Whip-Type Weapons in Pathfinder


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


One of the things I liked about some of the materials for dnd 3.5 was the whip blade, a spiked whip with a knife on the end. many other games have stats for these, but I cannot see it in the core rulebook other than the normal whip.

What would be the stats for a rope-dart or knife-whip? (example: Ivy's weapon from soul caliber)


If you follow this excellent link Archives of Nethys

I think you'll find several weapons -- that are from pathfinder setting books by paizo -- that cover what you want.

Mainly look at the urumi, and the scorpion whip.

Have fun.


Abraham spalding wrote:

If you follow this excellent link Archives of Nethys

I think you'll find several weapons -- that are from pathfinder setting books by paizo -- that cover what you want.

Mainly look at the urumi, and the scorpion whip.

Have fun.

Thanks!

Dark Archive

i still say it is garbage that paizo took reach off the spiked chain and claimed it had too much going for it.

ok, then make a new weapon.

the spike chain was the only weapon that let people attack into both reach and adjacent squares. That is what made it so popular. now there is nothing for it. I would have been happy to have a weapon that attacked both close and far with nothing else and be happy to spend a feat. but no, you couldn't even make a new weapon to fill that concept.

don't waste my time with the spiked gauntlet and a reach weapon. i would have to throw away twice as much money enchanting both of them.

The Exchange

Raymond Lambert wrote:

i still say it is garbage that paizo took reach off the spiked chain and claimed it had too much going for it.

ok, then make a new weapon.

the spike chain was the only weapon that let people attack into both reach and adjacent squares. That is what made it so popular. now there is nothing for it. I would have been happy to have a weapon that attacked both close and far with nothing else and be happy to spend a feat. but no, you couldn't even make a new weapon to fill that concept.

don't waste my time with the spiked gauntlet and a reach weapon. i would have to throw away twice as much money enchanting both of them.

They did... sort of. The dwarven dern dergar does that, you just have to spend a move action to switch between long and short range. I'd rather have less damage for the utility of both ranges at the same time myself, but at least the option's there (of course lunge does almost the same thing).


Meteor Hammer, I think, does what you want Raymond.


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Raymond Lambert wrote:

i still say it is garbage that paizo took reach off the spiked chain and claimed it had too much going for it.

ok, then make a new weapon.

the spike chain was the only weapon that let people attack into both reach and adjacent squares. That is what made it so popular. now there is nothing for it. I would have been happy to have a weapon that attacked both close and far with nothing else and be happy to spend a feat. but no, you couldn't even make a new weapon to fill that concept.

don't waste my time with the spiked gauntlet and a reach weapon. i would have to throw away twice as much money enchanting both of them.

Well I may have an option for you that may interest you for a replacement for the spiked chain, or at least a fun new toy. It's called the Aklys.

This is a simple weapon that can be found on the pfsrd (ie. the link in the preceding line). It is described as being a short club attached to a 20ft. cord, it is also described as having a grappling hook set into the club. It has the ability to trip, to be used as a thrown weapon (more on this latter), as a reach weapon, or even as a club in melee.

When being used as a thrown weapon the Aklys can be thrown 20 ft., or the the end of its cord without suffering any penalties. Now what's kinda cool about the Aklys is that after it is thrown the weilder can use a move action to snatch on its cord and thus retrieve the weapon.

This is pretty cool in my opinion. Your snazzy new weapon is a simple weapon (in other words you don't have to worry about weapon proficiencies barring you from using it), it does everything that the spiked chain did (including having the option to trip), and it can even double as a grappling hook (at least in any game that the DM isn't a fan of railroads). To top it all off it is a mere 5sp for the simplest version. If you like however, I would personally looking into latter on upgrading the weapon by making it out of special materials, maybe eventually adamantium.

Just an opinion. For the table stats on this weapon just hit the Weapon button at the top of the page.


Does the scorpion whip is basically a lethal whip, or is it a 10-foot reach whip (instead of 15 feet) that deals lethal damage (instead of non-lethal) but does NOT provoke AoO when attacking ?


JiCi wrote:
Does the scorpion whip is basically a lethal whip, or is it a 10-foot reach whip (instead of 15 feet) that deals lethal damage (instead of non-lethal) but does NOT provoke AoO when attacking ?

From the descriptor it seems it's a whip in every way save for doing 1d4 lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses.


jakebacon wrote:
JiCi wrote:
Does the scorpion whip is basically a lethal whip, or is it a 10-foot reach whip (instead of 15 feet) that deals lethal damage (instead of non-lethal) but does NOT provoke AoO when attacking ?
From the descriptor it seems it's a whip in every way save for doing 1d4 lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses.

I see... so you STILL get AoO when attacking with that... good gracious, isn't there a feat somewhere that allow you to NOT provoke AoO when using a whip ? I don't know about you but that would be REALLY useful.

Dark Archive

thanks all for the imput. i have found more myself. another thread concearning another item pointed out there is an erratta for the adventurers armory.

it kind of helps the meteor hammer. Still not nearly as useful as the 3.5 spiked chain but better than anything else i have seen in PF so far(actually the urumi and bladed scarf from the campaign setting were very good, maybe better then the 3.5 sc but the new printing in the adventurers amromry takes reach away from both of them). I do like the MH's nice option for the double weapon style. u can find it for free on the site page selling the product.

as for the aklys, you are wrong on several points:
this is an e4xotic weapon
no where does it indecate reach, that is not the same as throwing
5 gold, not silver
i'm sure someone would think that extra _thrown_ range is worth it but even if you hit from afar, you never get an aoo on their way in to u or past u from afar

i looked over the scorpion whip and it was a terrible job editing. it says nothing about being able to attack both adjacent and with reach. nor does it write about the 15' reach of a whip that does threaten(meaning no attack of opportunity). some may think you can use it as a whip cause of the comment about the whip, but frankly, i see too many people who are incaperbal of understanding the rules and making the right guess when a judgement has to be made. it should have clearly stated all of its functions, without such, one can point to the lack thereof and how all the other such weapons write it right into their descriptions.

i would love to hear more about the the dwarven dern dergar. Where is it from? an actual Paizo product or a 3rd party that over powers to temp people to blind to see the blatent power creep? is it a current product, post core rulebook or one from the 3.5 era?

i realise that i failed to make clear in my first post that what i love so much about the sc was how u might get aoo from reach(u threaten soo many more squares) but don't have the same terrible spacing problems so common of all the other reach weapons that cannot hit adjacent. no u don't have to hope u can take a step back(in a small dungheon). u can strike right there if you want. no you don't have to worry about cover(cause reach is treated like a raged weapon when determining cover) u can strike right in front of him. this reach advantage works really nice with combat reflexes. did y'all know cr not only grants more aoo per round but also allows aoo while u r still flatfooted?

thanks for prompting me to design one myself, here is the 1st draft:
exotic 2-handed
25gold
damage = d6(s)d8(m)2d6(l)
critx2
range -
weight = 10
type = s or b (1 type for each end)
special = 5'adjacent/10'reach

maybe work somthing in where if you roll 50/50%, ur enermy can't tell what end you are using but neither can you choose which damage type. if you want to pick which end(damage b or s) ur enermy gets a sense motive/perception check against your cmd, if succesful, they add +2 dodge to their ac.

maybe work in some sort of swift action (at any time of your turn) to go to/from adjacent/reach style. none of this nonsense of having to be at the begining of your turn _only_ as the adventurers armory mh or as a move action(no full attack). this is for those who just want to complain that everything is too damn powerful and broken(becasue they don't design & play their pcs well enough to survive unless they are given more than 20 point buy, powerful races(level adjustment types), free levels worth of hps and feats & at least twice as much gp as they books suggest they should have at each level.


JiCi wrote:
jakebacon wrote:
JiCi wrote:
Does the scorpion whip is basically a lethal whip, or is it a 10-foot reach whip (instead of 15 feet) that deals lethal damage (instead of non-lethal) but does NOT provoke AoO when attacking ?
From the descriptor it seems it's a whip in every way save for doing 1d4 lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses.
I see... so you STILL get AoO when attacking with that... good gracious, isn't there a feat somewhere that allow you to NOT provoke AoO when using a whip ? I don't know about you but that would be REALLY useful.

Well in the supergenius guide to Martial Archtypes there is the Blacksnake archtype which specializes in using whips. If you use that you dont provoke. That is the only option i know of that prevents the AoO, and I am using it for a current character.


Raymond Lambert wrote:
i looked over the scorpion whip and it was a terrible job editing. it says nothing about being able to attack both adjacent and with reach. nor does it write about the 15' reach of a whip that does threaten(meaning no attack of opportunity). some may think you can use it as a whip cause of the comment about the whip, but frankly, i see too many people who are incaperbal of understanding the rules and making the right guess when a judgement has to be made. it should have clearly stated all of its functions, without such, one can point to the lack thereof and how all the other such weapons write it right into their descriptions.

As much as you're allowed to insinuate that myself and others don't know what we're talking about, I'd like you to read the description of the scorpion whip again.

Scorpion Whip wrote:
This whip has a series of razorsharp blades and fangs inset along its tip. It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip.

Clearly it's a variation on the standard whip. It specifically mentions what it does differently than a standard whip, i.e. dealing lethal damage and damaging creatures with armor bonuses. It also shares a proficiency with the standard whip. Would it be easier if it had a name like "lethal whip" instead of something more flavorful like "scorpion whip"?

It sounds like you just want a single weapon that does it all. No need to create an entirely new weapon to achieve that. If you're willing to do that, then you as a GM (or working with your GM if you're a player), should just houserule the spiked chain back to having reach. Problem solved.


If you dont mind Super Genious games there is a sweet martial archetype for a whip/cloak user.

Its called like the Black Snake... something or another.

It gets lethal damage, some awesome abilities, and a cool name (the most important part)

just incase anyone that reads this thread gets interested.


Midnightoker wrote:

If you dont mind Super Genious games there is a sweet martial archetype for a whip/cloak user.

Its called like the Black Snake... something or another.

It gets lethal damage, some awesome abilities, and a cool name (the most important part)

just incase anyone that reads this thread gets interested.

Ok, I have to ask. What's the name of their martial archtypes book? I'm getting their archer archtypes book, and I totally want more lol.


kyrt-ryder wrote:
Midnightoker wrote:

If you dont mind Super Genious games there is a sweet martial archetype for a whip/cloak user.

Its called like the Black Snake... something or another.

It gets lethal damage, some awesome abilities, and a cool name (the most important part)

just incase anyone that reads this thread gets interested.

Ok, I have to ask. What's the name of their martial archtypes book? I'm getting their archer archtypes book, and I totally want more lol.

I know they kick ass right!

I thought it was just called The genious guide to archer archetypes?


Midnightoker wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
Midnightoker wrote:

If you dont mind Super Genious games there is a sweet martial archetype for a whip/cloak user.

Its called like the Black Snake... something or another.

It gets lethal damage, some awesome abilities, and a cool name (the most important part)

just incase anyone that reads this thread gets interested.

Ok, I have to ask. What's the name of their martial archtypes book? I'm getting their archer archtypes book, and I totally want more lol.

I know they kick ass right!

I thought it was just called The genious guide to archer archetypes?

That sounds right. Although I don't think there's an archtype for cloak+whip in the ARCHER archtype book is there? I was asking for the name of the Martial Archtypes (the one with the cloak and whip style.)


kyrt-ryder wrote:
Midnightoker wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
Midnightoker wrote:

If you dont mind Super Genious games there is a sweet martial archetype for a whip/cloak user.

Its called like the Black Snake... something or another.

It gets lethal damage, some awesome abilities, and a cool name (the most important part)

just incase anyone that reads this thread gets interested.

Ok, I have to ask. What's the name of their martial archtypes book? I'm getting their archer archtypes book, and I totally want more lol.

I know they kick ass right!

I thought it was just called The genious guide to archer archetypes?

That sounds right. Although I don't think there's an archtype for cloak+whip in the ARCHER archtype book is there? I was asking for the name of the Martial Archtypes (the one with the cloak and whip style.)

Oh my bad the martial one is called the same thing just replace archer with martial haha

also it has some aragorn fanboy with blonde hair on the front. cant miss it haha

Liberty's Edge

Just want to say. Yes Paizo did a feat tree for whips in Ultimate Combat. The feat to deal lethal damage and provoke no AoO is called Whip Mastery. To take it you need Weapon Focus (Whip) and a BAB +2

The next one after that is called is called Improved Whip Mastery and it allows you to threaten as well you can grab small or tiny objects with your whip.

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