# Applying improved natural attack feat to odd damage dice

### Rules Questions

Hi All,

The improved natural attack does a pretty good covering most damage dice increases, but leaves out things like 2d4, 2d10.

So I've made the assumption that if you have something like 2d10, then 1d10 increase is 2d8, so multiple this by 2 to give 4d8.

Have I made a correct assumption there? Thoughts?

Thanks all

It should use the same progression as for weapons (core rules p. 145). 2d4 increased by one size category becomes 2d6, 2d10 increased by a step becomes 4d8.

Above 2d10, I agree you'd break up the multiple dice into the largest value that appears on the table and apply the listed conversion to each subset, so 2d12 increased by a step becomes 6d6, then 6d6 increased by a size category -> 3 x 2d6 -> 3 x 3d6 -> 9d6.

Since 1d6 gives 1d8, 3d6 gives 3d8 (by the way, 2d6 should give 2d8, not 3d6).
Since 1d8 gives 2d6, 3d8 gives 6d6.
Since 2d8 gives 3d8 (instead of 4d6), 4d8 gives 6d8.
Now come the tricky parts...
6d6 can be thought of as 2x3d6 or 3x2d6. In the first case, the increased damage is 6d8 (2x3d8). In the second, it's 9d6 (3x3d6). Not exactly the same.
Raised again, these two values become 9d8 and 12d6.
This is coherent with this: 6d8 can give either 9d8 or 12d6.
And now, after a last raise, these two become the vaunted 12d8.
Etc. etc.

These come from my need to compute a monk damage with my spreadsheet.
Then... I stumbled upon a message from the designers of the universe (read either "gods" or "James&Jason") which specifically forbade monks from taking INA.
So, my next question is: since you asked about INA applied to 2d10, were you thinking of the monk?

Louis IX wrote:
Since 1d6 gives 1d8, 3d6 gives 3d8 (by the way, 2d6 should give 2d8, not 3d6).

I went with the highest available conversion on the table each time. 2d6 has an entry, so I used that entry. I broke up 6d6 into 3 x 2d6 in preference to 6 x 1d6 (there is no entry for 3d6).

Louis IX wrote:
Then... I stumbled upon a message from the designers of the universe (read either "gods" or "James&Jason") which specifically forbade monks from taking INA.

Yup, the feat even says as much.

prd wrote:
Choose one of the creature's natural attack forms (not an unarmed strike)

Monk could still take it for something like a bite attack or claws, but can't use it for unarmed strikes.