RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
aka Eyebite
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Imp's Wishbone
Aura moderate necromancy and transmutation; CL 7th
Slot -; Price 10,000 gp; Weight -
Description
Looking like little more than a desiccated wishbone when found, a quick glance reveals only the remnants of charred gristle along the small frame, coupled with the faint stink of sulfur. Closer inspection reveals notched runes on the three points of the wishbone, apparently gnawed into the bone by tiny teeth. An imp’s wishbone is an insidious fetish that allows its possessor to steal a single spell of 3rd level or lower from another spellcaster. If the possessor either dupes the target into breaking the wishbone, or succeeds on a touch attack against the target and breaks the wishbone, the wishbone is triggered. The target must succeed on a DC 17 Will save or else they completely forget how to cast one spell of 3rd level or lower. If the possessor imagines a specific spell when breaking the wishbone, the target forgets that spell. Otherwise, the last spell the target cast is forgotten. This memory loss cannot be dispelled, but it can be restored with a break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell.
Upon forgetting the spell, the spell is stolen and stored in the wishbone. If the possessor is a spellcaster of the same type as the target (i.e. arcane or divine), the possessor can prepare the stolen spell as if they had the Spell Mastery feat, add that spell to their spells known list, or spontaneously cast that spell, as appropriate, as long as the wishbone fragment is held. An imp’s wishbone may only store one spell, and it can never be changed.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, bestow curse, mnemonic enhancer; Cost 5,000 gp
I...like this one. A lot, actually. It's a very witchy item, though I could see it used by any curse-oriented spellcaster. I started out worried I wouldn't like the spell-stealing element. But, the limitation to 3rd level or less helps tamp down any game-breaking aspects of it. You've also got to trick someone into willingly breaking the wishbone...or touch them with it in combat to trigger it. It also comes with a Will save (rather than the automatic successes we've seen on some other items). The one element that still gives me pause is the statement that they "completely forget how to cast...[the]...spell." I take that to mean the victim no longer has that spell on their class spell list or list of known spells...at all...which could be brutal, depending on the spell.
So it's not just stolen from their prepared spells. It's a spell that no longer becomes accessible to them. And that could be a bit harsh. But the bestow curse element kind of reinforces the effect. Also, since break enchantment and the various wish spells can recover the memory loss, I think I'm okay with that. I am left wondering, though, if a victim of this effect manages to go up another level whereby they gain another spell slot of the same level, can they re-learn the spell? Or does the curse forever deny them access to it...like a mental block? Also, you lose access to that particular spell, but can you learn a different spell to occupy that slot if you're a sorcerer or a bard or an oracle?
Meanwhile, the added benefit here is that one who retains the wishbone gets to add that spell to their own repertoire. While cool on the surface, I started wondering about borrowing spells from class lists that wouldn't normally appear on the class list of the owner. It's a very smart move to say that you have to match up as a divine caster or arcane caster in order to steal the spell. Even so, are there any game-breaking situations where an inquisitor, ranger, paladin, etc. would gain access to divine cleric spells that they probably shouldn't...and the same goes for sorcerers and wizards getting access to witch or bard spells that they wouldn't otherwise, and vice versa. I don't know. Nothing's springing to mind at the moment. This item may very well be innovative.
In the meantime, I'm further heartened by the fact that a wishbone can only ever hold one spell...and it can't be changed. So, you're unlikely to see anyone buying up tons of these things at 10,000 gp a pop. And, I like the added game element of robbing an opposing spellcaster (whether by guile or in combat) of some specific spell you fear (or know) they can cast. I can envision several situations where this thing could get used.
Lastly, this item design got everything right in using the provided template. To me, that speaks of someone who's got the right amount of attention to detail that they could very well be the next RPG Superstar. I say we Keep this one around. And I think it may be destined for Top 32.
Vote to Keep.
Keep
Director of Brand Strategy
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I can't tell how this interacts with perpared/spontaneous spellcasters, or multiclass casters who cast both divine and arcane magic. A wizard, for example, doesn't remember how to cast a spell, it's just in her spellbook. So does this remove the spell from the book? I get how this would affect a sorcerer or bard, as they only know a certain number of spells to begin with, which makes it ultra powerful against them. And for classes that pray for spells, does their deity suddenly forget how to grant them the spell stolen?
Overall, I think this is a neat idea, but it's trying to do something really complicated with a lot of fringe situations that I don't think it covers effectively in the rules.
But it's kept, so let's see what Sean says.
Yep, it's unclear what it means by "you forget the spell." Lost that prepped copy? Lost ALL currently-prepped copies? Lost from spellbook? Lost from spells known? Lost from deity? Weird. And depending on what that means, using spells to recover it (break ench., wish, etc.) may either be not worth it or an absolute requirement.
I don't like the name... assuming that imps do have wishbones, you could confuse the mundane imp wishbone with this item.
I do like how it lets you cast the stolen spell, though.
Has some tech problems but can easily be fixed.
Keep.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Given, as Sean says, that the technical problems with this would be an easy fix in a development pass, I'm fine with overlooking those to keep it in the top 32. There aren't many items that compete with this one flavor-wise this year, and I think that should be rewarded.
Keep.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16, 2010 Top 4
aka Alexander MacLeod
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here aren't many items that compete with this one flavor-wise this year, and I think that should be rewarded.
I very much agree.
Alos, I might change the touch attack to a sunder since you're trying to break teh wishbone, but then again, maybe not.
While you have used over 50 words on description, I don’t feel they are wasted, they clearly convey that this is an imp’s wishbone. I’d like to see the runes being curses in Infernal though. As the other judges have noted, you really have to explain exactly what ‘completely forgets’ means in game terms for each kind of caster. You only had 15 words left so I can see why you didn’t. It might be better to make the stolen spell random, rather than the last one cast. This just leads to more bookkeeping, both for players and for the GM as they have to track the last spell they cast. I do like that you can choose to steal a specific spell. Small nitpick, it should be melee touch attack. That you list out what spells can remove the curse is nicely done.
Then the possessor gets to use the spell. Mentioning Spell Mastery saves you words but again you have to use words talking about spontaneous vs. prepared casters here again. Lastly what about spells that have different levels for different casters? A bard has hideous laughter as a 1st level spell, if a wizard (who has hideous laughter as a 2nd level spell on her spell list) steals it, does she get it at 1st level or 2nd?
Welcome to the ranks of RPG Superstar! You certainly pushed the degree of difficulty as well as hitting the flavor solidly. Your experience with the formatting and game mechanics is obvious. Just remember, in Round two leaving a mechanic half described will really hurt you. Best of luck!
Very flavorful and clever, despite some mechanical issues. I like the description, but when you’re running out of words and have a few concepts unexplained you need to decide just how important it is. Then again, the description is the very flavor I’m praising.. Hmmm. It’s a tough call.
I don’t have many issues with the mechanics other than the big question of what is exactly meant by forgotten.
In a weird way, this is like a one use item that is not a one use item. Rather it comes in an unfixed state, and the owner gets to permanently ‘set’ it, but then continue to draw benefit from it. That’s cool and original. I can see a player enjoying setting up a strategy to get a spell they’d like.
Good job! This is clearly Top 32 material and I wish you every bit of good luck in the rounds to come!
Congratulations!
It feels so weird to comment on something anonymously and find out that I'm acquainted with the lucky contender!
Keep it up!
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Star Voter Season 6
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Wait a sec… “completely forget how to cast one spell of 3rd level or lower” You can wipe out a sorcerer’s spell known this way? And get a spell not on your spell list? For the low low price of 10K GP? I mean grabbing a lower level version of a bard spell for a wizard is feat worthy (see psionics) but I could grab a pox pustules from the witch, for my magus?
Nice one... I had similar questions about spontaneous/prepared casters and related issues, but as said, it would be relatively simple fix.
Apparently, if the target ends up in possession of the `broken` (spell-loaded) bone, they are able to cast the `stolen` spell once again? I might like more details about that.... I also wonder about using a Familiar to wield this item when making the Touch Attack, though since your Familiar in^t a spell caster themselves maybe that wouldn`t work...?
Good job though!
I like it but what happens if they make their save? is the imp bone wasted? That's the one part that keeps me worried about this -- otherwise I would use it as a PC, which is one of my major concerns when it comes to magic items!
I love the physical description of this item.
It seems way too powerful to me for its price though. Causing a spell caster to permanently forget a spell feels powerful.
I would like the item to not be based on a successful touch attack, but instead target a spell caster within a specified radius when broken.
This is a REALLY cool item. Love it.
Makes me totally regret throwing my last imp in the dumpster.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
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I like this item. You always see drawings of characters with tiny bones tied to their belts and necklace; I'm glad someone finally made one really magical.
I'm taking it that if the target passes it's save, nothing happens, which makes me feel better about the item. Did you playtest this? I don't really see a problem with the pricing. In a way, it's just a 3rd level (or lower) scroll you can recharge. If after playtesting the price does seem a little high, I would just raise the DC for the Will save.
You had me at imp...
I adore the flavor on this one. Probably my favorite flavor text of the top 32. Nicely balanced; exceedingly useful but nothing gamebreaking about it. *one fiendish thumbs up*
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
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Borrowing spells, especially permanently, sets off all kinds of game balance alarms in me. For example, I use this on a low-level minion while he's sleeping, and acquire my very own shield or divine favor. Forever. At least you do need to cast the same sort of spell. But this bypasses a lot of problems inherent in the ring of spell storing, and lets you cast it at your own caster level to boot, which worries me.
I'd have to go with making this a one-shot item, and when I start trying to price that, I see another issue. Normally a one-shot's quite a bit less than a "forever" toy, but I'd be pricing a one-shot spell stealer around 4,000 gp myself, a big chunk of this item's price without any usage limits on the stolen spell. And that's without denying the spell to the target forever, though with my take on it I might well deny the save (or not expend the wishbone on the save). Speaking as a PC, I want ripping off my magic - forever - to cost my opponent more in the way of resources.
That save brings up another issue - for 10,000 gp, ouch, I say ouch, if your target makes that Will save. Lots of coin gone for nothin'. That leaves me thinking the item's main niche for PCs is going to be foes you've dominated or otherwise hosed into not getting a proper save.
I can see why this item made it, but if it appeared in a sourcebook, I'd probably drop it right into my "banned" list out of concern for corner-case abuse.
But then I am the grumpy mechanics guy :)
Makes my top five but this is really abusable by PCs IMO, particularly sorcerers in high level play that use party crafting. Basically a sorcerer could charm an NPC to break the wishbone and have them choose to forego their save so DC17 moot. Is it worth 5,000 or 10,000 GP to most sorcerers to have an extra high level spell or two? Breaking the curse doesn't appear to destroy the wishbone so that is another way around the spell limitation of the sorcerer class since it doesn't appear to have a wishbone limitation:
This memory loss cannot be dispelled, but it can be restored with a break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
aka Eyebite
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This comes across as a vicious sort of "Scroll" device. Nicely done, but just a scroll with a twisted way of being crafted.
A nice item that just doesn't have wow factor.
Ah, sorry my item doesn't have that "wow" factor for you Daniel. But, hopefully my archetype will win you over.
Great comments everyone, and they are very much appreciated. Obviously, the wording could have been a little clearer. Definitely a point to consider heading into Round 2.
Is it worth 5,000 or 10,000 GP to most sorcerers to have an extra high level spell or two?
3rd Level Spells are High Level Spells?
I mean, OK, this definitely is useful, but I don´t know if it´s overpowering.You can already get new Spells known via Feat, without the 3rd level limitation.
Maybe this item is better than blowing a Feat on 3rd level or lower spells, but I would think at ´high levels´, this isn´t that much of a problem at all. And at low levels, blowing that much gold is putting a crimp on other things, so basically I just don´t see a huge problem there.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
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Star Voter Season 6
aka raidou
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Joshua, congratulations on making it into the competition! I think this item's name is my favorite out of all the entries. It's a great, evocative concept and I really enjoy the visual of the thing.
Mechanic-wise, I'm a little torn. The description is really obvious about what happens to a spontaneous caster - they lose the memory of that spell and can no longer cast it. The item is far less clear about a prepared caster. What does "forgetting a spell" mean if you have that spell written down, or can pray for it again the next day. What does "last spell the target cast is forgotten" mean in terms of prepared casters, where the last spell they cast is already wiped from memory?
Lastly, although it's an evocative image, is wishbone-breaking something that's done between rivals or opponents? I broke wishbones after eating turkey dinners as a kid, so that tradition seems ingrained as something that's done between family members or friends. I have a harder time with the idea of duping an enemy or rival into breaking the thing. In a world where every other drawer, box, and coffin will kill you if you open it incorrectly, I'm not sure people are going to be OK with devil wishbone-breaking as a custom.
Or maybe they do it all the time in Cheliax. Those people are strange. Anyway, welcome aboard and good luck in the rounds ahead.
Imp's Wishbone
Great item! Useful but not game-breaking, and appeals to both players and GMs. This is true Superstar quality. Thanks, Joshua!
I've seen spell stealing before, but not with this kind of teeth (can't cast that spell again short of break enchantment? Yipes! What if you're the party's only full caster, and the spell stolen was break enchantment??). I agree that the "forget" wording was far too ambiguous; I assume that what happens here is a curse effect preventing the spell from being prepared or cast, but I gather that more from context than from what you first describe. Words like "forgot" and "memorize" haven't had rules meaning in quite some time. On the other end of the spectrum, a free spell known for a spontaneous caster (especially one not necessarily on their spell list) can be really useful. As a sorcerer I'd definitely be hunting down bards with glibness. The "3rd level or lower" requirement was a good move.
It would be nice if this mentioned what happens if the victim breaks the enchantment (I assume that your end of the wishbone still contains the spell, but many GMs would intuitively say otherwise).
I like that both uses of this (depriving foes of a spell and gaining a spell yourself) are quite viable, and that a character might want it primarily for the first effect or primarily for the second, depending on the situation.
Congratulations on making the Top 32!
First off, kudos to you for tackling such a big concept as spell-theft for your item, that is pretty brave.
You did a good job too from what I can see. The item is full of flavour and inspiration and I can tell you know exactly what you mean in terms of what it can do and how it can act which is good.
The problem is of course that some of that didn't translate. We need some clarification on just how badly the victim is off in terms of spell loss - is it forgotten totally or just sealed away? I assume you meant the spell is sealed since totally forgotten has too many problems to address (as others have mentioned).
While I like the flavour text and description, I have to admit I don't see where the imp comes in - other than it is made from an imp's wishbone?
Still like it though,
Great Item!
This is awesome! I won't say this is one of my favorite items until I see a rules clarification but I really like that you can trick someone into breaking it. If you manage that there should be no save (every one should know better than to pick up a duck in a dungeon, if you know what I mean).
It seems like there should be a duration as well, maybe a week. I'd be really ticked off if I was sorcerer hit with one of these. This is to casters what the rust monster is to fighters.
Well done though! I'll be interested to see what you bring to round two.
I really, really like the theme, imagery and flair of this item.
I concur that it is somewhat wonky on what exactly means "forgetting" a spell for the different kinds of caster. And what is if the last spell the target cast was not of 3rd level or lower? is the next to last spell lost? and then? next to next to last? This could mean some serious extra bookkeeping.
that said I have to restate that I really love the wishbone and don't care too much about these issues. If it was printed in a Book of magic items maybe, but this isn't this is Rpg-Superstar and more about big ideas (which you bring to the table) than mechanical perfectness ( which you are very good at too)
I really look forward to seeing your Archetype.
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I agree completely, word for word, with what Russ said above, so please take this as a +1 to his comments.
...and I'm now, I guess, the grumpy mechanics guy's minion.
But, I'll take that.
It's weird, I'm finding that the items that the judges LOVED (particularly Neil), I personally don't always...get. I think that bodes poorly for me in future competitions, but I'll just take it as something that I can hopefully overcome. Enough about me, though, it's about you.
One of my pet peeves (and it's just that, and not meant to indicate anything more) is when an item's description is overly specific to the point of sounding more like an artifact than a wondrous item. For instance, in this case, "Looking like little more than a desiccated wishbone when found, a quick glance reveals only the remnants of charred gristle along the small frame[...]". So, every last one of these in existence has a bit of gristle attached? There's not one out there that's had it's gristle scraped away over time, or by being handled roughly, or heck, chewed off by some hyperactive goblin? Just a pet peeve, though, and my opinion on this round is pretty much meaningless (despite that, I'm giving it anyway XD), so, take it for what it's worth. It obviously doesn't bother the judges, and that's what counts for this round.
So, congrats on making the Top 32! I have a feeling that your archetype is going to be really good...just a feeling I have.
Congratulations Josh!
Strength (Overall): 14
Dexterity (see time in my campaign): 10
Constitution (long-time keeper): 12
Intelligence (mechanics): 12
Wisdom (writing craft): 12
Charisma (flavor/visuals): 14
I like the spell-stealing aspect. I think the mechanics are difficult to see. Much has been said on forget, and my first thought was 'a wizard forgets the spell as soon as he casts it... so what?!?" Read: until tomorrow I do not have X spell. Everyone's else questions kind of cleared that up from me but it is still out there. Also stealing spells from the cleric in the local chapel or the scribe at the library. Just a touch attack? ouch (for the NPC). The visuals are long, but the gnawing by little teeth is a concrete image that will stay with me. Nice job. :)
Again, congratulations! :)
Congrats Josh! It was very cool to see your name and Patrick's in the list.
I like it, it's got a very evil vibe to it, but that's intentional, I'd presume.
As far as this goes:
For example, I use this on a low-level minion while he's sleeping, and acquire my very own shield or divine favor. Forever.
As a GM, please, please, please do something like that. That's all I need to craft a nice long rival arc as the begrudged minion disappears and dedicates his life to making you miserable. *wrings hands in glee*
Yes. And with that comment, Josh's item delightfully drops into the collective sack of loot for the next game.
-Ben.
I read the description, and my initial thought was "Ew, yuck!" Then I read what the item can do...Cool!
I can see this item being used for much more than a PC spell-grab. It can start feuds between rival magical schools, set a conspiracy in motion, be used as justification for making spell casters second-class citizens or elite citizens... The possibilities are endless.
Very nice, and I look forward to seeing your archetype.
Imp's Wishbone
Aura moderate necromancy and transmutation; CL 7th
Slot -; Price 10,000 gp; Weight -
Description
Looking like little more than a desiccated wishbone when found, a quick glance reveals only the remnants of charred gristle along the small frame, coupled with the faint stink of sulfur. Closer inspection reveals notched runes on the three points of the wishbone, apparently gnawed into the bone by tiny teeth. An imp’s wishbone is an insidious fetish that allows its possessor to steal a single spell of 3rd level or lower from another spellcaster. If the possessor either dupes the target into breaking the wishbone, or succeeds on a touch attack against the target and breaks the wishbone, the wishbone is triggered. The target must succeed on a DC 17 Will save or else they completely forget how to cast one spell of 3rd level or lower. If the possessor imagines a specific spell when breaking the wishbone, the target forgets that spell. Otherwise, the last spell the target cast is forgotten. This memory loss cannot be dispelled, but it can be restored with a break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell.Upon forgetting the spell, the spell is stolen and stored in the wishbone. If the possessor is a spellcaster of the same type as the target (i.e. arcane or divine), the possessor can prepare the stolen spell as if they had the Spell Mastery feat, add that spell to their spells known list, or spontaneously cast that spell, as appropriate, as long as the wishbone fragment is held. An imp’s wishbone may only store one spell, and it can never be changed.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, bestow curse, mnemonic enhancer; Cost 5,000 gp
Ask A RPGSuperstar Succubus is posting from the point of view of a CE aligned succubus – fairness is an adjective applicable to hair coloration, balance is what a couple of mortals on opposite ends of a plank pivoted on a rocky spire above a drop of several hundred feet into a pool of molten basalt frantically try to do, and logic is something which proves anything a demon of adequate status and charm requires it to demonstrate.
Is the item Pretty?
Not conventionally, no. But being made from a piece of an imp helps it a lot.
Does the item help a demonic seductress to keep a paladin house pet?
Probably not, unless a wishbone has a handy spell for a spellcasting succubus.
Is the item otherwise useful?
Definitely.
Other Comments? (including World Domination potential on the evil laughter scale, where appropriate)
I'll go straight to what I feel to be the crux of the matter:
World Domination Potential:
Mwuahahahaha! (Ahem.)
Yes, I perceive the item to be that insanely powerful both in its own use and in the potential implications of what the principles involved do once extrapolated to a higher level and to more powerful items. And as it currently stands, it's only 10,000 gold pieces.
I wouldn't even have to go around 'stealing' spells off unwilling (and unwitting) victims to use this item. I could pay a volunteer journeyman wizard to learn a spell (and give him some extra cash for his trouble) then invite him to willingly 'surrender' the spell of interest into a wishbone.
I'm not quite sure that the item works the way you think it does with regard to divine magic, though, and would invite you to check your research and reports again with regard to that.
But anyway, increased flexibility (especially for bards, oracles, and sorcerers) is always a Good Thing, and even more flexibility (with even more of these items) is even more more of a Good Thing. I have a number of colleagues queuing up for these items already, and I'm thinking of acquiring several for some of my own allies and servants. And just you wait until someone researches more powerful versions of these...
Gollum Rating:
(On behalf of spontaneous casters everywhere) My Prrreciousss!!!
This is very cool, and another one of my favorites this year. Your description is perfectly creepy, and your mechanics are sound. Thematically, I can see a sorcerer or witch using this item.
Not sure if anyone's said this yet, but I think it would be cool to give a -4 penalty to the save DC if the owner of the wishbone successfully tricks someone into breaking it.
Kudos on a great item! Best of luck going forward.
This is really cool. Great imagery and flavour! A re-wording here might help clear up how a wizard forgets a spell that he has written down somewhere, or how a cleric forgets how to pray for one. If the target treats the spell in question as though it were not on their spell list, then they are unable to try and prepare it. It's written form just becomes words in a book, perhaps the wizards even sees the page as blank, or does not see the page at all, and it's prayer become mere words, perhaps unknown to the victim. This could be doubly devious, as it bars their access to spell completion items of the same spell. Maybe they treat the spell as prohibited in this regard. Especially great for sorcerers, it's almost worth getting scrolls or a wand of mnemonic enhancer and risking the UMD to make them.
I would totally use this item. It's especially awesome for NPC's, my players hate it when I take their stuff, imagine how they will feel when I steal their knowledge!