I posted a similar thread a while-ago, but I thought a re-start would be nice.
I am looking for advice on feat and spell choices for my melee-caster that I am looking to replace my old Hex-Blade concept.
The concept uses TWF and has a large shield for an off hand weapon. Now I don't really want to go the distance for shield defensive use, so a simple imp. shield bash would be enough.
I don't plan on having this be a skills person, more of a combat person.
My GM and I are also open to the use of the Battle Sorcerer from the Unearthed Arcana, and being a charisma based caster could work for the intimidation aspect I am looking for.
On another subject, I always suspect that they will make a hexblade replacement, as a palidin/ranger type for the witch. But till then we are stuck with this.
Thank you
Are you a caster that can fighter ?
Are you a fighter that can cast ?
You realy need to focus on one to be good at. Becous after level 12 or so you will eather be able to hit the brod side of a barn. Or you will not land a single spell that alows a save.
I think he is going for a fighty-type that can also cast, as evidenced by focus on a Hexblade-type idea.
I think there are two really solid ways to go about this type of character: one that fits your desire to bash with a shield and is an okay caster, one that isn't really compatible with a shield but will get you much better casting and Hexes.
1) If you want to bash, play a Bard with the Arcane Duelist AFC from the APG.
You get Arcane Strike for free, which is very good. And can start as human with your two feats being TWF and Improved Shield Bash.
You will also get access to the heaviest armors by mid levels, which will make you tough while the scaling bonus from Arcane Strike gets your attack bonus closer to where it ought to be fighting front line. Arcane Strike benefits both weapons, a huge bump to TWF for free.
I suggest mostly focusing on TWF feats and picking Shield Slam and Shield Master when you qualify as they are both excellent. Power Attack and Cornugon Smash are tops if you are a good intimidator.
If Intimidation is in your future, perhaps a few (2-4) levels of Rogue should be applied and investigate the Shatter Defenses tree. Really, a die or two of Sneak Attack is great for anyone TWFing.
2) Just play a Witch and head into Eldritch Knight. You can eventually use Still Spell to both wear heavy armor AND take advantage of the Spell Crit ability. The downside to this is you will be basically playing a full caster at lower levels, and really can't shield-fight; the upside is that you will be playing a full caster at higher levels that can also fight pretty well.
AND you get to pick up a few hexes; good for flavor and what you originally wanted. I think Witch probably makes the best EK due to her spell list which still has lots of the best BFC/Debuff and has the best heals and some cleric buffs.
Thanks, good suggestions.
I am thinking about a 1 level dip into fighter, as the character is not lawful or evil, would love to get paladin or anti-paladin but that just wont work, plus ether my usual parties would kill such a character, or I would lose all the abilities I would want to keep due to the eventual alignment change. The extra feat is nice, and the +1 base attack bonus to my total mean I will get BaB +16 before epic.
Anyway, she is usually a solid C/N. Not as in true natural, but she has tendencies toward both sides depending on the moment.
P.S.
Anyway, I am looking at stats, and it is a nightmare still.
25pt buy.
You will also get access to the heaviest armors by mid levels, which will make you tough while the scaling bonus from Arcane Strike gets your attack bonus closer to where it ought to be fighting front line. Arcane Strike benefits both weapons, a huge bump to TWF for free.
Note that Arcane Strike adds a bonus to your damage, not attack bonus as suggested above.
I'm working on an Arcane Duelist myself, but I'm loathe to post details because I'm sure it's not an optimal build. I'm just planning on having fun with it. :)
Note that Shield Bash is a martial weapon. Shield Proficiency only teaches you how to use shields for defense. If you want to shield bash, you need proficiency in all martial weapons (which a pure bard lacks) or you must spend a feat to get Martial Weapon Proficiency (Ligh/Heavy Shield). If you get neither, you suffer a -4 penalty on all shield bashs.
Also note that heavy shields do not count as light weapons, so if you TWF with a normal weapon + heavy shield, you'll suffer -4 on both attacks. You can lower this penalty to -2 by either using a light main weapon (like a short sword or dagger) or a light shield. Personally, I'd go for the shield.
Anyway, if you just pick up a longsword and a heavy shield and run into battle swinging both, your bard will make all sword slashes at -4 and all shield bashes at -8. I guess I don't need to tell you that you won't hit much with a 3/4 BAB class and those penalties.
As for stats, I don't see much difficulty. Not with a 25 pt buy, anyway. I'd go for something like:
Str 15
Dex 15
Con 13
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 14
I'm just going to assume that you play some race with a variable stat bonus. Use it to raise your Str to 17 and you're pretty much set. You even have the inteligence to get Combat Experise and combat maneuver feats (tripping strike sounds good with a rapier!).
Note that Shield Bash is a martial weapon. Shield Proficiency only teaches you how to use shields for defense. If you want to shield bash, you need proficiency in all martial weapons (which a pure bard lacks) or you must spend a feat to get Martial Weapon Proficiency (Ligh/Heavy Shield). If you get neither, you suffer a -4 penalty on all shield bashs.
Also note that heavy shields do not count as light weapons, so if you TWF with a normal weapon + heavy shield, you'll suffer -4 on both attacks. You can lower this penalty to -2 by either using a light main weapon (like a short sword or dagger) or a light shield. Personally, I'd go for the shield.
Anyway, if you just pick up a longsword and a heavy shield and run into battle swinging both, your bard will make all sword slashes at -4 and all shield bashes at -8. I guess I don't need to tell you that you won't hit much with a 3/4 BAB class and those penalties.
As for stats, I don't see much difficulty. Not with a 25 pt buy, anyway. I'd go for something like:
Str 15
Dex 15
Con 13
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 14I'm just going to assume that you play some race with a variable stat bonus. Use it to raise your Str to 17 and you're pretty much set. You even have the inteligence to get Combat Experise and combat maneuver feats (tripping strike sounds good with a rapier!).
I am thinking that I will use a sun blade as soon as I can, GM allowing, otherwise I will use a light sword. Plus I am going to a 1 level dip into fighter. It really gets you too many good feat I want, martial weapons, heavy armor, etc. and a bonus one to start, and eventually 4 attacks from base attack bonus. I do not plan on doing any combat maneuvers except bull rush at later levels.
I am thinking human here, and your opinion that a con of 13 is an alright choice about settles what I plan on doing, thanks.
|
Have you considered Dragon Disciple as a way to help your damage and strength out a bit? If you take the +2 caster level trait and go Fighter 1/Bard 15/Dragon Disciple 4 you'll wind up with +4 strength, +2 natural armor, a bite that does pretty decent damage, and a bonus feat from a decent list (Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, or Toughness are all decent).
On top of that you get a d12 HD for 4 levels.
It does require that you give up casting in heavy armor, but that could be fixed by wearing mithril. You already have proficiency from your level of fighter.
You do lose 1 level worth of spells known and spells per day, but not the caster level if you take the trait. Lastly, you lose Inspire Courage +4, and Bladethirst +5, but the strength bonus makes up for it.
Have you considered Dragon Disciple as a way to help your damage and strength out a bit? If you take the +2 caster level trait and go Fighter 1/Bard 15/Dragon Disciple 4 you'll wind up with +4 strength, +2 natural armor, a bite that does pretty decent damage, and a bonus feat from a decent list (Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, or Toughness are all decent).
On top of that you get a d12 HD for 4 levels.
It does require that you give up casting in heavy armor, but that could be fixed by wearing mithril. You already have proficiency from your level of fighter.
You do lose 1 level worth of spells known and spells per day, but not the caster level if you take the trait. Lastly, you lose Inspire Courage +4, and Bladethirst +5, but the strength bonus makes up for it.
Doesn't fit, and I don't play this "Dragon Disciple" out of principle and spite.
Thanks for the suggestion, though, if it wasn't for my bias it would be a good idea.
I am always a fan of extremes so here is my builds, so this is what I came up with.
Fighter 2/Arcane Duelist 18
Str 15 +2 Human, +1 4th, +1 12th, +1 16th, +1 20th
Dex 16 +1 8th
Con 12
Int 7
Wis 10
Cha 16
H Imp. Shield Bash
F1 TWF
1 Double Slice
3 Weapon Focus
F2 Arcane Strike
5 Dazzling Display
7 Intimidating Prowess
9 Shield Slam
11 Imp. TWF
13 Two Weapon Rend
15 Shield Mastery
17 Power Attack
19 Improved Bull Rush
I have a bravery 1 I can trade off for something in a variant. I am up for suggestions.
|
|
Looks pretty solid if you ask me, except a couple of things. First, you get Arcane Strike as a bonus feat at 1st level of Arcane Duelist.
Arcane Strike: Arcane duelists gain Arcane Strike as a bonus feat at 1st level. This ability replaces bardic knowledge.
Since you've now got an extra feat...might I recommend Toughness? You always need more health, especially as a melee combatant with 12 constitution.
Alternatively to that, you could just do Fighter 1/Arcane Duelist 19, wind up with all of the feats listed in your post, and get an extra caster level and 6th level spell per day.
Looks pretty solid if you ask me, except a couple of things. First, you get Arcane Strike as a bonus feat at 1st level of Arcane Duelist.
Arcane Strike: Arcane duelists gain Arcane Strike as a bonus feat at 1st level. This ability replaces bardic knowledge.Since you've now got an extra feat...might I recommend Toughness? You always need more health, especially as a melee combatant with 12 constitution.
Alternatively to that, you could just do Fighter 1/Arcane Duelist 19, wind up with all of the feats listed in your post, and get an extra caster level and 6th level spell per day.
AH yes, very good point... I don't know which I would do. Both are good choices.
I think I am going with toughness, as you made a very good point about hit-points.
P.S. Hit points was the 2nd reason I chose another level in fighter.
P.P.S. This character is going to use a Klar. It does the most damage that any shield does, it does slashing damage, and is a LIGHT weapon! WOOT!
I would suggest using that second level of Fighter to pick up Shield Slam or Shield Mastery precisely on the level it is available to you as they are both very strong feats.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on Toughness, but you can find time to get it with one of your normal progression feats more than likely.
I am thinking that I will use a sun blade as soon as I can, GM allowing, otherwise I will use a light sword. Plus I am going to a 1 level dip into fighter. It really gets you too many good feat I want, martial weapons, heavy armor, etc. and a bonus one to start, and eventually 4 attacks from base attack bonus. I do not plan on doing any combat maneuvers except bull rush at later levels.
I am thinking human here, and your opinion that a con of 13 is an alright choice about settles what I plan on doing, thanks.
A 1 level dip into fight won't get you a BAB of 16, you'd still be 15 unless you take 4 levels of Fighter. You need to shift that level 17 +0 BAB off to level 21. Just going to with 1 level of fighter just moves that to level 18. So basically you still lose 5 BAB at levels 2, 6, 10, 14, and 18 leaving you at +15/+10/+5 at level 20.
Still a level 1 dip in fighter is still worth it for couple other bonus and leaves you open for 3 levels of EK if you want to go for that 16 BAB. With the magical knack trait you'd still be CL 20 in the end.
If you are going to take a level of fighter (any level at all) Arcane Duelist becomes an opt-out at level 10. Lemme explain:
Mass Bladethirst. Does not make your weapon go past +10 enchantment. Chances are, you will have a pretty awesome weapon by level 18, and so will all of your friends. So meh.
Bladethirst. See Mass Bladethirst above. This is slightly more handy through the low levels, but by the time you are higher level, you only need one or two bonus points out of it.
Bonus Feats. You lose penetrating strike and greater PS. So, are we losing a lot? A bit...sure, but honestly not that much, and your weapon can most likely gain the needed bonuses from Bladethrist to overcome DR. In fact, I believe a weapon with a +5 EB overcomes all DR anyway, so yay .. not that useful.
Arcane Armor. At level 10 you get medium armor proficiency and the ability to cast in medium armor with no ASF. Excellent. This is all you need. Mithril Full Plate counts as medium armor for ASF, meaning you can ignore it. So you don't need to go to level 16 to gain Heavy Armor Proficiency since you are getting it from fighter.
So, really, the only thing you need to advance is your spells, and maybe add some more feats in....That is what the Eldritch Knight was made for.
Arcane Duelist 10/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 9 is going to be the best build if you decide to hybridize AD with fighter. In fact, it is really the only way to go if you are going to hybridize with a fighter.
This is going to:
1) increase your hp
2) increase # of feats
3) increase # of feats available for you to take (like weapon specialization)
4) you will still be able to cast 6th level Bard spells (Take the Magical Knack trait to get your 2 lost caster levels back)
5) increase your BAB
6) increase # of feats available for you to take becuase of BAB
In other words...the goodies far exceed what you will be losing:
1) Sing as a move action instead of a swift
2) # of rounds you can sing for...which 24 + CHA rounds is a LONG time.
3) umm...is there a 3?
If you are going to take a level of fighter (any level at all) Arcane Duelist becomes an opt-out at level 10. Lemme explain:
Mass Bladethirst. Does not make your weapon go past +10 enchantment. Chances are, you will have a pretty awesome weapon by level 18, and so will all of your friends. So meh.
Bladethirst. See Mass Bladethirst above. This is slightly more handy through the low levels, but by the time you are higher level, you only need one or two bonus points out of it.
Bonus Feats. You lose penetrating strike and greater PS. So, are we losing a lot? A bit...sure, but honestly not that much, and your weapon can most likely gain the needed bonuses from Bladethrist to overcome DR. In fact, I believe a weapon with a +5 EB overcomes all DR anyway, so yay .. not that useful.
Arcane Armor. At level 10 you get medium armor proficiency and the ability to cast in medium armor with no ASF. Excellent. This is all you need. Mithril Full Plate counts as medium armor for ASF, meaning you can ignore it. So you don't need to go to level 16 to gain Heavy Armor Proficiency since you are getting it from fighter.
So, really, the only thing you need to advance is your spells, and maybe add some more feats in....That is what the Eldritch Knight was made for.
Arcane Duelist 10/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 9 is going to be the best build if you decide to hybridize AD with fighter. In fact, it is really the only way to go if you are going to hybridize with a fighter.
This is going to:
1) increase your hp
2) increase # of feats
3) increase # of feats available for you to take (like weapon specialization)
4) you will still be able to cast 6th level Bard spells (Take the Magical Knack trait to get your 2 lost caster levels back)
5) increase your BAB
6) increase # of feats available for you to take becuase of BABIn other words...the goodies far exceed what you will be losing:
1) Sing as a move action instead of a swift
2) # of rounds you can sing for...which 24 + CHA rounds is a LONG time....
Okay, interesting suggestion. I don't know which I will do... sigh. Those bonus feats are nice for the DR/- .
Don't waste the feats. If you have a +5 enhancement bonus on your weapon, you get through DR except the two types of damage not covered by your weapon.
So, the question for you is: spend two feats in get DR against the one or two damage types your weapon doesn't classify as or spend two feats getting something to help you control the field of battle...like say..critical feats?
Don't waste the feats. If you have a +5 enhancement bonus on your weapon, you get through DR except the two types of damage not covered by your weapon.
So, the question for you is: spend two feats in get DR against the one or two damage types your weapon doesn't classify as or spend two feats getting something to help you control the field of battle...like say..critical feats?
I would say Gang Up and Lunge instead of the critical feats -- things that you can actually use every round without loss of action for the use.
Don't waste the feats. If you have a +5 enhancement bonus on your weapon, you get through DR except the two types of damage not covered by your weapon.
So, the question for you is: spend two feats in get DR against the one or two damage types your weapon doesn't classify as or spend two feats getting something to help you control the field of battle...like say..critical feats?
That doesn't help with the untyped DR like the type a barbarian has.
Anyway. My feats are all set up if you check the spoiler above.
1) You are right, it doesn't help with DR/-, but then, you are paying 8 levels for the ability to do 5 damage, to enemies that have a specific type of mitigation that occurs rather rarely throughout the game. Now, if all you are fighting is Invulnerable Barbarians, then yes, those feats suddenly have great merit.
2) Abe - Great Choices! Those feats will definitely help shore up some of the weaknesses of going TWF with a medium progression BAB.
3) Arden - you are right, I forgot that ADs get inspire courage (been doing too many Sandman Bards) So this changes my advice...
Arcane Duelist 7/Fighter (Weapon Master) 1/Arcane Duelist 5/Fighter Weapon Master 1/Eldritch Knight 5/Fighter (Weapon Master) 1
BAB: +17
Fort: +10
Ref: +11
Will: +11
Caster Level: 16 (You still get 6th level spells, just not alot of them)
Bardic Music as a move action
Inspire Courage +3
Weapon Master: +1 to attack/damage with weapon of choice
Attack Bonus +21 with inspire courage and class features (not including weapon focus and other goodies that you can do)
I will reiterate the issue with +10 max enchantment on magical weapons. Yes, Bladethirst is handy in low levels, but by higher levels you, and your party, will have all the gear they need. Most of the effects of Bladethrist are easily replicatable with magical gear (Scabbard of Ghost Touch is fantastic since it "buffs" your blade.
And he can still give out fantastic buffs, inspire courage is awesome, as are the spells he can cast. But as soon as you dip into fighter, the landscape changes as to how the class performs, and he wants the figher dip.
EDIT: for math. I blame my abacus
Okay being how OP is talking about TWFing with a big shield, big shield is heavy shield (can't bash with tower shield) and heavy shield is one handed weapon, which means you can TWF with a heavy shield and one handed weapon but it becomes a -4 penalty. Light shield is considered a light weapon, but you can't cast spells with your shield hand (except if you don't house rule it otherwise), only buckler allows you to cast spells while having it equipped and you can't bash with it, so buckler is out through the window.
Your only option with a big shield meaning heavy shield is heavy shield + shortsword (and shortsword will be used in off hand, but oh well, you got your concept intact). Also you probably figured this one out as it wasn't mentioned but i will note it for others: Always move around with your sword sheathed, so on first rounds of combat you can cast spells without losing actions, when you decide to move into combat, cast a spell, move, and as a move like action draw your shortsword.
Now, we are talking TWF here, so bladethirst is especially handy cause he doesn't need to split gold between two weapons and can get +6 on all physical stats +6 on cha and wis (and int if he is skill monkey) without gimping either of his weapons, so it stays as an viable option.
Now if you want to stick with TWF and change your concept a bit i seriously advise you to go with two short swords.
If you are getting 1 level of fighter, than get a 2nd level of fighter cause of another extra feat, if you are Weapon Master you will want 3rd as well and than its 1 level apart from weapon spec, your choice but if i was in your shoes i would dip into fighter for 4 levels and straight up fighter as well. Why ? Beyond weapon spec it gives you weapon training 1 - with that than grab gloves of dueling to pump that weapon training to WT 3. so in 4 levels of fighter you get 2 free feats (next to WS), +3 to attack and +5 to damage (not counting 2 BAB, just WT1).
Fighter 4/AD 16
Pros:
- +4 attack over straight AD (1 fighter, 1 from WP, 2 from gloves)[AD gives 3, fighter 4]
- +4 damage (2 WS, 1 WT, 2 gloves)[Loses 1 on Arcane Strike]
- higher HD
- armor training 1 (light/medium/heavy)
- Bravery 1 (meh)
- 2 extra feats (next to Weapon Spec)
Cons:
-Loses +1 on Bladethirst (Max +4)
-Loses Mass Bladethirst
-Loses Greater Penetrating Strike
-Loses spell slots and spells known but not spell levels
-Inspire Courage maxed at +3 (instead of +4)
I think that covers it.
PS. Is adventure going to 20th level or what ? It would be nice to know our limits instead of assuming its 20th level.
Okay being how OP is talking about TWFing with a big shield, big shield is heavy shield (can't bash with tower shield) and heavy shield is one handed weapon, which means you can TWF with a heavy shield and one handed weapon but it becomes a -4 penalty. Light shield is considered a light weapon, but you can't cast spells with your shield hand (except if you don't house rule it otherwise), only buckler allows you to cast spells while having it equipped and you can't bash with it, so buckler is out through the window.
Your only option with a big shield meaning heavy shield is heavy shield + shortsword (and shortsword will be used in off hand, but oh well, you got your concept intact). Also you probably figured this one out as it wasn't mentioned but i will note it for others: Always move around with your sword sheathed, so on first rounds of combat you can cast spells without losing actions, when you decide to move into combat, cast a spell, move, and as a move like action draw your shortsword.
Now, we are talking TWF here, so bladethirst is especially handy cause he doesn't need to split gold between two weapons and can get +6 on all physical stats +6 on cha and wis (and int if he is skill monkey) without gimping either of his weapons, so it stays as an viable option.
Now if you want to stick with TWF and change your concept a bit i seriously advise you to go with two short swords.
If you are getting 1 level of fighter, than get a 2nd level of fighter cause of another extra feat, if you are Weapon Master you will want 3rd as well and than its 1 level apart from weapon spec, your choice but if i was in your shoes i would dip into fighter for 4 levels and straight up fighter as well. Why ? Beyond weapon spec it gives you weapon training 1 - with that than grab gloves of dueling to pump that weapon training to WT 3. so in 4 levels of fighter you get 2 free feats (next to WS), +3 to attack and +5 to damage (not counting 2 BAB, just WT1).
Fighter 4/AD 16
Pros:
- +4 attack over straight AD (1 fighter,...
Yes, the game might go to 20
Good Hope and Inspire Courage both run off morale bonus so they do not stack (to my knowledge).
Good Hope and Inspire Courage both run off morale bonus so they do not stack (to my knowledge).
Incorrect -- inspire courage is partially a competence bonus -- the attack bonus and damage bonus specifically are.
1) You are right, it doesn't help with DR/-, but then, you are paying 8 levels for the ability to do 5 damage, to enemies that have a specific type of mitigation that occurs rather rarely throughout the game. Now, if all you are fighting is Invulnerable Barbarians, then yes, those feats suddenly have great merit.
2) Abe - Great Choices! Those feats will definitely help shore up some of the weaknesses of going TWF with a medium progression BAB.
3) Arden - you are right, I forgot that ADs get inspire courage (been doing too many Sandman Bards) So this changes my advice...
Arcane Duelist 7/Fighter (Weapon Master) 1/Arcane Duelist 5/Fighter Weapon Master 1/Eldritch Knight 5/Fighter (Weapon Master) 1
BAB: +17
Fort: +10
Ref: +11
Will: +11
Caster Level: 16 (You still get 6th level spells, just not alot of them)
Bardic Music as a move action
Inspire Courage +3
Weapon Master: +1 to attack/damage with weapon of choiceAttack Bonus +21 with inspire courage and class features (not including weapon focus and other goodies that you can do)
I will reiterate the issue with +10 max enchantment on magical weapons. Yes, Bladethirst is handy in low levels, but by higher levels you, and your party, will have all the gear they need. Most of the effects of Bladethrist are easily replicatable with magical gear (Scabbard of Ghost Touch is fantastic since it "buffs" your blade.
And he can still give out fantastic buffs, inspire courage is awesome, as are the spells he can cast. But as soon as you dip into fighter, the landscape changes as to how the class performs, and he wants the figher dip.
EDIT: for math. I blame my abacus
How about a total of Arcane Dualist 13/Fighter 3/EK 4?
This caster level 18 with magical knack trait, with yours it is 17. Plus you gain the ability to use bardic performance as a swift action, and still gain a base attack of 16, and you are able to get 6th level spells, while yours does not.
Arcane Duelist 7/Fighter (Weapon Master) 1/Arcane Duelist 5/Fighter Weapon Master 1/Eldritch Knight 5/Fighter (Weapon Master) 1
BAB: +17
Fort: +10
Ref: +11
Will: +11
Caster Level: 16 (You still get 6th level spells, just not alot of them)
Bardic Music as a move action
Inspire Courage +3
Weapon Master: +1 to attack/damage with weapon of choiceHow about a total of Arcane Dualist 13/Fighter 3/EK 4?
This caster level 18 with magical knack trait, with yours it is 17. Plus you gain the ability to use bardic performance as a swift action, and still gain a base attack of 16, and you are able to get 6th level spells, while yours does not.
With Magical Knack trait, my build has caster level 18, and 6th level spells.
If you take 13 levels of AD, you lose +1 BAB, with 4 levels of EK you lose the bonus feat. If you take the additional BAB hit, you might as well ride AD all the way to level 16, before you lose another BAB. The downside to your build is that you lose strategic placement of feats in "qualification zones: BAB+ and the like". So, if you go want to go that route, you might as well ditch EK altogether and go AD16/Fighter (Weapon Master) 4. At least you will pull another feat out. This build is going to be less optimal than the build I listed, but it will still be functional/useful. [The build I showed basically eeks out as much potential as you can squeeze out of 20 levels for an AD/fighter hybrid]
Arcane Duelist 7/Fighter (Weapon Master) 1/Arcane Duelist 5/Fighter Weapon Master 1/Eldritch Knight 5/Fighter (Weapon Master) 1
BAB: +17
Fort: +10
Ref: +11
Will: +11
Caster Level: 16 (You still get 6th level spells, just not alot of them)
Bardic Music as a move action
Inspire Courage +3
Weapon Master: +1 to attack/damage with weapon of choiceHow about a total of Arcane Dualist 13/Fighter 3/EK 4?
This caster level 18 with magical knack trait, with yours it is 17. Plus you gain the ability to use bardic performance as a swift action, and still gain a base attack of 16, and you are able to get 6th level spells, while yours does not.With Magical Knack trait, my build has caster level 18, and 6th level spells.
If you take 13 levels of AD, you lose +1 BAB, with 4 levels of EK you lose the bonus feat. If you take the additional BAB hit, you might as well ride AD all the way to level 16, before you lose another BAB. The downside to your build is that you lose strategic placement of feats in "qualification zones: BAB+ and the like". So, if you go want to go that route, you might as well ditch EK altogether and go AD16/Fighter (Weapon Master) 4. At least you will pull another feat out. This build is going to be less optimal than the build I listed, but it will still be functional/useful. [The build I showed basically eeks out as much potential as you can squeeze out of 20 levels for an AD/fighter hybrid]
So... How are you getting 6th level spells with only 15 equivalent caster levels in AD?
12 Levels AD
3 Levels EK from the 4 class levels.
That means you cast spells of a 15th level AD meaning you only get 5th level spells maximum, as you don't get 6th until level 16th.
P.S.
Maybe Fighter 3/AD 12/EK 5 would be better? Yeah you lose a feat, but you gain 6th level spells with out lose in base attack or hit points.
Arcane Duelist 7/Fighter (Weapon Master) 1/Arcane Duelist 5/Fighter Weapon Master 1/Eldritch Knight 5/Fighter (Weapon Master) 1
This build is AD 12/Fighter 3/Eldtrich Knight 5
12 levels from bard
4 levels from EK
= 16 Caster Levels
+2 Magical Knack
=18 Caster Levels
Also, don't be too enamoured with Swift Action singing, in my experience that is a bit lackluster since...I will generally cast in the same round I perform. So really, we just need to get performance off of the standard action.
My normal rounds generally end up something like this...
Swift - Spell [Haste] + Metamagic Rod (Quickened)
Move - Perform (Inspire Courage)
Standard - CHARGE!!!!!
Or...if I am first in initiative and don't want to run into a big group of bad guys only to be surrounded before the rest of my party acts...
Standard - Spell [Haste] (I am a big haste fan)
Move - Perform
Swift - Spell [Battlefield Control] + Metamagic Rod (Quickened)
So really..moving performance onto your swift action, only takes away your ability to arcane strike, and cast quickened spells. So, I don't see it as an imperative. Is it a nice ability...Yes! It is imperative to performing well at my job...Nope.
Also, don't be too enamoured with Swift Action singing, in my experience that is a bit lackluster since...I will generally cast in the same round I perform. So really, we just need to get performance off of the standard action.
My normal rounds generally end up something like this...
Swift - Spell [Haste] + Metamagic Rod (Quickened)
Move - Perform (Inspire Courage)
Standard - CHARGE!!!!!Or...if I am first in initiative and don't want to run into a big group of bad guys only to be surrounded before the rest of my party acts...
Standard - Spell [Haste] (I am a big haste fan)
Move - Perform
Swift - Spell [Battlefield Control] + Metamagic Rod (Quickened)So really..moving performance onto your swift action, only takes away your ability to arcane strike, and cast quickened spells. So, I don't see it as an imperative. Is it a nice ability...Yes! It is imperative to performing well at my job...Nope.
Wow my math was off, sorry. Thanks for the suggestions!
Do you have any for spells?
I am curious about your suggestions about feats. Here is what I have.
H Imp. Shield Bash
1 TWF
3 Double Slice
5 Toughness
7 Weapon Focus
F1 Imp TWF
9 Dazzling Display
11 Intimidating Prowess
13 Shield Slam
F2 Shield Mastery
EK Two Weapon Rend
15 Power Attack
17 Improved Bull Rush
19 Greater TWF
Do you have any suggestions, however I am looking to keep Dazzling Display, Intimidating Prowess, shield slam, and Shield Mastery.
Spells and general guidelines can be summed up by Treantmonk's guide better than I can put together all hodge-podge here :)
I would consider Weapon Specialization a nice addition to your list, since it appears you are going for lots of hits. Gang Up is nice.
It is really hard to say, usually TWFers go for Combat BFC, but pushing, slaming, stunning, triping, sundering, disarming..etc since 1) it is hard to get good DPR out of TWF without sneak attack 2) all those extra attacks just lend themselves well to maneuvers.
So, I would consider dropping Toughness and Power Attack in order to snag more BFC feats. Greater TWF stinks in terms of usefulness, I would replace that one as well.
Feat Progression is
1:
1(H):
1(B): Arcane Strike
2(B): Combat Casting
3:
5:
6(B):Disruptive
7:
[BAB+6] 8(F):
9:
11:
11(B): Spellbreaker
13:
[BAB+11] 14(F):
15:
15(EK):
17:
[BAB+16] 19:
19(EK):
You were leaving some feats out ;)
I thought Magical Knack only upped your Caster Level for purposes of level determination for your Spells, but provided no other benefit, such as extra spells gained etc...?
I thought Magical Knack only upped your Caster Level for purposes of level determination for your Spells, but provided no other benefit, such as extra spells gained etc...?
You are correct, only CL goes up not you spell level. So 16 Spell Level, 18 Caster Level.
Spells and general guidelines can be summed up by Treantmonk's guide better than I can put together all hodge-podge here :)
I would consider Weapon Specialization a nice addition to your list, since it appears you are going for lots of hits. Gang Up is nice.
It is really hard to say, usually TWFers go for Combat BFC, but pushing, slaming, stunning, triping, sundering, disarming..etc since 1) it is hard to get good DPR out of TWF without sneak attack 2) all those extra attacks just lend themselves well to maneuvers.
So, I would consider dropping Toughness and Power Attack in order to snag more BFC feats. Greater TWF stinks in terms of usefulness, I would replace that one as well.
Sorry BFC?
Sorry BFC?Spells and general guidelines can be summed up by Treantmonk's guide better than I can put together all hodge-podge here :)
I would consider Weapon Specialization a nice addition to your list, since it appears you are going for lots of hits. Gang Up is nice.
It is really hard to say, usually TWFers go for Combat BFC, but pushing, slaming, stunning, triping, sundering, disarming..etc since 1) it is hard to get good DPR out of TWF without sneak attack 2) all those extra attacks just lend themselves well to maneuvers.
So, I would consider dropping Toughness and Power Attack in order to snag more BFC feats. Greater TWF stinks in terms of usefulness, I would replace that one as well.
Battle-Field Control :) Such as [feats] Improved Trip, Dazzling Display, etc etc etc; or [spells] black tentacles of inappropriate grasping, grease, wall of stone, etc etc etc
Battle-Field Control :) Such as [feats] Improved Trip, Dazzling Display, etc etc etc; or [spells] black tentacles of inappropriate grasping, grease, wall of stone, etc etc etcSorry BFC?Spells and general guidelines can be summed up by Treantmonk's guide better than I can put together all hodge-podge here :)
I would consider Weapon Specialization a nice addition to your list, since it appears you are going for lots of hits. Gang Up is nice.
It is really hard to say, usually TWFers go for Combat BFC, but pushing, slaming, stunning, triping, sundering, disarming..etc since 1) it is hard to get good DPR out of TWF without sneak attack 2) all those extra attacks just lend themselves well to maneuvers.
So, I would consider dropping Toughness and Power Attack in order to snag more BFC feats. Greater TWF stinks in terms of usefulness, I would replace that one as well.
Gotcha. I really wish you didn't need combat expertise to do most combat maneuvers.
Is there anything in the rules that makes a TH-Weapon fighting arcane duelist mechanically flawed? Casting should be possible if I use a free action to take one hand off my weapon.
With arcane bond I don't even need to do that, if I read correctly.
I created a half-orc falchion wielding AD (25-point-buy) and I think he makes a decent party member.
His AC isn't that good, but it will suffice.
In case he is not party-buffing/controlling the spell "Dance of a Hundred Cuts" looks like a nice option.
Dance of a Hundred Cuts is great. Should be in any fighty bards spells known.
Is there anything in the rules that makes a TH-Weapon fighting arcane duelist mechanically flawed? Casting should be possible if I use a free action to take one hand off my weapon.
With arcane bond I don't even need to do that, if I read correctly.
Unfortunately it's been clarified that this doesn't work. Arcane Bond requires that you be "wielding" your bonded weapon, which means more than just holding it. Since wielding a two-handed weapon (obviously) requires two hands, you don't have a hand free for casting. This also means that Arcane Archers can't use their bow as their bonded item, regardless of how silly that is.
Unfortunately it's been clarified that this doesn't work. Arcane Bond requires that you be "wielding" your bonded weapon, which means more than just holding it. Since wielding a two-handed weapon (obviously) requires two hands, you don't have a hand free for casting. This also means that Arcane Archers can't use their bow as their bonded item, regardless of how silly that is.Is there anything in the rules that makes a TH-Weapon fighting arcane duelist mechanically flawed? Casting should be possible if I use a free action to take one hand off my weapon.
With arcane bond I don't even need to do that, if I read correctly.
Actuall, what you descriibe is only true for other classes with arcane bonds (like Wizards). The Arcane Duelist is the sole exception
Arcane Bond (Ex): At 5th level, an arcane duelist gains the arcane bond ability as a wizard, using a weapon as his bonded item, allowing him to cast any one addition spell that he knows once per day. He may not choose a familiar or other type of bonded item. He may use the hand holding his bonded weapon for somatic components. This ability replaces lore master.
So yes, as an Arcane Duelist, you can use a two-handed weapon as your arcane bond, wield it and still cast spells.
Actuall, what you descriibe is only true for other classes with arcane bonds (like Wizards). The Arcane Duelist is the sole exception
Arcane Bond (Ex): At 5th level, an arcane duelist gains the arcane bond ability as a wizard, using a weapon as his bonded item, allowing him to cast any one addition spell that he knows once per day. He may not choose a familiar or other type of bonded item. He may use the hand holding his bonded weapon for somatic components. This ability replaces lore master.So yes, as an Arcane Duelist, you can use a two-handed weapon as your arcane bond, wield it and still cast spells.
Whoops, absolutely correct. My bad. :) (starts looking into an Arcane Duelist/Arcane Archer)