Whip Fighter


Advice

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Silver Crusade

Squawk Featherbeak wrote:
yes, you could use it as a simple whip if you had the whip proficiency, but to use it as a SCORPION whip with the disarm, trip, and reach functions, you'd need both

Actually I believe it is clearer in the ruling that you just need proficiency in whips to use these qualities. Only "performance" needs the scorpion whip proficiency.


however as you use the scorpion whip as a whip, the 1d4 turns into a 1d3 and anything with a +1 armor bonus or a +3 natural armor bonus won't be damaged.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Squawk Featherbeak wrote:
however as you use the scorpion whip as a whip, the 1d4 turns into a 1d3 and anything with a +1 armor bonus or a +3 natural armor bonus won't be damaged.

That is why whip mastery takes care of that inconvenience.

The Exchange

Im really sorry to rain on your parade guys but my dm allows me a "mighty whip dagger" from the 3.0/3.5? Arms and equipment guild. Dose 1d6+5 (1d8+6 with enlarge person) with PA and enlarge i do 1d8+12)) No its not a dpr charecter but extra damage now and again helps. I would write more but i gotta go game.
Ps im already playing him and cant (wount) change his class.

Liberty's Edge

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Setting aside roleplaying factors for a moment, there is only one mechanical reason for electing to use a whip over a larger dice extended-threat-range polearm which grants the same maneuver abilities and you can use Power Attack and Shield of Swings with: whips are the only reach weapon you can TWF with which doesn't require you to sacrifice your armor class (as by Flurrying with a monk/multiclass).

= = = =

half-elf; ancestral arms

STR:12
DEX+19 (all bumps)
CON:14
INT:12
WIS:12
CHA:07

01 barb1 [urban][controlled rage], EWP:whip, Weapon Focus:Whip
02 fight1 [weapon master:whip], Whip Mastery
03 fight2 Extra Rage, Weapon Finesse
04 fight3 [Weapon Training +1]
05 fight4 Improved Whip Mastery, Weapon Specialization:Whip
06 barb2 [Uncanny Dodge][Reckless Abandon+1]
07 fight5 Two Weapon Fighting
08 fight6 Greater Whip Mastery or Improved Critical:Whip
09 fight7 Improved Two Weapon Fighting or Critical Focus
10 ...etc.

Weapons: two +1/Agile/Furious scorpion whips.
Other equipment: Gloves of Dueling, Pale Green Ioun Stone (cracked)

Strategy here is full BAB pure damage and lots of reach attacks without being distracted by maneuvers (aside from disarm at low level and grapple with GWM); low output until Agile enhancements and dueling gloves, but then kicks into high gear.

...as you can see, it takes a stupid high amounts of feats to make a whip an appalling weapon. (If Whip Mastery gave you free finesse in whip it wouldn't be quite so harsh.)


Mike Schneider wrote:
whips are the only reach weapon you can TWF with which doesn't require you to sacrifice your armor class

What? Are you claiming that you can wield a whip in each hand?

Please explain.


Blueluck wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:
whips are the only reach weapon you can TWF with which doesn't require you to sacrifice your armor class

What? Are you claiming that you can wield a whip in each hand?

Please explain.

it's a light weapon.


Squawk Featherbeak wrote:
Blueluck wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:
whips are the only reach weapon you can TWF with which doesn't require you to sacrifice your armor class

What? Are you claiming that you can wield a whip in each hand?

Please explain.
it's a light weapon.

Nope, not in my book. On page 143 it's listed under "Exotic, one-handed, melee weapon" not "Exotic, light, melee weapon". The PFSRD agrees.

Hmmmm, while reading the PFSRD to see if there had been an errata, I noticed that Scorpion Whip is listed as "Exotic, light, melee weapon". How odd! So, with a whip you add your full STR bonus, whith a Scorpion whip you add half? Also, you can wield a whip in one hand and a Scorpion Whip in the other, but not two whips?

Something's fishy.


OH RIGHT! That's why I preferred both weapon proficiencies. Cause you can choose to either have it as a light weapon or as a cmb trickweapon

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Mike Schneider wrote:

Setting aside roleplaying factors for a moment, there is only one mechanical reason for electing to use a whip over a larger dice extended-threat-range polearm which grants the same maneuver abilities and you can use Power Attack and Shield of Swings with: whips are the only reach weapon you can TWF with which doesn't require you to sacrifice your armor class (as by Flurrying with a monk/multiclass).

So this thread does start out as an attempt to make a viable, not optimal whip build.

That being said, the whip is the only reach weapon with trip, and disarm, and can be used for dealing non-lethal damage without a penalty (you may want to do this, all though if it is for "i'm a good pc I don't kill people" reasons, I'm not sure any human rights tribunal will laud you for whipping someone unconscious.)

In general, with the introduction of Whip Mastery, I'm not sure I would ever take the second prof in Scorpion whip, it buys you performance, and a light weapon, but the penalty for a light weapon is 1/2 damage w/str & power attack

Even weapon finesse seems not worth while, when you can just go strength?

I don't know I'm just not sold on the scorpion whip.

The Exchange

Thats why i got the mighty whip dagger, it has all the benifits of the regular whip and scorpian whip with better damage. So its a one handed, weapon finniness using (i dont have it tho), 1d6+x, 15foot reach, theatens at 10 feet(with two feats) with weapon training and improved trip i could even trip a running horse, use the aoo to disarm AM BARBARIAN of his lance while my friends pound him to dust.

Liberty's Edge

Blueluck wrote:
I noticed that Scorpion Whip is listed as "Exotic, light, melee weapon".

Exactly; which is why a DEX-based urban-barbarian/fighter can really shred with a pair of Agile/Furious whips.

...provided he doesn't mind them sucking up every single feat slot all the way to 12th level.

Dark Archive

Jasper Boswell wrote:

Im really sorry to rain on your parade guys but my dm allows me a "mighty whip dagger" from the 3.0/3.5? Arms and equipment guild. Dose 1d6+5 (1d8+6 with enlarge person) with PA and enlarge i do 1d8+12)) No its not a dpr charecter but extra damage now and again helps. I would write more but i gotta go game.

Ps im already playing him and cant (wount) change his class.

i thought whip daggers only did a d4?

"mighty" is redundant now, since you can add str damage to a whip anyway.


Blueluck wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:
whips are the only reach weapon you can TWF with which doesn't require you to sacrifice your armor class

What? Are you claiming that you can wield a whip in each hand?

Please explain.

What's the problem with using two whips aside from additional -2 attack penalty?


For the Magus, if your DM allows non Paizo material, you may find the feat Spellstrike Trip that let you deliver touch spells while making a trip attack to your liking.

You'll find it in Advanced Feats: Might of the Magus
.

The Exchange

Name violation: not in the version of the guild we have: it does 1d6
And since that is the rule we went with, the "mighty" disingation, with the extra cost made up for the extra damage i guess.
If that makes any since...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

So I've been tinkering, and trying to keep to Core / PFRPG for a fun to play, mechanically reasonable character, I'm afraid it is a 25 point build as that is what we play, I will comment at the end on what comes out.

Human Inquisitor [Calistra] 6 / Fighter 6

Str 18 (15 + Human + L4 Bump)
Dex 16 (15 + L8 Bump)
Con 14 (13 + L12 Bump)
Int 13
Wis 14
Cha 10

Feats:
Level 1 (Inq 1):
Combat Expertise
Combat Reflexes (Human Bonus Feat)

Level 2 (Fighter 1):
Weapon Focus (Whip) (Fighter Bonus Feat)

Level 3 (Fighter 2):
Whip Mastery
Improved Trip (Fighter Bonus Feat)

Level 4 (Inq 2):
stat bump str

Level 5 (Inq 3):
Fury's Fall (Non-core, but is PFRPG, if 15 point build, or restricted to core replace with power attack.)
Coordinated Maneuvers (Inq TW Feat)

Level 6 (Fighter 3):
-
Level 7 (Fighter 4) (Level mixing was done to get BAB 6 for feat requirement here):
Lunge
Greater Trip (Fighter bonus feat)

Level 8 (Fighter 5):
Stat Bump Dex

Level 9 (Fighter 6):
Imp Whip Mastery
Disruptive (Fighter bonus feat)

Level 10 (Inq 4):
-

Level 11 (Inq 5):
Power Attack (if not already taken, otherwise toughness)

Level 12 (Inq 6):
Stat bump con
Floating Inq Teamwork feat, default being "lookout"

BAB +10/+3

But your CMB to trip, would be (before magical items)

10 (bab) + 1 (weap foc) + 1 (weap training) + 6 (cmb feats) + 7 (str/dex) = +25

For Magic Items I would make sure you had:
+3 Dueling Whip (the dueling property from the Pathfinder Society book APG)
Dueling Gloves (to boost weapon training)
+2 str/dex

Granting an addition +13 to your trip.
and + 4 from Bane and Justice Judgement

Basically your probably able to trip just about anyone, but spell casters (divine or arcane) are seriously going to be menaced by your ability to put them on the ground, and threaten them when casting. The inquisitor levels give you enough interesting goodies and skill points that your not a one trick pony, and with power attack you should at least be able to deal out damage in fights against untrippable foes.

The Exchange

Looks like a very solid build. Just remember that lunge isen't all that great, with a simple enlarge person spell you get a (normal) whip range of 25', with a threaten of 10'. With lunge you are giving up some ATT bonus for an extra 5', and when lunged for that extra 5' you cant use your combat reflexes, you CAN reach out and trip some one tho. But usually its just EZer to take a 5' step.

Just my two copper

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Jasper Boswell wrote:

Looks like a very solid build. Just remember that lunge isen't all that great, with a simple enlarge person spell you get a (normal) whip range of 25', with a threaten of 10'. With lunge you are giving up some ATT bonus for an extra 5', and when lunged for that extra 5' you cant use your combat reflexes, you CAN reach out and trip some one tho. But usually its just EZer to take a 5' step.

Just my two copper

Lunge works with all of those options, always giving you just a little bit more reach. Is it an amazing feat, not, but I think it fits the build well.

The Exchange

You have imp. trip. If you trip and you are lunging they dont prevoke an AoO.
Edit: greater trip...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Jasper Boswell wrote:

You have imp. trip. If you trip and you are lunging they dont prevoke an AoO.

Edit: greater trip...

Interesting I had never considered that, I had always assumed that when you tripped (w/greater trip) that your allies and not you were the beneficiary of the provoked AoO. Yet on rereading I think you interpretation may be correct, you get a free attack when you trip someone w/greater trip.

Still if that is the case, lunge increases your reach until the end of your turn, as it is still your turn, are they not still within reach. As reach as a weapon property is a special case, where as when used with respect to natural attacks is considered == to threat (see a bestiary entry for a larger creature.) Since the wording doesn't say gives your weapon the reach property, I think it increases your threatened reach, and so if greater trip provokes from you, it works with reach.

The Exchange

You make a great arguement. (And no im not trying to be snarky)
I think im gettin it.
Reach and threaten are two separate things.
-normal unarmed ATT (+unarmed strike)=range and theaten 5'
-lunge+unarmed ATT(+unarmed strike=range and theaten10'
-normal whip (no whip mastery)=threaten 0' range 15'
-whip with whip mastery= threaten 5' range 15'
-whip with whip mastery and lunge= threaten 5' range 20'
-whip with imp. whip mastery= threaten 10' range 15'
-Whip with imp. whip mastery and lunge=threaten 10' range 20'
And thats not even going into Large range and theatend areas...
As i understand it when you prevoke an AoO (ie greater trip) you can only take advantege of that AoO if you threaten them, thus a greater range isnt all that great if you cant take advantage of that greater range.
I think im talking in circles, my head hurts ;-)


This is a slow build, but try using the Two Weapon Warrior Fighter Archetype with a few lvls in Rogue. The two Rogue Talents can essentially be used for combat feats (Weapon Focus and one of the TWF feats), you get 2d6 SA, trapfinding, evasion, uncanny dodge, etc from the rogue, bonuses to defense and attack as well as the ability to dual-wield one-handed weapons as light weapons for TWF from the fighter, in addition to some other TWF benefits.

Take the TWF tree, the Whip Mastery tree, the Shatter Defenses feat chain, Combat Reflexes, Critical Focus, Bleeding Critical, Sneaking Precision, and Blinding Critical. Alternately you can substitute the Shatter Defenses feat chain for the Dirty Trick tree and blind them temporarily at a lower lvl to begin with.

Either way, once you have Bleeding Critical, Sneaking Precision, and can blind your opponents you get the extra stacking bleed dmg every round, possibly multiple times in a round. You may not start out dealing a ton of dmg in a fight, but you will be powning towards the end.

I actually have a build which does just this and wields troll gut ropes with the Equipment Trick (Rope) feat.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Jasper Boswell wrote:

You make a great arguement. (And no im not trying to be snarky)

I think im gettin it.
Reach and threaten are two separate things.
-normal unarmed ATT (+unarmed strike)=range and theaten 5'
-lunge+unarmed ATT(+unarmed strike=range and theaten10'
-normal whip (no whip mastery)=threaten 0' range 15'
-whip with whip mastery= threaten 5' range 15'
-whip with whip mastery and lunge= threaten 5' range 20'
-whip with imp. whip mastery= threaten 10' range 15'
-Whip with imp. whip mastery and lunge=threaten 10' range 20'
And thats not even going into Large range and theatend areas...
As i understand it when you prevoke an AoO (ie greater trip) you can only take advantege of that AoO if you threaten them, thus a greater range isnt all that great if you cant take advantage of that greater range.
I think im talking in circles, my head hurts ;-)

I don't disagree with your numbers oven your inturpertation of lunge, but I think that understanding of lunge is coming from that it does extend beyond the end of your turn, do your reach is not extended to provoke AoOs outside of your own turn. So it comes down to the meaning of reach within the lunge feat, and I think we agree that we don't agree.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

New optimization option, the Whip Specialist trait from pirates of the inner sea, grants +1 damage on all whip attacks.


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come on now whip it
whip it good

Grand Lodge

Interesting build, Galnorag. Inquisitor is great for mixing things up. :)

I've been working on one of these myself (character sheet - 20 point buy), here is what I've got so far.
Straight Lore Warden Fighter > Dex focus.
This can be a human, half-orc, or half-elf. All can get the proficiency at 1st. I went with Human to maximize skill points for the Lore Warden.

1) Exotic Weapon Prof (Whip), Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus(Whip) | Trait: Heirloom Weapon(Trip)
2) Combat Expertise(LW Bonus), Whip Mastery
3) Serpent Lash (This feat rocks, check it out).
4) Combat Reflexes
5) Improved Whip Mastery

With a 20 point build & standard WBL at level five, she has reach 15', threatens to 10', gets 5+ AoOs, has a +15 to disarm, a +15 trip, and a +13 sunder(just in case).
Disarm is just about as good as Greater Disarm thanks to Serpent Lash, and when Tripping she gets a free attack once per round (Thanks again, Serpent Lash!).
If one is feeling adventurous, they can pull the offending enemy closer, generating AoOs similar to Greater trip. Yep, that is Serpent Lash.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There is also a feat greater serpent lash somewhere.

I heavily suggest the dueling field guide weapon enhancement for that.


My PFS build for a Tiefling Scimitar-Bound Whip-Kensai with a 2 lvl Lore Warden dip for the proficiencies and 3 bonus feats. It should be effective all the way from level 1 with the scimitar. It really comes into its own around lvl 6, when I switch to enlarging with an agile dueling scorpion whip and AoA-trip everyone within 15 feet.

20 point attributes
Str 10
Con 12
Dex 17+2 (+1 at lvl 4)
Int 17+2 (+1 at lvl 8)
Wis 7
Cha 7-2

Racial traits prehensile tail
Focused mind +2 concentration
Adopted (Chain master) +2 on trip with whip

lvl 1 Lore Warden 1
Weapon Finesse
Dervish Dance

lvl 2 Kensai 1
Weapon Prof (Whip)*
Weapon Focus (Whip)*

lvl 3 Kensai 2
Whip Mastery

lvl 4 Kensai 3
Black Blade Scimitar

lvl 5 Kensai 4
Combat Reflexes (or EWP)

lvl 6 Lore Warden
Combat Expertise*
Improved Whip Mastery

lvl 7 Kensai 5
Improved Trip
Greater Trip

lvl 8 Kensai 6
Magus Arcana (accurate strike)

lvl 9 Kensai 7
Fury's Fall (double dex bonus ftw)

I could also trade out the trip feats and get combat patrol. With enlarge person, that covers an area 50 ft across. And at lvl 15 I can transform into a huge humanoid, complete with a 45 ft reach and a threatened area 65 feet across(with about 15 AoAs/turn). But I can't use combat patrol and spell combat on the same turn, which is a big trade off. My AoAs are pretty awesome anyway, so I'll probably skip it.

After that, I'm not sure what to do with the rest of my levels. Weapon mastery would be nice, along with disruptive. There are many good magus arcanas. I also need to grab some metamagic feats (intensified for shocking grasp). I might also try to fit in another Lore Warden level for the +2 CMB and CMD.


3rd level of Lore Warden gets you +2 to CMB.

Lore Warden-3/Cavalier-XX is my current path (Str based, started as a Cavalier for the armor)


I just realized that I can't take Dervish Dance at lvl 1. So I'll have to go Kensai at lvl 1 and Lore Warden at lvl 2.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Jordon, wondering why you went blackblade scimitar for your whip build? Just for DD?


[Peeks in room.]

Sorry. Thought this room had invitation to whip a fighter.


Galnörag wrote:
Jordon, wondering why you went blackblade scimitar for your whip build? Just for DD?

For one thing, a a tiefling wielding a spiked whip and a black scimitar is just plain cool.

I originally went black blade scorpion whip, but realized that isn't really effective. For a dex-based whip, you really want agile and/or dueling enchantments to make it a viable weapon. But, at least RAW, you can't add those to a dark blade. Playing PFS, I can't count of DMs letting me add those with arcane pool. So the only effective black-blade weapon where you can add dex to damage is a scimitar.

The synergy between a dex whip and dervish build is substantial. For two skill ranks and 1 feat in DD, I add a lot of versatility and make my first several levels much easier. If I face something that my whip isn't effective against, I can have my tail hold my whip and pull out my scimitar. It triples my spellstrike threat chance and is much better at low levels, and lets me switch up the damage type at will. It will probably become less helpful at higher levels, though.

I might drop the black blade to get the extra arcana and arcane points. If I end up relying only on my whip at higher levels, I can grab two more levels of lore warden and trade DD for another feat. Alternatively, I can drop the dervish completely and grab another feat. There are a couple of nice teifling racial feats I could grab. That also lets me take lore warden at first level and use a rapier instead of an AOO-provoking whip.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

what a well rounded character instead of single focused whip lord, fie fie on you for playing for fun instead of rule bending terror.

or better said, good point

The tail is a good trick

The Exchange

Can you trip with your tail too?


Jasper Boswell wrote:
Can you trip with your tail too?

Unfortunately not. It mostly just gives you a pseudo-quickdraw for small items. If you take a feat, you can grab unattended items (like disarmed weapons) as a swift action. It might be useful for sleight of hand.

The actual text is "Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action. This racial trait replaces fiendish sorcery." A prehensile tail is cool and fiendish sorcery is useless to a non-sorcerer, so why not?

It requires some interpretation, but depending on your DM you can transfer items to and from your tail as either a free or swift action. It is especially useful if you take the wand wielder arcana, if you DM says you can use wands with your tail. One true strike trip per turn at 15gp apiece, anyone?


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I did some more planning for the Whip Kensai/Lore Warden build and I think I've improved it a lot. It is rough at level 1, but it should be fun and effective from then on. I'm going to start this character in a PFS game today. I'd love to hear any thoughts or advice you have.

Race: Tiefling with the prehensile tail alternate racial trait
Traits: Magical Knack (+2 CL) and Adopted:Whip Master(+2 to trip with whip)
Attributes:
Str 7
Con 14
Dex 19
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 5

I dumped strength because it won't be important after lvl 1, and charisma because I don't mind playing a gruff, unlikable tiefling. With that, I can start with 14 con and +4 in both my major stats.

Level 1; Kensai 1: Weapon Finesse, Whip Proficiency (B), Weapon Focus Whip (B)
This will be a rough level: 1 first level spell, no martial weapons, and the whip doing 1d3-2 damage. Probably have to stick to tripping, using a weak sickle, and casting a color spray every once in awhile. I'll just let someone else carry me through the first module.

Level 2; Lore Warden 1: Dervish Dance (fighter)
This feat will help me be useful at lower levels, and I will trade it out at level 9 for a whip specialization. The whip isn't great at this point, but I can now deal some great damage with my scimitar and throw out a spell every once in awhile.

Level 3; Lore Warden 2: Whip Mastery, Combat Expertise (B), Improved Trip
Alright, now I have options. If they can be tripped, pull out the whip and go to town. If not, I can still deal some great damage with my scimitar.

Level 4; Kensai 2: +1 dex
Now I get spellstrike and a second spell slot with caster level 4. I can start tripping someone from 15 feet away, and then hitting them with shocking grasp for 4d6 while they are down. Around this time, I should be able to afford some pearls of power. Eventually, I want to have several level 1 pearls so that I can cast all of my spells every battle.

Level 5; Kensai 3: Fury's Fall, Magus Arcana(Arcane Accuracy)
At this point, my CMB for whip trips can easily get up to +27 (4 BAB + 2 enhancement + 1 WF + 12 dex twice + 4 arcana + 2 trait + 2 feat). I can trip huge creatures with an enlarge person scroll. And the scimitar and shocking grasps are still very effective when damage is called for.

Level 6; Kensai 4:
Level 2 spells are finally here. The kensai lvl 4 ability sucks for whips, and no spell recall is a bummer. But not spending my arcane points on recalling spells means I can keep up arcane accuracy more. And pearls of power pick up some of the slack from losing recall. This level is also when my dex bonus to AC maxes out at +9 without attribute enhancements. Not bad, with enchanted ceremonial silk armor on top of it.

Level 7; Lore Warden 3: Improved Whip Mastery
I want Kensai 5 more, but I need to get +6 BAB this level to make my feat progression work. The +2 CMB is nice, and being able to threaten with my trip-tastic whip is great. But one AOO isn't nearly enough...

Level 8; Kensai 5: +1 dex, Combat Reflexes (bonus)
This is more like it: 10 foot threaten radius with 6 AOOs per turn. Or enlarge self to make it 15 feet. Trip them and then AOO them again when they stand up. Level 5 also means I can start adding effects to my weapons.

Level 9; Lore Warden 4: Greater Trip (bonus), Weapon Spec (trade out dervish dance), extra arcana(maneuver mastery trip)
Now that I have an agile scorpion whip that threatens and doesn't provoke AOOs, I don't need a scimitar any more. Greater trip and maneuver mastery round out my AOO-tripping excellence.

Level 10; Kensai 6: Disruptive (magus arcana)

Level 11; Kensai 7: Greater Whip Mastery

That is as far as I can expect to go in Pathfinder Society games, but it should be really effective throughout. Anything that can be tripped will be tripped. Anything else will still suffer ranged touch spells and frequent AOOs. I'll be behind the curve when it comes to spell casting, but it should be worth it.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

If third-party content is on the table, we've printed a full archetype dedicated to whips-and-chains fighters. You can find a few whip-related fighter feats here, too. Enjoy!

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

If no one minds, I'll mention another 3rd party resource, The Scourger by Above Average Creations. Either supplement (or both!) should give you more gaming ideas for a whip wielding character.

Jerry. :)
(Disclaimer: Author for AAC)


Master_Crafter wrote:

This is a slow build, but try using the Two Weapon Warrior Fighter Archetype with a few lvls in Rogue. The two Rogue Talents can essentially be used for combat feats (Weapon Focus and one of the TWF feats), you get 2d6 SA, trapfinding, evasion, uncanny dodge, etc from the rogue, bonuses to defense and attack as well as the ability to dual-wield one-handed weapons as light weapons for TWF from the fighter, in addition to some other TWF benefits.

Take the TWF tree, the Whip Mastery tree, the Shatter Defenses feat chain, Combat Reflexes, Critical Focus, Bleeding Critical, Sneaking Precision, and Blinding Critical. Alternately you can substitute the Shatter Defenses feat chain for the Dirty Trick tree and blind them temporarily at a lower lvl to begin with.

Either way, once you have Bleeding Critical, Sneaking Precision, and can blind your opponents you get the extra stacking bleed dmg every round, possibly multiple times in a round. You may not start out dealing a ton of dmg in a fight, but you will be powning towards the end.

I actually have a build which does just this and wields troll gut ropes with the Equipment Trick (Rope) feat.

would you be willing to share it?


Thread Necro is better than a new thread I guess..

Half-Orc Cavalier-1/Lore-Warden 15 for the win. Took all the whip feats and trip. Between dirty tricks, tripping, and grappling with my whip dude is pretty badass. Great saves from the half-orc racial and Fate's Favored trait.

Really can't complain about anything other than the lack of excessive criticals, but the fun factor is unparalleled

Mike Schneider wrote:

Setting aside roleplaying factors for a moment, there is only one mechanical reason for electing to use a whip over a larger dice extended-threat-range polearm which grants the same maneuver abilities and you can use Power Attack and Shield of Swings with: whips are the only reach weapon you can TWF with which doesn't require you to sacrifice your armor class (as by Flurrying with a monk/multiclass).

Well there's the fact that the whip is one-handed, can be used to grapple, can attack adjacent opponents, and has longer reach...

Grand Lodge

This


Quantum Steve wrote:

Lots of awesome ideas!

Shield Slam would be a good off-hand attack and keeps up AC. Bull Rush, then I could whip the foe without provoking!

I'm not too worried about not getting AoOs, it would be nice, but any other charcater wielding a one-handed weapon doesn't get AoOs past 5 feet, so I'm not exactly losing anything.

Will download the Super Genius Guide, sounds intriguing.

How would enlarge (or a large creature) interact with a whip? Normal reach weapons double your reach. 5' > 10' for a medium creature, 10' > 20' for a large creature. The whip is kind of a special case in that it increase your reach from 5' > 15'. For large, would that triple: 10' > 30'? It's not really explained.

Can you use the Steal Item Manuever to steal an unattended item with a whip? That is, disarm them, then steal their weapon off the ground?

I'm making my Gnome for a different game, so race is open, probably human for the feat. A tentative 4-level build (starting level) would be

Ftr 4
** spoiler omitted **

Or, I could go Inquisitor for extra enemy control via intimidate/spells/judgment also buffs, with a Fighter dip for feats. Calistra for Whip prof.

Inq 2/Ftr 2
** spoiler omitted **
With Inquisitor, I may want to forgo Shield Slam/TWF to pick up Imp. Trip and Disarm since I won't be getting any further Fighter feats.

Looking at the SRD, Fury's Fall and Fury's Snare look interesting. Still don't know if any of the Fighter archetypes work. TWF, or Shield Fighter, perhaps? or even Weapon Master. I may change the build when I pick up the Genius Guide.

In this case, a gnome would become medium from small and wouldn't gain natural increased reach.

However, if you were human, your natural reach would be 10 feet or 2 squares. A reach weapon doubles the natural reach range but prevents attacks from being made within your natural reach.

For example, a huge creature has a 10 feet reach. If he wields a reach weapon, he would be able to hit between 10feet and 20 feet but unable to attack under 10 feet. Lunge would increase this to 15-30 but no attacks made within 0-15.

Reach makes a fight more tactical and without fighter feats such as pin down, it is hard to keep ennemies with high acrobatics score at bay since they can just charge you over while avoiding AoOs.


As for the whip itself, it does add 15 feet by default but the rules of reach weapons remains the same which is doubling a creature's natural reach. Now you may either consider it a triple range so it would instead triple it or simply add a 5 feet reach after multiplying by 2.

The only interesting thing in the case of the whip is that the limitation for minimal reach doesn't apply and but it doesn't threaten any squares within its reach.

I know people above have posted about the scorpion whip but the scorpion whip does not have the reach modifier only performance.


Chillsabre wrote:

As for the whip itself, it does add 15 feet by default but the rules of reach weapons remains the same which is doubling a creature's natural reach. Now you may either consider it a triple range so it would instead triple it or simply add a 5 feet reach after multiplying by 2.

The only interesting thing in the case of the whip is that the limitation for minimal reach doesn't apply and but it doesn't threaten any squares within its reach.

I know people above have posted about the scorpion whip but the scorpion whip does not have the reach modifier only performance.

Really don't know what you are trying to say. Improved Whip Mastery allows whips to threaten to 10ft.


Squawk Featherbeak wrote:
I made this build a while back. hope you like it. link

I was wondering if you could repost that build here? tumblr seems to have lost it...

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