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Set wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

Here's a head scratcher-

How powerful are people from Daxam supposed to be in relation to people from Krypton? I don't think it's 1 to 1- someone's got to be stronger, if only slightly.

Pretty much the same. With the exception of the kryptonite / lead thing, the two races are interchangeable.

Similarly, Ultra Boy and Silver Age Star Boy (when he had all the powers of Superboy + 'electrical vision') are supposed to also have been as strong as classic Superboy.

In any comic appearance, Superboy/man is going to outclass anyone who isn't Superboy/man, because he's generally the marquee character (barring Validus, Superboy Prime, Doomsday, etc.).

While, technically, a Daxamite is just as strong as a Kryptonian, if Superman ever ends up in a fist-fight with a Daxamite, he'll win in the end, because the title of the book will be Superman, not 'Some Dude From Daxam.' In-story rationales could be that he's had a lot longer to acclimate to his powers, and uses them better, he's had decades to absorb solar energy, he's more skilled, he's more determined, etc. but the ultimate deciding factor will be that, next issue, it'll still say Superman on the cover, so, obviously, he can't lose.

While I disagree with the practice, I agree with your point. Still, you've given me an EXCELLENT idea/name for a new comic.


Freehold DM wrote:

God, I hate TV Tropes...

Still, I'm glad I found this thread. Hi Eileen!!!!

I'm not thinking Superboy is all that weaker than Superman. I'd be more for reducing Superman's strength by a third instead of by half to represent Superboy. I'd say Supergirl's strength is barely less, I thought it was her level of invulnerability that was significantly less than Superman's.

Hi Freehold DM, good to see you. Send me your email address again if you would. I want to show you how the Combat chapter turned out. I was reallly happy about it and being combat, its kinda the nuts and bolts of the game.

I'm agreeing that Superboy should be about 2/3 the strength of Superman. I'd say that's probably realistic based off of a mid-teen boy and a man in his early 30's.


I have a question, How different is M&M 2E vs. 3E?


About as different as Pathfinder is from 3.5.


P.H. Dungeon wrote:
About as different as Pathfinder is from 3.5.

Which is to say "Not as different as you might think, but significantly changed enough from the previous edition that you would do yourself a favor by reading it all the way through before playing."

Which is what I found out when I picked up DC Heroes and went "Wait... eight stats now?"


How would someone do a psychic surgery or mental transform or whatever name you want to give it? I know you would use Affliction, but how can you make it permanent, and how would you write it up?

And thank you P. H. Dungeon and jemstone for your answers.


Lorm Dragonheart wrote:

How would someone do a psychic surgery or mental transform or whatever name you want to give it? I know you would use Affliction, but how can you make it permanent, and how would you write it up?

And thank you P. H. Dungeon and jemstone for your answers.

You're welcome!

As to the making it permanent... Hm.

Usually, this sort of thing is best left in the realm of GM-Fiat and even then, relegated to Villains that are "in it for the long haul" or Heroes who have "lost their way."

Case in point - Zatanna messing with Doctor Light (the original villain) to render him impotent and foolhardy, rather than the cunning and dangerous villain he'd supposedly been before.

Second case in point - Deathstroke turning various members of the Teen Titans against their former teammates so intensely that the conditioning lasts beyond the grave.

This sort of thing is not something I would allow in any sort of normal game session. However, for game-changing events, allowing a normal Telepathic Affliction power to become "permanent and game-changing" by, say, having every PC involved with the issue sacrifice all of their Hero Points (and possibly some of their character points - they are HEROES, after all, and they can't be Heroes if they are completely screwing some poor shlub over - even if that shlub is Lex Luthor) and take a new complication/motivation like "Dark Secret" or what-have-you.

I guess I'm saying that I wouldn't normally allow that in game. If you did allow it in game, move the time delay on the effect's end-time down a huge amount. Like, Rank 20, for instance. At the point something is Rank 20 on its "power half-life," you're basically looking at it lasting forever, anyway.


jemstone wrote:
Lorm Dragonheart wrote:

How would someone do a psychic surgery or mental transform or whatever name you want to give it? I know you would use Affliction, but how can you make it permanent, and how would you write it up?

And thank you P. H. Dungeon and jemstone for your answers.

You're welcome!

As to the making it permanent... Hm.

Usually, this sort of thing is best left in the realm of GM-Fiat and even then, relegated to Villains that are "in it for the long haul" or Heroes who have "lost their way."

Case in point - Zatanna messing with Doctor Light (the original villain) to render him impotent and foolhardy, rather than the cunning and dangerous villain he'd supposedly been before.

Second case in point - Deathstroke turning various members of the Teen Titans against their former teammates so intensely that the conditioning lasts beyond the grave.

This sort of thing is not something I would allow in any sort of normal game session. However, for game-changing events, allowing a normal Telepathic Affliction power to become "permanent and game-changing" by, say, having every PC involved with the issue sacrifice all of their Hero Points (and possibly some of their character points - they are HEROES, after all, and they can't be Heroes if they are completely screwing some poor shlub over - even if that shlub is Lex Luthor) and take a new complication/motivation like "Dark Secret" or what-have-you.

I guess I'm saying that I wouldn't normally allow that in game. If you did allow it in game, move the time delay on the effect's end-time down a huge amount. Like, Rank 20, for instance. At the point something is Rank 20 on its "power half-life," you're basically looking at it lasting forever, anyway.

I was thinking of it for a major villian messing with the heroes npc's I am talkig about a pl 18 villian who works behind the scenes is behind most of the plots the heroes are dealing with. The will not face her for a long time, the heroes being pl 10.


Lorm Dragonheart wrote:


I was thinking of it for a major villian messing with the heroes npc's I am talkig about a pl 18 villian who works behind the scenes is behind most of the plots the heroes are dealing with. The will not face her for a long time, the heroes being pl...

Okay, so. I'm assuming that when you say "the heroes npc's" you're referring to their dependents, allies, and secret ID hooks and not solely their PL10 villains.

Keep in mind that messing with the NPC-plot hooks for the Heroes is always a touch-and-go issue. This is especially true of favored NPC's, such as the Dependent NPC (Aunt May, Mary Jane, Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane) of the heroes. Players will support, by and large, plots involving those characters, and will even investigate "strange behaviors" to great ends - but actually going in and messing with the dependent npc's of the heroes leads to all manner of bad blood, in my experience.

Also, it can call all sorts of questions up about exactly what sort of influence the villain has over the NPC's, as well as the villain's motivation.

If you have a PL18 Mastermind Villain behind the scenes, messing with the heroes at every turn, the question then becomes "Why?"

What is so special about these PC's that one villain is so set on messing with them, manipulating them, and potentially even guiding them through what they're doing?

And why, for example, if the Villain has access to the Hero's NPC's, is the villain just simply not killing them in their sleep?

"Thanks for the warm milk, Linda," Said Wally West. "I'll just go to slee.... ACK! MILK! POISONED!" -thud-

The thing with Master Villains is that they often get their work done without firing a shot - and they often have to do it by way of manipulation and coercion. If you're looking to have a mastermind villain that does his or her "special trick" of mind control by way of actually going in to the victim's mind and slicing portions of their personality to create a loyal minion, then you're going to be dealing with a very non-traditional Mastermind.

And that in and of itself might be a clue for your players, when they start getting brain scans of the bad guys they've been mucking with, only to find that each one of them shows similar neural scarring....


I am a long time Champions player and GM, Jemstone. As the GM, it is your job to mess with the DNPC's. Their job was to get in trouble and the heroes' job to help them out of the jam. Look at Lois Lane in the old Superman comics and cartoons. She was always getting captured and Superman always had to rescue her.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Lorm Dragonheart wrote:
I am a long time Champions player and GM, Jemstone. As the GM, it is your job to mess with the DNPC's. Their job was to get in trouble and the heroes' job to help them out of the jam. Look at Lois Lane in the old Superman comics and cartoons. She was always getting captured and Superman always had to rescue her.

long long champions player myself. "a disadvantage that isn't really a disadvantage isn't worth any points!" hehe

As a memory triggered from your lois lane comment, i remember a scene in one of the justice league cartoons on a few years ago. Miss Lane was on an airplane flying to her next location for investigation, and it was hijacked by terrorists. As the 3 guys were making their way down the aisles with their guns, one of them stopped by her and recognized her.

"hey...aren't you Lois Lane?"
"yes, that's me."
"Lois Lane the reporter?"
"yes..."
"the same Lois Lane that's always being rescued by Superman?"
*big smile/smirk* "yes..."
*red/blue streak outside the plane window.*
...
...
"oh damn."


Rathendar wrote:
EileenProphetofIstus wrote:
So is this the weight for 12 ktons or do I have to take 2 million and multiply it by 12 for a total of 24 million pounds?

ah my bad. basic math reading fail.

in short, yes. x12.

12,000 ton [metric] = 26,455,471.462 pound

Keep in mind, in the M&M/DCA game, characters can temporarily push their stats higher via Extra Effort and/or Hero Points. I don't have the rulebook in front of me, but if Supes has a 19 STR, he can bump that up to a 20, for a few seconds, at least.


ziltmilt wrote:
Rathendar wrote:
EileenProphetofIstus wrote:
So is this the weight for 12 ktons or do I have to take 2 million and multiply it by 12 for a total of 24 million pounds?

ah my bad. basic math reading fail.

in short, yes. x12.

12,000 ton [metric] = 26,455,471.462 pound

Keep in mind, in the M&M/DCA game, characters can temporarily push their stats higher via Extra Effort and/or Hero Points. I don't have the rulebook in front of me, but if Supes has a 19 STR, he can bump that up to a 20, for a few seconds, at least.

I agree, I have a rule for temparily raising a character or NPC's powers category. Within the Powers chapter there are rules for modifiying one's power, the challenge score of an opponent, as well as other alterations for powers. These alterations fall under "Power Control." One of these is Power Strain.

Power Strain: The character strains oneself beyond belief and the individual is able to momentarily increase their power category. For each category the power is increased, it requires 2 additional actions to be spent. Once this time has elapsed, the individual attempts a power control roll and must equal or exceed the challenge score shown below. The Representing Player or Cosmos Master rolls a d20 and adds their characters Concentration category to the result.

+1: Requires a challenge score of 20; Cost in Hero or Vile Points: 5
+2: Requires a challenge score of 25. Cost in Hero or Vile Points: 10
+3: Requires a challenge score of 30. Cost in Hero or Vile Points: 15

If the total equals or exceeds the challenge score, the character succeeds and the category increase takes place for the remainder of the action scene and range, volume as well as other factors are increased as per the power's description. If the die roll is less than the challenge score, the character fails and no alterations to their power are made.

I threw this rule in primarily to explain how a Legionnaire could suddenly do something that was normally way out of their league to do. Essentially, it helps mimics the comics which often suffer from more than one author and therefore appear to be a yo-yo in how strong, powerful, or capable they are in their powers.


Lorm Dragonheart wrote:
I am a long time Champions player and GM, Jemstone. As the GM, it is your job to mess with the DNPC's. Their job was to get in trouble and the heroes' job to help them out of the jam. Look at Lois Lane in the old Superman comics and cartoons. She was always getting captured and Superman always had to rescue her.

I've been running and playing Champions since it was a series of poorly typeset books with adverts inside of Foxbat asking for experience points. I'm well aware of the mannerisms and methods of mucking about with the Player Character's lives through the manipulation and endangerment of DNPC's. Trust me. ;)

My point is that if you're endangering and manipulating the DNPC's, to a point, your players will be cool with it.

But when you start enacting permanently effective psychic surgery on those same DNPC's, you're going to end up with some pretty ticked off players. I've seen it happen, and while I am not saying it's impossible, it'd certainly be a tough road to hoe.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

jemstone wrote:

<snip>

My point is that if you're endangering and manipulating the DNPC's, to a point, your players will be cool with it.

But when you start enacting permanently effective psychic surgery on those same DNPC's, you're going to end up with some pretty ticked off players. I've seen it happen, and while I am not saying it's impossible, it'd certainly be a tough road to hoe.

To keep with the universe mentioned, think of Jean Loring in Identity Crisis, or (to a slightly different extent) Max Lord's face heal turn. both were shocking, but wouldn't translate as readily into an RPG.

Now pulling a 'Blackest Night' on dead DNPCs is perfectly fair, as is going after the DNPC with something non-related. With the JL reference above, it wasn't "Let's put Lois Lane in jeopardy" plans. It was "Let's rob the plane! Wait, who's on board?"

To switch universes, remember one of the complaints about OMD and that mess was Peter's unmasking put all his family in danger. Going after Franklin Richards seems an easy way to get at the FF, but they know this. If the character maintains a secret identity, making MJ caught in friendly fire is fine, Doc Oc targeting her specifically to get to Spiderman, not so much.


Matthew Morris wrote:
jemstone wrote:

<snip>

My point is that if you're endangering and manipulating the DNPC's, to a point, your players will be cool with it.

But when you start enacting permanently effective psychic surgery on those same DNPC's, you're going to end up with some pretty ticked off players. I've seen it happen, and while I am not saying it's impossible, it'd certainly be a tough road to hoe.

To keep with the universe mentioned, think of Jean Loring in Identity Crisis, or (to a slightly different extent) Max Lord's face heal turn. both were shocking, but wouldn't translate as readily into an RPG.

Now pulling a 'Blackest Night' on dead DNPCs is perfectly fair, as is going after the DNPC with something non-related. With the JL reference above, it wasn't "Let's put Lois Lane in jeopardy" plans. It was "Let's rob the plane! Wait, who's on board?"

To switch universes, remember one of the complaints about OMD and that mess was Peter's unmasking put all his family in danger. Going after Franklin Richards seems an easy way to get at the FF, but they know this. If the character maintains a secret identity, making MJ caught in friendly fire is fine, Doc Oc targeting her specifically to get to Spiderman, not so much.

Mr. Morris makes my point much more eloquently than I had been able to.

A hapless DNPC getting caught up in a bank robbery a-la "Danger Prone Daphne" from Scooby Doo, or Jimmy "Can't Catch A Break" Olsen from Superman - that's one thing.

To have a villain specifically target the DNPC's of supposedly secret-ID'd Heroes... that's gonna take some explanation and a whole lot of ruffled feathers.


Some heroes are easier to find out their secret id then others. The first time we meet Ras-Al Ghul (I hope I spell that right.) is in the Bat Cave. Some villians' power is control of people. I cannot think of specific DC villians, but I can of Marvel, i.e. The Purple Man and Mandril. In Daredevil, The Purple Man controlled Daredevil's friends and colleagues. Mandril could control whole armies of women, and did including heroes' npc's. It is a legitimate storyline in comics and therefore a legitiment plot in comic based rollplaying games.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Lorm Dragonheart wrote:
Some heroes are easier to find out their secret id then others. The first time we meet Ras-Al Ghul (I hope I spell that right.) is in the Bat Cave. Some villians' power is control of people. I cannot think of specific DC villians, but I can of Marvel, i.e. The Purple Man and Mandril. In Daredevil, The Purple Man controlled Daredevil's friends and colleagues. Mandril could control whole armies of women, and did including heroes' npc's. It is a legitimate storyline in comics and therefore a legitiment plot in comic based rollplaying games.

Ra's is a special case, I'd argue. Even then, his manipulations of Batman are to select an heir, not crush Batman's skull. (Now, when he does go after Tim like that, he does it in a way that Tim or Dick could handle, but Bruce would have been screwed.)

I chose Jean Loring for the example because her suddenly going psycho and her actions were one of the criticisms of Identity Crisis. It's jarring enough in a comic, it would likely give howls of indignation in a RPG, because there's no hint before hand.

Now if the DNPC starts doing things that hint her mind's been tampered with, then it gives the PCs a chance to react. Of course some of the things can appear to be the DM being a richard.

Spoiler:
"I use my superspeed to change into my "White Streak!" costume."

"Ok, you're shocked to find your outfit's pink."

*bad guys defeated. our embarressed hero returns home."

"Honey, why is my supersuit PINK?"

"Oh, i'm sorry dear, I must have washed something red with it."

Along those lines, you drop hints like the Batmobile needs an oil change, MJ's lethargic about modling, etc. Suddenly the DNPC is *not* doing the tasks the hero relies on.

Zeb Killgrave's power isn't subtle IIRC (though more subtle than his daughter Kara) And Mandril's powers require proximity, and don't make the person a zombie.

Batman may find out that Alfred spiked his bat-coffee with LSD when it hits him, but that's so we the reader don't outsmart Batman. In an RPG, the players have to have hints, even if they don't put things together until after the fact.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

jemstone wrote:
To have a villain specifically target the DNPC's of supposedly secret-ID'd Heroes... that's gonna take some explanation and a whole lot of ruffled feathers.

Perhaps. DNPC and Secret Identity are two different things, though. Everybody who's ever had lunch with the Avengers knows that Jarvis is their butler, and he can be attacked for that connection without anyone knowing that Tony Stark is Iron Man.

Over at DC, Jimmy is "Superman's Pal" and has a signal watch. You don't even have to suspect Superman has a secret identity to go after Jimmy. Of course, deliberately targetting the best friend of the strongest guy on the planet might strike some people as a poor criminal career choice.

Likewise with Batman and James Gordon or Wonder Woman and Etta Trevor.


I never said I wouldn't give the players clues and hints of what is going on, but the villian in the story is a greater succubus, messing with and destroying lives is what she does. As for Mandril, I agree that proximity is necessary originally, but his power was addictive, and they wanted to serve him. His pheromones would spread through the air ducts of his base, so that everyone in the base was exposed.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Lorm Dragonheart wrote:
I never said I wouldn't give the players clues and hints of what is going on, but the villian in the story is a greater succubus, messing with and destroying lives is what she does. As for Mandril, I agree that proximity is necessary originally, but his power was addictive, and they wanted to serve him. His pheromones would spread through the air ducts of his base, so that everyone in the base was exposed.

Sorry I misunderstood the intent of your post. I was worried you were falling in the old trap (as I have in the past) of springing something on the PCs w/o warning because it worked in a book :-)

That said, I don't see any problem playing 'the long game' as a GM. Have ol' Zeb escape from prison in like the third session, start dropping hints in the 6th, and then in the 12th he strikes. I am a fan of Claremont and PAD after all ;-)


Chris Mortika wrote:
jemstone wrote:
To have a villain specifically target the DNPC's of supposedly secret-ID'd Heroes... that's gonna take some explanation and a whole lot of ruffled feathers.

Perhaps. DNPC and Secret Identity are two different things, though. Everybody who's ever had lunch with the Avengers knows that Jarvis is their butler, and he can be attacked for that connection without anyone knowing that Tony Stark is Iron Man.

Over at DC, Jimmy is "Superman's Pal" and has a signal watch. You don't even have to suspect Superman has a secret identity to go after Jimmy. Of course, deliberately targetting the best friend of the strongest guy on the planet might strike some people as a poor criminal career choice.

Likewise with Batman and James Gordon or Wonder Woman and Etta Trevor.

I agree with everything you stated, and to continue on with the Killgrave, The Purple Man, he did not know Daredevil's id, just that they were associated with him.

DNPC and Secret ID are completely separate ideas. Look how long Lois Lane tried to find out Superman's id. That did not make her less of a DNPC. She still was one after she found out. The most dangerous time is after a villian finds out the id, like Spider-man and the Green Goblin, when the Green Goblin killed Gwen Stacy.


Ok, now I;m tryng to stat out Micro-scopic Vision for a few Legionnaires. I looked under Superman and his entry says Super-Senses, then it lists all his different powers that are vision related, and he's given Micro-Vision/4. Yet when I try and look up Micro-vision I can't find it anywhere. Now I don't really know the game system so can anyone tell me how far Micro-vision/4 allows him to see.

Also if I'm not mistaken, I think Superboy has used his Microscopic Vision from other planets and looked down on earth to see if his fellow Legionnaires were safe. The only problem is they are in a building which would require his X-Ray Vision. Is he capable of combining these visions in order to see millions or billions of miles away and through the walls of a building?


EileenProphetofIstus wrote:

Ok, now I;m tryng to stat out Micro-scopic Vision for a few Legionnaires. I looked under Superman and his entry says Super-Senses, then it lists all his different powers that are vision related, and he's given Micro-Vision/4. Yet when I try and look up Micro-vision I can't find it anywhere. Now I don't really know the game system so can anyone tell me how far Micro-vision/4 allows him to see.

Also if I'm not mistaken, I think Superboy has used his Microscopic Vision from other planets and looked down on earth to see if his fellow Legionnaires were safe. The only problem is they are in a building which would require his X-Ray Vision. Is he capable of combining these visions in order to see millions or billions of miles away and through the walls of a building?

I'm sure he is, but I think that was something they tossed into the story just to include the Legionnaires. I've seen better examples of the power combo in recent years, especially when he had to use his heat vision on a specific point that was a few miles away, or when he fought that guy whose brain he had to sear off a part of.


Freehold DM wrote:
EileenProphetofIstus wrote:

Ok, now I;m tryng to stat out Micro-scopic Vision for a few Legionnaires. I looked under Superman and his entry says Super-Senses, then it lists all his different powers that are vision related, and he's given Micro-Vision/4. Yet when I try and look up Micro-vision I can't find it anywhere. Now I don't really know the game system so can anyone tell me how far Micro-vision/4 allows him to see.

Also if I'm not mistaken, I think Superboy has used his Microscopic Vision from other planets and looked down on earth to see if his fellow Legionnaires were safe. The only problem is they are in a building which would require his X-Ray Vision. Is he capable of combining these visions in order to see millions or billions of miles away and through the walls of a building?

I'm sure he is, but I think that was something they tossed into the story just to include the Legionnaires. I've seen better examples of the power combo in recent years, especially when he had to use his heat vision on a specific point that was a few miles away, or when he fought that guy whose brain he had to sear off a part of.

I could write up a power surge (feat) that enables him to do it perform those actions that allowed a character to do something WAY over what they normally do, you know those types of actions that once in a great while the author threw in and many readers would shake their head at because the character normally can't pull something off that is so powerful. It could also be written as a variation of the way he can use his vision powers and thus it falls into his normal array of powers. Which do you reccomend?


EileenProphetofIstus wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
EileenProphetofIstus wrote:

Ok, now I;m tryng to stat out Micro-scopic Vision for a few Legionnaires. I looked under Superman and his entry says Super-Senses, then it lists all his different powers that are vision related, and he's given Micro-Vision/4. Yet when I try and look up Micro-vision I can't find it anywhere. Now I don't really know the game system so can anyone tell me how far Micro-vision/4 allows him to see.

Also if I'm not mistaken, I think Superboy has used his Microscopic Vision from other planets and looked down on earth to see if his fellow Legionnaires were safe. The only problem is they are in a building which would require his X-Ray Vision. Is he capable of combining these visions in order to see millions or billions of miles away and through the walls of a building?

I'm sure he is, but I think that was something they tossed into the story just to include the Legionnaires. I've seen better examples of the power combo in recent years, especially when he had to use his heat vision on a specific point that was a few miles away, or when he fought that guy whose brain he had to sear off a part of.
I could write up a power surge (feat) that enables him to do it perform those actions that allowed a character to do something WAY over what they normally do, you know those types of actions that once in a great while the author threw in and many readers would shake their head at because the character normally can't pull something off that is so powerful. It could also be written as a variation of the way he can use his vision powers and thus it falls into his normal array of powers. Which do you reccomend?

It all depends on how often you want this power to be used.

I would be all for a Force-Points type system where you spend a point and get a MAJOR bonus to something(not like Action/Hero Points) so that once in a great while, you could pull something like that off. If you want to see it more often, then just keep the game as is, and have it be powers that are used round after round after round(for example, 1st round- Telescopic Vision[activiating power]; 2nd round- Perceiving the area you want to hit[roll to see if he can find the area, if not then he keeps looking for it until he sees it]; 3rd round- Using Heat Vision[activating another power] with a sizable bonus due to the use of powers on the first round). Just because Superman makes something look easy doesn't mean it is...even for him.


I'm sure he is, but I think that was something they tossed into the story just to include the Legionnaires. I've seen better examples of the power combo in recent years, especially when he had to use his heat vision on a specific point that was a few miles away, or when he fought that guy whose brain he had to sear off a part of. I could write up a power surge (feat) that enables him to do it perform those actions that allowed a character to do something WAY over what they normally do, you know those types of actions that once in a great while the author threw in and many readers would shake their head at because the character normally can't pull something off that is so powerful. It could also be written as a variation of the way he can use his vision powers and thus it falls into his normal array of powers. Which do you reccomend?

It all depends on how often you want this power to be used.

I would be all for a Force-Points type system where you spend a point and get a MAJOR bonus to something(not like Action/Hero Points) so that once in a great while, you could pull something like that off. If you want to see it more often, then...

I've decided to make it a rare occurance which in my rules is where the Power Control rules are employed. This section enables the character to spend Hero or Vile points to alter a power in some way, then roll against a challenge score to succeed and spend Hero or Vile points to initiatite the action. These can range from simple things like extending range, adding a die to damage, to the more extreme such as what were discussing. The harder the action the higher the challenge score and the cost in Hero and Vile Points. Characters do not have alot of these points in storage so it actually is going to be a pretty difficult thing to do, at least when it comes to trying something this extreme. Thanks for your input Freehold DM.


Mutants and Masterminds People!

I NEED YOUR HELP!

I am gearing up for a game which gets going 20 years after a massive "balance wave" has swept the Earth and torn away all super powers, mutations, magic, you name it. If it's Supra-Normal, it no longer functions. The world has been without power for two decades, and has at last come to terms with being what amounts to normal, every day Earth.

Of course, this means the time is ripe for new heroes with new powers to emerge.

My goal in the game is to have all the PC's start as 0-Stat, 15 points in Skills and reasonable Advantages, PL 1 characters, then tack another 9 PL of points onto them in the form of templates.

I am, however, having a DEVIL of a time getting the in-book templates to conform to this.

What I need to do is find a way to make each Template balance out such that, at PL 10, they all have the same number of skill points and non-power advantages available.

Basically, I want to build these characters as "Every Day Heroes" - the Soldier, the Teacher, the Scientist, the Philanthropist, etc - and give them, say, 8 points in skills and 7 in Advantages, then hand them duly modified base templates out of the book when they get their powers.

The Philanthropist, for instance, should have 5 points in Benefit (Billionaire) and another two in reasonable advantages chosen by the Player.

The Teacher should have several ranks in Expertise, among other things.

Would any of you be able to throw me a hand, here?

I would be ever so grateful, and be willing to give you a cool appearance as an NPC in my game, should you choose.

Thanks in advance!


Anyone? Bueller?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Jemstone, I don't know an easy way to do this, but I am not the mathmagician many of the other folks are around here.

If I were running this game, I would do one of two things:

1. Ditch the templates entirely and say at least X number of points needs to be distributed to skills and feats (50 points, or whatever), and otherwise let the players build their characters as they will as long as they stick to the concept.

2. Take the templates and re-build them myself to the concepts in mind, redistributing points as need be, and then just pass out the pregenerated characters.


DeathQuaker wrote:

Jemstone, I don't know an easy way to do this, but I am not the mathmagician many of the other folks are around here.

If I were running this game, I would do one of two things:

1. Ditch the templates entirely and say at least X number of points needs to be distributed to skills and feats (50 points, or whatever), and otherwise let the players build their characters as they will as long as they stick to the concept.

2. Take the templates and re-build them myself to the concepts in mind, redistributing points as need be, and then just pass out the pregenerated characters.

Idea 1 won't work with either of my groups, as none of them have the game book, and both groups are EXTREMELY resistant to change, or making characters in a game that they've never played before. Once I get them playing, they'll be fine, but crossing that first hurdle is going to be a problem.

Idea 2 is what I'm leaning toward. It's just a massive wall of work to overcome - a higher entry point for making pregens than I'm normally comfortable with, but I think if I can get over my initial number-shock I should be ok.


Even though my Legion game was started almost 3 years ago, its really bugging me that the DC game is so similar. Sure, there's is professionally done by crew of people with bigger and badder computers, slicker paper, hardcover, set coffee breaks, etc. but still....It shouldn't bug me but it does! I guess its primarly because for those familiar with the DC game, my starts to look like a "Borrowed" version.

Sure, there are only so many different ways to do things from a mechanic point of view and we have developed games into sort of a creation of their own where once broken down, they really aren't all that different mechanically anyway.

It's isn't like when someone first thought of having a "skill" or "non-weapon proficiency" and we felt the industry shake. Now it rarely rattles and that doesn't happen all that often anymore. Perhaps we've reached a point where the final development has reached its pinnacle. Perhaps in twenty years (providing pen and paper were still around which I doubt) someone will look back and say "Wow, those game mechanics people have been using are so faulty, here's a better way to DO EVERYTHING! And they will be right, thus the earth quakes once again. Perhaps Not!

Anyway to get to the point....so I'm re-writing, fine tuning etc. my game. My original presentation for powers was similar to what we have for spells in gaming. One good description, one particular effect; then move on to the next variation of that power. One description, covers in detail how that one event or action works. It's tons of writing but I enjoy it.

Then as I persuse the DC game taking a glance at their efforts I think, "Wow" they took a short cut, kinda lazy, seems to me they just want the player to combine a few words (descriptors), have certain factors in place such as range, and essentially combine th processes to make your character's power. Now I haven't played the game (don't intend to) but I ended up kinda admiring their short hand version.

A short cut? Yes, at least from what I got out of it. So do the players eventually write up how their powers work once they agree on them with the game master? Do they keep changing in mid game based on what the action is and how the power is used....in other words do they want you to pretty much WING IT?

The nice part....it looks like a lot less work when it comes to a development and writing point of view.

I want my game to move at a much faster pace when it comes to writing and developing; but if I change in mid-stream...aren't I pretty much just ripping it off even though my mechanics are different....though as mentioned at the beginning...perhaps not as much....after all...who's going to invent the next wheel?

Food for thought? Actually, no, I don't have food...at least not for you anyway. No pennies for your thoughts either...I'm on a limited income.

So what do you think?


I'm looking at the DC Adventures game Hero's Handbook (2010 version of their game) and am looking for rules that cover something like knock back. If they exist I cannot find them. Are there no rules for allowing Superman (for example) to punch someone across several city blocks or into a brick wall?


EileenProphetofIstus wrote:
I'm looking at the DC Adventures game Hero's Handbook (2010 version of their game) and am looking for rules that cover something like knock back. If they exist I cannot find them. Are there no rules for allowing Superman (for example) to punch someone across several city blocks or into a brick wall?

HI EILEEN! !


Freehold DM wrote:
EileenProphetofIstus wrote:
I'm looking at the DC Adventures game Hero's Handbook (2010 version of their game) and am looking for rules that cover something like knock back. If they exist I cannot find them. Are there no rules for allowing Superman (for example) to punch someone across several city blocks or into a brick wall?
HI EILEEN! !

Always great to see you, your still a Legion fan I hope!


I hope to have a Legion flight ring before long.


I already have mine. Metal, paid $50.00 free shipping, e-bay. I wish it fit though. Have bought several action figures and the clubhouse too and have the hero-clix. Comic collection is complete. Of coarse now I live in a cardboard box.

Yes, you definitely need to get a ring... maybe yours will actually fly, mine doesn't. I jumped off the house several times before I figured that one out.


EileenProphetofIstus wrote:
I'm looking at the DC Adventures game Hero's Handbook (2010 version of their game) and am looking for rules that cover something like knock back. If they exist I cannot find them. Are there no rules for allowing Superman (for example) to punch someone across several city blocks or into a brick wall?

Rules for knockback are in the Gamemasters Guide, pp. 192-193. Basically you subtract the target's toughness from the damage to get the knockback distance. If there's an object in the way, both the character and the object take damage from the impact, and if that damages the object enough to put a hole in it, the character keeps going for the remainder of the distance.

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