I picked up the new DC Adventures Hero's Handbook and they list a table for measurements of mass, time, distance and volume. The game shows Superman at a strength of 19 which enables him to lift 12 ktons, what would this be in pounds (show me the calculation please)
I picked up the new DC Adventures Hero's Handbook and they list a table for measurements of mass, time, distance and volume. The game shows Superman at a strength of 19 which enables him to lift 12 ktons, what would this be in pounds (show me the calculation please)
Kilo = 1000.
1 ton [metric] = 2,204.6226218 pounds.
x 1000 = 2,204,622.6218 pounds.
so just over 2 million pounds.
So is this the weight for 12 ktons or do I have to take 2 million and multiply it by 12 for a total of 24 million pounds?
So is this the weight for 12 ktons or do I have to take 2 million and multiply it by 12 for a total of 24 million pounds?
ah my bad. basic math reading fail.
in short, yes. x12.12,000 ton [metric] = 26,455,471.462 pound
So is this the weight for 12 ktons or do I have to take 2 million and multiply it by 12 for a total of 24 million pounds?ah my bad. basic math reading fail.
in short, yes. x12.
Ok, so this would be what Superman can lift in the new DC game, what would you reccomend for him as Superboy?
Ok, so this would be what Superman can lift in the new DC game, what would you reccomend for him as Superboy?So is this the weight for 12 ktons or do I have to take 2 million and multiply it by 12 for a total of 24 million pounds?ah my bad. basic math reading fail.
in short, yes. x12.
To better answer that i would ask if you have any of the dc games that have previously been published, such as DC heroes etc, and could tell me the strength ratings they were both listed at in one of those products.
Otherwise in a rough ballpark i would say take away 1/2 or 1/3 of it.
Well, unfortunately your answer will likely be next spring or so when Heroes and Villains 2 comes out. As a gauge, Kon-El has stats in the quick start rules:
I know its not Clark as a teenager, but its 50% of his DNA at the same physical level of development as he would have been as a teenager, with assorted modifications from the Luthor genome.
Ok, so this would be what Superman can lift in the new DC game, what would you reccomend for him as Superboy?So is this the weight for 12 ktons or do I have to take 2 million and multiply it by 12 for a total of 24 million pounds?ah my bad. basic math reading fail.
in short, yes. x12.
To better answer that i would ask if you have any of the dc games that have previously been published, such as DC heroes etc, and could tell me the strength ratings they were both listed at in one of those products.
Otherwise in a rough ballpark i would say take away 1/2 or 1/3 of it.
No I don't have a copy of any old Superboy stats. I was thinking also about half or a 3rd as well. The way he is portrayed inthe earlier Legion comics doesn't seem near as massive as Superman, at least that's my take on things. Opinion?
That was basically a similar reasoning to why i suggested the range i did Eileen.
The above PDF shows Kon-El at being able to lift 6000 tons. Again, extrapolate as you will, since he's not really Clark as a teen ager, but he's kind of close.
Well, unfortunately your answer will likely be next spring or so when Heroes and Villains 2 comes out. As a gauge, Kon-El has stats in the quick start rules:
I know its not Clark as a teenager, but its 50% of his DNA at the same physical level of development as he would have been as a teenager, with assorted modifications from the Luthor genome.
Ok if we use this a a guide, they give Kon-el a strength of 15, which allows him to lift 800 tons.
In my Legion game I had him at 163,840 lbs. which would be about 82 tons. I'm trying to get a better idea so I can alter his Strength score. In my game the catgories for lifting upper weights are:
Super: 163,840 lbs.
Galactic: 327680 lbs.
Universal: 655,360 lbs. 327.68 ttons
Godlike: 1,310,720 lbs. = 655.36 tons
Infinite: 2,621,440 lbs. = 1,310 tons
So that would put Kon-el between Godlike and Infinite
The above PDF shows Kon-El at being able to lift 6000 tons. Again, extrapolate as you will, since he's not really Clark as a teen ager, but he's kind of close.
well, that means i would probably put superboy at a midway point since 6000 tons is 6 kt. so with a range between 6kt and 12 kt, i'd give superboy 8 or 9 kt.
The above PDF shows Kon-El at being able to lift 6000 tons. Again, extrapolate as you will, since he's not really Clark as a teen ager, but he's kind of close.well, that means i would probably put superboy at a midway point since 6000 tons is 6 kt. so with a range between 6kt and 12 kt, i'd give superboy 8 or 9 kt.
Ok, so in pounds were looking at 8 kt being about 8000 tons which translates to 16,000,000 lbs.
In comparison to my categories I had him lifting 163,840 lbs, which is Super-weakling. Sounds like I should do some serious adjusting on my Strength chart. The highest I had it going was:
Infinite 2,621,440 pounds.
The above PDF shows Kon-El at being able to lift 6000 tons. Again, extrapolate as you will, since he's not really Clark as a teen ager, but he's kind of close.well, that means i would probably put superboy at a midway point since 6000 tons is 6 kt. so with a range between 6kt and 12 kt, i'd give superboy 8 or 9 kt.Ok, so in pounds were looking at 8 kt being about 8000 tons which translates to 16,000,000 lbs.
In comparison to my categories I had him lifting 163,840 lbs, which is Super-weakling. Sounds like I should do some serious adjusting on my Strength chart. The highest I had it going was:
Infinite 2,621,440 pounds.
Yeah, your system doesn't cope with the sheer extremes when you get into the heavy hitters on DC titles. I recall from DC heroes that Green Lantern's (hal jordan) willpower attribute was just rediculously high also. That said, Superman is about as close to the ceiling you can get for super-strength categories. There is precious little in existance that is stronger then him.
There is precious little in existance that is stronger then him.
Heh. Except a Superman from another existance. ;)
Yeah, your system doesn't cope with the sheer extremes when you get into the heavy hitters on DC titles. I recall from DC heroes that Green Lantern's (hal jordan) willpower attribute was just rediculously high also. That said, Superman is about as close to the ceiling you can get for super-strength categories. There is precious little in existance that is stronger then him.The above PDF shows Kon-El at being able to lift 6000 tons. Again, extrapolate as you will, since he's not really Clark as a teen ager, but he's kind of close.well, that means i would probably put superboy at a midway point since 6000 tons is 6 kt. so with a range between 6kt and 12 kt, i'd give superboy 8 or 9 kt.Ok, so in pounds were looking at 8 kt being about 8000 tons which translates to 16,000,000 lbs.
In comparison to my categories I had him lifting 163,840 lbs, which is Super-weakling. Sounds like I should do some serious adjusting on my Strength chart. The highest I had it going was:
Infinite 2,621,440 pounds.
Agreed, so I need to fix the top end weights. What I've done is create 20 categories starting with Sub-Feeble/0 at 5 pounds and then keep doubling it at that point, thus:
Feeble/1 is 10 lbs.
Weak/2 is 20
Poor/3 is 40 lbs.
Typical/4 is 80 lbs.
Average/5 is 160 lbs.
Good/6 is 320 lbs
Exceptional/7 is 640 lbs.
Remarkable/8 is 1,280 lbs.
Astonishing/9 is 2,560 lbs.
This process continues doubling the previous weight. I'm happy with everything up to about Asonishing, after that I'm thinking I have to make a change, such as multiplying the last weight by 2.5; then 3; then 3.5; 4; 4.5 etc.
Well, unfortunately your answer will likely be next spring or so when Heroes and Villains 2 comes out. As a gauge, Kon-El has stats in the quick start rules:
I know its not Clark as a teenager, but its 50% of his DNA at the same physical level of development as he would have been as a teenager, with assorted modifications from the Luthor genome.
What are these assorted modifications from the Luthor genome? Did they make him weaker, stronger, or have some other effect?
From what I understand, the only reason a human was involved in the process is that Project Cadmus was having a hard time cloning a Kryptonian directly, so they "sequenced" the Kryptonian DNA with human DNA, kinda like the whole frog DNA used to fix the gaps in dinosaur DNA in Jurassic Park.
Luthor had Kon-El implanted with post-hypnotic suggestions to take control of him, but that didn't have much to do with his genetics. As far as I can tell, the Luthor just used his DNA as a big middle finger to Clark.
As far as practical effects, I would assume that the "human" DNA would pull Kon-El's powers from what a "normal" Kryptonian would be down a bit closer to a human level of power, but to what degree I couldn't say.
From what I understand, the only reason a human was involved in the process is that Project Cadmus was having a hard time cloning a Kryptonian directly, so they "sequenced" the Kryptonian DNA with human DNA, kinda like the whole frog DNA used to fix the gaps in dinosaur DNA in Jurassic Park.
Luthor had Kon-El implanted with post-hypnotic suggestions to take control of him, but that didn't have much to do with his genetics. As far as I can tell, the Luthor just used his DNA as a big middle finger to Clark.
As far as practical effects, I would assume that the "human" DNA would pull Kon-El's powers from what a "normal" Kryptonian would be down a bit closer to a human level of power, but to what degree I couldn't say.
Thank you, I knew when the DC game came out that I'd be reviewing my strength ranges, I really appreciate the assistance.
From what I understand, the only reason a human was involved in the process is that Project Cadmus was having a hard time cloning a Kryptonian directly, so they "sequenced" the Kryptonian DNA with human DNA, kinda like the whole frog DNA used to fix the gaps in dinosaur DNA in Jurassic Park.
Luthor had Kon-El implanted with post-hypnotic suggestions to take control of him, but that didn't have much to do with his genetics. As far as I can tell, the Luthor just used his DNA as a big middle finger to Clark.
As far as practical effects, I would assume that the "human" DNA would pull Kon-El's powers from what a "normal" Kryptonian would be down a bit closer to a human level of power, but to what degree I couldn't say.
Thank you, I knew when the DC game came out that I'd be reviewing my strength ranges, I really appreciate the assistance. I don't want to copy theirs because my system is well on its way but I would like to make adjustments for the Super Strong to at least be in the same ball park as what DC assumes the characters are capable of.
Ok, according to Ask an Astronomer site, the space shuttle weighs 4.4 million pounds when fully fuled, loaded, etc. That would come out to be 22,000 tons. In the DC game they have Superman lifting 12,000 tons. Unless I misunderstood things did they reduce Superman's abilities that far down or did they not really check to see just how much things like the space shuttle weigh.
They internet also lists the 747 8I at 970,000 lbs, that's only 485 tons.
The space shuttle is that much smaller than the 747 8I?
Ok, according to Ask an Astronomer site, the space shuttle weighs 4.4 million pounds when fully fuled, loaded, etc. That would come out to be 22,000 tons. In the DC game they have Superman lifting 12,000 tons. Unless I misunderstood things did they reduce Superman's abilities that far down or did they not really check to see just how much things like the space shuttle weigh.
They internet also lists the 747 8I at 970,000 lbs, that's only 485 tons.
The space shuttle is that much smaller than the 747 8I?
The space shuttle said fully fueled and loaded. So that would include the launching rockets.
Also, i think that in game terms their math is bad. Superman has lifted/pushed/broken/tossed things bigger than that.
In the DC heroes game superman can lift 200 000 tons. The Effiel tower weighs only about 10000 tons, so Superman can lift 20 Effiel towers. I think that seems about right for Superman.
In the DC heroes game superman can lift 200 000 tons. The Effiel tower weighs only about 10000 tons, so Superman can lift 20 Effiel towers. I think that seems about right for Superman.
This figure is more palatable to me in terms of personal believability.
The goal of the Legion game is to (attempt) to follow the comics as close as possible. The game is pre-crisis, beginning with Adventure Comics and moving eventually to the end of the original series. I did checking on the internet and there is a huge array of answers, with little as a concensus. I do believe that with the DC game that just came out the authors couldn't have checked on the weight of real objects such as the space shuttle. Based off of the game it would appear Superman couldn't even lift that, which as far as I'm concerned is (whatever!). I'm changing the upper half of my chart to straighten out my ridicoulus low weights to something that is hopefully a little more in agreement with the comics. Here's what I cam up with, give me some feedback please, positive or negative, I'm trying to hhit weights that most gamers might be able to agree on and match the comics as close as possible.
The weight in tons are rounded to the nearest figure.
Re/8: 1,280 lbs
As/9: 2,560 or 1.28 tons
He/10: 5,120 or 2.56 tons
Pw/11: 12,900 or 6 tons
Ep/12: 38,400 or 19 tons
Cl/13: 134,400 or 67 tons
UE/14: 537,600 or 268 tons
UL/15: 2,419,200 or 1,209 tons
GA/16: 12,096,000 or 6,048 tons
SU/17: 66,528,000 or 33,264 tons...............Superboy
GL/18: 399,168,000 or 199,584 tons.............Superman
IN/19: 2,594,592,000 or 1,297,296 tons.........Unknown
The goal of the Legion game is to (attempt) to follow the comics as close as possible. The game is pre-crisis, beginning with Adventure Comics and moving eventually to the end of the original series. I did checking on the internet and there is a huge array of answers, with little as a concensus. I do believe that with the DC game that just came out the authors couldn't have checked on the weight of real objects such as the space shuttle. Based off of the game it would appear Superman couldn't even lift that, which as far as I'm concerned is (whatever!). I'm changing the upper half of my chart to straighten out my ridicoulus low weights to something that is hopefully a little more in agreement with the comics. Here's what I cam up with, give me some feedback please, positive or negative, I'm trying to hhit weights that most gamers might be able to agree on and match the comics as close as possible.
The weight in tons are rounded to the nearest figure.
Re/8: 1,280 lbs
As/9: 2,560 or 1.28 tons
He/10: 5,120 or 2.56 tons
Pw/11: 12,900 or 6 tons
Ep/12: 38,400 or 19 tons
Cl/13: 134,400 or 67 tons
UE/14: 537,600 or 268 tons
UL/15: 2,419,200 or 1,209 tons
GA/16: 12,096,000 or 6,048 tons
SU/17: 66,528,000 or 33,264 tons...............Superboy
GL/18: 399,168,000 or 199,584 tons.............Superman
IN/19: 2,594,592,000 or 1,297,296 tons.........Unknown
Just as a general statement, not saying the chart is bad. If you have a hero (or villain) with a strength score of 19 or 20 on this list of yours they can say things like..."I hit Darkseid with Australia."
heh heh heh...
The goal of the Legion game is to (attempt) to follow the comics as close as possible. The game is pre-crisis, beginning with Adventure Comics and moving eventually to the end of the original series. I did checking on the internet and there is a huge array of answers, with little as a concensus. I do believe that with the DC game that just came out the authors couldn't have checked on the weight of real objects such as the space shuttle. Based off of the game it would appear Superman couldn't even lift that, which as far as I'm concerned is (whatever!). I'm changing the upper half of my chart to straighten out my ridicoulus low weights to something that is hopefully a little more in agreement with the comics. Here's what I cam up with, give me some feedback please, positive or negative, I'm trying to hhit weights that most gamers might be able to agree on and match the comics as close as possible.
The weight in tons are rounded to the nearest figure.
Re/8: 1,280 lbs
As/9: 2,560 or 1.28 tons
He/10: 5,120 or 2.56 tons
Pw/11: 12,900 or 6 tons
Ep/12: 38,400 or 19 tons
Cl/13: 134,400 or 67 tons
UE/14: 537,600 or 268 tons
UL/15: 2,419,200 or 1,209 tons
GA/16: 12,096,000 or 6,048 tons
SU/17: 66,528,000 or 33,264 tons...............Superboy
GL/18: 399,168,000 or 199,584 tons.............Superman
IN/19: 2,594,592,000 or 1,297,296 tons.........UnknownJust as a general statement, not saying the chart is bad. If you have a hero (or villain) with a strength score of 19 or 20 on this list of yours they can say things like..."I hit Darkseid with Australia."
heh heh heh...
Is Darkseid suppose to be stronger than Superman? I kinda got the impression that he was.
Heck just last week Darkseid and I got into it. I slapped him so hard across the face that he was knocked all the way to your doorstep and struck the bird house. Now he's got little birds flying around his head and tweeting. Needless to say he's afraid of me now, but I sure wouldn't want to be you.
Damnit. Now i have to wait for him to rampage elsewhere before i even go outside to try to fix it. Those Boom Tubes always freak out my dogs for days too.
In the new game, Superman does have strength 19 in his stat block, but if you look under his powers he has enhanced strength 4 limited to lifting, which gives him an effective strength of 23 for lifting stuff, which is why he can lift 200 000 tons.
In the DC heroes game superman can lift 200 000 tons. The Effiel tower weighs only about 10000 tons, so Superman can lift 20 Effiel towers. I think that seems about right for Superman.
In the new game, Superman does have strength 19 in his stat block, but if you look under his powers he has enhanced strength 4 limited to lifting, which gives him an effective strength of 23 for lifting stuff, which is why he can lift 200 000 tons.
In the DC heroes game superman can lift 200 000 tons. The Effiel tower weighs only about 10000 tons, so Superman can lift 20 Effiel towers. I think that seems about right for Superman.
Ah, thank you for the correction. I haven't played the game but bought it for another reference. Thanks for the clairification. Sounds like I was wise to revise the Strength chart for my Legion game. According to my changes, I got Superboy lifting a maximum of 33,264 tons and Superman at one category higher for a total lift of 199,584 tons. Hopefully I'm in the ballpark now. Opinions?
I know you are mainly interested in a comparison issue, but the reason that Superman has a separate super power that boosts only his lifting ability for his strength score is that his his Power Level caps how much damage he can do. So if he had a flat out 23 strength, he'd be a PL 23 character (there are some ways to work around this, but in general, that's how it goes).
Just thought I'd throw this in there to explain why the lifting strength is a little confusing on some of these DCA characters.
Actually, he'd only be PL 23 if his attack bonus and his Strength were 23. You could have a 23 strength and a lower attack bonus, which could result in a lower PL.
I know you are mainly interested in a comparison issue, but the reason that Superman has a separate super power that boosts only his lifting ability for his strength score is that his his Power Level caps how much damage he can do. So if he had a flat out 23 strength, he'd be a PL 23 character (there are some ways to work around this, but in general, that's how it goes).
Just thought I'd throw this in there to explain why the lifting strength is a little confusing on some of these DCA characters.
Actually, he'd only be PL 23 if his attack bonus and his Strength were 23. You could have a 23 strength and a lower attack bonus, which could result in a lower PL.
I was just trying to short hand that how much damage he does is the issue with having a special case for how much he can lift . . . ;)
As well, the comics have established that Superman has a much easier time lifting something (and flying with it) than using his strength in other ways. (The Byrne issues resetting Superman from Crisis on Infinite Earths, for example.)
Chris, can you give me some examples of how his strength is less effective. I bought the DC book to get an idea of how DC portrays characters in order to keep my game within the loop so to speak.
Heh, unlike Black Adam and Superboy Prime he seems to not splatter the brains of anyone without a degree of invulnerability that he punches . . . ;)
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
My major collection is in storage in Missouri, so I can't quote chapter and verse. But Superman was pulling a Very Big Mechanical Thing out of its housing, and was straining to do so. As soon as he got it free, he was merely lifting it, and had a much easier time of it. In another situation, Superman struggled to lift something, but as soon as he was airborne with it, he commented that it was much easier to carry around when flying than it was when he was standing on the ground.
Now, this was back when Byrne had recast the character's powers to be much weaker than they had been before Crisis on Infinite Earths. Pre-Crisis Superman could move the Earth. Post-Crisis Superman could lift the Great Pyramid of Cheops. These days, Superman is more-or-less up to pre-Crisis levels of power.
Heh, unlike Black Adam and Superboy Prime he seems to not splatter the brains of anyone without a degree of invulnerability that he punches . . . ;)
Would not that be more of a measure of Superman's self-control?
His punch is less effective, because he holds his strength back to prevent a high body count.
I still don't understand why when someone like Superman lifts something that weighs many, many tons, that his feet do not sink into whatever surface he is standing on.
And I think the easier to carry when flying versus lifting while standing on the ground is because his flight power is negating the pull that gravity normally has on him and anything he is holding.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Heh, unlike Black Adam and Superboy Prime he seems to not splatter the brains of anyone without a degree of invulnerability that he punches . . . ;)
See "World of Cardboard speech." AKA, Supermans CMoA in Justice League ;-)
I don't have my book in front of me, but do we have stats on Kara? I'd think she'd be at 'teen Clark' levels.
All in all, it's pushed me to get M&M 3rd. If nothing else, a low point game would make for a good Gamma World type game too. I'd also like to see an 'Earth-16' book to come out about the time Young Justice does, but that's a dream.
See "World of Cardboard speech." AKA, Supermans CMoA in Justice League ;-)
Be careful. Directly referencing Television Tropes can be very dangerous. You never know when some idiot is going to add all the needed links to that site.
God, I hate TV Tropes...
Still, I'm glad I found this thread. Hi Eileen!!!!
I'm not thinking Superboy is all that weaker than Superman. I'd be more for reducing Superman's strength by a third instead of by half to represent Superboy. I'd say Supergirl's strength is barely less, I thought it was her level of invulnerability that was significantly less than Superman's.
Agreeing with Freehold, here.
In-canon (well, this version of canon, anyway), Kara Zor-El (Supergirl) has been stated to be just as strong, if not stronger, in terms of power level, than Kal El. The prolonged and intensified saturation of yellow sun radiation that she was bombarded with during her trip to Earth basically gave her a 30 year head-start over Clark. Being younger, she still has the increased absorption ability associated with Kryptonian teens - this also being part of why Kon El (Connor/Superboy) has at times shown himself to be as strong as, or stronger than, Clark (dependent on situation).
Think of it as a sort of "Radiation Adrenaline Rush" maybe? Situation demands it, Kon throws down a Hero Point, and does something that is normally associated with Kal's level of power.
(And as a note, am I the only one who still remembers it being "established without a doubt" that Connor's original Human-Half DNA came from Guardian and not Luthor? And what's with all this "I'm a clone so I'm evil, too!" angst? Cloning doesn't work like that!)
I'm going to be interested to see what they spec Karen (Power Girl) out as - she's supposed to be at a similar power level to the current Superman, it'll be fun to see if they keep her that way.
Here's a head scratcher-
How powerful are people from Daxam supposed to be in relation to people from Krypton? I don't think it's 1 to 1- someone's got to be stronger, if only slightly.
Here's a head scratcher-
How powerful are people from Daxam supposed to be in relation to people from Krypton? I don't think it's 1 to 1- someone's got to be stronger, if only slightly.
Depends on which one is being "lead".
Here's a head scratcher-
How powerful are people from Daxam supposed to be in relation to people from Krypton? I don't think it's 1 to 1- someone's got to be stronger, if only slightly.
Daxamites are Kryptonian-Daxamite hybrids according to the recently revealed "Secret History of Daxam" (see World Without Superman), but since apparently "Kryptonian DNA supercedes all others in hybridization," one could assume they are as close to Kryptonian as they could be in terms of power level.
Except for that whole "a really common element can kill us," thing.
Depends on which one is being "lead".
You're a bad, bad man. :)
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
(And as a note, am I the only one who still remembers it being "established without a doubt" that Connor's original Human-Half DNA came from Guardian and not Luthor? And what's with all this "I'm a clone so I'm evil, too!" angst? Cloning doesn't work like that!)
Blame Geoff Jones. No, really.
|
Here's a head scratcher-
How powerful are people from Daxam supposed to be in relation to people from Krypton? I don't think it's 1 to 1- someone's got to be stronger, if only slightly.
Pretty much the same. With the exception of the kryptonite / lead thing, the two races are interchangeable.
Similarly, Ultra Boy and Silver Age Star Boy (when he had all the powers of Superboy + 'electrical vision') are supposed to also have been as strong as classic Superboy.
In any comic appearance, Superboy/man is going to outclass anyone who isn't Superboy/man, because he's generally the marquee character (barring Validus, Superboy Prime, Doomsday, etc.).
While, technically, a Daxamite is just as strong as a Kryptonian, if Superman ever ends up in a fist-fight with a Daxamite, he'll win in the end, because the title of the book will be Superman, not 'Some Dude From Daxam.' In-story rationales could be that he's had a lot longer to acclimate to his powers, and uses them better, he's had decades to absorb solar energy, he's more skilled, he's more determined, etc. but the ultimate deciding factor will be that, next issue, it'll still say Superman on the cover, so, obviously, he can't lose.
Blame Geoff Jones. No, really.
Oh, I do. Believe me, I do.
Back on the topic of DC Hero RPG-stuff, though...
I grabbed the demo of HeroLab and played around with it a bit... Has anyone used it for M&M 3E yet, and if so, would you be so inclined as to post a link to a valid PDF or screencap of the character sheets? The Print Preview leaves VERY much to be desired.