Teenie weenie Ogre


Rules Questions


A quick one for you all re shrink item.

So DM off the cuff says no to using this spell on bodies which I think is harsh. It's for transporting an ogre corpse as proof of a bounty kill.

I cannot find any specific posts answering this although one or two on related subjects seem to allow this use of the spell.

Your thoughts?

Liberty's Edge

spikadelia wrote:

A quick one for you all re shrink item.

So DM off the cuff says no to using this spell on bodies which I think is harsh. It's for transporting an ogre corpse as proof of a bounty kill.

I cannot find any specific posts answering this although one or two on related subjects seem to allow this use of the spell.

Your thoughts?

A body is an object. The target of the spell is an object. The body is a valid target if the caster is of sufficient level for the size of the object.

If the GM says no bodies...then no bodies.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The spell description for shrink item says :

Target one touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level

Since (from the bestiary):

"A typical adult ogre stands 10 feet tall"

I estimate a volume of about 80 cu. ft. for an ogre so yes, a 40th level sorcerer/wizard could shrink an ogre corpse; do you have a 40th level sorcerer/wizard handy ;) ?


Target one touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level

A corpse is an object, and an ogre should be less than 10 cu. ft. (which you'd be able to affect at 5th level, the earliest you'd be able to cast the spell), so I don't see what the problem is.

Edit: of course I misunderstood what 10 cu. feet would mean. It's not a 10 ft. by 10 ft. by 10 ft. cube, it's a lot smaller than that...


lordzack wrote:

Target one touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level

A corpse is an object, and an ogre should be less than 10 cu. ft. (which you'd be able to affect at 5th level, the earliest you'd be able to cast the spell), so I don't see what the problem is.

Only if that Ogre were ten feet tall by one foot thick by one foot wide (which is ten cubic feet). Or basically an ogre street light.

But somehow I think the ogre is a bit wider and deeper than that.

Miph-not-Melp has a much better estimate of the actual mass of a ten foot creature.

While I agree any CORPSE (even the ogre corspe) is a valid target for the spell since corpses are objects and not people, the spells power has to be enough to work on the targets mass and in this case it does not seem like it is given the size of the corpse.

Why not just take it's head? Pretty indisputable as well.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thanks G; I knew that Honours Degree in Mathematics would come in handy eventually.


miph-not-melf wrote:
Do you have a 40th level sorcerer/wizard handy ;) ?

Here's one I shrank earlier.... er. Hmmm I see the problem with weight so it may just be the the head I take (shrunken or not depending on how the balance of proof in the replies go).


Looks like ogres weigh about 650 pounds. One cubic foot of water is 62 pounds. If the ogre was made entirely of water, it would be about 11 cubic feet. Since the ogre is probably denser than water, it would be less than 11 cubic feet.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Nice argument FB!

Guess I hadn't taken into account all of the empty space in an ogre (around the arms & legs, inside the skull, etc.)

Liberty's Edge

miph-not-melf wrote:

The spell description for shrink item says :

Target one touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level

Since (from the bestiary):

"A typical adult ogre stands 10 feet tall"

I estimate a volume of about 80 cu. ft. for an ogre so yes, a 40th level sorcerer/wizard could shrink an ogre corpse; do you have a 40th level sorcerer/wizard handy ;) ?

A body is pretty close to the density of water. Water weighs about 60 lbs per cubic foot. A human male in PF is roughly 6 ft, 200 lbs. Increasing height to 10 ft is a 170% increase. Volume increase is cubed, so about 4.6 x the linear scale change. The human was about 3.3 cubic feet at 200 lbs; the ogre is about 15 cubic feet if proportional to a human. Adjust to taste.

Edit: Farmer Bob is a ninja! A ninja, I tell you!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The density argument gets stronger and stronger.

I knew I should have majored in Physics!

Looks like an 8th or 9th level sorcerer/wizard could pull this off with ease.


Howie23 wrote:

A body is pretty close to the density of water. Water weighs about 60 lbs per cubic foot. A human male in PF is roughly 6 ft, 200 lbs. Increasing height to 10 ft is a 170% increase. Volume increase is cubed, so about 4.6 x the linear scale change. The human was about 3.3 cubic feet at 200 lbs; the ogre is about 15 cubic feet if proportional to a human. Adjust to taste.

Howie23. That gives me an idea I think I shall reduce said ogre in a giant skillet for a few hours with a few shallots, this may not improve the appearance but it should lessen the water content and improve the flavour.

Scarab Sages

density /= volume
volume = length x width x depth

a refrigerator box (a large sized construct with 1 hp), is about 4' x 4' x 7', give or take. This box has a volume of 112 cu.ft and is not shrink item-able. It only weighs maybe a pound, so by your water calculation it would only be 0.0167 cu.ft and totally shrink item-able. I would say the water calculation is not right for figuring if an 8' tall, probably 5' wide monster with arms likely 1.3' diameter and 4' long (which would be 3.14*(.65^2)*4 = 5.3066 cu.ft each) can be shrunk if your limit is 10 cu.ft.

Shadow Lodge

I think what the density argument proves is that there aren't a lot of physiology majors in RPG design.

The typical ogre is built somewhere between a human and a gorilla, a large silverback gorilla is about 5 ft 11 in and weighs 510 lb. A 10' tall gorilla would likely weigh between 1500 lbs and a ton, I would suggest a 10' ogre should weigh 2/3 to 3/4 that amount.

I'm not sure where that 10' tall number came from though because the stat block doesn't really support the ogre being that large. Particularly when you consider Hill Giants are 10' tall and weigh a much more realistic 1100 lbs. Are ogre's anorexic hill giants?

Much more realistically Ogre's should be 7-8' tall and weight that same 650 lbs which goes back to the 11 cubic feet or so.

As for the question of whether a body is an object... of course it is. Otherwise you couldn't shrink leather, food, bone, wood, etc.


0gre wrote:
I think what the density argument proves is that there aren't a lot of physiology majors in RPG design.

Perhaps ogres have a physiology like birds, and their bones are hollow, or they have massive air sacs like whales. In that case, double the volume estimate, and use ogres as makeshift rafts!

:-).

Shadow Lodge

FarmerBob wrote:
0gre wrote:
I think what the density argument proves is that there aren't a lot of physiology majors in RPG design.

Perhaps ogres have a physiology like birds, and their bones are hollow, or they have massive air sacs like whales. In that case, double the volume estimate, and use ogres as makeshift rafts!

:-).

Being an ogre myself I can assure you we do not work well as rafts.

  • Floating is a big problem for us due to muscle density.
  • Ogres tend to eat anyone who attempts to ride on them
  • Dead ogres are usually well ventilated
  • Ogres (live and dead) tend to have a very strong odor and much like dogs water makes it worse.
  • Parasites that infest ogre's are much tougher than your fleas or lice and have been known to kill weaker races.


  • 0gre wrote:

    Being an ogre myself I can assure you we do not work well as rafts.

  • Floating is a big problem for us due to muscle density.
  • Ogres tend to eat anyone who attempts to ride on them
  • Dead ogres are usually well ventilated
  • Ogres (live and dead) tend to have a very strong odor and much like dogs water makes it worse.
  • Parasites that infest ogre's are much tougher than your fleas or lice and have been known to kill weaker races.
  • Excellent points! I think I'll stick to farming then and leave the nautical adventures to others.


    0gre wrote:
  • Dead ogres are usually well ventilated
  • Lol! If I have anything to say about it.

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