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Summoner Concepts.
I know this thread has probably already been posted.
Initially I disliked the summoner, as I watched the eidolon out fight the fighter in PFS games. I also didn’t like that the summoner because he got Haste as a second level spell accessible at 4th level.
I asked the designers what the thinking behind the class was by posting a query on the message boards, and one of them was nice enough to answer. The idea is to give arcane casters a “combat pet” to use a WOW term, and to allow Players to “play the monster”.
I have seen a number of interesting concepts. In a DC pathfinder society game, I saw a player Play a summoner, where the Eidolon was the “master”. He would say, “master says this” or “master says that”. It was amusing and I think a fun idea.
In a NC Pathfinder society game, at the Mace convention I went to a couple of weeks ago, another player had her eidolon as a giant flying bunny with big teeth and eyes.
After looking at the Paizo blog, I saw Sully and Mike of Monster’s Inc. This made me think that a fun character concept might be Sully and Boo (the little girl). The little girl Boo could be the summoner, and Sully could be her "monster" Eidolon that cane through her closet at night. Perhaps they went through the closet together to "explore" other worlds.
Another idea might be a Genie and Aladdin. There are lots of possibilities.
What other concepts have you come up with or are thinking about?
The boy and the monster from "The NeverEnding Story", or the girl and the similar monster from "Spirited Away". I haven't played a Summoner yet, so I'm not sure if the Eidolon is made of tissue paper at low levels. That one-minute calling duration has me stumped.
Another variation would be the myriad of examples from "Jo-Jo's Bizarre Adventure" (anime about Stands) and Scryed (anime), both of which have been compared to using Astral Construct.
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I found a Poly summoner online that was a varient to the summoner. allowed the summoner to have multiple types of eidolons. They could only have out one at a time though, They might of eventually gotten the ability to use two at high levels.
at 20th level they got a total of six eidolons...
does anybody predict what I am about to say?
One of my PC's in my gaming world wanted to play... thats right... a pokemon trainer...
it didnt violate the rules and I was a fan of the old gameboy games so sure why the hell not, great way to play test...
wasnt that bad, the person had a lot of fun looking for the "stones of power" from the other "Eidolon Masters" in the world.... hilarious
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Thank you all for posting your ideas.
KilroySummoner, Im afraid I don not know what a Trogdor is.
Jhpace1, yes the never ending story is a good one, with I think it was a “luck dragon”. And yes I liked Spirited away allot. It has been years since I have seen it.
I don’t know too much about the summoner yet, or weather it is made of “tissue paper’ but it is fun to think up some concepts.
Midninhtoker, while the thought of Pokeman would make me cringe, however, if your player had fun, that’s the important thing.
I would love to hear some more ideas, thank you.
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Depending on the game world, you can play with the local associations.
In the Scarred Lands, the country of Calastia is run by a King who calls himself 'the Black Dragon' and uses a black dragon in the heraldry of the nation. A local summoner could start with a quadruped that appears much like a scaly panther or komodo dragon, with vestigial wings and dark black scales, and progress it up to 'mini-dragon' with wings and a breath weapon, as levels accrue.
In Golarion, the Thassilonians are said to have enslaved black dragons and used them as beasts of burden, leaving such a foul taste in the mouths of the species that they avoid that region even now, centuries later. An 'heir to Thassilon' from the region might similarly build up a black-dragon-esque Eidolon.
In Brevoy, House Rorgavia conquered the nation and united it with the assistance of a pair of red dragons that seemed to serve the warlord who took over. A summoner could consider himself an heir to vanished House Rorgavia, and summon up a red dragon-esque Eidolon, thinking that he is tapping into whatever ancient pact his infamous ancestor exploited to take over the nation.
In Osirion, serpents would be logical choices for devotees of either of the two lesser snake-dieties mentioned in the Osirion companion (Apep and Wedjet?), and a quadruped base would be a good starting point to fashion an Eidolon in the shape of a giant scarab beetle, for a devotee of Khepri.
Qadira would be the place where bipedal 'genies' would be called up by Summoners, perhaps striking with fiery fists, or a generous DM could allow a fourth base form, for an Avian Eidolon, fashioned to eventually represent a mighty Roc.
Andora would also benefit from an avian form, as the country is associated with hawks, eagles, etc., although one could have an 'avoral' Eidolon, starting with a Biped, and adding Wings as soon as possible, to ape the appearance of the nations patron Outsider.
Mwangi Summoners could choose Ape-like Eidolons, starting with a Biped and perhaps adding additional limbs (for a Girallon-esque Eidolon) or horns, etc. for a half-fiendish Angazahn-Ape look. Alternately, dinosaurs work, starting with either bipeds for Velociraptors / Carnasaurs or Quadrupeds for Ankylosaurs / Triceratops. Giant snakes also work for Mwangi Summoners, or various other critters, such as a quadruped that is headed for a Rhinoceros-like size or appearance, could be fun as well.
A Vudran able to call up a four-armed, six-armed or whatever biped with three faces and tongues of fire, would evoke the exotic appearances of many Hindu dieties.
Race could also play a part. It would be a natural fit for a Gnoll Summoner to take a quadruped and make it the biggest, meanest hyena that ever chortled at someone before ripping their face off, while a Lizardfolk would be well-suited to a Serpentine or Quadrupedal form that ends up becoming a Large (or larger) monitor lizard or crocigator of some sort.
The Iridian Fold, mentioned in City of Strangers and the Campaign Setting, pairs of men who travel together, faces obscured by helms or veils, make good 'cover' for a travelling Summoner. Since Summoners can wear leather, studded leather or chain shirts, the Summoner could either be the veiled figure or the armored 'warrior.' If Beta rules are available, he could even have the Eidolon able to cast a few spells, and create the illusion that he's the warrior and the Eidolon is a caster, switching things up as necessary.
Presumably, Ultimate Magic will offer up some options for other sorts of Eidolons, such as Constructs, Plants and Undead, opening up a bunch of new options for Summoners that appear to be tinkering their Eidolons up, or to have bonded with the natural world, or to be some sort of necromancers.
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I named my summoner The "Pappa"teer. He used to perform puppet shows for his children when they were still kids. That was before his children were MURDERED by the Andorans for being loyalists to the great empire of Cheliax when those rebel scum declared independence. Now he adventures to further the plans of Cheliax to once again reclaim the land of the soon to be regretful people of Andor.
I call him Digelon. I named him such after my party felt it was important to search through a pile of dead bodies we came across. A pile that spewed several monsters who took us by surprise when we first encountered the pile.
What about an Aasimar OR Tiefling summoner who calls for the help of his celestial OR fiendish ancestor? Since outsiders cannot die from old age, that could make perfect sense, even if the summoner and his ancestor are distant relatives.
I found a Poly summoner online that was a varient to the summoner. allowed the summoner to have multiple types of eidolons. They could only have out one at a time though, They might of eventually gotten the ability to use two at high levels.
at 20th level they got a total of six eidolons...
does anybody predict what I am about to say?
One of my PC's in my gaming world wanted to play... thats right... a pokemon trainer...
it didnt violate the rules and I was a fan of the old gameboy games so sure why the hell not, great way to play test...
wasnt that bad, the person had a lot of fun looking for the "stones of power" from the other "Eidolon Masters" in the world.... hilarious
Great to hear you liked it (author of mod here). Any issues come up in game play with the mod?
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during the playtests for the summoner I created & ran over several levels 1-20 a summoner - apparently I was in the minority of players who tried to optimise the &^#% out of it & went more for concept
my concept - Ripley & a biped alien - the eidolon went from claw/claw bite & only included the tail attack once the eidolon got to large size around level 12 I think
it was a great character to play and was not over the top like some builds and was disappointing to read the APG & find my class too badly nerfed to play fully - still a great concept
I had another which was to be Buffy & her pet - pick one zombie, vamp, golem/robot of herself - so many ideas from that show
One proto-campaign I'm looking to get into had a background of a human culture which was particularly well-versed in the manufacture and crafting of metallic and mechanical items. The summoner idea I had in mind, then, bore some resemblance to the steampunk-y "spark" based mad scientists of Foglio's Girl Genius. Thus, the eidolon would be a clockwork semi-organic beastie.
That gave me the setup for "recreating" the eidolon through entirely different evolutions at each level -- the mad scientist is rebuilding his servitor creation! Moreover, I'm thinking on making the celestial/fiendish summons that he pops out have brassclad/clockwork cosmetic looks as well -- not enough to actually change the stats that they have, but enough so that the summoner looks like some portal-opening mad scientist.
( "Hooray! ... I meant to do that!"
"How long...?"
"In my experience, a strong spark will take about two hours to truly warp the laws of nature." )
Great to hear you liked it (author of mod here). Any issues come up in game play with the mod?I found a Poly summoner online that was a varient to the summoner. allowed the summoner to have multiple types of eidolons. They could only have out one at a time though, They might of eventually gotten the ability to use two at high levels.
at 20th level they got a total of six eidolons...
does anybody predict what I am about to say?
One of my PC's in my gaming world wanted to play... thats right... a pokemon trainer...
it didnt violate the rules and I was a fan of the old gameboy games so sure why the hell not, great way to play test...
wasnt that bad, the person had a lot of fun looking for the "stones of power" from the other "Eidolon Masters" in the world.... hilarious
Well first off thanks man it made my players day!
I am not sure if that was how it was intended to be used but I am glad you approve.
I enjoyed it, and the player had a blast. Really brought in more versatility and allowed her to have a versatile companion for battles.
Definitely didn't effect mechanics alot (This player is a Powergamer in her spell use though not battle optimization, so to be fair she definitely wasn't looking in that department to "break the game" so to speak, but I gave it a good read before and I am usually a good eye, looked right as rain)
Quite entertaining actually.
kudos sir, kudos.
Where might this mod be found? I am intrigued.
As for summoner concepts: A guy/girl with a guardian angel, a demonologist out to regain his soul, an artist who pulls ideas made real out of the plane of dreams and adventures to seek inspiration, somebody who has no idea how his powers work or what his summoned creatures are "I just call and they come. I don't know why!" or a megalomaniac guy who traps creatures from across the planes and forces them into service.
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Ooh, I like that Aasimar / Tiefling idea, summoning their ancestor!
Similarly, you could have an Elven, Orcish, (Vudran) Human or Gnomish Summoner who believes in reincarnation, and maintains that their animal-shaped Eidolon is their 'former self' from a previous life, such as a raging boar (for an orc) or a mighty stag (for an elf) or a pouncing tiger (for a Vudrani).
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I found a Poly summoner online that was a varient to the summoner. allowed the summoner to have multiple types of eidolons. They could only have out one at a time though, They might of eventually gotten the ability to use two at high levels.
at 20th level they got a total of six eidolons...
does anybody predict what I am about to say?
One of my PC's in my gaming world wanted to play... thats right... a pokemon trainer...
it didnt violate the rules and I was a fan of the old gameboy games so sure why the hell not, great way to play test...
wasnt that bad, the person had a lot of fun looking for the "stones of power" from the other "Eidolon Masters" in the world.... hilarious
I've been joking with my group about an 'All-Summoner' game.
See, I have a lot of Pokemon figs from when I was dating a girl who loved them (I admit it, Pikachu is a cute little bugger...).Several of them have actually responded positively. Perhaps we will do it... Ha
-Uriel
Where might this mod be found? I am intrigued.
As for summoner concepts: A guy/girl with a guardian angel, a demonologist out to regain his soul, an artist who pulls ideas made real out of the plane of dreams and adventures to seek inspiration, somebody who has no idea how his powers work or what his summoned creatures are "I just call and they come. I don't know why!" or a megalomaniac guy who traps creatures from across the planes and forces them into service.
LOL,
If it's mine (I suspect it is), it's here at PathfinderDB, along with some other options for the summoner.I have another rewrite of the class that turns them into either an Eidelon Master, or a Summon Master, based on decisions at 1st level, however, I've been refraining from posting it until Paizo puts the AGP up on the PRD site. Of course, it's beginning to look like they will never get around to that. So I may just go ahead and tell the PathfinderDB guy to put it up, he's been sitting on it for 2-3 months now.
KilroySummoner, Im afraid I don not know what a Trogdor is.
[Threadjack] Allow me to educate [/Threadjack]
I found a Poly summoner online that was a varient to the summoner. allowed the summoner to have multiple types of eidolons. They could only have out one at a time though, They might of eventually gotten the ability to use two at high levels.
at 20th level they got a total of six eidolons...
does anybody predict what I am about to say?
One of my PC's in my gaming world wanted to play... thats right... a pokemon trainer...
it didnt violate the rules and I was a fan of the old gameboy games so sure why the hell not, great way to play test...
wasnt that bad, the person had a lot of fun looking for the "stones of power" from the other "Eidolon Masters" in the world.... hilarious
I've been joking with my group about an 'All-Summoner' game.
See, I have a lot of Pokemon figs from when I was dating a girl who loved them (I admit it, Pikachu is a cute little bugger...).Several of them have actually responded positively. Perhaps we will do it... Ha
-Uriel
It says Eidolons are from another plane of existence. just make that your players plane of existence :) have them roam everywhere... you can only get another Eidolon by defeating it in battle once your high enough level.
Also makes monster creation self explanatory. Just make a new eidolon or whatever nonesense everytime they go into the wild.
You could still keep all the old classes (why not it wont unbalance the game from what I have played with one) for the players that want them.
Make it a hardcore world though... pokemon could have been cool if it wasnt a cartoon and all the people in it werent sugarcoated perfection people.
let me know how it goes. I am curious to see if it will play out well.
And by hardcore, we mean really hardcore. Like Scythers cutting people in half, charizard's flame-broiling people and eating them, the list goes on.I found a Poly summoner online that was a varient to the summoner. allowed the summoner to have multiple types of eidolons. They could only have out one at a time though, They might of eventually gotten the ability to use two at high levels.
at 20th level they got a total of six eidolons...
does anybody predict what I am about to say?
One of my PC's in my gaming world wanted to play... thats right... a pokemon trainer...
it didnt violate the rules and I was a fan of the old gameboy games so sure why the hell not, great way to play test...
wasnt that bad, the person had a lot of fun looking for the "stones of power" from the other "Eidolon Masters" in the world.... hilarious
I've been joking with my group about an 'All-Summoner' game.
See, I have a lot of Pokemon figs from when I was dating a girl who loved them (I admit it, Pikachu is a cute little bugger...).Several of them have actually responded positively. Perhaps we will do it... Ha
-Uriel
It says Eidolons are from another plane of existence. just make that your players plane of existence :) have them roam everywhere... you can only get another Eidolon by defeating it in battle once your high enough level.
Also makes monster creation self explanatory. Just make a new eidolon or whatever nonesense everytime they go into the wild.
You could still keep all the old classes (why not it wont unbalance the game from what I have played with one) for the players that want them.
Make it a hardcore world though... pokemon could have been cool if it wasnt a cartoon and all the people in it werent sugarcoated perfection people.
let me know how it goes. I am curious to see if it will play out well.
yes
+1
I'm gonna try to make this quick, since I'm at work and I get off in five minutes.
I had a hilarious idea I'd love to try out. My character would be a pirate- a total Jack-Sparrow-at-the-beginning-of-Pirates-of-the-Carribean pirate. His crew mutinied, and he was left stranded on a desert island. Not being a religious man, bu being completely out of options, he uses one of his last breaths to whisper a prayer to Besmara, the Pirate queen (a goddess from Pathfinder) to grant him a ship from the bowels of hell that he can use to ake revenge on his old crew and plunder some booty. To his amazement, she does- a fiery cack opens up in the ground, and out comes a demonic-looking pirate ship... that's only four feet long. It glides along through the ground (leaving a small snake-like path in its wake), and has tiny little cannons that can only fire about ten feet or so. Being so small, it can carry him (he'd have to stand on it awkwardly, since it's a perfect miniature ship meant for appropriately-sized miniature pirates), but not effectively enough to be ridden in combat (or even any faster than his normal walking speed). As he travels, as he gains levels, it eventually gets bigger and more well-equipped, but even at its biggest (huge size), it's still a bit too small to be a real ship, but whatever.
Basically, I'd use the serpentine base form, and describe it as a ship rather than a snake. Its bite attack is described as a short-range cannon attack (and it would follow all rules for a melee attack with reach), and as it got to higher levels, and possibly got multiple attacks, those attacks would either be described as additional cannon blasts, or maybe even tiny demonic pirates that jump off and attack. Eventually, it may even get the ability to swim through land (i.e., burrow), and/or fly.
Let me know what you think! Whether any of you care about it, I love this idea.
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Though this is slowly getting the original question off-topic, the mere mention of Pokemon brought some things to mind. Namely, questions I asked a few months back when my wife was obsessed with the newest versions to come out. Most of them are echoed in the following article:
Unanswered Questions of Pokemon
Moving back on-topic, however, I know someone that altered the Eidolon to be a type of Construct rather than a magical creature. I went searching around to see if anyone else came up with any ideas like this, which led me back to Pathfinder DB, a great resource for homebrew material. Here's the link as well:
The site in its entirety is a great site that I use material from often.
The other night I conceived of "Scrub", an 8 year old kitchen slave owned by a would-be summoner with a cha of 10 who just can't make it work. Scrub turns out to be a natural talent and creates his eidolon "Mechastopheles" out of pots and pans. Over the course of levels, scrub will grow to be a heroic young man, and Mechastopheles becomes an Escaflowne-like suit of steampunk armor.
More than a little adolescent wish-fulfillment on my part. :)
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I have a killer summoner concept, from ages long past.
We're level 14 now, and the entire concept has come to fruition - I made Dio Brando and his Stand, from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. We've been doing all sorts of really cool things, and through flavor alone, he has 4? 5? slam attacks for his rapid-fire punches. Meanwhile, Dio himself has just purchased his staff of time-stop. I believe it's time to say the magic command word -
ZA WARUDO! >:D
Make it a hardcore world though... pokemon could have been cool if it wasnt a cartoon and all the people in it werent sugarcoated perfection people.Sounds like you'd love the Pokemon manga. The hero nearly gets eaten by a Victreebel. He's named "Red", but I can't remember the manga name >_<.
Red is a bad ass.
I have a theory about the old gameboy games.. its a conspiracy theory...
yeah I know..
check the name..
its the old Gary's raticate story haha, if you enjoyed the games it might get you a laugh/get you thinking depending on how you view it.
My thoughts were it was made into a childrens game because it became so popular among children.. originally it was intended for mature audiences. After all the games came long before the show, and the first two games the only thing kinda timid about them, and only sometimes, was the dialogue (which is the easiest thing to change in program writing)
thread jack done/.
A kid from Numeria ran across a mechanical alien parasite while playing that grafted to his forehead (emitting a glowing symbol). Once he matured, the graft produced a tiny machine that began eating metal and growing into a large worm type creature over time. All of his spells and supernatural abilities stem from the graft, and I want to play him as if he doesn't understand what is going on. He is just a regular guy who gets headaches and weird things happen.
It might have had a little inspiration from FLCL.
A caller of angels.
And I don't mean those modern depictions of angels, men or women (or something between) with wings and long blond hair, or little fat kids with a bow and heart-shaped arrows.
I mean the old descriptions, the weird stuff. Thrones, for example, were said to be shaped like wheels-within-wheels, covered with eyes. Cherubim weren't the chubby little babies originally, but had four faces (man, ox, lion, griffon)
Add an extra dose of totally crazy, maybe taken from the things Bayonetta fights in the game of the same name.
The fun part is that the class allows you to completely change the way your Eidolon looks and works with each level-up, so you can have a "different" angel every time, representing the angelic hierarchy (since the classic Christian hierarchy has 9 levels, you'll have to stick to each hierarchy tier for 2-3 levels).
You'd start with simple angels for a couple of levels, and then progress to archangels, principalities, powers, virtues, dominions, thrones, cherubim and finally seraphim.
Make it a hardcore world though... pokemon could have been cool if it wasnt a cartoon and all the people in it werent sugarcoated perfection people.Sounds like you'd love the Pokemon manga. The hero nearly gets eaten by a Victreebel. He's named "Red", but I can't remember the manga name >_<.Red is a bad ass.
I have a theory about the old gameboy games.. its a conspiracy theory...
yeah I know..
check the name..
its the old Gary's raticate story haha, if you enjoyed the games it might get you a laugh/get you thinking depending on how you view it.
My thoughts were it was made into a childrens game because it became so popular among children.. originally it was intended for mature audiences. After all the games came long before the show, and the first two games the only thing kinda timid about them, and only sometimes, was the dialogue (which is the easiest thing to change in program writing)
thread jack done/.
But the games came before the manga.
Yeah that is my point. the games are what had the brutal story, it was modified slightly for children after the originals came out because it was so popular for children.
Atleast I think it could be possible that that is what happened.
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I had an idea for a very psycho-analytical gnome who viewed it all very technically and who viewed his eidolon as a manifestation of his id, so that he was the representation of a superego and between them, they had the ego. So the summoner was excessively perfectionistic and stuffy and the eidolon was wild and barely controlled chaos.
I had an idea for a very psycho-analytical gnome who viewed it all very technically and who viewed his eidolon as a manifestation of his id, so that he was the representation of a superego and between them, they had the ego. So the summoner was excessively perfectionistic and stuffy and the eidolon was wild and barely controlled chaos.
YOUR EIDOLON WAS TYLER DURDEN!
I had an idea for a very psycho-analytical gnome who viewed it all very technically and who viewed his eidolon as a manifestation of his id, so that he was the representation of a superego and between them, they had the ego. So the summoner was excessively perfectionistic and stuffy and the eidolon was wild and barely controlled chaos.YOUR EIDOLON WAS TYLER DURDEN!
My eidolon fought Gandhi. ; )
My favorite character is a gray dwarf summoner and his mountain rock monster who has large khyber shards sticking out his back & corrosive acid breath. In eberron Khyber shards are pieces from the body of the Black Dragon God of the Underworld.Dwarves have a great bond with mountains & the underworld so I gave him a sort of elemental,ancient beast guardian of the gray dwarves. I used the miniature Mulg the Ancient from Hordes & a reaper blood gnome priest for the dwarf just added a beard.They look like a Mad Max Master/Blaster
At sometime, somebody, somewhere suggested that Dr. Frankenstein and his monster would be a great summoner concept.
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My summoner made a pact with an inhabitant of the Dimension of Dreams. It guards him while he's awake and gets to experience things in the waking world. When he's asleep, he has to help it with tasks it needs to do in the dream realm.
Due to the nature of the pact, the eidolon has to stay with the summoner's mind, which is why it always disappears when the summoner is unconscious. They're both in dreamland.
My summoner made a pact with an inhabitant of the Dimension of Dreams. It guards him while he's awake and gets to experience things in the waking world. When he's asleep, he has to help it with tasks it needs to do in the dream realm.
Due to the nature of the pact, the eidolon has to stay with the summoner's mind, which is why it always disappears when the summoner is unconscious. They're both in dreamland.
Very nicely done I like the concept, something a DM can build on
At sometime, somebody, somewhere suggested that Dr. Frankenstein and his monster would be a great summoner concept.
Yeah, in the Mad Scientist thread. I suggested a patchwork or clockwork Eidolon that had to be shocked into life every morning.
A caller of angels.
I'm working on a similar concept, at the moment: A half-elf orphan raised by a church, but unsuited for the priesthood (8 Wis) makes a pact with the church's deity to summon ascociated outsiders (i.e., extraplanar creatures via summon monster); the eidolon is the "enforcer/guide" of the pact as well as the summoner's companion/helper. Biped eidolon with Improved Natural Armor and Weapon Training probably (starting with a morning star and javelins to take advantage of the biped's 16 Str; Power Attack as the starting feat), possibly improving to martial/selected exotic weapons and/or Two-/Multi-Weapon Fighting, depending on the "base" outsider type (angel, archon, avoral, etc.). A CE summoner who wanted a "marilith" eidolon could start with the serpentine base form and work up to all twelve arms.
Another variation would be the myriad of examples from "Jo-Jo's Bizarre Adventure" (anime about Stands) and Scryed (anime), both of which have been compared to using Astral Construct.
Oh HELL yeah... I'd love to be able to shout "the WORLD-o!" at the table, but I think my other players might dice-bag me into submission.
I put together a Pseudo-dragon Summoner whose Eidolon looked like a Beefeater version of the Heavy from Team Fortress 2. He was the sort of idealized form of the big, tough, dumb warrior that the little pseudodragon assumed that people would expect to see. Plus, being must, the actual PC was only able to speak through the eidolon.
Haven't had a chance to USE it yet, though.
Yes you can take Augment Summon feat and apply it to the Eidelon.
But only if you use the Summon Eidelon spell, not to the ritual that summons the Eidelon.