clear the intention is for the Dhampir to effectively be undead in any situation that involves positive/negative energy. You can fiddle with the rules and try and say that's not the case, but it reacts as undead. A way to think about it would be that if a cleric doesn't know there is a certain living/undead creature in its channeling range (hidden/disguised) they still affect all those creatures within that area. They aren't picking and choosing undead or living creatures. They are channeling a certain type of energy or in a specific way so as to affect undead or living. Since dhampir are treated as undead, they would be affected just like a disguised undead in the radius.

This really comes down to the NEA feature. Is she healing living? or harming undead - Channel to Heal living creatures = Dhampir is ignored. Channel to Harm undead Dhamp is affected.


Quote:
"Negative Energy Affinity: Though a living creature, a dhampir reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead—positive energy harms it, while negative energy heals it.

Pretty clear racial description page on Dhampirs.

Reference

Clearly states Dhampirs are living.
Clearly states what it means by "reacts as if undead".
Clearly states that it is "reacting to" the energy.

Says nothing about changing its Classification as a living or undead target.

Post by MDT is completely accurate.


Wyran wrote:
Quote:
"Negative Energy Affinity: Though a living creature, a dhampir reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead—positive energy harms it, while negative energy heals it.

Pretty clear racial description page on Dhampirs.

Reference

Clearly states Dhampirs are living.
Clearly states what it means by "reacts as if undead".
Clearly states that it is "reacting to" the energy.

Says nothing about changing its Classification as a living or undead target.

Post by MDT is completely accurate.

Thanks, but the Devs errata/FAQ'd the ability to be as I was arguing against. Basically, they've decided the Dhampir is Undead for targeting as well.

I houserule it back to sanity in my own games, but the official ruling is they are targeted as undead as well as affected by energy like undead.

EDIT : Oh, and Necro Thread


I'd like to get a FAQ up in here on the intent of the rule, though I do agree that that reading is legitimate.


Bah thats lame, makes my dhampir buddy no longer scared of me. Found it in the faq though. Seems like a cop out for people that cant handle a difficulty in the mix of a party.


mdt wrote:
Wyran wrote:
Quote:
"Negative Energy Affinity: Though a living creature, a dhampir reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead—positive energy harms it, while negative energy heals it.

Pretty clear racial description page on Dhampirs.

Reference

Clearly states Dhampirs are living.
Clearly states what it means by "reacts as if undead".
Clearly states that it is "reacting to" the energy.

Says nothing about changing its Classification as a living or undead target.

Post by MDT is completely accurate.

Thanks, but the Devs errata/FAQ'd the ability to be as I was arguing against. Basically, they've decided the Dhampir is Undead for targeting as well.

I houserule it back to sanity in my own games, but the official ruling is they are targeted as undead as well as affected by energy like undead.

EDIT : Oh, and Necro Thread

Do you have a link to the errata/FAQ? I have been searching and can't seem to find it.


Negative Energy Affinity: How is this ability (Bestiary 2, page 299) supposed to work?
The intent of this ability is that the creature is healed by negative energy (like an undead) and harmed by positive energy (like an undead); this is automatic and has nothing to do with the intent of the target or the energy-wielder. However, as written, the ability is a bit confusing because of the phrase “reacts to,” which doesn’t have a clear definition. This ability will be changed in the next printing of Bestiary 2.

Update: Page 299—In the description of the Negative Energy Affinity ability, replace the current entry with the following:

Negative Energy Affinity (Ex) The creature is alive, but is treated as undead for all effects that affect undead differently than living creatures, such as cure spells and channeled energy. Format: negative energy affinity; Location: Defensive Abilities.

—Sean K Reynolds, 02/07/12

Reference

Dark Archive

mdt wrote:
Thanks, but the Devs errata/FAQ'd the ability to be as I was arguing against. Basically, they've decided the Dhampir is Undead for targeting as well.

Sorry for the thread necro but I recently got a dhamphir boon.

The FAQ doesn't seem to change the RAW from what it was originally, but merely make it more obviously:

Nothing happens if the target is undead.
The opposite from the 'expected' (negative good/positive bad) happens if the target is living.

The FAQ doesn't mention targeting and thus it seems like mdt and Kitsune Knight had it right originally.

What am I missing?

The way I see it:

Case one: Dhamphir walks around and looks human. He's only affected when he's targeted as human (and receives the opposite effect).

1a) Evil cleric sees a party of Pathfinders and tries to hurt them channeling negative energy to harm living. All but Dhamphir are hurt, Dhamphir is healed. Evil cleric: Hmmm, that Pathfinder has NEA.

1b) Evil cleric sends in his pack of ghouls to deal with the party of Pathfinders. The ghouls start to get hurt. Pathfinder cleric channels positive energy to harm the ghouls. Dhamphir is unaffected as are all the other Pathfinders. A couple of the ghouls are almost destroyed. Evil cleric channels negative energy to heal up his ghouls. Dhamphir is unaffected as are all the other Pathfinders.

Case two: Dhamphir walks around and 'pretends' to be a vampire. He's completely unaffected if someone tries to target him with channeled energy as an undead.

2a) Evil cleric sees a party of Pathfinders and thinks they have an allied vampire (maybe the Pathfinder's have a necromancer with them?). Tries to hurt them with a channel negative energy, he expects the "vampire" to be unaffected. All but Dhamphir are hurt, Dhamphir is healed. Evil cleric now realizes the Dhamphir is not actually a vampire.

2b) Evil cleric sends in his pack of ghouls to deal with the party of Pathfinders. The ghouls start to get hurt. Pathfinder cleric channels positive energy to harm the ghouls. Dhamphir is unaffected as are all the other Pathfinders. A couple of the ghouls are almost destroyed. Evil cleric assumes that the Positive Energy channeling cleric must have used selective channel to avoid hurting the "vampire". He doesn't have selective channel and decides that he's willing to risk healing the "vampire" because he really wants to heal up his ghouls. He channels negative to heal undead. Dhamphir is unaffected as are all the other Pathfinders. Evil cleric is momentarily stumped... and then he realizes that the "vampire" must be alive.

As an aside. The change to channel energy (making it only affect living OR undead in a single cast) is my absolute least favorite change from D&D to Pathfinder. So frustrating.


Voadkha wrote:
mdt wrote:
Thanks, but the Devs errata/FAQ'd the ability to be as I was arguing against. Basically, they've decided the Dhampir is Undead for targeting as well.

Sorry for the thread necro but I recently got a dhamphir boon.

The FAQ doesn't seem to change the RAW from what it was originally, but merely make it more obviously:

Nothing happens if the target is undead.
The opposite from the 'expected' (negative good/positive bad) happens if the target is living.

The FAQ doesn't mention targeting and thus it seems like mdt and Kitsune Knight had it right originally.

What am I missing?

The way I see it:

Case one: Dhamphir walks around and looks human. He's only affected when he's targeted as human (and receives the opposite effect).

1a) Evil cleric sees a party of Pathfinders and tries to hurt them channeling negative energy to harm living. All but Dhamphir are hurt, Dhamphir is healed. Evil cleric: Hmmm, that Pathfinder has NEA.

1b) Evil cleric sends in his pack of ghouls to deal with the party of Pathfinders. The ghouls start to get hurt. Pathfinder cleric channels positive energy to harm the ghouls. Dhamphir is unaffected as are all the other Pathfinders. A couple of the ghouls are almost destroyed. Evil cleric channels negative energy to heal up his ghouls. Dhamphir is unaffected as are all the other Pathfinders.

Case two: Dhamphir walks around and 'pretends' to be a vampire. He's completely unaffected if someone tries to target him with channeled energy as an undead.

2a) Evil cleric sees a party of Pathfinders and thinks they have an allied vampire (maybe the Pathfinder's have a necromancer with them?). Tries to hurt them with a channel negative energy, he expects the "vampire" to be unaffected. All but Dhamphir are hurt, Dhamphir is healed. Evil cleric now realizes the Dhamphir is not actually a vampire.

2b) Evil cleric sends in his pack of ghouls to deal with the party of Pathfinders. The ghouls start to get hurt. Pathfinder cleric channels...

In Case one you are missing the way channel functions, Channel feature positive or negative, you have to choose to do damage or heal. it can't do both at the same time.

1a) nothing happens to the Dhamphir, because he does not count as living vs negative energy. Thus he can't be harmed

1b)if the dhamphir is in the area of the channel of the cleric channeling positive energy to harm undead. He is treated as undead and take damage. then if the Dhamphir is in the range of the other cleric channeling negative engery to heal undead. Then he gets healed.

in case 2

2a, again the Dhampier does not get healed because channel was intended to do harm.

2b)this one was the closest to accurate, if the cleric actual had selective channel. if he does not, he will be hurt by the positive energy, since it was used to harm. then healed if negative if it was used to heal.

Now it can get more confusing it the Dhampier has that feats that allows them to be healed by both types of energy.

channel rules have their own specific function different from other sources of positive or negative energy. such as cure and cause wounds spells. Those spell when used against a dhampier will function as the as per negative energy affinity normal functions.

51 to 66 of 66 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Dhampir as PC All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.