Is there room for a new 3 / 4 BAB non-caster?


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I've been wondering, is there a use for a new 3/4 BAB class that isn't a caster? What role should it fill? Currently we only have rogue and monks (alchemists are casters in denial).

What would be a good class?


I would see a shapechanger class that doesn't rely strictly on magic... but that's about it.


I'd like a nonmagical shapeshifter, too. At most, paladin/ranger spell progression, of a transmutative theme. Animal aspect/form spells would be nicely thematic.


And because I have it readily available this is what I would probably use:

Because it's a class:

BAB/HD: Medium/d8
Good Saves: Fort, Ref, Will
Weapons and Armor: Simple weapons, Light armor (no arcane spell failure)
Skill Points: 4 + Int Mod
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Intimidation, Fly, Knowledge(arcane), Spellcraft, Disguise

Level -- Ability
1 -- Shifting (enlarge/reduce person)
2 -- Alter Form (Darkvision, Stability, Keen Senses, +10 land speed)
3 -- Shifting (alter self)
4 --
5 -- Shifting (beast form 1)
6 -- Improved Shifting (move action)
7 -- Shifting (Beast form 2)
8 -- Critical Resistance 25%
9 -- Shifting (Beast Form 3/ Elemental form 1)
10 -- Alter Form (Claws, Scent, +2 Natural Armor, Water breathing)
11 -- Shifting (Beast Form 4/ Elemental form 2/ Form of the Dragon 1)
12 -- Greater Shifting (swift action)
13 -- Shifting(Elemental form 3/ Form of the Dragon 2)
14 -- Critical Resistance 50%
15 -- Shifting(Form of the Dragon 3/ Giant Shape 1)
16 -- Alter Form (Flight (winged 60' good), Blindsense 60', Fast Healing 3, Poison/Disease Immunity)
17 -- Shifting(Giant Shape 2)
18 --
19 -- Shifting(Shapechange)
20 -- Shapeshifter, Critical Immunity

Shifting(su) -- This functions as if it was the spell named with the following exceptions it is a standard action that does not provoke to activate, and can be used for a total amount of time equal to 10 minutes per level in the Alter class. This time does not need to be used all at once but the minimum time usage is 1 minute. As the Alter advances he can change shape faster (as a move action at 8th level, and a swift action at 12th level), and choose more advanced shapes (see list). See the polymorph subschool description for more information on what is affected by this ability.
Alter Form(ex) -- The Alter gradually learns to permanently change his own body as he gains levels. At each level he gains this ability he may choose one of the abilities on that level's (or a lower level's) list to gain. This change is a racial change and continues to function even if he changes shape with the shifting ability.
Critical Resistance(ex) -- As the Alter gains levels he gains more control of the placement of his organs and vital spots and can shift them to avoid damage. As such he gains increasing resistance to critical hits and precision damage as indicated. This works like the Fortification armor ability.
Shapeshifter(ex) -- at twentieth level the Alter gains the shapeshifter subtype, and his Shifting ability works continuously without limit on the duration.
Spellcasting -- The Alter gains limited spell access as he gains levels. He gains spells at the same rate a paladin does, however he is a spontaneous arcane Cha based caster. He knows all spells on his spell list. Light armor does not interfere with his spells but any heavier armor and shields do.

Spell List
1st:
Disguise Self, Enlarge Person, Reduce Person, Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Magic Fang, Jump, Expeditious Retreat
2nd:
Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Bear's Endurance, Darkvision, Glibness, Barkskin, Resist Energy, Spider Climb
3rd:
Dispel Magic, Haste, Slow, Greater Magic Fang, Shrink Item, Tongues
4th:
Polymorph, Stoneskin, Mass Reduce Person, Mass Enlarge Person, Baneful Polymorph


I have been working on my own full BAB class but 3/4 is a bit harder... Maybe an anti-caster? Ya know gets abilities that absorb magic (in the form of counter spelling) that provide temporary buffs depending on spell level. Maybe just against arcane or divine, I would sure like to give casters something legitimate to fear.


I do like the idea of a 'mage slayer', as it has strong thematic roots, but it runs into a problem: What do you do when you're fighting non-spellcasters?


Umbral Reaver wrote:
I do like the idea of a 'mage slayer', as it has strong thematic roots, but it runs into a problem: What do you do when you're fighting non-spellcasters?

Same thing you do when your a ranger not facing your favored enemy. I suppose you could always add a pool of saved spells to be used against just melee types

Dark Archive

I think the REAL question is, "Is there room for a 1/2 BAB non-spellcaster?"

That would be one HELL of an interesting class, by necessity.


Carbon D. Metric wrote:

I think the REAL question is, "Is there room for a 1/2 BAB non-spellcaster?"

That would be one HELL of an interesting class, by necessity.

Your a mad man!!


It already exists!

It is...

THE COMMONER

:D


Umbral Reaver wrote:
I do like the idea of a 'mage slayer', as it has strong thematic roots, but it runs into a problem: What do you do when you're fighting non-spellcasters?

I find the best mage slayer is the inquisitor.

which has 3/4 BAB and I imagine it will have an archetype to drop the casting (maybe) so there you go.


There is a bunch in the Pathfinder Compatible Freeport :) various Sailors, Nobles, Assassins, and Fighter types...


Midnightoker wrote:
Umbral Reaver wrote:
I do like the idea of a 'mage slayer', as it has strong thematic roots, but it runs into a problem: What do you do when you're fighting non-spellcasters?

I find the best mage slayer is the inquisitor.

which has 3/4 BAB and I imagine it will have an archetype to drop the casting (maybe) so there you go.

Still seems like more fun to use their power against them


Umbral Reaver wrote:

It already exists!

It is...

THE COMMONER

:D

d6 hit die.

1/2 BAB.

No good saves.

LOOK OUT, IT'S SECRETLY A CASTER WITH x/0 SPELLS PER DAY!

OH SHI--


Shadow_of_death wrote:
Midnightoker wrote:
Umbral Reaver wrote:
I do like the idea of a 'mage slayer', as it has strong thematic roots, but it runs into a problem: What do you do when you're fighting non-spellcasters?

I find the best mage slayer is the inquisitor.

which has 3/4 BAB and I imagine it will have an archetype to drop the casting (maybe) so there you go.

Still seems like more fun to use their power against them

trust me dispel magic, and a plethora of other abilities make that very easy to do (not to mention judgements make that easy).

Magic is definitely a fun way to kill a magic user, but you dont have to :)

slap a disruptive feat, spell breaker and teleport tactician (anti mage archetype, lose the teamwork feats) and badabing you have a mage murderer

Dark Archive

my main goal is a new class without a bunch of su/sp/ex abilities.

imho there need to be more classes without magical bs to function.

i like the anticaster, but that seems like a full bab class to me. maybe a ranger archetype even


Name Violation wrote:

my main goal is a new class without a bunch of su/sp/ex abilities.

imho there need to be more classes without magical bs to function.

i like the anticaster, but that seems like a full bab class to me. maybe a ranger archetype even

just take favored enemy spellca$&&%&! at first level.


1/2 BAB non-caster class?

A survivor. Not good at killing, just good at not being killed. Wins battles by attrition.

Toughness and Endurance as bonus feats at first level, and follow along with similar feats later on (like Diehard, Fast Healer, Iron Will, etc). Give constitution bonuses at whatever levels (+1s if you want them frequently, +2 if you want to spread them out more). Damage reduction #/-- is a must. Maybe fast healing at some point, and unless there's a better, then maybe regeneration as a capstone.

EDIT: Somewhere there should be room for immunity to poison/disease/etc... Or at least major bonuses.

And the whole time, they should be able to share this supernatural health with their companions (at the cost of losing the ability themselves).

Give them improved unarmed strike, lots of ranks in survival, and buy up lots of adventuring gear and be that one bad ass dude in the party that walks around the north pole in swim trunks and a tank top.


Foghammer wrote:

1/2 BAB non-caster class?

A survivor. Not good at killing, just good at not being killed. Wins battles by attrition.

Toughness and Endurance as bonus feats at first level, and follow along with similar feats later on (like Diehard, Fast Healer, Iron Will, etc). Give constitution bonuses at whatever levels (+1s if you want them frequently, +2 if you want to spread them out more). Damage reduction #/-- is a must. Maybe fast healing at some point, and unless there's a better, then maybe regeneration as a capstone.

EDIT: Somewhere there should be room for immunity to poison/disease/etc... Or at least major bonuses.

And the whole time, they should be able to share this supernatural health with their companions (at the cost of losing the ability themselves).

Give them improved unarmed strike, lots of ranks in survival, and buy up lots of adventuring gear and be that one bad ass dude in the party that walks around the north pole in swim trunks and a tank top.

not going to lie the monk already does all this.


Only think i could think up was Engineer class..HD 1d8, Skills 8+.. EX abilitys of bard for Knowledge add in Craft, Monks bonus feats.. but for some fighter version 3 feat chains like Combat Expertise chain, or Dodge chain.... and then i ran out of ideas.

Well unless you add in some craft modern items.. like craft weapon, craft vehicular, craft generator, craft airplane,... like you do the magic craft feats.... so you have to be X level before taking the feat. Then craft like a magic item, but only real world stuff allowed.

like i said ran out of ideas


Oliver McShade wrote:

Only think i could think up was Engineer class..HD 1d8, Skills 8+.. EX abilitys of bard for Knowledge add in Craft, Monks bonus feats.. but for some fighter version 3 feat chains like Combat Expertise chain, or Dodge chain.... and then i ran out of ideas.

Well unless you add in some craft modern items.. like craft weapon, craft vehicular, craft generator, craft airplane,... like you do the magic craft feats.... so you have to be X level before taking the feat. Then craft like a magic item, but only real world stuff allowed.

like i said ran out of ideas

personally I foresee an Alchemist Archetype for this... they are pretty close as it is and replacing "extracts" with tech abilities and/or crafting would be awesome

Dark Archive

Midnightoker wrote:
Oliver McShade wrote:

Only think i could think up was Engineer class..HD 1d8, Skills 8+.. EX abilitys of bard for Knowledge add in Craft, Monks bonus feats.. but for some fighter version 3 feat chains like Combat Expertise chain, or Dodge chain.... and then i ran out of ideas.

Well unless you add in some craft modern items.. like craft weapon, craft vehicular, craft generator, craft airplane,... like you do the magic craft feats.... so you have to be X level before taking the feat. Then craft like a magic item, but only real world stuff allowed.

like i said ran out of ideas

personally I foresee an Alchemist Archetype for this... they are pretty close as it is and replacing "extracts" with tech abilities and/or crafting would be awesome

I was thinking the exact same thing. One where they sacrifice mutagens and extracts (Alchemy) for bonuses to any number of other crafts like Blacksmithing or herbalism.

I imagine a "Graft" ability to integrate mechanical and quasi-magical components into your own body.


Abraham spalding wrote:

And because I have it readily available this is what I would probably use:

** spoiler omitted **...

I would suggest you note that shifting counts as wildshape for the purposes of feats and magic that way you can use aspect of the beast and wild armor :)


Carbon D. Metric wrote:


personally I foresee an Alchemist Archetype for this... they are pretty close as it is and replacing "extracts" with tech abilities and/or crafting would be awesome

I was thinking the exact same thing. One where they sacrifice mutagens and extracts (Alchemy) for bonuses to any number of other crafts like Blacksmithing or herbalism.

I imagine a "Graft" ability to integrate mechanical and quasi-magical components into your own body.

Someone did this on the boards, can't recall who but it was pretty well done.

Edit: Here it is, it was done by hida_jiremi


No, I don't think there's much room for that in the game. We really only have one now (Rogue), not two, because monk is built to use full BAB whenever possible.

Rogue can manage to be a mix of fighting/skilled because:
Sneak Attack - an entirely different way of dealing damage than any other class uses.
Traps, locks, etc. - An iconic skillset made to solve problems that exist in the game largely because Rogues exist in the game.
Tradition - A lot of people play rogues just because they like rogues and any new class would not have that going for it.


Name Violation wrote:

my main goal is a new class without a bunch of su/sp/ex abilities.

imho there need to be more classes without magical bs to function.

i like the anticaster, but that seems like a full bab class to me. maybe a ranger archetype even

Problem. Everything in the game is su/sp/ex. Hell, Feats, unless otherwise specified, are ex.


Foghammer wrote:

1/2 BAB non-caster class?

A survivor. Not good at killing, just good at not being killed. Wins battles by attrition.

Toughness and Endurance as bonus feats at first level, and follow along with similar feats later on (like Diehard, Fast Healer, Iron Will, etc). Give constitution bonuses at whatever levels (+1s if you want them frequently, +2 if you want to spread them out more). Damage reduction #/-- is a must. Maybe fast healing at some point, and unless there's a better, then maybe regeneration as a capstone.

EDIT: Somewhere there should be room for immunity to poison/disease/etc... Or at least major bonuses.

And the whole time, they should be able to share this supernatural health with their companions (at the cost of losing the ability themselves).

Give them improved unarmed strike, lots of ranks in survival, and buy up lots of adventuring gear and be that one bad ass dude in the party that walks around the north pole in swim trunks and a tank top.

What about to turn this a bit around?

Anathema

An untouchable character that can deny various effects and even physical contact. Push enemies away by sheer presence. Will things not to be.


Name Violation wrote:

I've been wondering, is there a use for a new 3/4 BAB class that isn't a caster? What role should it fill? Currently we only have rogue and monks (alchemists are casters in denial).

What would be a good class?

That depends on what their non-spell-casting abilities are, and by non-spell-caster do you mean non-magical as well?

Currently the non-magical classes are pretty much restricted to:

Barbarian (so long as non-supernatural rage powers are selected)
Fighter
Rogue (without magical rogue talents)
possibly monk, but they have supernatural powers that are 'magical' as well.

So other than hit things or concentrate on skills what is there? Possibly the option to have a skills-monkey that isn't a rogue as such, a kind of super-expert class? Of necessity I can see it falling into the rogue's roll though.

Another kind of fighter? Without full BAB I cannot see that working.

If it's a magical, non-spell-casting class, then you are effectively inventing a new form of magic.


I'm currently working on the masque, a 3/4 BAB master of disguise with minor spellcasting progression across 4 levels of spells. It seems to be shaping up nicely, and the second round of feedback from playtesters is becoming increasingly positive.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Possible new Non-Spellcasters:

Engineer - Comes with a robot, puts together nifty non-magical items, has a gift for gun-powder. A sort of Summoner without the spells, and alchemist without the pseudo-magic. Strong Steampunk roots, with a touch of McGuyver..

Shapeshifter - Doesn't use magic at all (other than the supernatural ability to shapeshift from level 1). The shapeshifter has strong roots in folklore, but with a hint of comic book shapeshifters like Beast Boy and Mystique.

Explorer - Sorta like the ranger without the spells, or the favoured enemy. The explorer is brilliant at finding his way into trouble, and getting his butt out of it. The explorer is a versatile character, but not focused on Sneak Attack like the rogue, instead using the Dirty Trick manoeuvre in surprising new ways to debuff their opponent. Solo they do so to make an escape, in a party they give the fighter and the rogue the opportunity to do their thing. Think Indiana Jones, Rick O'Connell or any number of "lucky" heroes.

Brawler - Unlike the Monk, the brawler is not a disciplined warrior focusing on the power of the mind. Instead he's a dirty street fighter with a talent for fighting to win. The brawler tends to hit where it hurts. He's pretty good with an improvised weapon, getting a lot more out of it than anyone else can, but he's happy to use his fists and his stompin' boots to get the job done. Action Movies are filled with this guy. This guy would probably be full BAB though.

Swashbuckler - The archetypes haven't really cut it yet. We all know what this guy is supposed to be like. Acrobatic, stylish and able to use a one-handed weapon like a true genius. Jack Sparrow, Captain Blood, (or practically any Errol Flynn character), The Dread Pirate Roberts. We all want to play this person, the charisma of a bard, the prowess of a warrior. This one might be a full BAB as well.

Noble/Courtier - An inspirational leader, a fast-talking liar and a brilliant diplomat rolled into one. The Noble is a master manipulator on every level, taking great advantage of their charismatic nature, intelligent insight and wise counsel. A noble provides a non-magical variant for the Bard in many ways. Princesses, Noble Lords and destined Kings are all good candidates for members of this class.

Scarab Sages

+1 to a non spell casting shapeshifter, maybe mix wildshape with the shapeshifter and infiltraitor abilities from the ranger archtypes...

I would still love to see something akin to the Jack of all Trades in the black company guide book. High skill points, bonus feats, and the ability to "copy" other peoples skills/feats.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Generally speaking, based on Rogue and Monk, a 3/4 BAB spell-less character is primarily a skillmonkey (or have other kind of special schtick) who provides solid combat support as well (emphasis on support; they will not do the most damage all the time, but, well-played, they will contribute invaluably to combat and party tactics).

There isn't much that these classes can't already do... especially with the Rogue and its archetypes.... but I like some of Dudemeister's ideas, with some comments below:

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Possible new Non-Spellcasters:

Engineer - Comes with a robot, puts together nifty non-magical items, has a gift for gun-powder. A sort of Summoner without the spells, and alchemist without the pseudo-magic. Strong Steampunk roots, with a touch of McGuyver..

I like this idea a lot. I was going to say I don't want to see "robots" in Pathfinder, and then I reminded myself I am using advanced clockworks in part of my own homebrew world and recently wrote up stats for a clockwork automaton.

You could look to the Sparks of Girl Genius for inspiration for a class like this. The Inventors in the Suikoden games (if anyone here has ever heard of those) also come to mind.

It wouldn't suit every campaign but fill a niche in certain types of fantasy.

Quote:


Explorer - Sorta like the ranger without the spells, or the favoured enemy. The explorer is brilliant at finding his way into trouble, and getting his butt out of it. The explorer is a versatile character, but not focused on Sneak Attack like the rogue, instead using the Dirty Trick manoeuvre in surprising new ways to debuff their opponent. Solo they do so to make an escape, in a party they give the fighter and the rogue the opportunity to do their thing. Think Indiana Jones, Rick O'Connell or any number of "lucky" heroes.

Nethack's archeologist (inspired by Indy) comes to mind. OTOH, I think there's a number of rogue and bard archetypes that already cover this. I like the idea of a luck mechanic though. I recall the Star Wars Scoundrel had something like this.

Quote:


Brawler - Unlike the Monk, the brawler is not a disciplined warrior focusing on the power of the mind. Instead he's a dirty street fighter with a talent for fighting to win. The brawler tends to hit where it hurts. He's pretty good with an improvised weapon, getting a lot more out of it than anyone else can, but he's happy to use his fists and his stompin' boots to get the job done. Action Movies are filled with this guy. This guy would probably be full BAB though.

I would say definitely full BAB. You could also do this as a Fighter archetype. But I think there does need to be some kind of well-written brawler type warrior that neither a straight up Fighter as written or a monk can do well (because combat is only one aspect of the monk, and this would just be all about the pummeling).

Quote:


Swashbuckler - The archetypes haven't really cut it yet. We all know what this guy is supposed to be like. Acrobatic, stylish and able to use a one-handed weapon like a true genius. Jack Sparrow, Captain Blood, (or practically any Errol Flynn character), The Dread Pirate Roberts. We all want to play this person, the charisma of a bard, the prowess of a warrior. This one might be a full BAB as well.

I disagree here. With Rogue, Fighter, Bard, the Duelist PrC, and various archetypes thereof I see absolutely no need for a separate swashbuckler class.

Quote:


Noble/Courtier - An inspirational leader, a fast-talking liar and a brilliant diplomat rolled into one. The Noble is a master manipulator on every level, taking great advantage of their charismatic nature, intelligent insight and wise counsel. A noble provides a non-magical variant for the Bard in many ways. Princesses, Noble Lords and destined Kings are all good candidates for members of this class.

I started writing a Noble class up for a specific game idea, and taking inspiration (and some downright stealing from) the Noble class in Slayers d20. I'll have to see if I can dig it up.


Funny, just after getting up today I started thinking about Sage as noncaster class for PF with either d6 or d8 and lots of nonmagical abilities selectable from larger amount of abilities. And what I find when I look on forum? This thread...


Zmar wrote:

Anathema

An untouchable character that can deny various effects and even physical contact. Push enemies away by sheer presence. Will things not to be.

I like this better. :O I'm imagining an ability that allows them to make a will save X times per day to be able to say "That didn't really happen."

I can see how that first thing sounds like a monk... But I didn't imagine it like that at all. But now I want to play a monk and refluff it, make it not so... monk-ish.


I took a shot at a ½ Non-Caster
Confidence Artist

Since it was not a ninja, no one seemed the least bit interested.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm not sure a class that gets a bunch of SLAs can really be termed a non-caster. Just sayin'.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'm not sure a class that gets a bunch of SLAs can really be termed a non-caster. Just sayin'.

I believe that is a fair assessment. So basically, you have Fighter, Rogue and everyone else.


Roll combat abilities into a Skill and you can even do away with the Fighter.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Never thought of it that way, but it really is true.


Shapeshifter is a great idea, something like the 3.5 PhB2 Shapeshift Druid with more forms and some ranger-like stuff instead of spells

I really enjoyed the Dragon Shaman, a non-caster with Aura's to support the group, somthing like a bard with different flavor

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

+1 to the Noble. I'd envision a non-magical, non-musical class that buffs party members. Something on the order of the 3.5 Marshal class, but less martially-focused. Hands out plusses like a bard, but can give different party members different bonuses. All the "face man" skills, plus (Ex) abilities revolving around the use of social influence, contacts, favors, wheeling and dealing, etc. Combat abilities would be mainly defensive in nature--avoiding attacks by means of threatening presence and sanctity of person. EDIT: Plus a couple levels would ideally stack well on monsters to build "boss" monsters that make their mooks more effective through synergy.

If you want to do a great noble or leader with the existing classes, you're pretty much limited to bard or cavalier (or aristocrat, which is an NPC class for a reason), both of which pigeonhole the concept too much.


One way to expand on the Noble idea might be to play with vassals/troops/contacts etc etc.

Yes this somewhat works with the leadership feat, but that requires hitting level 6 to acquire, is frequently banned, and is a lot harder to work with than an actual class.

I can see a lot of potential in this actually. If I didn't already have so many homebrewing projects I'd get started on it.


Charlie Bell wrote:

+1 to the Noble. I'd envision a non-magical, non-musical class that buffs party members. Something on the order of the 3.5 Marshal class, but less martially-focused. Hands out plusses like a bard, but can give different party members different bonuses. All the "face man" skills, plus (Ex) abilities revolving around the use of social influence, contacts, favors, wheeling and dealing, etc. Combat abilities would be mainly defensive in nature--avoiding attacks by means of threatening presence and sanctity of person. EDIT: Plus a couple levels would ideally stack well on monsters to build "boss" monsters that make their mooks more effective through synergy.

If you want to do a great noble or leader with the existing classes, you're pretty much limited to bard or cavalier (or aristocrat, which is an NPC class for a reason), both of which pigeonhole the concept too much.

You might want to look at the Noble's Handbook from Green Ronin. It is for 3.5, but should be usbale with minor tweaking. My main objection to it was that it was automatically the head of an organization that grew in power as the Noble character leveled up.

There is a Pathfinder-ized version of the same in the Freeport Companion for Pathfinder, also from Green Ronin. It lacks the attached organization, and instead has some selectable bonuses that the character tailor for depth in one or more broad support in all (sort of like Ranger favored enemies).


I like the idea of a dedicated shapeshifter, but I'd want it to be a full BAB class.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

kyrt-ryder wrote:

One way to expand on the Noble idea might be to play with vassals/troops/contacts etc etc.

Yes this somewhat works with the leadership feat, but that requires hitting level 6 to acquire, is frequently banned, and is a lot harder to work with than an actual class.

The Slayers d20 Noble class gave them Leadership as a bonus feat, and an enhanced Leadership ability (gathering more followers) as they leveled. This, some bard-like inspirational skills, and some abilities to do with recognition and buying things on credit made a very interesting class.

Still can't find the Pathfinder conversion I did....

Dark Archive

I would like to see a Monster-Killer class stated out with 3/4 BAB and D8 HD.

Something that functions along the lines of a Fighter, Rogue and Ranger.

All good saves, gets bonus to hit vs. more monsters initially (and only monsters: aberrations, dragons, fey, giants (as sub), magical beasts, oozes, outsiders and undead) and at a faster pace than the ranger. Also would get bonuses to save, AC and to confirm hits vs. chosen enemies. This would help in the BAB dept vs. many foes.

No SLAs, just good sets of resistances and maybe a mechanic related to extra saves. Maybe a list on monster-killer talents akin to the rogue talents (and to help with survivability).

Just an idea.


Actually, a lot of the ideas bandied about in the last few posts are in the Freeport Companion. Here are the base classes in the book:

Assassin: 3/4 BAB, d8 HD, Good Fort and Ref saves, 6 skil points. This is an update of the class from the Assassin's Handbook (for 3.0). All abilities are Ex, and include Poison use and Backstab (like Rogue's Sneak Attack).

Corsair: Full BAB, d10 HD, Good Fort and Ref saves, 4 skill points. All abilities are Ex. Theme: A Roguish-Fighter.

Monster Hunter: Full BAB, d10 HD, Good Fort and Will saves, 4 skill points. Every even level can choose an ability based on hunting a particular creature type (Fey, Dragon, Aberration, etc.). There are three abiltiies for each type, which must be taken in order (Apprentice, Journeyman, and Master). Some specialties are all Ex abilities, while others mix Ex, Sp, and Su.

Noble: 3/4 BAB, d8 HD, Good Ref and Will saves, 6 skill points, Leadership feat, followers, boost for allies, incidental minor magical abilities.

Survivor: Full BAB, d12 HD, Good Fort save, 4 skill points, No magical abilities, lots of protections.

Even if only to raid for ideas, the book is a pretty good one. There are also feats and spells, of course, that are worth considering.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Another idea that fits with the 3/4 BAB.

A Pathfinder Base Class.

3/4 BAB
2 good saves (Ref/Will)
6 + Int skill points
Appraise, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Engineering), Knowledge (Arcana), Perception, UMD, And more(I'm doing this off the top of my head)

A bit of a cross between Bard, Rogue, and fighter otherwise.


In another thread talking about prestige classes and the want to get rid of them totally , I discussed to have a Shape Shifter base class that would have different archetypes ,one of them being dragon-esque to take the place of the dragon disciple. (sort of the way the magus does what the EK does)

you could have dragon-shifter, wolf-shifter, camel-shifter, whatever based on the archetype.

my 10th level camel-shifter hits you with his +8 spit!

Dark Archive

Tim Statler wrote:

Another idea that fits with the 3/4 BAB.

A Pathfinder Base Class.

3/4 BAB
2 good saves (Ref/Will)
6 + Int skill points
Appraise, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Engineering), Knowledge (Arcana), Perception, UMD, And more(I'm doing this off the top of my head)

A bit of a cross between Bard, Rogue, and fighter otherwise.

THIS! OMG +5 Vorpal

I honestly don't know how we haven't REALLY thought of it yet in this thread.

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