New Order of the Stick Strip Up


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137ben wrote:
DM_Kumo Gekkou wrote:
I wonder if the people drakula turned are killing any dimigod priests that would vote NO, then they are going to come. Thus the escorts are dead until the turned priests are done.

That would probably violate the terms of the Moot.

It occurs to me, what if the first person to hear the cries for help is Belkar? Then he could run in, tell the others that the Creed of Stone people are all vampirized, and then help Roy.
...and maybe that's when he'll discover that his Protection from Evil item no longer hurts him....

They explicitly say that the neutral gods have no protection from the moot here.

Liberty's Edge

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Caineach wrote:
137ben wrote:
DM_Kumo Gekkou wrote:
I wonder if the people drakula turned are killing any dimigod priests that would vote NO, then they are going to come. Thus the escorts are dead until the turned priests are done.

That would probably violate the terms of the Moot.

It occurs to me, what if the first person to hear the cries for help is Belkar? Then he could run in, tell the others that the Creed of Stone people are all vampirized, and then help Roy.
...and maybe that's when he'll discover that his Protection from Evil item no longer hurts him....
They explicitly say that the neutral gods have no protection from the moot here.

Actually, as representatives of their deities, they do. The Creed of the Stone was fair game for Durkula because they were not representatives of any god. Not so the representatives of the demigods who are afforded the right to vote at the Godsmoot.

And Hel seems pretty sure that the majority of the demigods will vote Yes. No need to kill the few representatives who would vote No.


The Raven Black wrote:
Caineach wrote:
137ben wrote:
DM_Kumo Gekkou wrote:
I wonder if the people drakula turned are killing any dimigod priests that would vote NO, then they are going to come. Thus the escorts are dead until the turned priests are done.

That would probably violate the terms of the Moot.

It occurs to me, what if the first person to hear the cries for help is Belkar? Then he could run in, tell the others that the Creed of Stone people are all vampirized, and then help Roy.
...and maybe that's when he'll discover that his Protection from Evil item no longer hurts him....
They explicitly say that the neutral gods have no protection from the moot here.

Actually, as representatives of their deities, they do. The Creed of the Stone was fair game for Durkula because they were not representatives of any god. Not so the representatives of the demigods who are afforded the right to vote at the Godsmoot.

And Hel seems pretty sure that the majority of the demigods will vote Yes. No need to kill the few representatives who would vote No.

That or she turned the neutral cleric, then is ignoring the rules of the godsmoot by having him attack them before they realize he isn't who he says he is. Hel doesn't doesn't seem the type to care about rules, unless she can bend them to her advantage.


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Even more about dwarven society.


Fromper wrote:
Andostre wrote:
Is the moot actually in the Dwarven Homelands? If not, I wasn't exactly expecting Durkula to die here as he still has to fulfill his prophecy.
I'm pretty sure it is, and he already fulfilled that prophecy by coming here.

I don't think they're in dwarf lands yet, from a storytelling perspective, as if they have it hasn't really been stated. I would imagine that the first time that the order of the stick enters dwarf lands it will be a pretty big deal, especially with regard to durkon.

Also if I recall correctly vampires can reform elsewhere after being vaporized, so durkula wasn't killed and he and/durkon will definitely still have a part to play after this. (it would be a pretty anticlimatic way for him to die anyway)

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Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Andostre wrote:
Is the moot actually in the Dwarven Homelands? If not, I wasn't exactly expecting Durkula to die here as he still has to fulfill his prophecy.
I'm pretty sure it is, and he already fulfilled that prophecy by coming here.
I don't think they're in dwarf lands yet, from a storytelling perspective, as if they have it hasn't really been stated. I would imagine that the first time that the order of the stick enters dwarf lands it will be a pretty big deal, especially with regard to durkon.

I believe they are there already. And Durkula does not care about being in the Dwarven Homelands, even if Durkon does.


The Raven Black wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Andostre wrote:
Is the moot actually in the Dwarven Homelands? If not, I wasn't exactly expecting Durkula to die here as he still has to fulfill his prophecy.
I'm pretty sure it is, and he already fulfilled that prophecy by coming here.
I don't think they're in dwarf lands yet, from a storytelling perspective, as if they have it hasn't really been stated. I would imagine that the first time that the order of the stick enters dwarf lands it will be a pretty big deal, especially with regard to durkon.
I believe they are there already. And Durkula does not care about being in the Dwarven Homelands, even if Durkon does.

that's the thing, I haven't seen many dwarves around save for the ones present at the godsmoot, but they are there because they are priests not because they are dwarves.

I mean when they landed in gnome town, it was very obvious that they were in gnome lands, with gnomes everywhere doing gnomey things. And when they first crossed into northern airspace, even that was made apparent in the storytelling.

Maybe Rich is saving the idea that they may already be in dwarf territory (unlikely as the godsmoot is in the middle of a forest) for a dramatic reveal, which is not impossible, but I don't know, using my storytelling sense here, it's not how I would do it. Durkon/durkula needs to interact with his brethren by the end of his character arc in order for it to feel complete, and this has already been set up by Thor's priest recognizing his name.

Liberty's Edge

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Uninterrupted Torment

Dark Archive

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Damn that harm!


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tfw vampires can't feel pain


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Tie one down in the sun, then ask...


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Randarak wrote:
Tie one down in the sun, then ask...

Roy's going to have a hard time accomplishing that at this point


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Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Randarak wrote:
Tie one down in the sun, then ask...
Roy's going to have a hard time accomplishing that at this point

True.

I'm waiting for Belkar to make his return appearance during this fight.


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The Raven Black wrote:
Uninterrupted Torment

Title reminds me of my dating life.

Liberty's Edge

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Pretty good concentration roll I guess.

I am expecting that the next panel on this battle, which will need someone to come and save Roy and/or distract Durkula, will tie in with the last sentence.

And I wonder how much of it is pretense on Durkula's part. And how much is sincere.

Possibilities :

- Durkon telling Durkula that he did not feel hurt by the world.
- Another member of the OotS (likely not Roy) saying this and realizing that Durkula is not Durkon.
- The high priestess of Thor because of the mention of Durkon's family name. Not sure what she could do though.
- Durkon tricking Durkula into saving the world because death would be too soft. Or because it would be a better revenge for Durkula to set up the gods to die.


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At this point, I'm thinking Elan is the only possible chance left for a healing spell. Maybe with a most-of-strip-flashback describing how he got there in time to cast it? I certainly feel that Roy and Belkar need a hugely emotional reconciliation after this whole thing is finished.


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The Raven Black wrote:
- The high priestess of Thor because of the mention of Durkon's family name. Not sure what she could do though.

"Durkon Thundershield? But you are a cleric of Thor!

"Not anymore!"
"Yes, you are! You are officially registered as a cleric of Thor. You haven't followed the conversion procedure. According to our rules, you are cleric of Thor and as such you can't legitimately represent Hel on this moot!"


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An oots first: someone succeeded on a concentration check!


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Why didn't he kick off with harm then cause serious wounds and so on? Yes I know there is a narrative exposition to be had but... tactics?

Grand Lodge

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Pretty sure he was saving that harm for himself.


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strayshift wrote:
Why didn't he kick off with harm then cause serious wounds and so on? Yes I know there is a narrative exposition to be had but... tactics?

If roy made his save (fort, his good one) he'd lose about 70 hit points. Need to whittle him down first.

Durkula needed to see if that spellbane move could work on divine spells

Smart durkula would have cast it and then moved in with it on his hand... considering how concentration checks work in oots he may have actually done that....

Liberty's Edge

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Pretty sure he was saving that harm for himself.

Now that you say this, it does look like Roy expected it too and was surprised when Durkula targeted him with the Harm.

Tricky undead Cleric.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
strayshift wrote:
Why didn't he kick off with harm then cause serious wounds and so on? Yes I know there is a narrative exposition to be had but... tactics?
If roy made his save (fort, his good one) he'd lose about 70 hit points. Need to whittle him down first.

*cough* Shame that harm, like inflict wounds spells has Will save.

Saving it for the right moment instead of using as an opener was a sound tactic when the fight was initiated on Roy's terms. Using it at the beginning would made sense if Durkula ambushed Roy.


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Drejk wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
strayshift wrote:
Why didn't he kick off with harm then cause serious wounds and so on? Yes I know there is a narrative exposition to be had but... tactics?
If roy made his save (fort, his good one) he'd lose about 70 hit points. Need to whittle him down first.

*cough* Shame that harm, like inflict wounds spells has Will save.

Saving it for the right moment instead of using as an opener was a sound tactic when the fight was initiated on Roy's terms. Using it at the beginning would made sense if Durkula ambushed Roy.

I think we've established that his will save isn't bad either.


I don't understand the argument that the harm spell was better for Durkula to do later in the fight. Roy's saving throw is the same now as it was at the beginning.


Also put your enemy down as fast as possible is generally the aim.

Although we have established also a degree of hubris now from Hel...


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Andostre wrote:
I don't understand the argument that the harm spell was better for Durkula to do later in the fight. Roy's saving throw is the same now as it was at the beginning.

Durkula: "Har...

Roy: "SPELLBREAKER
Durkula: ...dammit to hel...


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Andostre wrote:
I don't understand the argument that the harm spell was better for Durkula to do later in the fight. Roy's saving throw is the same now as it was at the beginning.

If you use the Harm early, it makes Roy low on health, but he can still drink healing potions or whatever. If you use Harm later, it brings him down abruptly to negative HP and he's completely defeated.

Also, using Harm on him is a waste if you can make Domination or similar work.


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Keeping harm for later gives Durkula an option for healing onself if the things go poorly.

Quote:
I don't understand the argument that the harm spell was better for Durkula to do later in the fight. Roy's saving throw is the same now as it was at the beginning.

It isn't - every successful energy drain is -2 to saves. I don't remember Roy having any protection from negative levels, has he any?


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Matthew Downie wrote:
Andostre wrote:
I don't understand the argument that the harm spell was better for Durkula to do later in the fight. Roy's saving throw is the same now as it was at the beginning.
If you use the Harm early, it makes Roy low on health, but he can still drink healing potions or whatever. If you use Harm later, it brings him down abruptly to negative HP and he's completely defeated.

Not quite true:

Harm wrote:
Harm charges a subject with negative energy that deals 10 points of damage per caster level (to a maximum of 150 points at 15th level). If the creature successfully saves, harm deals half this amount, but it cannot reduce the target’s hit points to less than 1.


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The bolded part only applies to the successful save part of the spell. A failed save against Harm causes yhe victim to take 10 points of damage per caster level, never mind whether he would go below 1 hit point.


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Tectorman wrote:
The bolded part only applies to the successful save part of the spell. A failed save against Harm causes yhe victim to take 10 points of damage per caster level, never mind whether he would go below 1 hit point.

Not sure where the other poster quoted from, but the PRD has slightly different language and it can't lower you below 1 regardless of save or not.

PRD wrote:
Harm: Harm charges a subject with negative energy that deals 10 points of damage per caster level (to a maximum of 150 points at 15th level). If the creature successfully saves, harm deals half this amount. Harm cannot reduce the target's hit points to less than 1.


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Which is presumably why HPoH waited to use Harm until after Roy's will save had been reduced by negative levels.

EDIT:

Sniggevert wrote:

Not sure where the other poster quoted from, but the PRD has slightly different language and it can't lower you below 1 regardless of save or not.

PRD wrote:
Harm: Harm charges a subject with negative energy that deals 10 points of damage per caster level (to a maximum of 150 points at 15th level). If the creature successfully saves, harm deals half this amount. Harm cannot reduce the target's hit points to less than 1.

I'm quoting from the official SRD.


Yeah, it's important to remember that OOTS isn't being run in Pathfinder, but is still (at least for now) a 3.5E strip.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I didn't realize Paizo added a period in-between those statements.

Scarab Sages

jemstone wrote:
Yeah, it's important to remember that OOTS isn't being run in Pathfinder, but is still (at least for now) a 3.5E strip.

It's 3.5 with houserules. I'd say it's more like Pathfinder than base 3.5, although it does use the 3.5 AoO rules and Spiked Chains.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I never realized that 3.5 didn't have that restriction (on the failed save). And I primarily played a cleric then!

Based on the way harm used to work in 3.0 and prior editions, I can't imagine that being how it was intended to work.


Berinor wrote:

I never realized that 3.5 didn't have that restriction (on the failed save). And I primarily played a cleric then!

Based on the way harm used to work in 3.0 and prior editions, I can't imagine that being how it was intended to work.

That was pretty much my thought process.

As ridiculous as it was, I loved the old "Whoa! I've got 1d4 hp left!" version.

Scarab Sages

thejeff wrote:
Berinor wrote:

I never realized that 3.5 didn't have that restriction (on the failed save). And I primarily played a cleric then!

Based on the way harm used to work in 3.0 and prior editions, I can't imagine that being how it was intended to work.

That was pretty much my thought process.

As ridiculous as it was, I loved the old "Whoa! I've got 1d4 hp left!" version.

yeah, I always felt that the old 1st/2nd edition cleric was a more powerful offensive caster than 3.x, despite the lack of 9th level spells.


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Berinor wrote:

I never realized that 3.5 didn't have that restriction (on the failed save). And I primarily played a cleric then!

Based on the way harm used to work in 3.0 and prior editions, I can't imagine that being how it was intended to work.

We always played it the way the Pathfinder version works, long before Pathfinder appearing...


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Drejk wrote:
Berinor wrote:

I never realized that 3.5 didn't have that restriction (on the failed save). And I primarily played a cleric then!

Based on the way harm used to work in 3.0 and prior editions, I can't imagine that being how it was intended to work.

We always played it the way the Pathfinder version works, long before Pathfinder appearing...

I still say the monster in the dark is going to be the paizo golem...

Grand Lodge

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Drejk wrote:
We always played it the way the Pathfinder version works, long before Pathfinder appearing...

I could see parsing the sentence either way in 3.5, so I imagine the PF change was just to remove any doubt.


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Drejk wrote:
Berinor wrote:

I never realized that 3.5 didn't have that restriction (on the failed save). And I primarily played a cleric then!

Based on the way harm used to work in 3.0 and prior editions, I can't imagine that being how it was intended to work.

We always played it the way the Pathfinder version works, long before Pathfinder appearing...

Same, and that's also how it worked in 3.0/3.5 based video games like Neverwinter Nights.


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Does the comic have an update schedule or is it just when the giant gets one up?


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Its whenever the author gets one completed and posted.


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It hasn't had an update schedule for years. The story is told best that way and it works best with Rich's illness

Liberty's Edge

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And that's a good thing--I'd rather have stuff come out as it's finished by a happy cartoonist than on a schedule from an unhappy one, and he's working pretty well under that regime.

Liberty's Edge

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To be completely sincere, the latest strips have been coming out at a high frequency ;-)

Scarab Sages

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The Raven Black wrote:
To be completely sincere, the latest strips have been coming out at a high frequency ;-)

Especially when compared to the great thumb injury gap....

Liberty's Edge

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