Idea for Evil Golarion Campaign - Which undead?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


A while ago I had a idea in my head for a evil campain. I don't have the campaign book and I'm waiting until the new revised version before deciding on the story and so forth.

So far the idea was that everyone starts as a vampire, called upon by their master a "head" vampire. The way I rule it is a ancient vampire can make vampires or possibly vampire spawn become fully, fledged vampires after so many centuries.

Anyway, they are invited by their leader who assembles them for a task. A task involving travelling Golarian in search of...something.

Possible idea was to assemble knowledge of either a way to make more powerful undead or even constructs (Such as Carrion Golems in Korvosa) so that they could be used to fight against their enemies and maybe even the world-wound (Assuming that the denizens of Geb don't like the Demons) or possibly for some other melevolent purpose.

Main thing is my friend said how a vampire would be a hard type of undead to balance and said ghoul so I wonder if anyone has another suggestion? What type of undead could be used in a Geb setting and won't have balance issues?

Edit: Just read the description of Vampire Spawn, so just to have it clerified, the characters could be full vampires, not spawn.


Vampires do indeed come with a ton of goodies. All undead are gonna give ya a bit of trouble as they have a lot of immunities and they can not self heal for the most part. An easy way would be to just add the undead type to whatever they make

Was a elf fighter, well you still are but now with the undead type. But ghouls would be less troublesome then vampires to balance things and don't have all those weaknesses.

Also skeleton warrior is another idea


Mind it just depends on what level you want to play at :) you could be working for the Litch King known as the wispering tyrant trying to get out from his shakles in the crypts of Ustalav :)

Silver Crusade

Ghouls aren't automatically hideous looking in Golarion as long as they don't eat a lot, so there may be added appeal there. There's also a lot of great setting fluff for them, particularly around(or rather under) Osirion.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:

Vampires do indeed come with a ton of goodies. All undead are gonna give ya a bit of trouble as they have a lot of immunities and they can not self heal for the most part. An easy way would be to just add the undead type to whatever they make

Was a elf fighter, well you still are but now with the undead type. But ghouls would be less troublesome then vampires to balance things and don't have all those weaknesses.

Also skeleton warrior is another idea

Hmm...problem with Skeliton Warrior is that it wouldn't be very good is the characters are meant to try and be "incogneto", however as I've stated I've not come up with a solid idea to use yet.

Shizvestus wrote:
Mind it just depends on what level you want to play at :) you could be working for the Litch King known as the wispering tyrant trying to get out from his shakles in the crypts of Ustalav :)

I was assuming a somwhat mid-low level due to the fact that undead get all kinds of immunities and stuff, not to mention they would possibly be 2nd or 3rd level when they fell to their death and then later animation as a undead.

I do love the idea of them working for the Whisper Tyrant. My DM hinted at him in a session of Pathfinder we did. He first converted the rules of pathfinder to his homebrew world and then afterrwards he moved us into the pathfinder world. Hmm...really love the idea that they are either in the vault trying to find a way out, or they hear the message from him from afar, telling them where his item is and they have to pose as would-be adventuers so that they gain the trust of the kingdom, find the "key" and then finally break out the Lich king where all the s*&+ hits the fan and the city is flooded with undead!

Hell that could lead up to a sequal campaign where the players get to be heroes and have to try and clear the undead out of the city and then perminantly destroy the Whispering Tyrant.

Mikaze wrote:
Ghouls aren't automatically hideous looking in Golarion as long as they don't eat a lot, so there may be added appeal there. There's also a lot of great setting fluff for them, particularly around(or rather under) Osirion.

Hmm...interesting. I always thought Ghouls would look like their picture in the bestiary. I should definantly look this up. I was aiming for intelligent creatures as I can't really see how useful it would be DMing sessions where the players would simply go

"Uhhhhh"
"Grrrooaaannnn"
"Brainnnnnnssss"
"Fleshhhhh"

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I think there's even a cosmopolitan ghoul option in classic horrors revisited.

Silver Crusade

DM Aron Marczylo wrote:


Hmm...interesting. I always thought Ghouls would look like their picture in the bestiary. I should definantly look this up. I was aiming for intelligent creatures as I can't really see how useful it would be DMing sessions where the players would simply go
"Uhhhhh"
"Grrrooaaannnn"
"Brainnnnnnssss"
"Fleshhhhh"

The fine details are covered in Classic Horrors Revisited, along with the cosmo ghouls Archmagi1 mentioned. When Pathfinder first started up, all the way into Second Darkness, ghouls looked like hairless white gaunt elves with sharp teeth and red eyes.(there's actually a neat little fluff reason for this, tying it into elven immunity to ghoul paralysis!). There's even been one example of an attractive, albiet freaky, female ghoul in one adventure path.

THen for some reason, there seemes to have been an art design about-face, and most of the ghouls that have been drawn lately have been of the putrid variety. Classic Horrors accounts for both looks though:

The more a ghoul eats, the more its flesh rots away to be replaced by new flesh. That way picky eaters retain that "pristine" look, while those that give in to their hunger wind up looking like the usual expectations. Aforementioned "pretty ghoul" notably had a discriminating diet. Just thought it was neat how it was all tied together. The "royal" Egyptian-ish ghoul couple in my homebrew have maintined their appearances following those rules, just eating a finger from their followers, here and there.

PC ghouls could have some interesting problems to deal with. Looking fresh would make it easier to disguise themselves and pass themselves off as the living. Their hunger should always be present though.

Here's a question about ghoul PCs, should denying their hunger incur penalties? Or should indulging in it grant bonuses? Just something to keep that horrible gnawing hunger present in the players' minds, but also not something that punishes them constantly for not turning into depraved killcrazy lunatics. Unless that hunger is something that can be mastered...

To be honest, the idea of a good PC(or party) getting infected and ghouled and fighting against that horrible horrible urge holds some appeal as well.


Mikaze wrote:
DM Aron Marczylo wrote:


Hmm...interesting. I always thought Ghouls would look like their picture in the bestiary. I should definantly look this up. I was aiming for intelligent creatures as I can't really see how useful it would be DMing sessions where the players would simply go
"Uhhhhh"
"Grrrooaaannnn"
"Brainnnnnnssss"
"Fleshhhhh"

The fine details are covered in Classic Horrors Revisited, along with the cosmo ghouls Archmagi1 mentioned. When Pathfinder first started up, all the way into Second Darkness, ghouls looked like hairless white gaunt elves with sharp teeth and red eyes.(there's actually a neat little fluff reason for this, tying it into elven immunity to ghoul paralysis!). There's even been one example of an attractive, albiet freaky, female ghoul in one adventure path.

THen for some reason, there seemes to have been an art design about-face, and most of the ghouls that have been drawn lately have been of the putrid variety. Classic Horrors accounts for both looks though:

The more a ghoul eats, the more its flesh rots away to be replaced by new flesh. That way picky eaters retain that "pristine" look, while those that give in to their hunger wind up looking like the usual expectations. Aforementioned "pretty ghoul" notably had a discriminating diet. Just thought it was neat how it was all tied together. The "royal" Egyptian-ish ghoul couple in my homebrew have maintined their appearances following those rules, just eating a finger from their followers, here and there.

PC ghouls could have some interesting problems to deal with. Looking fresh would make it easier to disguise themselves and pass themselves off as the living. Their hunger should always be present though.

Here's a question about ghoul PCs, should denying their hunger incur penalties? Or should indulging in it grant bonuses? Just something to keep that horrible gnawing hunger present in the players' minds, but also not something that punishes them constantly for not turning into depraved...

I like that idea to. Definantly winning me over on the idea of Ghouls. I was hoping vampires since they can be alot more influencial, however at the same time I'm also a big fan of vamps too and it would be a pain with being unable to walk about in sunlight. Perhaps I could consult the Bestiary 2 for Dhampires?


If the OP doesn't mind updating some rules, the Green Ronin's book Fang & Fury has a variant class of vampires that works great as a player's characater race.

The product is OoP, but the PDF is still for sale: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Fang+%26+ Fury&x=0&y=0&quicksearch=1&search_filter=&filters=& search_free=&search_in_description=1&search_in_author=1&search_ in_artist=1


If you don't mind a little backwards-looking rules, Libris Mortis from 3.5 had excellent rules on undead hunger - basically, if you don't eat you have to make a Will save or take Wisdom damage, and if you hit 0 wisdom you basically turn into a mindless monster that cares for nothing but getting food. Upon feeding, the Wisdom damage is cured, and hopefully you didn't cause too much destruction and death getting it.

Contributor

Vampires aren't a terrible choice, and really, as long as all the PCs are starting off as vampires - thus starting at the same baseline - this is really little different then starting your campaign off at 5th level instead of 1st. You'll need to account for the PCs' unusual weaknesses and maybe even dance around those a bit if you're going to keep the game fun and the PCs feeling potent, but that shouldn't be too much trouble.

One of my first games was actually like this. I started roleplaying as a player in a friends Vampire game, but I thought the world was boring, so we migrated our game to the Forgotten Realms (I'm laughing remembering this). And we couldn't just start a 1st level, so my character was like a 15th level vampire dark naga - what can I say, we were like 14. I suspect you'll have the breaks on a "WAHOO!" a little harder then my GM did back in the '90s.

Nostalgia aside. If you're looking for cool plots or macguffins for your campaign - shameless plug - check out Rule of Fear in a few months here. While there are NO rules for playing evil characters or undead or anything like that, there are tons of new villains and bad guy bigwigs. If the PCs want to go straight hunt humans, drink blood evil, I'd suggest looking at Luvik Seirvage, vampire lord of Caliphas. Alternatively, if you like playing with shades of gray a bit more - which I'm all about - check out Conte Ristomaur Tiriac, a potent vampire who's searching for a cure for vampirism so he can die as a human and be reunited with his lost love. Or, there's something weird going on at the fortress of the nosferatu Viscount Galdyce, the PCs might be that something as they help to restore the legendary savage vampire.

Lots and lots of options here... and that's just in Ustalav. I might also suggest graveknights from PF #26. There's even a cursed group of graveknight Hellknights on the Nidal/Cheliax border, which might be fun to explore.

Contributor

Oh, and duh, Bestiary 2 has dhampirs as a CR 1/2 humanoid race, which makes them just as valid starting characters as orcs or lizardfolk. They're a great way to have vampire characters without reworking your whole campaign to account for characters that don't play nice with the game's humanoid-centric assumptions.


F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

Vampires aren't a terrible choice, and really, as long as all the PCs are starting off as vampires - thus starting at the same baseline - this is really little different then starting your campaign off at 5th level instead of 1st. You'll need to account for the PCs' unusual weaknesses and maybe even dance around those a bit if you're going to keep the game fun and the PCs feeling potent, but that shouldn't be too much trouble.

One of my first games was actually like this. I started roleplaying as a player in a friends Vampire game, but I thought the world was boring, so we migrated our game to the Forgotten Realms (I'm laughing remembering this). And we couldn't just start a 1st level, so my character was like a 15th level vampire dark naga - what can I say, we were like 14. I suspect you'll have the breaks on a "WAHOO!" a little harder then my GM did back in the '90s.

Nostalgia aside. If you're looking for cool plots or macguffins for your campaign - shameless plug - check out Rule of Fear in a few months here. While there are NO rules for playing evil characters or undead or anything like that, there are tons of new villains and bad guy bigwigs. If the PCs want to go straight hunt humans, drink blood evil, I'd suggest looking at Luvik Seirvage, vampire lord of Caliphas. Alternatively, if you like playing with shades of gray a bit more - which I'm all about - check out Conte Ristomaur Tiriac, a potent vampire who's searching for a cure for vampirism so he can die as a human and be reunited with his lost love. Or, there's something weird going on at the fortress of the nosferatu Viscount Galdyce, the PCs might be that something as they help to restore the legendary savage vampire.

Lots and lots of options here... and that's just in Ustalav. I might also suggest graveknights from PF #26. There's even a cursed group of graveknight Hellknights on the Nidal/Cheliax border,...

Wow, surprised to get a message from one of the people who worked on the published campaign I'm running on line, Curse of the Crimson Throne. Plus I've been trying to convert the monsters, bit of a pain.

Anyway fanboyism aside, I origonally had the idea of vampires, however this idea is in a embyro stage so I have no set plans or anything and have been loving the input I've been getting from everyone. Makes me laugh being a vampire dark nega. I have no idea how that would work and just thinking about attempting to run that as a character makes my head hurt.

I do admit the whole "Working for the Whispering Tyrant" thing has me going.

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:


Oh, and duh, Bestiary 2 has dhampirs as a CR 1/2 humanoid race, which makes them just as valid starting characters as orcs or lizardfolk. They're a great way to have vampire characters without reworking your whole campaign to account for characters that don't play nice with the game's humanoid-centric assumptions.

yeah, Dhampires do interest me that if I get the bestiary 2 and find some certain characteristics I could have the group easily infiltraite somewhere in the living human world. That's the only drawback I have to using vampires is the whole sensitivity to light thing and it would end up somewhat like Fright Night, however in a world where everyone knows and believes in vampires as they truely existic. The whole hiding in sunlight and moving around with their own coffin might give them too much luggage.

I remember seeing Dhampires mentioned as a footnote on the page of Vampire on d20pfsrd. I need to get in touch with the guys again to find out how's covering what on the release of Bestiary 2.

As I've said before I'll need the campaign guide to look through and have a real solid idea before committing to the idea, but I do like what I've heard so far.


Derek Vande Brake wrote:
If you don't mind a little backwards-looking rules, Libris Mortis from 3.5 had excellent rules on undead hunger - basically, if you don't eat you have to make a Will save or take Wisdom damage, and if you hit 0 wisdom you basically turn into a mindless monster that cares for nothing but getting food. Upon feeding, the Wisdom damage is cured, and hopefully you didn't cause too much destruction and death getting it.

Ahh I have that very PDF. Hmm...interesting. I really like the idea of wisdom damage and if wisdom is 0 they go basserk and start tearing open people's throats, drinking blood and all that nasty stuff in public. Kinda reminds me of the ending scene in "An american Werewolf in London" where it goes on a rampage out of the porn movie theatre.


Tzimiscedracul wrote:

If the OP doesn't mind updating some rules, the Green Ronin's book Fang & Fury has a variant class of vampires that works great as a player's characater race.

The product is OoP, but the PDF is still for sale: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Fang+%26+ Fury&x=0&y=0&quicksearch=1&search_filter=&filters=& search_free=&search_in_description=1&search_in_author=1&search_ in_artist=1

Sounds interesting. Bit of work, but it sounds like ot could be very good.


The important thing to keep in mind is that some players may use the excuse that since they're vampires they can slaughter everything they come across. I say may because I don't know your players at all so I could be wrong. Try to keep them focused on the goal so that they don't pick fights at every opportunity.

Silver Crusade

Since this thread is very near to the topic i was going to post about, I think I'll chime in with an idea I had this morning. ETERNIA, thats right a masters of the universe setting.

I started thinking about it and its a brilliant fantasy setting, then I thought no, there has to be one already. Well sorry to hijack your thread but I had the idea and it burned inside me until sharing it. Thank you for letting me do that.

Shadow Lodge

Paizo went for a more Lovecraftian flavor for it's ghouls. They stopped short of removing it's undead status, however.


Realsyntax wrote:

Since this thread is very near to the topic i was going to post about, I think I'll chime in with an idea I had this morning. ETERNIA, thats right a masters of the universe setting.

I started thinking about it and its a brilliant fantasy setting, then I thought no, there has to be one already. Well sorry to hijack your thread but I had the idea and it burned inside me until sharing it. Thank you for letting me do that.

Interesting idea, however I usually perfer my own creation or one of the adventure paths. Afterall not everything can be transplated into a game like how would Many Faces work? I apologise if that statement sounds stupid, but I really havn't watched the TV series in years.

Kthulhu wrote:
Paizo went for a more Lovecraftian flavor for it's ghouls. They stopped short of removing it's undead status, however.

Can't say I've read much lovecraft, but I do see how they're more intelligent and not simply a upgraded zombie. Liking the feel of Ghoul more and more really.

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