17th level Barbarian "Tireless Rage" and "1 / rage" powers

Rules Questions


I have a rules questions about "Tireless Rage" and powers that may be used "Once per rage."

p. 32 of the core rules says:

"A Barbarian can enter a rage as a free action."
"A Barbarian can end her rage as a free action...."
"...but otherwise can enter a rage multiple times during a single encounter or combat"

Tireless rage at 17th level means they no longer are fatigued by rage.

Lets say combat begins.

Babarian Turn 1:
step 1: Begin rage.
step 2-x: Use several 1/rage powers.
End Turn 1.

Barbarian Turn 2:
step 1: End rage
step 2: begin rage.
step 3-x: Use several 1/rage powers.
End Turn 2.

Repeat step 2 for rest of fight.

My question would be:

Is this working as intended that a 17th+ level barbarian can use all of their 1/rage powers every round by doing these steps? Or am I missing (or misinterpreting) some rules?

This does seem to make certain rage power combos very brutal as a 1/round tag-team ("Knockdown" from the APG + "Strength Surge" comes to mind)


This came up in a discussion recently in ENworld. I say what I said there: I don't know if is intended, but IMHO is what makes high level barbarian awesome.

This is the post, in the spoiler there are the powers influenced (note that I don't agree with most of the comments).

Level 20 capstone of the barbarian is cool, but not as groundbreaking as other classes'. The fact that the barbarian has this at level 17 is part of the fun of playing an high level barbarian.

I don't know if it was intended, but if works..

Yes, you can do it, but take in mind that many 1/rage powers end when you end the rage.
In any case it is an advantage, an advantage needed to be competitive against high level Fighters with loads of feats and bonuses. In my experience it is balanced, and it is prolly the intended use.

Master Manipulator wrote:
Is this working as intended that a 17th+ level barbarian can use all of their 1/rage powers every round by doing these steps?

Probably not "all" -- many of those powers require some sort of action (e.g. swift/immediate, move, standard or full).

TO expand on Hogarth´s comment, you might notice that if you re-start and then end Rage every round, you are not going to be Raging either off-your-turn (for defensive/AoO type powers) or on-your-turn (affecting your normal actions), which is a trade-off that those NOT restarting Rage everyround don´t have to pay - Restarters can use 1/Rage powers everytime they Restart, but non-Restarters have twice the opportunity to use EVERY Rage Power (more or less/bad comparison but you get the point).

If one wants to REALLY go full-hog, I suppose it might be technically possible to start Rage, take your actions, end Rage, then start Rage again so you can use Rage powers/bonuses off your turn, and end Rage at the beginning of your turn before restarting it again. But that consumes Rage Rounds at 2x/round.

I really don´t see Restarting being widely used EVERY round of combat - At the least, it makes sense if you have multiple 1/Rage powers for you to spend enough time in Rage to use all of them before Restarting, meanwhile getting full (on/off turn) usage of ALL powers (not just 1/x Rage, but constant powers or those limited by action economy only). Of course some situations might just call for using ONE specific 1/x Rage Power repeatedely, but it´s not necessarily something that will be done every fight. The Barbarian actually has a very potent mix of both offensive and defensive (or an offensive defense, but which works off their turn). One of the most potent new Rage Powers in APG, for example, is Come and Get Me which has no per Rage limitation but only works off your turn. Yet if you aren´t Raging on your own turn, you´re not much more than a high level Warrior NPC for those actions. ...I think this ability is balanced, even if powerful (which is good).

BTW This type of tactic is actually available at earlier levels to some extent (possibly only avoiding Fatigue and re-entering Rage one time, for example), you just need to find ways to become immune to Fatigue or be able to remove it - all of which involve investments of resources/class levels/actions, either your own or your helpful allies.

This has been long known / commented upon, so I´m pretty sure Paizo is just fine with how it works.

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