2 handed weapons + power attack = crazy math?

[Vaahama]

Before throwing that horror at my players i just want to make sure it's not overpowered by mistake.

CR6 troll (barbarian 1 troll)
BaB = +5
Strenght = 21 (+5)
Large greatsword = 3D6
Feat = power attack
rage = +4 strenght (+2hit/+2 dmg)

normal mele would be: +10 to hit/ 3d6+7 (2 handed)
under rage that would give me: +12 to hit/ 3d6+10 (2 handed)

power attack gives -1/+2 base, since troll is 7HD that goes up to -2/+4... so far so good.
Since its a 2 handheld weapon that power attack bonus goes up to -2/+6

so that "power attacking" 2 handed greatsword weilding freak would have a swing of: +8 to hit/3d6+13 dmg.
while raging that would go even higher to +10 hit/ 3D6+16

Am i missing something?

[MisterSlanky]

Your math looks right. Power attack is pretty awesome for 2-handed users isn't it?

I've seen the same thing on a raging, bull's-strength,enlarged barbarian with a base strength of 18, power attack, and a headband of strength +2. (+4 for base strength, +1 for the headband, +1 for size, +2 for raging, +2 for bull's strength, +5 for 2-handed 1.5 modifier, and +6 for power attacking = 2D6+21 at level 5.

[Bruno Kristensen]

Vaahama wrote:

Before throwing that horror at my players i just want to make sure it's not overpowered by mistake.

CR6 troll (barbarian 1 troll)
BaB = +5
Strenght = 21 (+5)
Large greatsword = 3D6
Feat = power attack

normal mele would be: +10 to hit/ 3d6+7 (2 handed)

power attack gives -1/+2 base, since troll is 7HD that goes up to -2/+4... so far so good.

Since its a 2 hand held weapon that power attack bonus goes up to -2/+6

so at final that "power attacking" 2 handed greatsword weilding freak would have a swing of: +8 to hit/ 3d6+13 dmg.

Am i missing something?

-1 Size penalty to hit.

Also, Power Attack is no tied to HDs, but to BAB, but other than that, it looks fine.

It may seem like a lot, but most 6th level fighters will easily outdamage it.

You are looking at an average damage of 23.5 per round, while a 6th-level fighter can easily deal 2d6+16, wich is 23 points, average...and unlike the troll, the fighter gets two attacks on a full attack.

[Kalyth]

MisterSlanky wrote:

Your math looks right. Power attack is pretty awesome for 2-handed users isn't it?

I've seen the same thing on a raging, bull's-strength,enlarged barbarian with a base strength of 18, power attack, and a headband of strength +2. (+4 for base strength, +1 for the headband, +1 for size, +2 for raging, +2 for bull's strength, +5 for 2-handed 1.5 modifier, and +6 for power attacking = 2D6+21 at level 5.

Headband of Strength shouldn't really stack with Bull Strength, unless its granting a bonus other than enhancement.

[Matrixryu]

MisterSlanky wrote:

Your math looks right. Power attack is pretty awesome for 2-handed users isn't it?

I've seen the same thing on a raging, bull's-strength,enlarged barbarian with a base strength of 18, power attack, and a headband of strength +2. (+4 for base strength, +1 for the headband, +1 for size, +2 for raging, +2 for bull's strength, +5 for 2-handed 1.5 modifier, and +6 for power attacking = 2D6+21 at level 5.

Actually, I don't think the bull's strength and headband of strength would stack since they're enhancement bonuses, but that's still very nasty XD

Edit: gah, ninjaed ;)

[Alexander Kilcoyne]

Heh... You should see the monstrosities i'm throwing at Bruno and co. in chapter 2 of Kingmaker...

But actually, your math is off.

In a rage, the trolls strength is 24, for a modifier of +7. Thus he is attacking at...

BAB +5 (my estimation, 6HD of medium BAB and 1 Barbarian Level of full BAB= +5)

+7 strength.

-1 size.

-2 power attack.

For a total of +9 to hit when raging and power attacking, and +11 when just raging.

As for damage, +7 strength mod x1.5= +10, then +6 from power attack= +16, you have that part right.

[Dire Mongoose]

For curiousity's sake, you might want to see what the numbers look like for the troll fighting unarmed -- Rend is pretty scary at that level.

[ericthecleric]

Yes, you’re missing the -1 attack (and -1 AC) penalties due to Large size.

The troll would still get a bite, BTW, so his attack line should look like:
Melee two-handed sword +9 (3d6+7) and bite +4 (1d8+2)
Melee (with Power Attack) two-handed sword +7 (3d6+13) and bite +2 (1d8+6)

Plus, you’re forgetting to apply the elite ability array (+4, +4, +2, +2, +0, -2 in any order you wish), and the rage ability.
If the troll adds +4 to Str from the elite array and uses rage, that’s +8 Str total, which would make his attack lines as follows:

Melee two-handed sword +13 (3d6+13) and bite +8 (1d8+4)
Melee (with Power Attack) two-handed sword +11 (3d6+19) and bite +6 (1d8+8)

Alternatively (with +4 Str plus rage):
Melee bite +13 (1d8+9) and 2 claws +13 (1d6+9)
Melee (with Power Attack) bite +11 (1d8+15) and 2 claws +11 (1d6+15)

Edited: Ninja'd, plus to improve formatting!
(Note, looking at Power Attack I believe that it's bite and claws are "primary natural weapons"!)

[Vaahama]

Bruno Kristensen wrote:

-1 Size penalty to hit.

is the size mod not included in the creature base statistics?

Quote:

Also, Power Attack is no tied to HDs, but to BAB, but other than that, it looks fine.

Yeah my bad... but in the end it still gets to -2/+4 with a BaB +5.

[Vaahama]

Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:

Heh... You should see the monstrosities i'm throwing at Bruno and co. in chapter 2 of Kingmaker...

Yeah i know it could be worse but...

That CR6 is intended as a "hard encounter" fight VS an APL 4 (5 players) group. Plus i have beefed up the AC a bit by giving the troll a chainshirt. So the AC goes up from 16 to 20!

[MisterSlanky]

Matrixryu wrote:

MisterSlanky wrote:

Your math looks right. Power attack is pretty awesome for 2-handed users isn't it?

I've seen the same thing on a raging, bull's-strength,enlarged barbarian with a base strength of 18, power attack, and a headband of strength +2. (+4 for base strength, +1 for the headband, +1 for size, +2 for raging, +2 for bull's strength, +5 for 2-handed 1.5 modifier, and +6 for power attacking = 2D6+21 at level 5.

Actually, I don't think the bull's strength and headband of strength would stack since they're enhancement bonuses, but that's still very nasty XD

Edit: gah, ninjaed ;)

Good call, reduce that number by three. So really only 2d6+18 damage. ;-)

[Bruno Kristensen]

Vaahama wrote:

Bruno Kristensen wrote:

-1 Size penalty to hit.

is the size mod not included in the creature base statistics?

Quote:

Also, Power Attack is no tied to HDs, but to BAB, but other than that, it looks fine.

Yeah my bad... but in the end it still gets to -2/+4 with a BaB +5.

I'm not sure what you mean by "included in the creature base statistics".

With 6 HD and 1 level as Barbarian, the creature has a BAB of +5, as you said. The strenght of 20 gives it another +5 to hit, but size imposes -1...so it has +9 to hit, not +10 as you wrote in the first post.

As for the PA, it is -2/+6, unless it is weilding the greatsword one-handed (which is impossible, as it is a large greatsword).