Does mage armor stack with armor?


Rules Questions


For some reason all the games i have played in, mage armor stacked. New DM sez NO! Is this true?


DM is correct. Mage armor provides an armor bonus; so does mundane armor. Two armor bonuses from different sources don't stack.
However, note that mage armor also works against incorporeal touch attacks, so it's not completely useless.

The Exchange

Your new DM is correct. Mage Armor gives an Armor Bonus to AC, same as actual armor. The two won't stack, only the highest would be counted.


Wolfthulhu wrote:
Your new DM is correct. Mage Armor gives an Armor Bonus to AC, same as actual armor. The two won't stack, only the highest would be counted.

So i have been doing it wrong... Sigh. It could be a left over from an older edition or they just ignored the rule. So, any good spells to buff a fighters ac? (Bull strenght does not help, and most fighters are dex crippled for Cats Grace.)

Dark Archive

Waylorn wrote:
Wolfthulhu wrote:
Your new DM is correct. Mage Armor gives an Armor Bonus to AC, same as actual armor. The two won't stack, only the highest would be counted.
So i have been doing it wrong... Sigh. It could be a left over from an older edition or they just ignored the rule. So, any good spells to buff a fighters ac? (Bull strenght does not help, and most fighters are dex crippled for Cats Grace.)

Magic Vestment, Shield of Faith, Barkskin.

Also, fighters shouldn't cripple their dexterity in Pathfinder, with Armor Training, a Mithral Fullplate has a maximum dexterity bonus of +7.


Jadeite wrote:
Waylorn wrote:
Wolfthulhu wrote:
Your new DM is correct. Mage Armor gives an Armor Bonus to AC, same as actual armor. The two won't stack, only the highest would be counted.
So i have been doing it wrong... Sigh. It could be a left over from an older edition or they just ignored the rule. So, any good spells to buff a fighters ac? (Bull strenght does not help, and most fighters are dex crippled for Cats Grace.)

Magic Vestment, Shield of Faith, Barkskin.

Also, fighters shouldn't cripple their dexterity in Pathfinder, with Armor Training, a Mithral Fullplate has a maximum dexterity bonus of +7.

We are lvl 1 at this point. I was looking for a replacement for stacking mage armor at low lvls.

Silver Crusade

Shield of Faith (deflection bonus)

Protection from Evil (deflection)

At a minute duration, spells will get you through most fights.

Mage Armor can also be a good spell to have when facing incorporeal undead since it is a "force" effect and can deflect attacks where normal armors would fail.

Dark Archive

Waylorn wrote:
Jadeite wrote:
Waylorn wrote:
Wolfthulhu wrote:
Your new DM is correct. Mage Armor gives an Armor Bonus to AC, same as actual armor. The two won't stack, only the highest would be counted.
So i have been doing it wrong... Sigh. It could be a left over from an older edition or they just ignored the rule. So, any good spells to buff a fighters ac? (Bull strenght does not help, and most fighters are dex crippled for Cats Grace.)

Magic Vestment, Shield of Faith, Barkskin.

Also, fighters shouldn't cripple their dexterity in Pathfinder, with Armor Training, a Mithral Fullplate has a maximum dexterity bonus of +7.
We are lvl 1 at this point. I was looking for a replacement for stacking mage armor at low lvls.

Shield of Faith is a first level spell. If you are desperate, reduce person might also help. Otherwise, simply use a scale mail and tower shield for AC 19. Or a scale mail plus heavy shield for AC 17 to avoid the penalty on attack rolls.


or just plain shield spell...+2 AC shield bonus, if you dont already use a shield.


Kryzbyn wrote:
or just plain shield spell...+2 AC shield bonus, if you dont already use a shield.

Personal only, isn't it? So not doable for a fighter.


AvalonXQ wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
or just plain shield spell...+2 AC shield bonus, if you dont already use a shield.
Personal only, isn't it? So not doable for a fighter.

Sorry, was assuming via an item or otherwise usable by said fighter.


Kryzbyn wrote:
AvalonXQ wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
or just plain shield spell...+2 AC shield bonus, if you dont already use a shield.
Personal only, isn't it? So not doable for a fighter.
Sorry, was assuming via an item or otherwise usable by said fighter.

We are a caster heavy group, so buffing the fighter (he loves it) has become our main sport.

Any other LVL 1-3 buff spells that i REALLY need to look at that i might have missed?

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Waylorn wrote:
Any other LVL 1-3 buff spells that i REALLY need to look at that i might have missed?

Shield other. Do not underestimate the awesomeness that is shield other. A non-combatant cleric with a reasonable CON can survive easily by taking half the damage of the fighter types AND things like channel energy are twice as effective (if instead of one person taking 8 damage two take 4, the 5 point channel energy will heal 100% of the damage taken).

I've seen a barbarian with shield other do some scary scary things with what amounts to roughly the equivalent to 120 HP by around level 5-6.


Waylorn wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
AvalonXQ wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
or just plain shield spell...+2 AC shield bonus, if you dont already use a shield.
Personal only, isn't it? So not doable for a fighter.
Sorry, was assuming via an item or otherwise usable by said fighter.

We are a caster heavy group, so buffing the fighter (he loves it) has become our main sport.

Any other LVL 1-3 buff spells that i REALLY need to look at that i might have missed?

Enlarge person: Increases damage by a good deal and more importantly gives your meat shield reach. No longer as good for upping your combat maneuver ability but still nice.

Level 2 Bears endurence and Bulls strength (as long as he doesn't have an item of these)

Barkskin (druid)

Level 3: Haste/


Waylorn wrote:
Wolfthulhu wrote:
Your new DM is correct. Mage Armor gives an Armor Bonus to AC, same as actual armor. The two won't stack, only the highest would be counted.
So i have been doing it wrong... Sigh. It could be a left over from an older edition or they just ignored the rule. So, any good spells to buff a fighters ac? (Bull strenght does not help, and most fighters are dex crippled for Cats Grace.)

Alway been that way as far I remember going back to 1st edition AD&D.

In PF, your fighters shouldn't be Dex crippled as it's primary stat for a fighter. Armor Training is almost useless if you have no dex and that's major class feature. Of course if you do have a low dex the fighter archetypes work well.

Grand Lodge

Waylorn wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
AvalonXQ wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
or just plain shield spell...+2 AC shield bonus, if you dont already use a shield.
Personal only, isn't it? So not doable for a fighter.
Sorry, was assuming via an item or otherwise usable by said fighter.

We are a caster heavy group, so buffing the fighter (he loves it) has become our main sport.

Any other LVL 1-3 buff spells that i REALLY need to look at that i might have missed?

Your missing the point...mage armor has always been a personal spell...there is no way for a wizard to cast it on the fighter. A spellsword using the 3.x ruleset could spell channel mage armor and then smack the fighter to give him mage armor...but that isn't something you do till level 12+ anyways. I have a sinking feeling that your use to casters getting played wrong (from a rules perspective) if you don't even know that. I think you need to hit your rulebook more then asking what spells are good.


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Mage Armor is not a personal spell, nor was it in 3.5. That's why it even has a Mass version later on. Correcting people is fine, but don't tell people to hit the rulebook when you have the rules wrong.

Also, Shield spell is +4 Shield bonus, not +2. Shield, however, is personal only.

Protection from Evil is a real good one. Enlarge Person hurts AC, but is awesome.


+1 to Sylvanite... mage armor has a range of touch..

Grand Lodge

Sylvanite wrote:

Mage Armor is not a personal spell, nor was it in 3.5. That's why it even has a Mass version later on. Correcting people is fine, but don't tell people to hit the rulebook when you have the rules wrong.

Also, Shield spell is +4 Shield bonus, not +2. Shield, however, is personal only.

Protection from Evil is a real good one. Enlarge Person hurts AC, but is awesome.

G&# d&&n it, for some reason I mixed up shield and mage armor range...I blame kryzbyn for suggesting shield in the first place...yeah that's it :P .


Cold Napalm wrote:
Sylvanite wrote:

Mage Armor is not a personal spell, nor was it in 3.5. That's why it even has a Mass version later on. Correcting people is fine, but don't tell people to hit the rulebook when you have the rules wrong.

Also, Shield spell is +4 Shield bonus, not +2. Shield, however, is personal only.

Protection from Evil is a real good one. Enlarge Person hurts AC, but is awesome.

g*# d#!n it, for some reason I mixed up shield and mage armor range...I blame kryzbyn for suggesting shield in the first place...yeah that's it :P .

That made me LOL as it looks like your avatar is expressing those exact feelings. Heh.


For what it's worth, Potions of Shield are pretty useful :)

Craft Wondrous to make a persistent Shield should cost about 18,000gold (following Armor Bonus^squared formula and tacking on a bit extra for the immunity to magic missiles, as opposed to the Caster Level x Spell Level x 4 for a Minute Duration becoming persistent (which at 4k gold is *way* too cheap!)) and that is an amazing piece of easy kit for a mid level melee :)

GNOME

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
FireberdGNOME wrote:

For what it's worth, Potions of Shield are pretty useful :)

Craft Wondrous to make a persistent Shield should cost about 18,000gold (following Armor Bonus^squared formula and tacking on a bit extra for the immunity to magic missiles, as opposed to the Caster Level x Spell Level x 4 for a Minute Duration becoming persistent (which at 4k gold is *way* too cheap!)) and that is an amazing piece of easy kit for a mid level melee :)

GNOME

Except that you can't make a potion of shield, as it's a spell with range:personal.


PRD wrote:
You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures

The PRD also states that Shield has a *target* of "You". Am I reading the Feat, Brew Potion incorrectly? Does the affecting spell have to say "...creature..."? Brew Potion only refers to Targets, not Range.

Thank you much :)

GNOME


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
FireberdGNOME wrote:
PRD wrote:
You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures

The PRD also states that Shield has a *target* of "You". Am I reading the Feat, Brew Potion incorrectly? Does the affecting spell have to say "...creature..."? Brew Potion only refers to Targets, not Range.

Thank you much :)

GNOME

PRD: Magic Item Creation says about Creating Potions:

"Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions."

you are welcome ;)


Cold Napalm wrote:
Sylvanite wrote:

Mage Armor is not a personal spell, nor was it in 3.5. That's why it even has a Mass version later on. Correcting people is fine, but don't tell people to hit the rulebook when you have the rules wrong.

Also, Shield spell is +4 Shield bonus, not +2. Shield, however, is personal only.

Protection from Evil is a real good one. Enlarge Person hurts AC, but is awesome.

g*! d&&n it, for some reason I mixed up shield and mage armor range...I blame kryzbyn for suggesting shield in the first place...yeah that's it :P .

DOH!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
FireberdGNOME wrote:
PRD wrote:
You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures

The PRD also states that Shield has a *target* of "You". Am I reading the Feat, Brew Potion incorrectly? Does the affecting spell have to say "...creature..."? Brew Potion only refers to Targets, not Range.

Thank you much :)

GNOME

"The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions."

No thanks necessary, enlightening people who didn't read the rulebook is something I do for free ! :P

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