Proposal to fix target word issues


Round 2: Words of Power Discussion


Proposal - 6 word spells
There are a bunch of deficiencies in the initial version of the system. One that sticks out is the target word system. There are a bunch of things it doesn't handle well for example, walls ), defensive shell spells (eg antilife shell), non-specified area effects (eg Magic Circle Against Evil or Firestorm), or multiple copies of an effect (eg. using summon Monster IV to get 2-5 monsters from the summon monster II table). It also seems oddly cross-connected eg. how do you have a long range single target spell (you can't currently, single target is short range, and you can only use the Distant meta word once...). It has trouble supporting weird effects, for example creating an explosion of fire that leaves behind a fire elemental to attack your foes...
Given all this, I propose expanding a spell definition to 4-6 words. This system follows a pre-determined grammar as follows:
1) Required Word - Range; how far away from the caster the effect can go off.
Words (Cost)
Personal (-2 points) Spells that only target the caster
Touch (-1 points) spells delivered by touch only
Short (0 points) 25+5' per 2 caster levels
Medium (1 point) 100+10' per caster level
Long (2 points) 400+40' per caster level
2) Required Word - Target Count: How many copies of the effect it makes
Words (Cost)
One (0 points) Generate one copy of the effect
Up to Caster Level (1 Point) Generate multiple copies of the effect.
Zone (2 Points) Everything within the targeted zone is effected
Multiple Zones (3 Points) Generates Multiple target zones - everything within each targeted zones is effected. Up to caster level zones can be effected.
3) Required Word - Area: What shape are the effects made in
Words (Cost)
No Area (0 points)
Small Circle (1 points) A copy of the effect impacts (up to a 10' radius) circle
Medium Circle (2 points) A copy of the effect impacts (up to a 20' radius) circle
Large Circle (4 points) A copy of the effect impacts (up to a 40' radius) circle
Small Cone (1 points) A copy of the effect impacts (up to a 10' length) cone
Medium Cone (2 points) A copy of the effect impacts (up to a 20' length) cone
Large Cone (4 points) A copy of the effect impacts (up to a 40' length) cone
Square (0 points) A copy of the effect impacts an 5x5 square
Small Contiguous (2 point) A copy of the effect impacts up to 4 contiguous 5x5 squares

4) Required Word - effect
5) Additional word - effect (a second effect word is not required but can be used, also includes Meta Words)
6) Additional word - effect (a third effect word is not required but can be used, also includes Meta Words).

Note that the choice between burst, emmanation, and spread is the casters, and does not cost points.

Some examples:

An effect like fireball - Long (2), Zone (2) Medium Circle (2) Fire Blast (6), a total of 12 points, high for a 3ed level spell, but less than 4th level. This is a better fit than the current system - Medium Burst (5) Meta Distant(4) Fire Blast (6), a total of 15 points, a high fourth or fifth level spell.

Magic Circle Against Evil - Touch (-1) One (0), Small Circle (1) "Magic Circle" word. Generates a shell that travels with the caster with a radius of 10'

An Effect like wall of fire - Medium (1) Multiple Zones (3) Square (0) Fire Barrier (8), a total of 12 points, a 4th level spell that fills up to caster level 5X5 squares with a "wall of fire" effect. By chosing the squares contiguously, a solid wall can be generated. This is a big improvement over the current "barrier" effect, as you are not locked into starting your wall spells at your fingertips...

An effect like Firestorm - Medium (1) Multiple Zones (3) Small Contiguous (2) Inferno (20), a total of 26 points, a strong 7th level spell (about right) that effects up to caster level sub-areas inside medium range, each of which can be up to 4 contiguous 5x5 squares

An effect like Cone of Cold - Touch (-1) Zone (2) Large Cone (4) Ice Blast (9), a total of 14 points (a strong 4th or underpowered 5th), a 40' cone that starts at the caster, and does level d6 (to a max of 10d6) and possible entangle.

A multi-touch attack spell (a la chill touch) - Touch (-1) Up to Caster Level (1) No Area (0) Attack Effect word (...)

A mass effect spell (eg. Bull's Strength, Mass) - Short (0), up to Caster level (1), Medium Circle (2), Enhance Form - boosted (14), a total of 17 points, a strongish 5th or weak 6th level spell; about right. Boosts up to CL creatures in a 20 ' radius within short range...

Something Weird - Elgin's Doom Pie. Conjures gigantic slices of ultra acidic lingonberry pie all over the battlefield, subjecting foes to horrible acidic burns, and sickening them. Medium (1) Multiple Zones (3) Medium Cone (2) Acid Wave (9), Total cost 15, a strong 4th or 5th level spell. It conjures caster level 20' pie wedges, anywhere within a 100+10' per caster level range. Anyone inside one the area of any of the pie wedges take (caster level)d6 acid damage (to a maximum of 10d6),and must save or be sickened.

PS. Adoption of this scheme would require re-thinking of the restrictions on target words associated with various effects....


I don't think what we need is more words, what we need is less, even if that means we can't copy the old spells excactly.

If we try to make the wordcaster able to copy all old spells, we will utterly fail due to strange effects and too complex a system. Rather, we should probably look at having fewer words. I think range should simply be an effect of level and shape.


I love it!

A few suggestions:


  • Add "Ray" somewhere, probably as a "Range" word.
  • Add "Duration" as an optional word.
  • Increase the cost of 1 target per level. Perhaps you could add a lower number of targets like 1/4 levels for 1 point, 1/2 levels for 2 points, and 1/level for 3 points.


Blueluck wrote:

I love it!

A few suggestions:


  • Add "Ray" somewhere, probably as a "Range" word.
  • Add "Duration" as an optional word.
  • Increase the cost of 1 target per level. Perhaps you could add a lower number of targets like 1/4 levels for 1 point, 1/2 levels for 2 points, and 1/level for 3 points.

I believe "Short" in Range covers Rays.

Duration is something that should be added. Otherwise your summons are gone the second you summon them or your magic circle goes away instantaneously.

The Exchange

Yeah - I was thinking along these lines too.

With just target and effect words the system only seems able to produce at low levels, essentially, spells with variable delivery systems - an acid touch attack or an acid ranged touch attack, for example - because with a one-effect spell the only thing you can alter is the target parameter. You don't start to really get into the more interesting ways to combine effects until you start to hit the meta effects, which are pretty high level.

Many of the other possible combined effects seem to produce rather twisted-logic effects for the sake of mechanical advantage; by which I mean 'fire + lightning + cold' blasts simply to exceed the usual damage caps despite the actual effect, in descriptive terms, being pretty silly. This is probably, to a certain extent, due to the limited selection of effects offered in the playtest, but one of the first things I'd ban is fire + cold combos and other illogical effects. Something like a fire + force effect (a fire blast which also knocks you on your posterior) would be fine - that I can see the sense in - but elemental combos, not so much (at least not in their current form: if you had fire + water making steam or fire + earth making lava, then sure, but it gets a little more complicated).

Another point pad300's suggestions cover is the value of a single 'point'. In the system as presented in the pdf it's common to have points 'wasted' or 'left over' when you cast certain effects, again, especially at low levels. There needs to be a good selection of generically applicable 1pt 'value' effects / words so you don't end up feeling either cheated or stupid for casting 'sub-optimal' spells all the time. You'll note that many example power word spells people come up with rely on 'word burning' - which seems pretty much the only way to make sure you have a chance at getting the 'points value' out of your spell slots... and which is, again, not available at low levels.

Personally, I'd like to see the system (if it's going to relate to the basic spell system at all) simply following the pre-existing, well-known, spell parameters: range, target, duration, effect, area, etc. - with a selection of words for each. For effects, I'd like to see just one 'word' covering a whole effect, otherwise the fluff text is pretty meaningless: if words of power are the keys to 'hacking reality' or what-have-you, then how come knowing the word which embodies the essence of the concept 'flame' (for example) requires different words for little flames and big flames, and doesn't even require the learning of the little flame 'words' before you can comprehend the big flame ones? Surely knowing the primal mystical word for 'flame' should cover all fire effects? Power level would still be limited by the amount of power (i.e. the level of spell slot) you pump in, of course, but you'd only need to learn the one word to cover that sort of effect.

From a fluff point of view, range and area could be covered by the words defining 'space', duration by the words defining 'time', effects by their overarching theme (e.g. 'flame', 'acid', 'emotion' or whatever).

So, you'd have a system where you choose one word for range, one for target / area, one for duration, one for effect. You'd then either 'buy back' some of the cost with components and casting time, or these would start generically bad, with less components and faster casting times costing points (whichever seems easier to the mathphobic). Level limits would only be the points per spell-slot, so if you wanted a high-damage, no range, no duration, terrible chance to-hit, long casting time, expensive components spell as a first level spell you can have it, and the best of luck to you!

Ah... sort of rambling here now... sorry. But yeah, liking the OP suggestions! :)

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