I was going to put this in another thread, but I think this deserves it's own topic. To sum up my situation...
So, does anyone have any ideas on what to do? AM I being unreasonable or is this just rampant metagaming(two players feel I'll have someone steal it from them the instant they turn their back, like when Homer had a huge sugar pile in the backyard on the Simpsons)?
I believe this is a symptom of viewing role playing too much like a game. In a game, there are winners and losers. If the GM screws you over (something bad happens to the table), it is a loss, not conflict that makes the story interesting.
Where you draw the line between too much game or too much improve theater is completely between you and your group. It is obviously causing a problem for you here. I would suggest you talk to your players (pretty much standard procedure for any problem in my opinion). Point out that some times bad things have to happen to the characters in order for there to be something for them to overcome.
If I were a player I would assume it's An Item of Importance - ie a Macguffin that will gwt destroyed or stolen at just the right time to get me into a whole lot of trouble. Why are adventurers hired to move a simple table? Why is it immune to certain magic? Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a new table in Cheliax? Why isn't it teleported, or on a wagon, or on a ship? Why do I have to cart this important, valuble and probably dangerous object around?
If the players aren't having fun then ditch the table, or if the table is a Plot Device, say "after some more travel you arrive at your destination...." and get the plot moving.
Cheers
Mark
If I were a player I would assume it's An Item of Importance - ie a Macguffin that will gwt destroyed or stolen at just the right time to get me into a whole lot of trouble. Why are adventurers hired to move a simple table? Why is it immune to certain magic? Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a new table in Cheliax? Why isn't it teleported, or on a wagon, or on a ship? Why do I have to cart this important, valuble and probably dangerous object around?
If the players aren't having fun then ditch the table, or if the table is a Plot Device, say "after some more travel you arrive at your destination...." and get the plot moving.
Cheers
Mark
See, to me, that's not only metagaming for them, it's also metagaming for me. I'm not going to have a force of 20th level rogues show up at just the right time to take table, nor am I going to count it against their encumbrance, nor am I going to force the table to make a save should someone cast fireball, etc. At this point, the only one mentioning the table is them! YES, it's an important item, but it's one they've already taken for themselves after a one sided slaughter a few COUNTRIES(read- COUNTRIES) back! I am NOT going to have invincible mummies pull themselves out of the sand of the desert going "Hey, is that a magical table I see?!?!" or anything like that- that's just stupid! Just because something can be stolen doesn't mean EVERYTHING even remotely interesting is going to be stolen!
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Well if the table actually isn't important to the storyline anymore simply have it activate and fulfill some sort of function to get them back on track. Like have an outline of a map appear on it as they're hauling it about that leads them back into your adventure or some kind of cryptic warning spout up leading the same way and then just have the thing burst into flames as if it's final function was complete.
say "after some more travel you arrive at your destination...." and get the plot moving.I totally agree. Just narrate them to their destination and then get on with everyone having fun.
FWIW,
Rez
I'm trying to do that, and I would normally say I'm succeeding. But like I said, at this point the only ones mentioning the table are the people who have an issue with it. The rest of the party is slaying monsters and moving on with their lives as normal. Maybe it's because they're so close to their destination?
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Play into it! Sure it might make your story go a bit longer, but if that's what they're expecting who are you to disappoint :P.
Maybe have them attacked and non-lethally subdued and, when they wake up, the table is still there but a heretofor unnoticed drawer is ajar and empty.
Or just suck it up and give them an extra-dimensional space capable of carrying the table.
Chances are they're acting this way because of past experience.
Have you given them any reason to constantly watch their backs in the past? This includes but is not limited to having any NPC betray them, having any enemy ambush them (even once, double points if it was a night attack), or attacking them in places that should be safe.
If you have done any of those things it's likely they realized the world they live in requires constant vigilance and their obsessive guarding of these table is a side effect of that.
If you haven't done any of those things it's likely a prior DM they had did. In which case they're doing the same things.
If any of them have ever played 1st or 2nd edition for any decent length of time, it's not paranoia because they really do think the DM is out to get them at every turn.
I'll buy it from one of the players- they're a hardcore 2nd ed holdout, this is their first time playing Pathfinder.
There WAS a rival party out for the item that was following them around, but they slaughtered them handily, even torturing one of the survivors for information and then killing him. The amount of people who are interested in the item is down to one, and because of actions the party took or did not take, will NOT be a problem in the future(or may even become party property...they didn't get that far yet).
Vigilance is one thing, believing that when they are the sole survivors of a sinking ship(that they kinda ensured they'd be the sole survivors of) and are now that they are still being followed around by people when they have changed countries is something else.
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I believe this is a symptom of viewing role playing too much like a game. In a game, there are winners and losers. If the GM screws you over (something bad happens to the table), it is a loss, not conflict that makes the story interesting.
That's a major reason why so many players create loner PCs with no family.
They believe that by creating a character whose life to date has been a blank cypher, the GM has no way of turning it against them, via hostages, appeals for aid, lumbering them with noncombatant dependents, etc.What they fail to realise, is the GM also has little means of integrating their PC into the campaign setting. Feel free to create such a PC, but don't complain that another player is getting more spotlight time, or campaign focus.
Chances are they're acting this way because of past experience.
Have you given them any reason to constantly watch their backs in the past? This includes but is not limited to having any NPC betray them, having any enemy ambush them (even once, double points if it was a night attack), or attacking them in places that should be safe.
If you have done any of those things it's likely they realized the world they live in requires constant vigilance and their obsessive guarding of these table is a side effect of that.
If you haven't done any of those things it's likely a prior DM they had did. In which case they're doing the same things.
If any of them have ever played 1st or 2nd edition for any decent length of time, it's not paranoia because they really do think the DM is out to get them at every turn.
I'll buy it from one of the players- they're a hardcore 2nd ed holdout, this is their first time playing Pathfinder.
There WAS a rival party out for the item that was following them around, but they slaughtered them handily, even torturing one of the survivors for information and then killing him. The amount of people who are interested in the item is down to one, and because of actions the party took or did not take, will NOT be a problem in the future(or may even become party property...they didn't get that far yet).
Vigilance is one thing, believing that when they are the sole survivors of a sinking ship(that they kinda ensured they'd be the sole survivors of) and are now that they are still being followed around by people when they have changed countries is something else.
Well I don't think it's anything you're doing but they clearly have had had bad past experiences trusting their DM.
Look at it from their view. You know there's no one else, but do they? There are plenty of means of gathering information about places you are not present at. Some Wizard could have scried them out. Unless you can convince them in no...
You know...now that I think about it..you may have a point there.
I know two of the people the people with problems with the table DMed with personally and knowing them they WOULD have something happen to the table the instant their backs are turned.
But I don't do that! It's just party treasure at this point! AND they killed the only people who were interested in it- to most people watching (unless they happen to have detect magic active at the time and are spending an eternity watching the table) it's just going to be a bunch of women walking around with a table.
Anyways, I've gone on with writing the next installment of the adventure. The party is going to have a whole host of non-table related issues to deal with. Still, I'm a little miffed that they think(or seem to think)that I'd have a table seeking army waiting for them the instant they go to sleep at night.
I know two of the people the people with problems with the table DMed with personally and knowing them they WOULD have something happen to the table the instant their backs are turned.It sounds like the problem is that there may a disconnect between what the players want to play and what the DM is providing, or there may be an issue between players. I know people who LOVE games with the aspects described above, and don't really have a problem with a Lois Lane in their character's world.
But again a good campaign involves a give and take between the players and the DM on what kind of story they mutually want to run.
It's fine for the characters to be paranoid.. When the players are paranoid, that's an alarm bell that needs to be addressed.
WHOA! I think my fingers went on strike when typing for a second there.
What I MEANT to say was
"I know the DMs of two of the people who have a problem with personally and I know that these two DMs would have had something/one attempt to filch the table the instant their backs are turned."
What they fail to realise, is the GM also has little means of integrating their PC into the campaign setting. Feel free to create such a PC, but don't complain that another player is getting more spotlight time, or campaign focus.
Though sometimes, that ends up being a lot more trouble than anyone expected! Plus, if the GM starts omitting such spotlight time or focus, the player might think the GM has lost interest in the character...
Got that, Snorts?
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Only joking fella - if Fayne got more back story in there I'd go mad!