For purposes of the Channel Energy class ability, how should a Dhampyr be treated: humanoid or undead?
For purposes of the Channel Energy class ability, how should a Dhampyr be treated: humanoid or undead?
They have the humanoid subtype, so they are treated as Humanoid.
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Negative Energy Affinity (Ex) The creature is alive, but reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead - positive energy harms it, negative energy heals it.
Channel Energy (Su): Regardless of alignment, any cleric can release a wave of energy by channeling the power of her faith through her holy (or unholy) symbol. This energy can be used to cause or heal damage, depending on the type of energy channeled and the creatures targeted. A good cleric (or one who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures. An evil cleric (or one who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures.
Don't know what the official ruling will be, but I'd consider them undead for the channel energy, since it specifies that they react to positive and negative energy as if they were undead instead of living creatures.
And Thanatos, FYI: Their type is humanoid, their subtype is Dhampyr
well their negative energy affinity ability treats them as an undead, healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy.
Well, then by all means--let someone play a dhampyr in a party with a good-aligned cleric. <g>
It gets really complicated. If a cleric releases positive energy to do damage, does it affect the dhampyre negatively, treating him as undead? If the cleric channels to heal does it negatively affect the dhampyr? I believe the former, but could be both. If it is both, then the dhampyr is also affected by both versions of negative energy channel. This makes for a nasty neutral or evil cleric who can channel to hurt his enemies and heal himself.
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It gets really complicated. If a cleric releases positive energy to do damage, does it affect the dhampyre negatively, treating him as undead? If the cleric channels to heal does it negatively affect the dhampyr? I believe the former, but could be both. If it is both, then the dhampyr is also affected by both versions of negative energy channel. This makes for a nasty neutral or evil cleric who can channel to hurt his enemies and heal himself.
From what it sounds like, the dhampyr is treated as if he were undead. So if the Good cleric channels to heal, it won't affect him at all (as it would not affect a zombie or a skeleton). If the cleric channels to damage, then it will hurt him just like other undead.
It gets really complicated. If a cleric releases positive energy to do damage, does it affect the dhampyre negatively, treating him as undead? If the cleric channels to heal does it negatively affect the dhampyr? I believe the former, but could be both. If it is both, then the dhampyr is also affected by both versions of negative energy channel. This makes for a nasty neutral or evil cleric who can channel to hurt his enemies and heal himself.From what it sounds like, the dhampyr is treated as if he were undead. So if the Good cleric channels to heal, it won't affect him at all (as it would not affect a zombie or a skeleton). If the cleric channels to damage, then it will hurt him just like other undead.
I think so as well, but it's not spelled out in the power, so it's ambiguous.
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I dunno, it seems fairly clear cut to me.
"Negative Energy Affinity (Ex) The creature is alive, but reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead - positive energy harms it, negative energy heals it."
If a cleric channels energy around it, treat the dhampir as if it were undead and react appropriately. If the cleric channeled positive energy to harm the dhampir, it harms it. If the cleric channeled positive energy to heal, it doesn't affect the dhampir.
:S
I dunno, it seems fairly clear cut to me.
"Negative Energy Affinity (Ex) The creature is alive, but reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead - positive energy harms it, negative energy heals it."If a cleric channels energy around it, treat the dhampir as if it were undead and react appropriately. If the cleric channeled positive energy to harm the dhampir, it harms it. If the cleric channeled positive energy to heal, it doesn't affect the dhampir.
:S
Yeah that seems rather clear cut to me as well.
I agree, it seems (emphasis on seems) cut and dry. I've seen too many people on here taking one sentence out of a paragraph and claiming it means the sky is mauve. And they refuse to cross-reference two related items. I just wish the power was specific in and of itself on the point.
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I've got to agree with mdt that negative energy affinity is ambiguously worded.
Channel positive energy hurts dhampyrs as if they were undead, and channel negative energy heals them as if they were undead.Channel positive energy always hurts dhampyrs as if they were undead, or only when it's being used to affect undead? Channel negative energy always heals them as if they were undead, or only when it is being used to affect undead?
Does checking to see if the dhampyr would be affected by a channel effect count as "reacting" to the channel effect, or does the effect have to actually affect the dhampyr first before the "react" clause of negative energy affinity is invoked?
I don't know. I was certainly confused. It seems I was reading the ability an entirely different way than it was intended.
To me, it was perfectly logical that an ability involving "reacting" to channeled energy wouldn't resolve until after it was independently determined whether or not the energy in question was "acting" on the creature in the first place. You can't have a reaction unless something is acting on you in the first place.
I have to agree wth Karui Kage that it's pretty clear.
Chanelling positive energy to heal has absoltely no effect on undead, so would have exactly the same effect on Dhampirs, i.e. none. Same applies to channeling negatve energy to harm. It has no effect, either way on undead so would equally have no effect on Dhampirs. Why are people adding rules to the base rules that confuse the issue?
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I have to agree wth Karui Kage that it's pretty clear.
Chanelling positive energy to heal has absoltely no effect on undead, so would have exactly the same effect on Dhampirs, i.e. none. Same applies to channeling negatve energy to harm. It has no effect, either way on undead so would equally have no effect on Dhampirs. Why are people adding rules to the base rules that confuse the issue?
The reason it DOESN'T work that way is because channeling would end up selecting the Dhampirs as though they are normal humanoids to affect them BEFORE applying any healing/damage effect. Because of the wording of the negative energy affinity the only thing that changes with them is how they are affected by the type of energy that hits them.
Channel to heal humanoids - Harms Dhampirs
Channel to harm humanoids - Heals Dhampirs
Channel to anything else - No effect
So is the General Consensus that because Dhampir's are Humanoids. When a Cleric Channels Positive Energy for his Friends, the Dhampir better not be around or excluded via Selective Channeling?
You choose to harm or heal. You can't do both, even by accident.
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So is the General Consensus that because Dhampir's are Humanoids. When a Cleric Channels Positive Energy for his Friends, the Dhampir better not be around or excluded via Selective Channeling?
Do you see a general consensus here?
Dhampirs are affected as undead by channelled energy. If a cleric channels positive energy to heal living creatures, it has no effect on undead. Nothing happens to the dhampir and Selective Channelling is not required.
Dhampirs are affected as undead by channelled energy. If a cleric channels positive energy to heal living creatures, it has no effect on undead. Nothing happens to the dhampir and Selective Channelling is not required.
So to be clear, when a Dhampir antipaladin channels negative energy, he has to choose between channeling to heal himself (and any undead pals he may have) or channeling to harm living people. He doesn't do both at the same time.
Correct?
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Dhampirs are affected as undead by channelled energy. If a cleric channels positive energy to heal living creatures, it has no effect on undead. Nothing happens to the dhampir and Selective Channelling is not required.So to be clear, when a Dhampir antipaladin channels negative energy, he has to choose between channeling to heal himself (and any undead pals he may have) or channeling to harm living people. He doesn't do both at the same time.
Correct?
Correct.
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problem is that the dhampir is ALIVE and not an undead.
So, if the good cleric channels to heal, he affects the living creatures (and so the dhampir, that is a LIVING creature with a problem with positive energy).
SO imho the dhampir will be affected negatively by it (and so damaged by the positive channeling).
If the good cleric uses his channeling to affect undeads (deads) he doesnt do nothing to the dhampir, since he is a LIVING creature.
If an evil cleric uses the channeling to harm living creatures, the dhampir is not affected by the damage and instead is healed by the channeling that heals the undead (as per his powers)
imho that's how i read it
Correct.Dhampirs are affected as undead by channelled energy. If a cleric channels positive energy to heal living creatures, it has no effect on undead. Nothing happens to the dhampir and Selective Channelling is not required.So to be clear, when a Dhampir antipaladin channels negative energy, he has to choose between channeling to heal himself (and any undead pals he may have) or channeling to harm living people. He doesn't do both at the same time.
Correct?
This leads to an interesting work-around.
If the Dhampyr was that Positive Channeling Cleric - would he/she be allowed to exclude themselves from the channel (Much the same way a Negative Channeling Cleric can normally exclude themselves)?
This would lead to one of the few situations where a Good Cleric could prepare Inflict spells.
problem is that the dhampir is ALIVE and not an undead.
Yes, but he's treated AS an undead per his racial trait.
So, if the good cleric channels to heal, he affects the living creatures (and so the dhampir, that is a LIVING creature with a problem with positive energy).
No, it would not affect the Dhampir at all.
The Cleric is channeling to heal humanoids. Jolly good. It heals humanoids that are healed by positive energy.
The Dhampir is a humanoid, but he is not healed by positive energy. However, you must choose whether to heal OR harm, never both.
Channeling to heal does not harm things. Period. Channeling to harm does not heal things. Period.
Channeling to heal living heals creatures that are healed by positive energy, and does not heal creatures that are not harmed by positive energy.
Likewise, channeling to harm harms creatures that are harmed by positive energy, and does not harm creatures that are not harmed by positive energy.
If there was an undead with "Positive Energy Affinity", channeling to harm would have no effect on it.
Dhamphir have acces to a feat that will allow them to receive healing from positive energy, though they will still get damaged from positive energy meant to harm.
This seems really clear cut to me tbh
If the Dhampyr was that Positive Channeling Cleric - would he/she be allowed to exclude themselves from the channel (Much the same way a Negative Channeling Cleric can normally exclude themselves)?
You can always choose to exclude yourself from your own channel.
If the Dhampyr was that Positive Channeling Cleric - would he/she be allowed to exclude themselves from the channel (Much the same way a Negative Channeling Cleric can normally exclude themselves)?You can always choose to exclude yourself from your own channel.
Logical. There was just never a reason to do so before (for a positive channeling cleric).
So, if someone were to play a Dhampyr in a good party, he/she really wants to be the Cleric. :)
Based on the FAQ the intent doesn't matter positive energy would harm and negative energy would heal a Dhampyr.
What FAQ is that?
how come releasing a gigantic explosion of negative energy can be used to harm living or heal undead, but not both? if i released a gigantic explosion of fire on top of my party while fighting a fire elemental, i promise the dm would rule it to cure the elemental and damage my team.
Because it was play-tested during the Beta as doing both, and Undead encounters became rather trivial - it was simply too strong to allow it to do both.
As for fire healing fire elementals, that would be a home-game DM house rule.
Dread Knight: The negative energy affinity ability states "as if it were undead" - Undead are only harmed by channeling that is directed to harm undead, not by channeling directed to heal the living. Cure and Inflict spells would act as expected, because they are not target specific when cast. The ability was errata'd since the original release to make it clearer FYI.
Now here's a conundrum for you all: How about a Dhampir Synthesist summoner? The Dhampir, is treated as if it's undead, but the eidolon is alive (unless he takes the evolution that gives him undead-like abilities). Is he healed or harmed by both kinds of energy?
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problem is that the dhampir is ALIVE and not an undead.Yes, but he's treated AS an undead per his racial trait.
So, if the good cleric channels to heal, he affects the living creatures (and so the dhampir, that is a LIVING creature with a problem with positive energy).No, it would not affect the Dhampir at all.
The Cleric is channeling to heal humanoids. Jolly good. It heals humanoids that are healed by positive energy.
The Dhampir is a humanoid, but he is not healed by positive energy. However, you must choose whether to heal OR harm, never both.
Channeling to heal does not harm things. Period. Channeling to harm does not heal things. Period.
Channeling to heal living heals creatures that are healed by positive energy, and does not heal creatures that are not harmed by positive energy.
Likewise, channeling to harm harms creatures that are harmed by positive energy, and does not harm creatures that are not harmed by positive energy.
If there was an undead with "Positive Energy Affinity", channeling to harm would have no effect on it.
But, you see, thius is where some of us see it as a different thing.
The Cleric/Oracle of Life/Paladin channels energy to either affect living or affect undead.
Negative Energy Affinity says that the being with said affinity is not treated as a living being according to the FAQ. Which is more than a little bit non-intuitive, to me at least.
A channel to affect living affects the living, with the actual effect determined by whether the channeler uses positive or negative energy, and as modified by racial abilities.
But that is a discussion which has long been over. The FAQ says that you can, apparently, Turn or Control Undead a living creature with Negative Energy Affinity.
What FAQ is that?
Negative Energy Affinity: How is this ability (Bestiary 2, page 299) supposed to work?
The intent of this ability is that the creature is healed by negative energy (like an undead) and harmed by positive energy (like an undead); this is automatic and has nothing to do with the intent of the target or the energy-wielder. However, as written, the ability is a bit confusing because of the phrase “reacts to,” which doesn’t have a clear definition. This ability will be changed in the next printing of Bestiary 2.
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What FAQ is that?Negative Energy Affinity: How is this ability (Bestiary 2, page 299) supposed to work?
The intent of this ability is that the creature is healed by negative energy (like an undead) and harmed by positive energy (like an undead); this is automatic and has nothing to do with the intent of the target or the energy-wielder. However, as written, the ability is a bit confusing because of the phrase “reacts to,” which doesn’t have a clear definition. This ability will be changed in the next printing of Bestiary 2.
The key words are "like an undead". Imagine that the Dhampir is undead and have him react the same to the channelled energy.
The key words are "like an undead". Imagine that the Dhampir is undead and have him react the same to the channelled energy.What FAQ is that?Negative Energy Affinity: How is this ability (Bestiary 2, page 299) supposed to work?
The intent of this ability is that the creature is healed by negative energy (like an undead) and harmed by positive energy (like an undead); this is automatic and has nothing to do with the intent of the target or the energy-wielder. However, as written, the ability is a bit confusing because of the phrase “reacts to,” which doesn’t have a clear definition. This ability will be changed in the next printing of Bestiary 2.
The key words are "has nothing to do with the intent of the target or energy-wielder".
Then why even put the words "like an undead" in there in the first place?
Considering that is distinctly NOT how Channel Energy works on undead and all.
It would be much easier and more fitting fluff wise if the dhampir was an undead with an exception when if comes to available alignment.
Then why even put the words "like an undead" in there in the first place?
Considering that is distinctly NOT how Channel Energy works on undead and all.
And that's exactly why we need some errata on that.
People should also read up on how Channel Energy works, of course.
Since normally negative energy heals undead and positive harms them. I don't know I didn't write it.
I personally would have written it like this. Negative Energy Affinity: A creature with Negative Energy Affinity is healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy and is living for targeting for things such as Channel Energy. Or some other very similar wording.
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It would be much easier and more fitting fluff wise if the dhampir was an undead with an exception when if comes to available alignment.
Then you would be able to Turn or Command a dhampir (even a PC). Which is definitely not the intent of Negative Energy Affinity.
Since a dhampir is a living creature and treated as such for all purpose except the use of positive or negative energy to heal or harm, it is far simpler (and more efficient) to word it specifically as an exception.
My take on it :
Negative Energy Affinity: A creature with Negative Energy Affinity is treated like an undead when negative or positive energy is used to heal or harm it.