This playtest has finally convinced me to play D&D Essentials.


Round 1: Magus


The way that the Paizo development team and the community disregard mathematical analysis, constructive criticism, and rational discussion in favor of emotional discourse based on perceptions of "fun" has pushed me to my breaking point. I'm picking up D&D Essentials and not Ultimate Magic.

In before "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!" I won't.


People amaze me. You'd think I'd be used to them by now, but no.

Liberty's Edge

I am amused, sir. Well done.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Enchanter Tom wrote:

The way that the Paizo development team and the community disregard mathematical analysis, constructive criticism, and rational discussion in favor of emotional discourse based on perceptions of "fun" has pushed me to my breaking point. I'm picking up D&D Essentials and not Ultimate Magic.

In before "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!" I won't.

Have fun!


Yes because as we all know the time to storm out in a tantrum is before the final product is out. After all it's already printed in stone as handed down by the great old ones and won't change at all from the playtest.

::eyerolls and flags::


Enjoy your new game.

The Exchange

Bully for you. Enjoy yourself.

Dark Archive

Is this an actual serious post? I thought that having fun was the ultimate goal of playing any game.


I agree that mathematical analysis is not the strong suit of Pathfinder. (That is why my current campaign is going down the toilet.)

Hope you enjoy Essentials as much as I am.


Hmmm, did you think about playing both it's what I do. I like both games very much for different reasons neither does everything I want so it's the best way for me. 4E is rules balance, monthly errata, small skirmish fun, that plays the same for the most part through all 30 levels. Pathfinder is not all that balanced between classes, story driven fun I accept the good and bad about both.

I too am disappointed in the magus as a class I love gish builds and was wanting a full BAB but I don't think the way they are running the playtest is wrong. The fact they are doing it at all speaks volumes for how much they value their customers opinions and input. If I want a cloth wearing sword swinging wizard I will play a 4E swordmage , see it's good to have options and variety.

Dark Archive

Judging by ET's previous posts, I don't expect him to be happy with any game... Although, the thought of the 4E community being subjected to his endless ranting does bring a smile to my face.

I believe in the future we will see ET make his own game that is completely logical and, of course, completely superior to any other RPG...

Grand Lodge

Enchanter Tom wrote:

The way that the Paizo development team and the community disregard mathematical analysis, constructive criticism, and rational discussion in favor of emotional discourse based on perceptions of "fun" has pushed me to my breaking point. I'm picking up D&D Essentials and not Ultimate Magic.

In before "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!" I won't.

If D&D essentials is what YOUR mathmatical analysis results in...keep it. No really. You can have it all to yourself. Me, I'm actually gonna do math that actually matters in the context of a PnP game thank you very much.

Grand Lodge

Enchanter Tom wrote:
...pushed me to my breaking point

lol, someone broke the Tom

Perhaps you should play Star Trek RPG where you can play a vulcan and remind us that we are "illogical"


Wait! You forgot your bat and ball!


Harles the DimWitted wrote:

I agree that mathematical analysis is not the strong suit of Pathfinder. (That is why my current campaign is going down the toilet.)

Hope you enjoy Essentials as much as I am.

Hehe!


Enchanter Tom wrote:

The way that the Paizo development team and the community disregard mathematical analysis, constructive criticism, and rational discussion in favor of emotional discourse based on perceptions of "fun" has pushed me to my breaking point. I'm picking up D&D Essentials and not Ultimate Magic.

In before "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!" I won't.

Mathematical analysis ? *checks what he is playing* Ooookkaaayyy ... if number crunching is how you have fun, knock yourself out. Me, I want to crush my enemies, see them driven before me ... and play with alla loot.

Although if a section of the board offends you, there is a little triangle bit that you can toggle off various sections. Y'know, to ignore what pains you and all that.

Have fun in what ever you do!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

IBL.


Enchanter Tom wrote:

The way that the Paizo development team and the community disregard mathematical analysis, constructive criticism, and rational discussion in favor of emotional discourse based on perceptions of "fun" has pushed me to my breaking point. I'm picking up D&D Essentials and not Ultimate Magic.

In before "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!" I won't.

I wish you all the best - good gaming!

GRU


I'd like to point out that the math is not always rights, even so with the scimitars keeping the 1d6 in pathfinder instead of going to 1d8 like they were in 2ed and they are in 4e dnd.
( namely I disagree with the math part of keeping the 1d6)

but the product isn't mine, but my money is.

I won't be getting ultimate magic because of the magus, but I might depending on what prcs may appear in it.

as for dnd essentials, well I won't get the rules compendium, but the other two I want.

nice day to you all, spend your money how you see fit, and enjoy your choice and remember that you made the choice when it backfires or when it succeeds.

Sovereign Court

Turin the Mad wrote:
Enchanter Tom wrote:

The way that the Paizo development team and the community disregard mathematical analysis, constructive criticism, and rational discussion in favor of emotional discourse based on perceptions of "fun" has pushed me to my breaking point. I'm picking up D&D Essentials and not Ultimate Magic.

In before "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!" I won't.

Mathematical analysis ? *checks what he is playing* Ooookkaaayyy ... if number crunching is how you have fun, knock yourself out. Me, I want to crush my enemies, see them driven before me ... and play with alla loot.

Although if a section of the board offends you, there is a little triangle bit that you can toggle off various sections. Y'know, to ignore what pains you and all that.

Have fun in what ever you do!

crush your enemies... see them driven before YOUUUUUU!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBGOQ7SsJrw


I play with some 'optimisers', they cant help themselves. It is a problem I know - they know it too but they cant help it. Others in my group dont want to optimise, they play differently. Same group- different player ethos. Therefore I prefer a game where optimising your character does not result in you being vastly more potent at the mechanical aspects of the game (combat for example). I have found Pathfinder to be too open to power differential from optimisation- there are too many of these things around. It appears to me that the broader paizo community disagrees with me- they like being able to power up with clever little character tweaks. In fact it appears to me the more succesful lobbyists are those asking for more power (though I acknowledge this comes from my position of preferring less - so is probably a skewed perspective). As such I havent played Pathfinder since shortly after the core rule book came out. I dont like 4e either - but I am just saying from my pov there is a problem with the game balance. I am not even sure the lobby group method of playtest feedback is beneficial for the game. Instead I am playing what i would call a houseruled 3.5 with some pathfinder changes (ie skills) that made it cleaner and neater not the ones that made characters more powerful.

I love Paizo's adventures but as to their approach to rules - nope.


Enchanter Tom does have a point, IMO, that D&D 4E is a much more mathematically robust system than Pathfinder, for good or ill. The freedom of choice offered with PF can be abused. My experience with PF is that the system can be broken easily if not carefully watched by a competent (or even skillfull) GM.

My experience with 4E has been quite the opposite. The rules carefully pigeonhole the gaming experience so that a good DM or bad DM run a very similar game. A talented player making up a character is about the same power level as a neophyte player.

This is helpful in that the DM knows how to prepare for his sessions and to make reasonable challenges. This is why my Kingmaker campaign has gone down the tubes, so to speak.

In many ways, 4E offers a tighter play experience - something that PF could learn from.


David Fryer wrote:
Is this an actual serious post? I thought that having fun was the ultimate goal of playing any game.

Yes, it's serious. I remember his first posts - no change since then. It might (probably?) won't last, but I can enjoy it for the moment.

Adieu ET!


TriOmegaZero wrote:
IBL.

Heh thanks man, I laughed so hard over that.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

This thread meant to serve one purpose and it has done so.

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