PCGen 5.16.4 (Production) Released


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PCGen, the worlds most flexible d20 character generation and maintenance software, announces the release and immediate availability of PCGen 5.16.4!

Download your free copy here

PCGen v5.16.4 is the fourth patch to PCGen v5.16 and sees some significant additions and improvements to the previous stable version. Among these are a number of new sources added to the standard distribution, including Paizo's Advanced Players Guide and four other Pathfinder sources. Additionally, a number of bugs have been fixed, including a few to GMGen, For a full list of these and all other changes, checkout the Release Notes

PCGen is an RPG character generator and maintenance program (d20 systems). All datafiles are ASCII text files so they can be modified by users for their own campaigns. For more information about PCGen, join us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen/ or visit our website at http://pcgen.sourceforge.net and wiki athttp://wiki.pcgen.org/.

This software uses trademarks and/or copyrights owned by Paizo Publishing, LLC, which are used under Paizo's Community Use Policy. We are expressly prohibited from charging you to use or access this content. This software is not published, endorsed, or specifically approved by Paizo Publishing. For more information about Paizo's Community Use Policy, please visit paizo.com/communityuse. For more information about Paizo Publishing and Paizo products, please visit Paizo.Com.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I DL'd this software and installed it, but the classes from APG aren't in the drop downs...


Kryzbyn wrote:
I DL'd this software and installed it, but the classes from APG aren't in the drop downs...

On the start up screen, make sure you've selected the APG for loading from the Paizo folder in the tree, then make sure all the Paizo stuff is loaded. I don't think it loads the APG by default when you select Paizo.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Ok I got it.
I'm making an Inquisitor, but it says im unable to choose a domain...


"Feats and Abilities" tab, "Class Abilities" sub-tab, "Inquisitor Domain Choice"

-- david
Papa.DRB

Kryzbyn wrote:

Ok I got it.

I'm making an Inquisitor, but it says im unable to choose a domain...


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Papa-DRB wrote:

"Feats and Abilities" tab, "Class Abilities" sub-tab, "Inquisitor Domain Choice"

-- david
Papa.DRB

Kryzbyn wrote:

Ok I got it.

I'm making an Inquisitor, but it says im unable to choose a domain...

Ermm...ok.

Silly me assuming it was under domains in spellcasting ;)
Thanks, sorry for bein such a noob.


Yea, that caught me also when I was doing some initial debug of the APG dataset. Since the character does not actually get any spells or extra spell slots, *just* the domain powers, in my mind it is more of a class ability than a spell ability.

However, I understand your initial thinking.

-- david
Papa.DRB

Kryzbyn wrote:


Ermm...ok.
Silly me assuming it was under domains in spellcasting ;)
Thanks, sorry for bein such a noob.


Installed this earlier and was poking around a bit, but I couldn't see a way to create Gestalt characters. Does this have any support for them?


Laithoron wrote:
Installed this earlier and was poking around a bit, but I couldn't see a way to create Gestalt characters. Does this have any support for them?

Last time I checked, Gestalt's weren't in the rules for PFRPG anywhere, and are a remnant of another version of the OGL/D20 rules - so if they don't exist in the PFRPG, there's no reason for the PCGen crew to make them available within the Pathfinder rules source.

I could be wrong, but that seems to make the most sense to me.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

How do you assign evolutions to an Eidolon?

I figured out that you load one up as race and class...
but I couldn't find the evolutions...


There is no built-in support for Gestalt characters. You can create them, by line by line comparing the base class in the class.lst file and creating your own class.

The biggest issue occurs when doubling up on spell casting classes. I am not sure it works.

This question would better be answered on the PCGen List File Yahoo group.

-- david
Papa.DRB
PCGen Yahoo group moderator

Laithoron wrote:
Installed this earlier and was poking around a bit, but I couldn't see a way to create Gestalt characters. Does this have any support for them?


Create the Summoner, save him. Then on the Tab - Inventory, Sub-Tab - Resources, select the Eidolon. Name the creature, save and PCGen will switch you to the Eidolon "character". Tab - Feats & Abilities, Sub-Tab - Class Abilities, select Eidolon Evolution.

If you join the PCGen List File Yahoo group, these question will be answered on a more timely basis because the whole community will be able to help.

-- david
Papa.DRB
PCGen Yahoo group moderator

Kryzbyn wrote:

How do you assign evolutions to an Eidolon?

I figured out that you load one up as race and class...
but I couldn't find the evolutions...


jemstone wrote:

Last time I checked, Gestalt's weren't in the rules for PFRPG anywhere, and are a remnant of another version of the OGL/D20 rules - so if they don't exist in the PFRPG, there's no reason for the PCGen crew to make them available within the Pathfinder rules source.

I could be wrong, but that seems to make the most sense to me.

That would make sense if PCGen was a Pathfinder RPG specific product, however it's not.

PCGen supports dozens (if not hundreds) of OGL products from various versions of d20 and multiple publishers, not just Pathfinder RPG. Just because we're on Paizo's forums doesn't mean that they have custom-tailored the app to work only with Pathfinder RPG.

At any rate, thanks, David, for the prompt reply.


Laithoron wrote:
jemstone wrote:

Last time I checked, Gestalt's weren't in the rules for PFRPG anywhere, and are a remnant of another version of the OGL/D20 rules - so if they don't exist in the PFRPG, there's no reason for the PCGen crew to make them available within the Pathfinder rules source.

I could be wrong, but that seems to make the most sense to me.

That would make sense if PCGen was a Pathfinder RPG specific product, however it's not.

PCGen supports dozens (if not hundreds) of OGL products from various versions of d20 and multiple publishers, not just Pathfinder RPG. Just because we're on Paizo's forums doesn't mean that they have custom-tailored the app to work only with Pathfinder RPG.

At any rate, thanks, David, for the prompt reply.

PC Gen has data files. If you want the 3.5 stuff, you have to load the 3.5 data files, not the PFs. For gestalt, that's purely 3.5, nothing got ported to PF.

It would be a valid criticism to say it's not part of 3.5 files though.

Note that I don't think there's currently a way to add in the feats/etc from the 3.5 splat books (not that there are many available due to licensing restrictions).

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I don't know if something is wrong, or if I'm missing something:

I'm creating a human character that I want to give the Racial Heritage Feat. The feat allows you to choose another race and be able to qualify for feats for another race (e.g., a human could take a feat with the dwarf prerequisite if "dwarf" was picked as the other race).

Nothing allows you to pick the "other race to qualify for other feats" -- and all racial feats remain unallowable, even after taking the Racial Heritage feat.

However, I note on my character sheet, the character has as his race "(Human, Human)". Which suggests that somehow he is assigned an extra racial subtype... just that it is human.

I've checked all the tabs in the Feats area (feats, racial abilities, traits, etc.). I've also checked the Race section, but there's no applicable template to apply and the main race tab just completely changes the character's race.


Laithoron wrote:
jemstone wrote:

Last time I checked, Gestalt's weren't in the rules for PFRPG anywhere, and are a remnant of another version of the OGL/D20 rules - so if they don't exist in the PFRPG, there's no reason for the PCGen crew to make them available within the Pathfinder rules source.

I could be wrong, but that seems to make the most sense to me.

That would make sense if PCGen was a Pathfinder RPG specific product, however it's not.

PCGen supports dozens (if not hundreds) of OGL products from various versions of d20 and multiple publishers, not just Pathfinder RPG. Just because we're on Paizo's forums doesn't mean that they have custom-tailored the app to work only with Pathfinder RPG.

At any rate, thanks, David, for the prompt reply.

I never said that PCGen was Pathfinder "only," please don't put words into my mouth. I merely stated that since Gestalt rules don't exist within the PFRPG, there's no reason to make them available within the PFRPG ruleset in PCGen. I'm sure you could insert them into the Data Source files if you wanted to, from a ruleset that has them available.

Once you get the hang of muddling about with the data source files, it gets pretty easy to make any changes you want to make. Just a matter of putting things in the right file.


Nothing wrong, and you have not missed anything. It has just not been coded in yet. Here is the comment about this feat:

# TODO: Figure method to set this complex beast up. Moderate Difficulty. Counts as second race for everything related to it.

When feats/skills/fcbs/etc were not easy to code up, just the description / benefit was coded and the details left out. As time goes on, we will be adding these things in.

-- david
Papa.DRB

DeathQuaker wrote:

I don't know if something is wrong, or if I'm missing something:

I'm creating a human character that I want to give the Racial Heritage Feat. The feat allows you to choose another race and be able to qualify for feats for another race (e.g., a human could take a feat with the dwarf prerequisite if "dwarf" was picked as the other race).

Nothing allows you to pick the "other race to qualify for other feats" -- and all racial feats remain unallowable, even after taking the Racial Heritage feat.

However, I note on my character sheet, the character has as his race "(Human, Human)". Which suggests that somehow he is assigned an extra racial subtype... just that it is human.

I've checked all the tabs in the Feats area (feats, racial abilities, traits, etc.). I've also checked the Race section, but there's no applicable template to apply and the main race tab just completely changes the character's race.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Laithoron wrote:
jemstone wrote:

Last time I checked, Gestalt's weren't in the rules for PFRPG anywhere, and are a remnant of another version of the OGL/D20 rules - so if they don't exist in the PFRPG, there's no reason for the PCGen crew to make them available within the Pathfinder rules source.

I could be wrong, but that seems to make the most sense to me.

That would make sense if PCGen was a Pathfinder RPG specific product, however it's not.

PCGen supports dozens (if not hundreds) of OGL products from various versions of d20 and multiple publishers, not just Pathfinder RPG. Just because we're on Paizo's forums doesn't mean that they have custom-tailored the app to work only with Pathfinder RPG.

At any rate, thanks, David, for the prompt reply.

Let's just say that Gestalt is such a major headache to implement they never got to it even when PCGen was just a 3.5 product. Gestalt is not just an added feature it would require tearing apart the core d20 engine and rebuilding it just to support one VERY optional part of an optional ruleset. I do recall that it was a MAJOR headache for the Heroforge people when they did it.

Given that 3.5 is a dead zombie system, they've obviously chosen to priortise their volounteer work on actively supported rulesets.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
jemstone wrote:


I never said that PCGen was Pathfinder "only," please don't put words into my mouth. I merely stated that since Gestalt rules don't exist within the PFRPG, there's no reason to make them available within the PFRPG ruleset in PCGen. I'm sure you could insert them into the Data Source files if you wanted to, from a ruleset that has them available.

Once you get the hang of muddling about with the data source files, it gets pretty easy to make any changes you want to make. Just a matter of putting things in the right file.

There isn't a dataset that supports them, because unlike new classes and races, implementing Gestalt means tearing down and rebuilding the inner core mechanics of PC Gen itself which is a lot to ask for one very marginal mechanic.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Papa-DRB wrote:

Nothing wrong, and you have not missed anything. It has just not been coded in yet. Here is the comment about this feat:

# TODO: Figure method to set this complex beast up. Moderate Difficulty. Counts as second race for everything related to it.

When feats/skills/fcbs/etc were not easy to code up, just the description / benefit was coded and the details left out. As time goes on, we will be adding these things in.

Ah, thanks! I figured it would be difficult to do, I just didn't see the comment.

Since I think the feat has to do with qualifying for other feats, and grant no other racial features, maybe there is just a way you can select a group of feats you wish to be able to qualify for, rather than code something into the race? (I barely know anything about programming mind, and may well be talking out of my arse.)

In the meantime, is there a way to "cheat" to take a feat you normally don't qualify for?

Thanks again!

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

DeathQuaker, try Settings/Preferences/Character - House Rules and select Bypass Feat Prerequisites.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Some things I did notice. I can't add the additional costs to get flight speed beyond the base value for Eidolons. The Human benefit for additional Sorcerer spells can be selected but additional spells are not given, nor are the bloodline bonus spells.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Joe Wells wrote:
DeathQuaker, try Settings/Preferences/Character - House Rules and select Bypass Feat Prerequisites.

Yes, of course! I was staring straight at that the other day. Thank you, and sorry for being a ditz.


As usual, this program wants to make me bang my head on the desk until the pain stops.

I can't even find the PFSRD rule set.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Cartigan wrote:

As usual, this program wants to make me bang my head on the desk until the pain stops.

I can't even find the PFSRD rule set.

it's in the Alpha directory, under Paizo.

Yeah, I had to go digging for it too.

It's annoying, Herolab is a bit easier to use (It should be, I'm paying for it. :) ), but PC Gen is a lot easier for me to code in new classes/races/feats et all.


I might be technologically impaired here, but I can't get the APG material to load. I go to the advanced screen and it is either red (meaning I can't load it) or when I move it over to the load screen it just sits there limply and doesn't highlight the "load" button. Help please. Also when you answer speak to me slowly and carefully like you're describing the steps to a kindergarten student. Thanks!


You must select the Core Rules (move to the right panel) before you can select the APG.

-- david
Papa.DRB

MendedWall12 wrote:
I might be technologically impaired here, but I can't get the APG material to load. I go to the advanced screen and it is either red (meaning I can't load it) or when I move it over to the load screen it just sits there limply and doesn't highlight the "load" button. Help please. Also when you answer speak to me slowly and carefully like you're describing the steps to a kindergarten student. Thanks!


I just added that in my personal list files for the Inquisitor yesterday. If you want, I can send you instructions on how to add it for the Human Sorcerer. It is a simple update in two files. Send me an email at

Spoiler:
papa_drb@yahoo.com
and I'll reply back to you.

-- david
Papa.DRB

LazarX wrote:
Some things I did notice. I can't add the additional costs to get flight speed beyond the base value for Eidolons. The Human benefit for additional Sorcerer spells can be selected but additional spells are not given, nor are the bloodline bonus spells.


Matthew Morris wrote:
Cartigan wrote:

As usual, this program wants to make me bang my head on the desk until the pain stops.

I can't even find the PFSRD rule set.

it's in the Alpha directory, under Paizo.

All I found was Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting.

PCGen has never been easy to use and it isn't getting any easier. I wish that lazy jerkass that made Redblade would just release what work he has done on the new Redblade to the community. Then we could at least have a GOOD free character creator.

Character Tool would be better if it made any damn sense. And it is still better than PCGen.

Dark Archive

Cartigan wrote:


All I found was Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting.

I'd say you have selected the 3.5 Game Mode.

Settings
Game Mode/Campaign
The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Standard

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Cartigan wrote:

As usual, this program wants to make me bang my head on the desk until the pain stops.

I can't even find the PFSRD rule set.

1. When you load PCGen, click once on the Settings Menu.

2. When the drop down menu appears, hover over the first option you see: Game Mode/Campaign.

3. A second drop down menu will appear. You will see "The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game" as the 8th one down, below the MSRD and above Spycraft.

4. You will see it allows you to choose "Standard" which is for players, and "for Game Masters" which includes the full Bestiary.

5. Once you select the one you want it will load. If you want to load the APG as well, look to the left side of the screen where the alternate Pathfinder datasets are listed. Click the triangle to open the Alpha Datasets, then from there open the Pathfinder Roleplaying game, and from there the Advanced Players guide. You may have to "unload" the core rules and then click "load all" to make both the core rules and APG load.

I suggest reading the program's documentation if you are having further trouble.


DeathQuaker wrote:
Cartigan wrote:

As usual, this program wants to make me bang my head on the desk until the pain stops.

I can't even find the PFSRD rule set.

1. When you load PCGen, click once on the Settings Menu.

2. When the drop down menu appears, hover over the first option you see: Game Mode/Campaign.

3. A second drop down menu will appear. You will see "The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game" as the 8th one down, below the MSRD and above Spycraft.

4. You will see it allows you to choose "Standard" which is for players, and "for Game Masters" which includes the full Bestiary.

5. Once you select the one you want it will load. If you want to load the APG as well, look to the left side of the screen where the alternate Pathfinder datasets are listed. Click the triangle to open the Alpha Datasets, then from there open the Pathfinder Roleplaying game, and from there the Advanced Players guide. You may have to "unload" the core rules and then click "load all" to make both the core rules and APG load.

I suggest reading the program's documentation if you are having further trouble.

This is asinine. Asinine. It would be simpler to add each individual, class, spell, and feat into Redblade than deal with PCGen. Seriously, you need to follow a series of 5 steps to load a rule set? Are you kidding me?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Honey, I have to admit I was actually being just a touch facetious in tone when I wrote that up. I'd hoped you'd see how easy it was--just maybe a step more than it takes to open a file in a word processor (YMMV depending on the word processing program you use, of course).

If it causes you that much frustration, then I don't recommend using it. A character generator program should not be the source of such irritation.

Good luck with whatever character generation software you decide to use or write up.


DeathQuaker wrote:
I'd hoped you'd see how easy it was--just maybe a step more than it takes to open a file in a word processor (YMMV depending on the word processing program you use, of course).

Except it shouldn't require that. When you start the program, there is a default HUGE list on the side of different things. Impressively, none of them seem to be the PFSRD - in order to get that, you have to start screwing with stuff. That's just bad design.

Shadow Lodge

DeathQuaker wrote:
Cartigan wrote:

As usual, this program wants to make me bang my head on the desk until the pain stops.

I can't even find the PFSRD rule set.

1. When you load PCGen, click once on the Settings Menu.

2. When the drop down menu appears, hover over the first option you see: Game Mode/Campaign.

3. A second drop down menu will appear. You will see "The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game" as the 8th one down, below the MSRD and above Spycraft.

4. You will see it allows you to choose "Standard" which is for players, and "for Game Masters" which includes the full Bestiary.

5. Once you select the one you want it will load. If you want to load the APG as well, look to the left side of the screen where the alternate Pathfinder datasets are listed. Click the triangle to open the Alpha Datasets, then from there open the Pathfinder Roleplaying game, and from there the Advanced Players guide. You may have to "unload" the core rules and then click "load all" to make both the core rules and APG load.

I suggest reading the program's documentation if you are having further trouble.

I LOLed.

PCGen

Cartigan,

the default mode that a new installation of PCGen starts up in is 3.5 mode and thus only 3.5 sources show up in the source selection window. The Pathfinder RPG is a different beast than 3.5 and thus requires its own game mode. Switching the game mode is just a simple selection from the menu. If that proves to much for you, than I fear that most certainly this program - and by extension, probably any program that uses windows and menus - is too complex for you.

As a developer on the PCGen program, I really like to help our users with their problems, but in your case I am willing to make an exception. If you don't like the program, that's fine, but I really see no need for you to be as abusive and offensive as you are.

So my advice for you is, just don't use it. Go away.

Regards,
Stefan.


Stefan Radermacher wrote:
If that proves to much for you, than I fear that most certainly this program - and by extension, probably any program that uses windows and menus - is too complex for you.

This fact is explained exactly... nowhere. And why would I think to look in settings to change Campaign Mode - settings generally implies program settings where I wouldn't consider campaign mode a program setting? Especially if I am not expecting that you can't just load whatever you want from the extensive start up list? *Insert blah blah manual* Your average user is actually NOT going to read the manual and for something so simple, they shouldn't have to. The program should be internally direct and not confusing.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Cartigan wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
I'd hoped you'd see how easy it was--just maybe a step more than it takes to open a file in a word processor (YMMV depending on the word processing program you use, of course).
Except it shouldn't require that. When you start the program, there is a default HUGE list on the side of different things. Impressively, none of them seem to be the PFSRD - in order to get that, you have to start screwing with stuff. That's just bad design.

The default huge list on the side of different things are all the datasets you can load for, specifically, the 3.5 ruleset--all the optional OGL classes, feats, etc. made available to PC Gen by various 3PP. You will see stuff labeled "Pathfinder" because they have datasets for the 3.5 Pathfinder Adventure Paths, which came out before the Pathfinder core rules.

When you select the Pathfinder rules, you will see a slightly less huge list on the side of different things that go with only the Pathfinder ruleset. (Likewise, if you pick the MSRD, you'll get only d20 Modern supplements, and if you pick Spycraft, you'll get only Spycraft supplements, etc.)

Note that once you set the game to a different Game Mode, PC Gen will always start up in that Game Mode, so if all you use is Pathfinder, you should never have to go through it again once you do it the first time.

For the record, in an earlier build of PCGen (16.2 maybe?) they did have a different start up screen where you can pick your ruleset from there; I don't know why they changed it.

I want to note for the record that I am a secretary with a degree in English, not a software engineer, and I have no affiliation with PC Gen's coders.


Cartigan wrote:
Stefan Radermacher wrote:
If that proves to much for you, than I fear that most certainly this program - and by extension, probably any program that uses windows and menus - is too complex for you.
This fact is explained exactly... nowhere. And why would I think to look in settings to change Campaign Mode - settings generally implies program settings where I wouldn't consider campaign mode a program setting? Especially if I am not expecting that you can't just load whatever you want from the extensive start up list? *Insert blah blah manual* Your average user is actually NOT going to read the manual and for something so simple, they shouldn't have to. The program should be internally direct and not confusing.

Uhm,

Actually, it is. In the documentation, in the WIKI for the program, and if you hit F1 you can navigate the help and find it.

Your inability to do minimal reading of documentation or help files is not a bug in the design of the software.

I'll not comment on your personality and abusive postings, other than to say that I have yet to see a single post from you in any thread that doesn't have some snide abusive sentence in it.


DeathQuaker wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
I'd hoped you'd see how easy it was--just maybe a step more than it takes to open a file in a word processor (YMMV depending on the word processing program you use, of course).
Except it shouldn't require that. When you start the program, there is a default HUGE list on the side of different things. Impressively, none of them seem to be the PFSRD - in order to get that, you have to start screwing with stuff. That's just bad design.

The default huge list on the side of different things are all the datasets you can load for, specifically, the 3.5 ruleset--all the optional OGL classes, feats, etc. made available to PC Gen by various 3PP. You will see stuff labeled "Pathfinder" because they have datasets for the 3.5 Pathfinder Adventure Paths, which came out before the Pathfinder core rules.

That's plain after having it pointed out that you have to change campaign settings, but having all that there at start just serves to be confusing.


mdt wrote:


Your inability to do minimal reading of documentation or help files is not a bug in the design of the software.

A bug and poor design are two different things. The performance of basic functions shouldn't require having the wiki (which I have no idea where THAT exists) or other documentation to explain it to you.


Cartigan wrote:
mdt wrote:


Your inability to do minimal reading of documentation or help files is not a bug in the design of the software.
A bug and poor design are two different things. The performance of basic functions shouldn't require having the wiki (which I have no idea where THAT exists) or other documentation to explain it to you.

Primus, note I said it was not a bug in design, I didn't say it was not a bug. In other words, you have basically said "It's not a bug, it's a design flaw" in response to my saying it was not a flaw in the design.

Secundus, the help files and documentation are built into the app, and there's a link on the help menu to the WIKI. Help and documentation are there for people who aren't familiar with the program.

You are basically demanding that the people that wrote the program cater to your preconcieved notions of how it should work. That somehow they should have a time machine to see what you want it to be in the future and write it that way. I don't have the words for how utterly arrogant that is, that if you don't approve of it, then it's a design flaw. And you are so arrogant that you refuse to read the documentation.

I'm fairly certain you're one of those people who bring tech devices back to Best Buy screaming that they don't work, because you were too arrogant to read the setup manual before you tried to plug your home theater audio system into the video in ports of your HD TV.


mdt wrote:
I'm fairly certain

I am fairly certain you have no idea what you are talking about.

Quote:
you're one of those people who bring tech devices back to Best Buy screaming that they don't work, because you were too arrogant to read the setup manual before you tried to plug your home theater audio system into the video in ports of your HD TV.

Most devices are straight forward due to the assumption people are idiots. Which is correct. If people have to go DIGGING to perform BASIC tasks, then you have failed in your design.


Cartigan wrote:
mdt wrote:
I'm fairly certain

I am fairly certain you have no idea what you are talking about.

Quote:
you're one of those people who bring tech devices back to Best Buy screaming that they don't work, because you were too arrogant to read the setup manual before you tried to plug your home theater audio system into the video in ports of your HD TV.
Most devices are straight forward due to the assumption people are idiots. Which is correct. If people have to go DIGGING to perform BASIC tasks, then you have failed in your design.

At least we agree on that, the design team did not make the assumption you were an idiot, and they assumed you'd read the documentation.

I guess them failing to take into account that you might be an idiot could be considered a failure in design, but really, I can't fault them for it.


I use PCGen. I like PCGen. I've even volunteered to be a Data Lemur (although I haven't had time to do it recently, due to real life).

However, it is not easy to use. In fact, it is one of the most difficult-to-use programs I have used in a long time. I don't complain about it, though, because the program is free and open source. A fitting response by the makers of the program to people complaining about ease of use is "design and build a better UI, and we'll use it".

I liken PCGen to the UNIX command line (at least, back in the day). It's hard to use, and if you aren't comfortable with it you may not be able to do a lot, but once you learn it, it is very powerful.


Distant Scholar wrote:

I use PCGen. I like PCGen. I've even volunteered to be a Data Lemur (although I haven't had time to do it recently, due to real life).

However, it is not easy to use. In fact, it is one of the most difficult-to-use programs I have used in a long time. I don't complain about it, though, because the program is free and open source. A fitting response by the makers of the program to people complaining about ease of use is "design and build a better UI, and we'll use it".

I liken PCGen to the UNIX command line (at least, back in the day). It's hard to use, and if you aren't comfortable with it you may not be able to do a lot, but once you learn it, it is very powerful.

However, I suspect when you have an issue, you check the manual, the help files, the WIKI, the yahoo groups group.

I suspect you don't post on a third parties website that you are too good to read the documentation and arrogantly declare that the program is beneath your contempt?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Distant Lemur, I agree that PCGen definitely could use a GUI overhaul, but I'd rather them continue to work on ironing the bugs out of the Pathfinder ruleset and getting all the APG stuff working first before they do that. I don't find it as tough as a UNIX command line though. :) If it required that much pre-knowledge of technical stuff I'd never be able to use it. I'm a pretty bog standard "layperson" when it comes to computer stuff and I can use it pretty well. Mind, though, I've been using its various iterations for many years now, to be fair.


YEAH!

Thanks, PCGen people.


Cartigan wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
I'd hoped you'd see how easy it was--just maybe a step more than it takes to open a file in a word processor (YMMV depending on the word processing program you use, of course).
Except it shouldn't require that. When you start the program, there is a default HUGE list on the side of different things. Impressively, none of them seem to be the PFSRD - in order to get that, you have to start screwing with stuff. That's just bad design.

The default huge list on the side of different things are all the datasets you can load for, specifically, the 3.5 ruleset--all the optional OGL classes, feats, etc. made available to PC Gen by various 3PP. You will see stuff labeled "Pathfinder" because they have datasets for the 3.5 Pathfinder Adventure Paths, which came out before the Pathfinder core rules.

That's plain after having it pointed out that you have to change campaign settings, but having all that there at start just serves to be confusing.

Actually I started to see his point, so I started up the latest version and then saw that that at the top of the screen in the title bar it says 3.5e campaign. And then after looking at the Paizo section and seeing that Pathfinder wasn't anywhere to be found.

Assuming that I was a new user to PCGen I would have started playing with ALL available options, and found the Gamemode/Campaign section would have figured out the problem. But then I could be a non-average person. :)


I've never really had a problem using this software, but for some reason I can't for the life of me figure out how to select a favored class. Can anyone enlighten me?

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