This kind of thing is why I prefer point buy.
I recommend 20pt. buy, the 5 extra points go a long way to making happier players. 15pt. point is possible, but can be difficult... especially if a few players are having bum luck now. I prefer point buy because my stat rolls always suck and someone will always out-perform the ENTIRE party(short of DM tweaking), it's the nature of the beast.
Paladin is at home in heavy armor; I also tend to suffer from low rolls, perhaps some new dice are in order. Barring new dice, maybe Paladin is not the correct class for that player? Just a thought. You're re-building for PF anyway, let them know that NOW would be a good opportunity to FIX/CHANGE any issues. :)
The power level from 3.5E to PF shouldn't be noticeable at all since they are only 3rd level, IMO.
I would keep everyone the SAME experience level, whether they miss a session or not. Missing out on the fun is punishment enough, "real life" happens. Sooner or later those who miss frequently will come to terms with it and just drop due to their other responsibilities anyway.
EDIT:
PF point buy WITHOUT racial bonuses/negatives, just so you can see what you're currently looking at if you haven't done this already.
17 points - 11, 17, 14, 10, 12, 07 - Ranger 3, Half-Elf, Archer
34 points - 15, 14, 14, 17, 13, 11 - Druid 3, Elf, Wolf Companion
24 points - 12, 12, 09, 16, 11, 16 - Rogue 3, Halfling
18 points - 16, 13, 13, 08, 12, 12 - Barbarian 2, Half-Orc, Heavy RP
30 points - 07, 12, 12, 16, 16, 16 - Sorcerer 2, Human
16 points - 15, 08, 12, 09, 13, 15 - Paladin 3, Human
Unknown - Not available - Fighter, Human
Unknown - Not Available - Wizard, Halfling
Alternately you could roll 2D6+6, or for the more heroic 1D6+12 ;)
So you have minimum 8 maximum 18, wich fits fairly well with the Pathfinder spread for their Iconics, or minimum 13 Maximum 18, wich is fairly high but in line with a lot of 3.5 heros like Drizzt, :)
Short of Bad Rolls the Barbarian and Paladin should really stand out in the forefront in PF. Depending on how optimizy your group is quite a while.
when our group went PF from 3.5 and we had our first Power attacking melee person suddenly killing things left and right at low levels it was a bit of a shock.
She is going to love what her charisma is going to do now. We have a paladin in my RotRL's campaign. Everyone was stunned that he made wisdom a dump stat. We were still believeing WIS was needed for spell casting and/or will. We knew better, but wow. The charisma bonus to will more then made up for the loss and charisma is the spell casting stat. Also damage dealing stat when smiting. Lotta love for pally in Pathfinder.
Greg
On Point-Buy-Systems...
1) They are as balanced a method for generating stats as you will find.
1a) if party-parity/balance is what you are looking for ;)
2) They are easy and you don't need an audience to 'roll-up' a character
3) They emphasise min/max
3a) Min/Max is not inherently a bad thing, and with play oriented players, it is a non-issue :)
For a long time into 3.0/3.5 I was a hold out from olden times when you rolled for stats. This was because I would look at the numbers, and not see the bonuses. 1/2 ed you had to have a 16 in a stat to start having a stat (yes, some exceptions, but you get my point :) ). So, in a point buy system when you see more 12s and 14s, it 'looked' weak to me...
Then I looked at the modifiers and realized (again!) that in 3.x, a 12 stat is respectable if not powerful-that is to say, Stats of 12+ meant something! :)
So, to wrap it up (stupid work!) Point Buys are great ;)
GNOME
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On point buys- I recommend a 20 point buy. My group has played 15, 20, & 25 and we all agree that 20 points is very much "the sweet spot" between feeling weak and scared, and beginning to overwhelm the enemies. If you want all of the players to feel a little more cowed against the hordes you are throwing at them, go with 15, if you want them to face them with grim determination, then go with 20. If you want them to steamroll everything you throw at them... you get the picture.
As for your wife, she should absolutely be in LOVE with the new paladin. Charisma is now a significantly better stat that it was before at a point buy it allows players to designate WHAT they want to be good at independently of luck.
For a paladin to feel powerful the setting has to be just right. A paladin is something that NPC's, be it of the church or not, should have a sense of minor awe, and certainly a might bit of respect for. This is simply put, part of the class, regardless of it being "fluff". Unless you are doing things in a setting where there are no friendly NPCs, or they are on a constant dungeon crawl then you should do your best to play this aspect of the up. It is not favoritism, it is just good DMing. A Druid should feel powerful and wise in the forest, a ranger in his favored terrain and against his enemies. A Rogue can have his hay-day in the tavern and the shadows, the Fighter on the battlefield. A Paladin is something VERY heroic and iconic to most good, or even lawful, characters.
If MECHANICALLY she is struggling to keep up, I would try to throw a few undead and specifically evil enemies her way, they know she is dangerous to them and they would work to try to take out the big threat first off. The other problem may be because of the low level of the game so far. Most classes get one or two REALLY BIG class features around level four, and the paladin is no exception to this. In one more level she will pick up an additional Smite Evil (Keep in mind this isn't a specific attack anymore, it applies to whoever they target with it until it dies, or the paladin goes rests to restore spells/daily use abilities) as well as channel positive energy. The latter is going to prove to be HUGELY powerful for the specific group you are playing with, channeling to heal only gets more powerful the bigger party you are in, and yours is missing someone who can channel. This will prove to probably be something of a personal in game landmark for the character as realizing her faith in these powers and being motivated to keep the character moving forward.
I hope my advice is at least somewhat helpful, if you have any other questions feel free shoot away.
The pathfinder paladin is head and tails above the 3.5 one. She should be ok. What was her build for the 3.5 version out of curiosity?
Greetings, fellow travellers.
I mostly agree to what Mr. Metric wrote. The paladin has become a powerful character in PF - up to a point where it gets scary (in my games at least).
He is now able to do lots more damage, absorb/mitigate lots more damage and is nigh unstopable due to divine grace (as before) - but with the better synergy of CHA due to being his "caster stat" in PF.
I do not recommend to enhance his abilities by giving him extra LoH/smites/what-nots.
Mind you, as a player I absolutely love the class now - it has finally grown to live up to its promise. As a DM it is sometimes hard to challenge the (my player's) paladin without killing the rest of the group (esp. in KM in the first 2 books).
The druid has actually looses a little bit by converting him to PF, but not much.
He is not that versatile anymore and has to decide whether to concentrate on the caster aspect (high WIS) or on the wild shaping aspect (high DEX and STR), though it is considered to be/stay more powerful if he takes the caster branch.
Looking at the stats I would also recommend point-buy 20.
Where is there a level disparity? One level difference at this stage of the campaign is nothing, a couple more sessions and latest by level 5 every one will be that level.
Ruyan.
Using the default point buy favors optimization at all PB levels (15,20,25). My personal preference is to either generate an array (or set of 3 arrays) that I like and that the players can arrange as desired or to increase the PB and eliminate stat buyback on stats with a negative modifier (negative after racial adjustments is generally okay though). This allows me to eliminate final stats that generally have extremely high and extremely low scores.
Dice rolling unfortunately introduces a level of variance that I typically don't like in games because there is already imbalance between character types and wildly different ability scores just heightens that disparity.
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Using the default point buy favors optimization at all PB levels (15,20,25). My personal preference is to either generate an array (or set of 3 arrays) that I like and that the players can arrange as desired or to increase the PB and eliminate stat buyback on stats with a negative modifier (negative after racial adjustments is generally okay though). This allows me to eliminate final stats that generally have extremely high and extremely low scores.
Dice rolling unfortunately introduces a level of variance that I typically don't like in games because there is already imbalance between character types and wildly different ability scores just heightens that disparity.
While that is a good way to set up a level of control from behind the screen as it were I don't think I could ever personally do that to my players, if only for the fact that I already have 90% of the control in the game. Not to mention a fixed array would need to have an option to dump at LEAST 1 stat to 7 so that classes that are MAD, like clerics, rogues, or even worse monks don't get screwed.
While that is a good way to set up a level of control from behind the screen as it were I don't think I could ever personally do that to my players, if only for the fact that I already have 90% of the control in the game. Not to mention a fixed array would need to have an option to dump at LEAST 1 stat to 7 so that classes that are MAD, like clerics, rogues, or even worse monks don't get screwed.
I'm not sure that I'm used to the Cleric being described as MAD (although some cleric concepts can be MAD) and the Rogue class can definitely be configured in a non-MAD setup.
The game's math is arguably balanced against 4 Elite Array characters already (although some might disagree). In my mind an Elite++ array using a 25 PB schedule really doesn't need dump stats because you can limit the upper range of the SAD full casters to 16s (or 18s after racial adjustment). This keeps the SAD casters closer to balance with the MAD martials.
Not to mention a fixed array would need to have an option to dump at LEAST 1 stat to 7 so that classes that are MAD, like clerics, rogues, or even worse monks don't get screwed.
Well, your array choices don't necessarily need to add up to the same point buy. It's very possible to offer a player a prebuilt array that technically would be 30 points but still isn't, in practice, better than what they could do with a cranked out 20 points.
I would allow a 20-point rebuild, but I wouldn't require it. While some characters have stronger stats, letting them keep them won't make a huge difference in the long run.
Once the paladin is rebuilt, he'll be fine. I suspect that he'd eventually shine even without that: Paladins are a very strong class in Pathfinder and he'll get to bump his charisma at 4th level.
Unaltered, your sorcerer will have a couple extra points on his Will save and he and the druid can load up their skills a bit. That may slight the rogue: If I got the impression that the rogue wasn't holding his own, I'd toss him a custom magic item that boosted a couple of his favorite skills (e.g.: a "face rogue" might find a cryptic mask, an item that grants a +5 to bluff and intimidate while granting the wearer a second save vs. divination magic and a saving throw to resist divinations which don't normally allow saves, such as detect invisibility).
Re: Paladin
5 words - swift action lay on hands
I would have said "Smite lasts per opponent, not per attack" but that's pretty solid, too.
I'm just summarizing what many others have said, with a little added backup.
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- 20 point buy is the correct choice.
15 point buy would weaken every character's stats, which would unnecessarily frustrating.
25 point buy plus a double-sized party would put this group way over the top power-wise.
Rolling stats is terrible in 3.0 and later. Earlier versions were made with rolled stats in mind, but the game isn't built for it anymore. - The paladin, properly built, will be a very strong character.
Pathfinder rules make the Paladin much stronger. (Charisma focus, Mercy, Divine Bond weapon, etc.)
A paladin will be especially good in this group because you're low on divine magic and high on melee, making Lay On Hands, Detect Evil, and even limited Divine Spells more desirable. - The druid will get weaker under Pathfinder rules.
Shapechange has been fixed.
He'll be going from 34 point value to 20.
The wolf's trip ability is amazing at levels 1-3, but slowly weakens with level.
(You may want to point out the APG Wolf Shaman to this player.) - Give everyone the same amount of experience.
Seriously, this is important. It's the way the game is built. By having some characters at lower levels:
1) You are punishing players for not being at game sessions, whether that is your intent or not.
2) Creating a party that is not balanced with one another, just like you got with rolling stats, but in a way that will get worse over time.
3) Creating headaches for yourself as the GM in trying to balance threats. Again, this will only get worse over time. (Iterative attacks, spells that count hit dice, and a dozen other examples.)
The paladin, properly built, will be a very strong character.
My advice is to focus on STR, CON & CHA if it's a "traditional tanking" Paladin. Not to say the others are "dump" stats, but CHA really does apply to MOST (if not ALL) of the Paladin's abilities in PF.
The druid will get weaker under Pathfinder rules.
Shapechange has been fixed.
He'll be going from 34 point value to 20.
The wolf's trip ability is amazing at levels 1-3, but slowly weakens with level.
(You may want to point out the APG Wolf Shaman to this player.)
+1, Others have somewhat hinted to it, but when the Druid remakes his character, he should probably pick a "theme" of sorts and set his ability scores accordingly. "Wild Shaper" or "Caster-Controller/Companion", Companion can argueably be it's own theme, but that's more of a feat/spell-selection issue than stats.
A "Wild Shaper" specifically, should have higher physical stats, as all of the shapeshifting/polymorphing in PF has been changed to provide bonuses to your existing stats. You no longer pick a monster from the Monster Manual(Bestiary) and get all of said creature's physical stats.
Beast Shape I
Applies to Druid: Wild Shape, despite being a spell description.)
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent.
Small animal: If the form you take is that of a Small animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Medium animal: If the form you take is that of a Medium animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus.
The animal shaman variants in the APG are pretty cool, definitely worth looking into.
EDIT: I apologize if you knew all of this, not my intention to be patronizing, just trying to help out. :)
We use 30 point buy without being able to drop your stats below 10 to get more points, it works quite well for us, the PC's feel challeneged and the DM doesnt need to ramp things up much at all. Lets examine this by comparing 2 human wizards:
Human Wizard 15 Point Buy: Str 7, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 20, Wis 7, Cha 7
Human Wizard 30 Point Buy: Str 10, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 10
Almost the exact same for the "important" stats of the class, only exception is character number 2 isnt a weak, naive, social pariah. This is just using a SAD character as an example, who it really helps out are the MAD characters (who, lets face it, are the ones who need the most help). Though that approach is about min/maxing, my take on the Wizard would probably something like:
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 13
Then again, I like well rounded stats and characters.
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Personally, I would have just given out a few '+1's' to the low-stat people, but it sounds like you're sold on the point-buy gig.
The paladin is very, very powerful class when done properly, but there are only a few methods that make the paladin effective. As a class, it has a very narrow execution, more narrow than any other class. While the RP possibilities are limitless, the combat possibilities boil down to:
1) Smiting Paladin. It looks like your group's paladin is a good smiting paladin. The smiting paladin focuses on dealing damage and killing the enemy quickly and efficiently. I recommend giving this paladin a horse - you're third level and should be able to afford mounts, and this will double the paladin's mobility. Later on, the smiting paladin can get a Paladin Mount, which is very potent. I also recommend the smiting paladin puts skill points in 'ride'. The weakness of a smiting paladin at low level is usually mobility and defense - enemies will gang up on them because they're a very, very big threat.
2) Immortal Paladin. The immortal paladin focuses on AC and defense - they are the wall that the party gets behind. The immortal paladin uses sword and shield, deals respectable damage, and can Lay on Hands to heal everything. The gnome or halfling makes a very good immortal paladin.
3) Ranged Paladin. Your paladin isn't one of these, I can tell from the low dexterity, but it's possible.
And that's about it, really.
Has your paladin gotten to use Smite much yet? Smite got a LOT more powerful in Pathfinder, and even detect evil got a boost. The paladin should be behind the fighter in DPS until he finds a proper target for smiting, which is when he pulls way ahead.