Pathfinder...in space!


Paizo General Discussion


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Well, mainly my question comes down to asking if there are any plans to eventually create and support a sci-fi ruleset for 3.5 d20 like you guys did with the fantasy ruleset.

My local gaming group keeps asking me to run a Star Wars campaign at some point in the future, but I'd like to run it with something that's still in production. I've got books from the West End Games days, WotC days, and WotC revised days. However, as WotC doesn't have the SW license anymore, they're not going to be supporting their sci-fi ruleset.

Also, a generic sci-fi ruleset to use for those people who want to run any of the popular settings (Firefly, Star Wars, Star Trek, BSG, etc) in d20 would be useful and fill a market niche.

I realize with everything that you guys have been writing for PF and likely have planned, you're probably busy until 2012 or so. However, I thought I'd check.


I doubt there would be anythying like that in the near future. I do think that they will give us infor on the other planets in the system of Golarion. That way, we can run fantasy RPG on those planets and or tie them into Golarion. If they were more high-tech,then there would have to be an explanation as to why nations on those planets have not invaded or conquered Golarion.

Personally, I can't wait to see that info.

Dark Archive

There is some very basic mention of this information in Pathfinder #14, Children of the Void, which has information on the solar system and the planets that share it with Golarion. There are some advanced races in the system, but very little detail is provided besides some names and brief descriptions.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I'm still hoping for Path-Jammer! Advebtures in Mona Space!


I'd like to see something like "Path-Jammer" too. I've been doing my own conversion of Dragonstar to Pathfinder as a little side project. It'd be nifty to see Paizo do something along those lines.


I went to PaizoCon 2010 and I was in the conferese where they reveal talk about future products for this year and they didn't say anythig about products for others worlds besides Golorian. But maybe for the second period of 2011.


crazy_monkey1956 wrote:
I'd like to see something like "Path-Jammer" too. I've been doing my own conversion of Dragonstar to Pathfinder as a little side project. It'd be nifty to see Paizo do something along those lines.

I'd definitely be curious to see what you've come up with if you're up to sharing any of that.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

In the mean time, we could use a revival of the Dragonstar campaign setting for Pathfinder. :(

Unfortunately, as written the setting had to be discontinued because the main advisary was a creature that was not included in the SRD. :(


I would really like a non silly more streampunky spelljammer for pathfinder.


I always thought if you advanced the time line on Eberron a century or so you could have a pretty neat elemental powered space fantasy game. Wouldn't be hard to convert to Pathfinder and throw in a little bit of the Starjammer update from Dungeon a few years back.

Grand Lodge

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

They do have some interstellar travel though...

*cleaned up*


Urizen wrote:
crazy_monkey1956 wrote:
I'd like to see something like "Path-Jammer" too. I've been doing my own conversion of Dragonstar to Pathfinder as a little side project. It'd be nifty to see Paizo do something along those lines.
I'd definitely be curious to see what you've come up with if you're up to sharing any of that.

I combined the concept of the Dragon Empire from Dragonstar with the council/clan structure of Council of Wyrms. Each clan controls a single world, usually (except for the bigger ones) and the council forms a senate like body that advises the emperor. They also choose a new emperor from the ranks of the Great Wyrms among them when the current emperor dies or his one thousand years is up.

If I go into too much more detail I'll hijack the thread and end up a with a way too long post. ;)


Count me as a +1 for a science fiction oriented game with Pathfinder rules. I've tinkered with a game myself, using some elements of RCR Star Wars and d20 Modern as a base ... but nothing really concrete yet ...


crazy_monkey1956 wrote:
Urizen wrote:
crazy_monkey1956 wrote:
I'd like to see something like "Path-Jammer" too. I've been doing my own conversion of Dragonstar to Pathfinder as a little side project. It'd be nifty to see Paizo do something along those lines.
I'd definitely be curious to see what you've come up with if you're up to sharing any of that.

I combined the concept of the Dragon Empire from Dragonstar with the council/clan structure of Council of Wyrms. Each clan controls a single world, usually (except for the bigger ones) and the council forms a senate like body that advises the emperor. They also choose a new emperor from the ranks of the Great Wyrms among them when the current emperor dies or his one thousand years is up.

If I go into too much more detail I'll hijack the thread and end up a with a way too long post. ;)

Ever thought of taking all the OGL sci-fi-fantasy goodies and submit them to Steve as a possible patronage idea? That's one ship I'll board.


That idea has much merit. I must ponder it with due enthusiasm. :D


slicertool wrote:

Well, mainly my question comes down to asking if there are any plans to eventually create and support a sci-fi ruleset for 3.5 d20 like you guys did with the fantasy ruleset.

My local gaming group keeps asking me to run a Star Wars campaign at some point in the future, but I'd like to run it with something that's still in production. I've got books from the West End Games days, WotC days, and WotC revised days. However, as WotC doesn't have the SW license anymore, they're not going to be supporting their sci-fi ruleset.

Also, a generic sci-fi ruleset to use for those people who want to run any of the popular settings (Firefly, Star Wars, Star Trek, BSG, etc) in d20 would be useful and fill a market niche.

I realize with everything that you guys have been writing for PF and likely have planned, you're probably busy until 2012 or so. However, I thought I'd check.

I have played quite a bit of sci-fi with the d20 modern and future rules and strongly believe that the two do not work well together. The d20 (pathfinder) rules work well for fantasy roleplaying, and should never stray from there. Especially when firearms are involved the d20 ruleset breaks down -- any games that have used them (westerns like Deadlands d20 and sci-fi like Star Wars, just become very unrealistic). One of the biggest problems is the 6 second combat round. This doesn't work well when firearms are factored in.

Its only my opinion, but if you want to play a rules light sci-fi setting go with the Savage Worlds settings or for a little more involved rules go with GURPS. For more involvement, look at the new Warhammer 40k rules (Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch). D20 will never be suitable for a sci-fi setting, unless your setting involves a lot of magic and fantasy elements (like a Spell Jammer setting).


I much prefer Space Fantasy to Sci-Fi myself when it comes to gaming. Dragonstar had a decent mix of both, though, and didn't stray as far from real world physics as Spelljammer did.

Grand Lodge

Pathjammer Pathjammer

+1

Liberty's Edge

there are rummors WotC might bring Spelljammer to the table as they did with Dark Sun... no I don't find where i read that among the links i save


Pathjammer +1 :) have used 2nd ed spelljammer and conversions of up to 3.5 in many campaigns, invaluable stuff for high level chars(and planescape.....er .. Pathscape! :)

Dark Archive

During the open beta and into the release of the final rules I was running a Spelljammer game using Pathfinder. I was using the old 2e stuff straight across (and the Dragon Mag articles that updated some things to 3.5, yay powerful build hippo-men!) and coming up with my own adventures.
And I ran it as cheesy as it was intended to run, allowing players to pull off more than just the "move+standard" as long as they described their actions as swashbuckle-y as possible. They interviewed every member of thier crew so we about thirty of the most pirate-y NPCs you've ever seen. There was action, adventure, treasure, and suspense.

I fully support a Pathjammer supplement.
==
AKA 8one6

Dark Archive

A patronage project would be nice. Though I see no reason why Paizo wouldn't eventually make a Sword & Planet RPG in line with Burrough's Mars stories and pulp era Sci-Fantasy other than they believe they have enough on their plate. Several on staff have expressed interest. LPJ has a nice project in design that looks to play homage to Spelljammer I'm interested in.


I would also be interested in a "Pathjammer" supplement. When I was reading Children of the Void and saw the small bits of information about the other worlds, I immediately started to think about how cool it would be to adventure on some of them.

Actually, while on the subject of Sci-Fantasy, it would be pretty cool to see a mini-campaign (like the Darkmoon Vale one or Price of Immortality) that begins in Numeria. The adventurers could be exploring the Silver Mount when they stumble upon an escape pod. While messing with it, they accidently cause it to launch, sending them off Golarion and onto Castrovel or Akiton or another one of the planets. The rest of the mini-campaign could focus on them having to deal with this strange, new world while trying to get back home.


Gentleman Alligator wrote:

I would also be interested in a "Pathjammer" supplement. When I was reading Children of the Void and saw the small bits of information about the other worlds, I immediately started to think about how cool it would be to adventure on some of them.

Actually, while on the subject of Sci-Fantasy, it would be pretty cool to see a mini-campaign (like the Darkmoon Vale one or Price of Immortality) that begins in Numeria. The adventurers could be exploring the Silver Mount when they stumble upon an escape pod. While messing with it, they accidently cause it to launch, sending them off Golarion and onto Castrovel or Akiton or another one of the planets. The rest of the mini-campaign could focus on them having to deal with this strange, new world while trying to get back home.

That sounds like a good idea...also it could be made as a patronage. Maybe start with a campaign arc and then moving from there to a supplement and then to a full product.

Dark Archive

Iron Kingdoms had some really cool ideas for using steampunk in a high fantasy setting and would like a way to bring that some of the stuff that i had from first ed WoW in line with pathfinder. I would love a sci-fi setting similar to pathfinder whilst at the same time I would like someone to get the license to produce star wars books.


I think generic fantasy is probably a lot easier to pull off than generic sci-fi - sci-fi varies a lot more (are the teleporters? Androids? FTL travel? Laser weapons? Laser swords? etc.)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

'Rixx wrote:
I think generic fantasy is probably a lot easier to pull off than generic sci-fi - sci-fi varies a lot more (are the teleporters? Androids? FTL travel? Laser weapons? Laser swords? etc.)

This is true to a point.

"Generic Fantasy" is only possible because "Everything is Tolkien."

Despite the success of both Star Trek and Star Wars, Science Fiction never quite had anything equivalent.

So, you are absolutely right. It is very hard to pull off a "Generic Science Fiction" game. (d20 Future was a good try though.)


Pajammer

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
slicertool wrote:
Also, a generic sci-fi ruleset to use for those people who want to run any of the popular settings (Firefly, Star Wars, Star Trek, BSG, etc) in d20 would be useful and fill a market niche.

Of course, any d20-compatible ruleset can be worked into a Pathfinder adjunct with some work...

Quote:
I realize with everything that you guys have been writing for PF and likely have planned, you're probably busy until 2012 or so. However, I thought I'd check.

I'd be shocked if they don't have a rough sketch of enough work to get them out to the middle of the decade or further. Ideas are easy, of course. It's the actual implementation that's hard.

I've been thinking about an SF/Fantasy hybrid angle to Pathfinder. I love the idea of Spelljammer, but I wouldn't want to see a direct rip-off. There are already aliens and space ships, so perhaps the way to go is to do a Lost in Space / Space: 1999 sort of rif. Castaways in space has always been popular and it gets even better with gnomes and halflings!

I may start work on something like this once I've finished my outline for the first couple chapters of my upcoming Golarion game...


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
I would really like a non silly more streampunky spelljammer for pathfinder.

+1


On the concept generic sci-fi ...
I think the thing I'd like to see in a Pathfinder Powered Sci-Fi book is to cover the basic ideas behind the genre: space travel, classes & races that reflect a more future-world flavor, tech of varying tech levels, and an inherent setting that's more space opera than hard sci-fi. Like PF, this could be followed up with APs, Companions, Tech Guides, Planetary Guides, etc.

However, I would also like to see supplemental books following the initial one that would introduce new concepts to the game. For example: Mecha could be a book on its own, as could something like The Force. Basically, supplemental rules that could be added IF the GM wanted them.

In the end, the game would be fully adaptable to MOST types of Sci-Fi (with maybe going more in-depth with Post-Apocalypse and Hard Sci-Fi in the distant future ...)


I would love to see this steampunky world set in the astral plane, rife with cthulian elder gods and abberations galore. Obviously Illithids, Gith, Beholders, and Neogi are off limits but what about grays, fungi people, whatever crash-landed in Numeria? Symbiots? Mongrel men? Lizardmen? Saurians (shamelessly directed at peaking James Jacobs Dino-love)?

It could also be a good place to feature a paizo version of psionics if there ever was one. I realize you paizo guys have a lot on your plates, but I just want to voice my interest.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
I would really like a non silly more streampunky spelljammer for pathfinder.

That sounds like fun...


Lord Fyre wrote:
'Rixx wrote:
I think generic fantasy is probably a lot easier to pull off than generic sci-fi - sci-fi varies a lot more (are the teleporters? Androids? FTL travel? Laser weapons? Laser swords? etc.)

This is true to a point.

"Generic Fantasy" is only possible because "Everything is Tolkien."

Despite the success of both Star Trek and Star Wars, Science Fiction never quite had anything equivalent.

So, you are absolutely right. It is very hard to pull off a "Generic Science Fiction" game. (d20 Future was a good try though.)

Something more akin to Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon or, Simon R. Green's Deathstalker would be pretty generic pulp sword and raygun Sci-fi.

I like how Deathstalker Rayguns had a long recharge time, they were brutal, but it required swordsman skill as well.


+1. Loved SJ when it was done right.

I did up a 3.5 version of Spelljammer, loosely based on the work of these dedicated folks, with some twists of my own: link

I tried to take out the sillier aspects, and introduce a more "Firefly" sort of vibe. I did a few test-sessions with some pre-made characters at 3rd, then 10th level. I even had some neat prestige classes for Spelljammer pilots and a ship's captain.

Spelljammer was an awesome idea, but it didn't catch on, I think, due to giant space hamsters and goofy tinker gnomes, and some far-flung game mechanics. Space travel is not funny. IT'S SERIOUS BUSINESS!XD

It also works best at mid- to high levels. Random encounters can be nasty. Just ask Capt. Kirk or Mal Reynolds!


Don't make it Sci-Fi so much as true fantasy in a space setting. Modify Monte Cook's Chaositech minus some of the nasty bits involved. Use crazy_monkey1956 format for how to make it a Fantasy setting in space. Don't bring in true tech or guns, as Kor-Orc Scrollkeeper already stated, guns and other modern/high tech items don't really work well in d20 format. I say this being a fan of Star Wars d20 Saga.

If you're going to have high-tech, just make magic weapons, armor, and other things, more prevalent in a Space Fantasy setting, though they might not be on the 'ground' they are in 'space'.


Daniel Gunther 346 wrote:

Don't make it Sci-Fi so much as true fantasy in a space setting. Modify Monte Cook's Chaositech minus some of the nasty bits involved. Use crazy_monkey1956 format for how to make it a Fantasy setting in space. Don't bring in true tech or guns, as Kor-Orc Scrollkeeper already stated, guns and other modern/high tech items don't really work well in d20 format. I say this being a fan of Star Wars d20 Saga.

If you're going to have high-tech, just make magic weapons, armor, and other things, more prevalent in a Space Fantasy setting, though they might not be on the 'ground' they are in 'space'.

Guns as they currently are don't work well...

I suggested a Sword and raygun style, say the raygun works like a single ray scorching ray with recharge times. (like eternal wands)
I would make them 1 per encounter.

If they're based on the magic item rules, they become expensive, and based on an existing format. They become more expensive than wands because anyone can use them as a spell trigger item. Make them all work within the existing magic item creation rules.

No black powder, because well, fire doesn't work in space, and breaching the hull of the ship is a bad thing.

Blast Rifle (Fireball)
Red Ray gun (scorching ray)
Hold-out frost pistol (ray of frost)
Black Ray Rifle (ray of enfeeblement)
Deathray (Finger of Death)
Disintegrator (take a guess)
Dragon rifle (dragon's breath spell)
Force Pistol (modified Magic Missile requires ranged touch attack)

Since everyone would have at least a hold-out pistol, it wouldn't be unbalanced really, especially since ray of frost is only 1d3.

Oh, and obviously pistols/rifles etc would generally be limited to damaging/debilitating spells.

Then again, a Positive energy pistol would be a weapon versus undead but could also be used for healing...hmmm...


I think it best to stick with ranged touch spells to keep the flavor of ray guns. You could also decrease the costs by having them require "charges" - basically ammo with a limited number of shots. Each weapon would have a cool down time based in rounds. You could push it, and force fire additional times, but each time would increase the chance the weapon would malfunction.

Of course suddenly you would find that items that boost touch AC are very valuable.

As for setting: while I am sure the easiest thing is to take the standard races into space I would like to see some variety. I was considering doing a campaign at one point that would feature a race of undead, a construct race, an insectile race (with racial levels to eventually turn into a smaller winged version), humans, and perhaps something like orcs or litorians. Never got past the daydream stage though.


Ray guns are too generic, IMHO. What I would want I think is an extrapolation of what happens when technology and magic mix, and what weapons come out of that mingling of technologies. Are there Rods of death that are powered by dragon hearts? Are there eldritch devices that are used like ships canons? Are there tropes that can safely straddle Sci-fi and fantasy at the same time, with perhaps a feel of the age of exploration?


Anburaid wrote:
Ray guns are too generic, IMHO. What I would want I think is an extrapolation of what happens when technology and magic mix, and what weapons come out of that mingling of technologies. Are there Rods of death that are powered by dragon hearts? Are there eldritch devices that are used like ships canons? Are there tropes that can safely straddle Sci-fi and fantasy at the same time, with perhaps a feel of the age of exploration?

Canons would be where the fireball spells come in, I would think.

We have seen, somewhat, magic and technology meeting in Eberron. One could easilly replace the various dragon crystals with more flavor options for window dressing if desired.


Anburaid wrote:
Ray guns are too generic, IMHO. What I would want I think is an extrapolation of what happens when technology and magic mix, and what weapons come out of that mingling of technologies. Are there Rods of death that are powered by dragon hearts? Are there eldritch devices that are used like ships canons? Are there tropes that can safely straddle Sci-fi and fantasy at the same time, with perhaps a feel of the age of exploration?

Where does a Wand of Fireballs come from? That's what happened with the generic 3.5 hand-wave magic item creation rules...

Remember my idea was an Owen Deathstalker type of world, where rayguns were POWERFUL but very limited. That's why I said 1/encounter....these are just my ideas

Feel free to develop your as you wish

Sovereign Court

Hi all -
Super Genius Games attempted to get the funding together for a P20 system earlier this year, but that fell through. Gary Salari of Star Wars Saga fame is currently doing e20 System Evolved that should be coming out real soon. I'm on the kick starter for it but haven't done as much as I would like to have done with the forums and creative works.
For e20 check out GMSalari Games.
Sure, it may not be the full Pathfinder-ized future system that you might want from Paizo, but it should be awesome enough.
Theocrat Issak

Dark Archive

slicertool wrote:

I realize with everything that you guys have been writing for PF and likely have planned, you're probably busy until 2012 or so. However, I thought I'd check.

I think I also read a post somewhere on the boards where a staffer mentioned that non-fantasy rpg doesn't sell as well as fantasy rpgs.

Grand Lodge

joela wrote:
slicertool wrote:

I realize with everything that you guys have been writing for PF and likely have planned, you're probably busy until 2012 or so. However, I thought I'd check.

I think I also read a post somewhere on the boards where a staffer mentioned that non-fantasy rpg doesn't sell as well as fantasy rpgs.

yeah I have seen that mentioned here and on ENWorld was well. Fantasy is the king. Everything is is just peons.


Scott Carter wrote:
I always thought if you advanced the time line on Eberron a century or so you could have a pretty neat elemental powered space fantasy game. Wouldn't be hard to convert to Pathfinder and throw in a little bit of the Starjammer update from Dungeon a few years back.

+1

and throw in the alchemist and what they could be capable of...


I liked the original mechanics of Spelljammer. They're easy to convert to Pathfinder movement rules, using 1.5" hexes.
Ship weapons are notoriously inaccurate until you get close. Boarding actions are the norm, since a ship, the spelljamming helm, and whatever it's carrying are all valuable.
I also liked the odd-looking ships and the various races and factions at play in the setting.

Community / Forums / Paizo / General Discussion / Pathfinder...in space! All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion