I heard, somewhere on the boards, that Paizo was thinking about updating some of their older APs (Rise of the Runelords, specifically) from 3.5 to PFRPG. Is this true? If so, that would be awesome. I would love to see them re-imagined, with the differing xp system and classes taken into account.
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I heard, somewhere on the boards, that Paizo was thinking about updating some of their older APs (Rise of the Runelords, specifically) from 3.5 to PFRPG. Is this true? If so, that would be awesome. I would love to see them re-imagined, with the differing xp system and classes taken into account.
Yah. But it will be down the road (look at least 3-5 years+) and a possibly once-in-a-lifetime anniversary edition. Or something to that effect.
I´d guess your best bet is still getting the pdfs and converting it yourself. I think there should even be some conversions around somewhere.
Greetings, fellow travellers.
If you need the conversion for leading the AP, there are plenty of information in the specific AP threads on the boards.
Also, you could check the pfsrd.com, where there are conversions to be found for several modules:
Adventure Path conversions @ PFSRD
Ruyan.
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Greetings, fellow travellers.
If you need the conversion for leading the AP, there are plenty of information in the specific AP threads on the boards.
Also, you could check the pfsrd.com, where there are conversions to be found for several modules:Adventure Path conversions @ PFSRD
Ruyan.
Thank you! I was looking everywhere for this. ok, nearly everywhere
I'd love to see updated PF version of older APs. I'd definitely buy them.
Beastiary 2 is suppossed to update many of the monsters in the first 3 APs so that will make it easier as well.
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Greetings, fellow travellers.
If you need the conversion for leading the AP, there are plenty of information in the specific AP threads on the boards.
Also, you could check the pfsrd.com, where there are conversions to be found for several modules:Adventure Path conversions @ PFSRD
Ruyan.
Thank you for linking this! We're going through Burnt Offerings now, and this saves me alot of time. :D
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Beastiary 2 is suppossed to update many of the monsters in the first 3 APs so that will make it easier as well.
We plan to update all monsters/NPC's that use monsters or templates in Bestiary 2 as soon as we make the content "live." We're almost done with getting everything from B2 pretty and all linkified but we will not be posting before January 14th.
Everyone is encouraged to buy the book before then. The art is insanely cool and the book is all sorts of pretty.
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I would assume 6 90 page AP books, updated to Pathfinder rules. reformated. To put all the extra in the back. Likely some updates some, maybe a bit more new stuff etc. I would assume such a HB would cost 100 bucks or more.Define "wildly expensive," please.
:)
MSRP $99.95 was about what I was expecting for a 5-year anniversary RotRL hardback.
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I'd pay anywhere between $80 to $120 for a HC collected edition of Rise of the Runelords.
$80 for just a basic update to PFRPG rules, without much in the way of new content.
$100 for the basic update, and a CD with a chapter-by-chapter PDF to go along with it.
$120 for the bells and whistles - Maps, PDF CD, some nifty stuff like Shackled City HC Edition had back in the day (Shackled City is still waiting to be played, but I'm happy I bought it).
If it could come out before the end of Jade Regent for a possible Back-To-Back campaign that'd be just gravy.
Let me see... each adventure has about 50-60 pages, that would make 300-360 pages (roughly). Add the players guide at 16 pages, and some additional material, we are at about 400 pages. I don´t expect the whole 96 page original books to be reprinted, as there was some material not needed for the adventures. The Shackled City HC clocks in at 416 pages and originally 60 bucks asking price, including one additional new adventure. RotRL would need a re-editing to fit it to the PF rules. So, if this would include the re-edited adventures, the players guide and some background info, it should end up at about the same price as the SC HC, say up to 70$ (allowing for price adjustments), for a "standard" version. A "de luxe" version could include the content on a CD and perhaps the map folio contents as well, which is still available for 15$ - then we are easily at 100$ or more, depending upon how the pdfs are valued. A full pdf of one book is set at 14$, so if you take an adventure pdf at about 10$, we are talking about another 60$. I´d say 120$+ might be a bit much asking. So, you might have standard version, a deluxe version and perhaps a bundle with the map folio added, prices could be 60-70$, 90-100$ and 100-110$ respectively, with quite a discount on the pdfs - but a subscriber gets the pdfs for free.
Mind you, this is only if the adventures are re-edited to fit the stats to the PF rules. If the adventures would be reworked to include the informations gathered in the three years since the AP was originally published, it would be a huge task and would result in a more expensive product, easily adding 20$+ to the price.
Stefan
Add the players guide at 16 pages
Why would Player's Guide be in a DM's book?
I would gladly pay 100$ for hardcover Legacy of Fire. The only reason my group didn't play RotR or CotCT is that it's a drag to convert it to PF (and why bother, when we have new PF APs?). If it would get updated, we'd easily split the costs between us and bought all of the older APs to play them eventually.
Add the players guide at 16 pagesWhy would Player's Guide be in a DM's book?
Well, it could be more of a Players handout - but I looked at the players guide right now, and I don´t see really that much that warrants its inclusion. Much of its content was background information, a few pieces of new equipment and a few feats, probably all of it meanwhile reprinted elsewhere. So, its probably not needed here, at least not in full.
Stefan
In my case, "wildly expensive" would mean "more expensive than buying all of the individual components by themselves". YMMV.
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With the Bestiary 2 covering most of the monsters from the first three APs there's not much conversion work needed. I'm running a RotRL game that ran thru no less than 6 systems (3.5, A1, A2, A3, Beta, final PF) with heavy use of 3PP and 3.5/3.0 material and I never ran into any major "backwards compatibility" issues.
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I heard, somewhere on the boards, that Paizo was thinking about updating some of their older APs (Rise of the Runelords, specifically) from 3.5 to PFRPG. Is this true? If so, that would be awesome. I would love to see them re-imagined, with the differing xp system and classes taken into account.I hope Paizo doesn't bother doing this. RotRL is done and available if people want it. 3.5 and PFRPG are thisclose on rules. I hope Paizo does not waste resources on this and keeps focusing on new things.
Paizo went to such great lengths to keep PFRPG and 3.5 compatible and now they seem to be getting more and more requests to "update" 3.5 material. What a shame.
WoTC releases a new version that is not compatible with the old version and they get slammed and abandoned. Paizo keeps the new version fully compatible with the old and gets inundated with requests to "update" old material to the new version. You just can't win. ;)
Some people want it cause you can't buy the books anymore except on ebay. Others like me would like to see them go back and tweak it. It was the very first AP they did. I am sure in hindsight there is a few things they would likely have done a little different today than they did. Not to mention if we convince them to do it, you just know they will add a little something new. Who knows maybe a 32 page followup adventure after the end of the AP.
I hope Paizo doesn't bother doing this. RotRL is done and available if people want it. 3.5 and PFRPG are thisclose on rules. I hope Paizo does not waste resources on this and keeps focusing on new things.
Keep in mind that the investment in time and money to update/collect an old out of print AP and the investment to produce new material are a fair bit apart.
Also consider that the wealth of PF material written since RotRL allows for a bigger variety of opponents, magic items, etc. There's one point in an AP that I'm running now where a cleric NPC has some levels of fighter that don't have a great synergy in terms of making him a strong or interesting opponent, but there were a glut of clerics of the same god in that section of the AP and they wanted to find something different. With PF rules in play that same guy could have interesting subdomains, or he could be rebuilt as a battle oracle or inquisitor, or he could have some interesting new feats, etc.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I'm not saying we are doing this, but if we DID do it, we would absolutely update it to the new version of the rules for all of the reasons people have posted above. It's sort of like when we did Pathfinder in the first place. If we're going to the trouble (and expense) of reprinting the core rules of the game, we might as well fix the stuff that bugs us.
In this case, it wouldn't make sense to reprint something without bringing it in line with the current version of the game. It would be easier, sure, but I don't think it would satisfy most folks, and I know it wouldn't satisfy us.
Which is also why you can be assured that if we did a project like this, we wouldn't be reprinting any art that didn't work out the first time, either. Once you get into the patient, you want to fix everything so long as the organs are exposed and you've got your gloves on.
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Honestly, if they were going to update one, I'd prefer it be Curse of the Crimson Throne, myself, but Rise of the Rune Lords was the first AP, and it's still one of the most popular, and it's all out of print, so it would be the most likely suspect.
I'd still prefer a CotCT hardback compilation, though.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Updating any 3.5 AP that isn't mostly sold out in the original edition would be a terrible, terrible mistake, as it would pretty much ensure that we'd be left sitting on any remaining inventory of the 3.5 edition forever.
Three of the six volumes of Rise of the Runelords are sold out, and the remaining three will probably sell out in the next year. (#6 will probably be the next to go, in maybe 3 months or so.)
A couple of the early Crimson Throne volumes *might* sell out in 2011, but all of the other 3.5 APs should be available well into 2012.
For that reason (and many others), *if* we were to update an AP anytime soon, Rise of the Runelords would be the only real choice for us.
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For that reason (and many others), *if* we were to update an AP anytime soon, Rise of the Runelords would be the only real choice for us.FWIW, as I said above, please don't update any of the 3.5 APs at all. Stay focused on making the great new stuff you guys keep pumping out. A sequel to an AP, a boxed set mega-adventure, an AP that has some novel innovation (like making it Golarian moon based). These are things I would much rather see.
You did RotRL, you knocked it out of the park, let it stand as a testament forever in the rule set that made Paizo possible. Don't go all George Lucas on us and start "enhancing" your originals. ;)
To be fair the paizo staff is exceptional writers. :)
A couple of the early Crimson Throne volumes *might* sell out in 2011,
Your Black Friday sale suckered me into buying a complete set of it. Now get on writing me a Pathfinder version before I need to run it. :P
You've got some time, it's hard to get adults with wildly different schedules and days off together to game and we're not plowing through Legacy of Fire very fast.
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To be fair the paizo staff is exceptional writers. :)
For that reason (and many others), *if* we were to update an AP anytime soon, Rise of the Runelords would be the only real choice for us.FWIW, as I said above, please don't update any of the 3.5 APs at all. Stay focused on making the great new stuff you guys keep pumping out. A sequel to an AP, a boxed set mega-adventure, an AP that has some novel innovation (like making it Golarian moon based). These are things I would much rather see.
You did RotRL, you knocked it out of the park, let it stand as a testament forever in the rule set that made Paizo possible. Don't go all George Lucas on us and start "enhancing" your originals. ;)
Exactly. Compare Shackled City as it was released, vs. what we got in the hardback compilation. Upgrades and improvements, not Lucasian digital "upgrades".
I have full confidence in the Paizo crew to actually upgrade RotRL if/when the hardback compilation is released... I'd just rather see CotCT released first.
Updating any 3.5 AP that isn't mostly sold out in the original edition would be a terrible, terrible mistake, as it would pretty much ensure that we'd be left sitting on any remaining inventory of the 3.5 edition forever.
Three of the six volumes of Rise of the Runelords are sold out, and the remaining three will probably sell out in the next year. (#6 will probably be the next to go, in maybe 3 months or so.)
A couple of the early Crimson Throne volumes *might* sell out in 2011, but all of the other 3.5 APs should be available well into 2012.
For that reason (and many others), *if* we were to update an AP anytime soon, Rise of the Runelords would be the only real choice for us.
So, to speculate some more on this topic, if RotRL does sell out in 2011, a compilation would see light of the day earliest in 2012, perhaps fitting for the holiday season. Updating, re-editing and perhaps expanding the adventures would take its time, as would layout, preprint etc. So, the holiday season 2012 would probably be the earliest possible release date.
The same could be projected on CotCT, perhaps selling out in 2012, and being released as a compilation in 2013 or so. If this might develop into a pattern (I´m doubting it - the "old" APs are getting less attractive as more new material is released IMO, and SD probably does not sell out for long time, given its less-than-stellar reception), it would take until 2015 at least to update the 3.5 APs - and by that date, a new rules edition is probably in the works, so updating the old stuff to "PF1" is not the best idea then.
In the end, I would see two old APs updated to the current rules at most, and would not hold my breath for SD to be one of them.
For the record, for guys like me who are subscribers from day 1, these compilations would be interesting only if they contain something new - just a (updated) reprint would be less interesting. I guess it would be difficult to turn this into a successful product.
Speculation is fun on topics like this :-)
Stefan
Allow me to add my voice to those wishing for an update of the old APs. For various reasons I never got onboard the Pathfinder train until after Kingmaker came out. I am now buying the Kingmaker AP, though I wish I could have subscribed so I could be both PDF and print. I am introducing my kids to Pathfinder with Kingmaker over this holiday break and I will be subscribing for future APs in January starting with Carrion Crown. I also plan on buying all of Serpent's Skull once I think I can afford it and the foretold Tian Xia AP coming after Carrion Crown is a must have for an Asian-o-phile like me.
As it stands right now, I will never get any of the other earlier released APs because they are not set up for the current rules set and many are too hard to find now. I don't want to have to concern myself with updating them when I run them because I don't have the time - which is the primary reason I might buy a published adventure to begin with as I prefer making my own. HOWEVER, if they were to get an update and be re-released for the current rules set I would happily buy the complete series of Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and/or Legacy of Fire. Council of Thieves is a maybe if it were to be updated. I have heard too much negative talk about Second Darkness to consider it even though I love to use dark elves as villains.
I think if Paizo were to release one updated AP per year, beginning with Rise of the Runelords and followed by their other sold out APs in the order they sold out each year, it would be a viable product for the market and wouldn't be as much of a drain on their resources and time as some non-Paizo folks seem to think. After all, most of the work is already done.
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Allow me to add my voice to those wishing for an update of the old APs. For various reasons I never got onboard the Pathfinder train until after Kingmaker came out. I am now buying the Kingmaker AP, though I wish I could have subscribed so I could be both PDF and print. I am introducing my kids to Pathfinder with Kingmaker over this holiday break and I will be subscribing for future APs in January starting with Carrion Crown. I also plan on buying all of Serpent's Skull once I think I can afford it and the foretold Tian Xia AP coming after Carrion Crown is a must have for an Asian-o-phile like me.
As it stands right now, I will never get any of the other earlier released APs because they are not set up for the current rules set and many are too hard to find now. I don't want to have to concern myself with updating them when I run them because I don't have the time - which is the primary reason I might buy a published adventure to begin with as I prefer making my own. HOWEVER, if they were to get an update and be re-released for the current rules set I would happily buy the complete series of Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and/or Legacy of Fire. Council of Thieves is a maybe if it were to be updated. I have heard too much negative talk about Second Darkness to consider it even though I love to use dark elves as villains.
I think if Paizo were to release one updated AP per year, beginning with Rise of the Runelords and followed by their other sold out APs in the order they sold out each year, it would be a viable product for the market and wouldn't be as much of a drain on their resources and time as some non-Paizo folks seem to think. After all, most of the work is already done.
Ironicly by you not buying the old ones, you are lowering the chances of them doing it. :)
The more the sell out and see a demand for the older ones the more likely I imagine they would be do to this.
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Define "wildly expensive," please.
:)
I would base that on what all you included in the hardcover. Obviously youd want to include all 6 parts of the adventure, but you wouldnt need to include the bestiary part (and it might be in your best interest to leave it out: 1) fewer pages, 2) a new buyer would need to buy the bestiary 1/2 in order to play the game), nor would you really NEED to include the Pathfinder journal entries.
Youd need to leave the parts describing the towns such as Sandpoint and Magnimar.
Assuming you added in either the players guide, the mapfolio, or both, Id be willing to drop $100ish on it, though my wife my not be too happy with it, lol.
As far as doing hardbacks for the other APs: Your only even mildly considering the idea for RotR cause most parts are mostly sold out. So, if you wanted to do the other APs the same way, and assuming RotR hardcover sold well, then Id say doing it any differently (not waiting til your sold out of at least half the issues for an individual AP) would be a bad move.
Also, by wildly overpriced, I was actually meaning like $200ish.
I would love to see RotRL republished, even if it was just a single hardcover reprint. Having anything extra added is even more bonus, as is re-editing. I try to limit my purchases each month, because I'm a chronic collector and all of Paizo's stuff looks so good together, but I'd make a $100-$130 (depending on extra content) pre-purchase of RotRL the minute it became available. I have all the PDFs, but am now in a position to collect hard copies...and they're mostly used for RotRL. :P
I am aware of the irony Dark Mistress, but I don't want to spend the money on it if it isn't written with the new rules set in mind. I don't have enough money to buy the things I want as it is without spending it on something I have to put extra conversion work into just to use. I am better off just buying the new APs as they come out like Carrion Crawl and Jade Regent.
... Council of Thieves is a maybe if it were to be updated.What update? Council of Thieves was already the first Pathfinder RPG rules AP.
It was? I was not aware of that. Perhaps I will have a closer look at it then; however, it will have a lower priority for me than the new stuff coming out since I can get a PDF and print for basically the same cost of an old Council of Thieves AP print book.
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I am aware of the irony Dark Mistress, but I don't want to spend the money on it if it isn't written with the new rules set in mind. I don't have enough money to buy the things I want as it is without spending it on something I have to put extra conversion work into just to use. I am better off just buying the new APs as they come out like Carrion Crawl and Jade Regent.
It was? I was not aware of that. Perhaps I will have a closer look at it then; however, it will have a lower priority for me than the new stuff coming out since I can get a PDF and print for basically the same cost of an old Council of Thieves AP print book.... Council of Thieves is a maybe if it were to be updated.What update? Council of Thieves was already the first Pathfinder RPG rules AP.
It's also a lower level range than most of the APs. Its last book starts at 13th level and caps out around 14th or 15th level, IIRC.
2012 would put us five years from the original publishing of RotRL...just sayin...
I am already pre-pre-ordering for the "5 Year Anniversary Super Goblin Assault Edition - Now with more Rise!" Of course it will also be featuring Mr. Jacobs and the fancy pants Paizo crew putting their vocal stylings to the goblin songs in Part 1 backed by the London Symphony available on iTunes for pre-oder subscribers....
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I would be interested in seeing a PF version of the RotRL published in a single hard back with updated content, and being marketed as a limited edition. I would like to see more than just an update, I would like to see additional content which focuses in on actual game experience with numerous side bars on advice, possible alternate encounters, what worked, what didn't - basically material that provides insight into the overall campaign. I would also like to comments by the authors of the modules on their prespectives. I realize that this would be a significant undertaking, but I think it could be really a great product.
I am less interested in seeing the other 3.5 AP's be updated, as I think there is value in updating the first AP as it was the first one after all.
To Eric's question, I would guess that such a work would run about $120, and I would be comfortable paying that. For me, once the price goes north of $175, the probability of buying it goes down. I like the idea of making it a limited edition print run, and I would pay more for that.
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i am Charter Subscriber and I would love to see all the 3.5 adventure paths eventually in print. I understand that the 3.5 versions would have to be sold out first but I am not in a rush.
I ran Runelords, I just finished Crimson Throne, we struggled for a bit with Second Darkness and I am playing in a LOF game right now. We have got the early APs covered and I would still buy all of them as they were released as a special hardcover version updated for Pathfinder.
I would also love as a subscriber that I could get the PDF of it too (I know that is asking alot but I love my PDFs).
Thanks for all the great work you do and I am anxiously awaiting the updates.
Add me to the list of people who would pay $100-125 for an updated RotRL, CotCT, SD, and LoF hardcover.
One of the reasons I gave up trying to run these was the work converting them. I would love to pick up and run RotRL or LoF, and Id buy them all to be fully PFRPG'ized.
Late Edit**** The completionist/collector in me says you MUST do this. I have spoken so the word has become law. ;)
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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There are a lot of people who do very good work converting the old APs, already. Much of it is compiled here: Handy-dandy list of AP books that need/have conversions for bad guys.
Paizo has said many many times that they are unlikely to do conversions and reprints. They are barely able to keep up with their current production schedule (and often don't - notice how publication dates keep getting pushed back?). Reprints also kill sales on current products, costing money in multiple areas.
Make use of the above linked d20PFSRD resource if you want to run older stuff. A lot of it is very good.
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I have Rise of the Runelords, Pathfinder #1-#6 already. I have much of them converted already to PFRPG.
Nevertheless, would I still buy a new reprint Hardcover edition of RotRL, converted to Pathfinder RPG, and otherwise updated perhaps with some edited material reflecting changes to Golarion/PFRPG over the past four years?
Damn right I would buy it.
For a single book, devoted principally to the adventure content and which did not include the large majority of the additional "fluff" that accompanies the original AP volumes, I would expect to pay about $60-$80 for a 380-400 page book.
To be clear, the book ought to contain the adventures, the essential setting material and all required new monsters which have not since appeared in Bestiary 1, 2 (or 3). I would not expect the Pathfinder Journal entries and other non-essential "fluff" from the original RotRL to not be included in such a compilation. Where the setting material has been eclipsed and surpassed by Golarion Campaign setting material, it ought to be left out of the RotRL hardcover. If not; then not.
400ish pages for $80? I'm there at Gencon on a Thursday morning with my dollars in hand.
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I, on the other hand, being a charter subscriber and owner of all issues of the APs would love to see a pathfinderized 'special edition' of RotRL and I'd drop it in my cart and buy it the minute I saw it up for pre-order.
Just sayin.
Absolutely! I didn't subscribe until Legacy of Fire, but I went back and bought all the paper copies of other APs - barely started before Rise of the Runelords' first book sold out. Whew! And I would buy it pretty much instantly as well.
I"ll mention again how cool it is that Paizo staff explains why certain things are possible and others are not. I know it takes time out of your day, but being a better informed consumer means I understand your industry better, can appreciate your decisions even if that means I don't get exactly what I want as a customer, and I think it nips a lot of possible conspiracy theories in the bud. :)
I find it strange looking through this thread and thinking, its not a matter of 'if', but a matter of 'when'.
Allow me to summarize my argument in three words: "Artwork is EXPENSIVE."
Which is also why you can be assured that if we did a project like this, we wouldn't be reprinting any art that didn't work out the first time, either.
All ready in PRPG products I've seen two pieces of art that to my eye come straight from Burnt Offerings.
1: The cover of the Inner Sea Primer clearly shows to my eye an updated view of the Thistletop art from BO, complete with head-like island, wooden stockade, and, of course, goblins.
2: Is more debatable: In the Book of the Damned Vol. 2, Lords of Chaos, the chapter three title picture shows what I think to be an updated Nualia on a throne, complete with demon-like arm and goblins in the foreground.
One picture I might see as one of the editors going for a favorite scene and paying to re-imagine it. Two, tells me that there's something in the works, however far out that might be.
That's my reasoning. If you have cause to disagree, please tell me your thoughts.