Quick question: what does a Magus do when he's not in a brawl?


Round 1: Magus

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Sovereign Court

Most classes have some neat little abilities for when they're involved in situations beyond a bit of fisticuffs.
Not the fighter, obviously, but everyone else gets a few toys for when they're doing other things. What does the Magus get? And what should he/she?


By virtue of Int being the primary (or a primary) attribute, chances are the Magus will have some of the most skill ranks in the party to throw around.

I'm wondering if the Magus should get some sort of healing type ability or something?


Too be fair, while ge has a fair amount of skill points due to intelligence I find his skill list a little lacking. It would be nice to see linguistics on there at least. Plus maybe knowledge history, engineering, geography, and local. I'm sure the argument is that he forgoes some study for martial prowess, which makes sense, but the knowledge skills above would make sense for an intelligent fighter.


Class skills aren't nearly as important as they were in 3.x.

Back then non-class cost 2 points to raise 1 rank and were capped at half your hit dice. Pathifinder made all skills 1 for 1 capped at your number of Hit Dice. Class skill just means you get a +3 bonus if you put ranks in it.


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PUB!

...like any adventurer worth their socks!

*shakes sock*


BenignFacist wrote:

.

PUB!

...like any adventurer worth their socks!

+1

The idea that a character has nothing to do outside of combat because he only has X skill points or X class features is absurd. It's a roleplaying game. When not in combat, roleplay. When in combat, roleplay.

Make a lot more sense than:

DM: You meet some pilgrims on the road. What do you do?

Fighter's Player: Nothing. I don't got nothing but combat abilities.

Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Spes Magna Mark wrote:
BenignFacist wrote:

.

PUB!

...like any adventurer worth their socks!

+1

The idea that a character has nothing to do outside of combat because he only has X skill points or X class features is absurd. It's a roleplaying game. When not in combat, roleplay. When in combat, roleplay.

Make a lot more sense than:

DM: You meet some pilgrims on the road. What do you do?

Fighter's Player: Nothing. I don't got nothing but combat abilities.

Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games

I would have thought the fighter's response would be: "I fight 'em"


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
I would have thought the fighter's response would be: "I fight 'em"

I'm not quite sure I get what you're saying. Could you repeat it one more time? :)


Probably something involving myrrh, I imagine.

Dark Archive

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Make a lot more sense than:

DM: You meet some pilgrims on the road. What do you do?

Fighter's Player: Nothing. I don't got nothing but combat abilities.

Great-Gatsby that is one hell of a multipost!


Spes Magna Mark wrote:
BenignFacist wrote:

.

PUB!

...like any adventurer worth their socks!

+1

The idea that a character has nothing to do outside of combat because he only has X skill points or X class features is absurd. It's a roleplaying game. When not in combat, roleplay. When in combat, roleplay.

Make a lot more sense than:

DM: You meet some pilgrims on the road. What do you do?

Fighter's Player: Nothing. I don't got nothing but combat abilities.

Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games

Not...exactly.

Rogue: I gather information about the dungeon we're heading for and pick a few pockets
Cleric: I pray to my god for any visions he may give me
Wizard: DIVINATION :D
Druid: I leave the city but make a small scrying pool to see what the lands before us will challenge us with
Bard: I visit the local taverns and see what rumors are being spread, then charm then - nonmagically, thank you, wizard - into getting us rooms.
Fighter: I uh. Well, I guess I climb something? I'm kinda good at swimming too, I could do that.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Fighter: "I got us a deal on account of my intimidating manner."

Also, the magus has SOME spells to cast!!! And some of the Magi Arcana can be used for non-combat stuff, like the Familiar.

Sovereign Court

Spes Magna Mark wrote:
BenignFacist wrote:

.

PUB!

...like any adventurer worth their socks!

+1

The idea that a character has nothing to do outside of combat because he only has X skill points or X class features is absurd. It's a roleplaying game. When not in combat, roleplay. When in combat, roleplay.

Make a lot more sense than:

DM: You meet some pilgrims on the road. What do you do?

Fighter's Player: Nothing. I don't got nothing but combat abilities.

Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games

But...

When in combat your class abilities give you more cool options.
When out of combat your class features might also do that, no?

i.e. You are romancing the princess, you meet for a secret tryst - the rogue would sneak there, the wizard would fly invisibly, the bard would fool everyone into thinking he was going somewhere else, the druid would turn into a songbird and fly there etc.

The magus would... cast a spell at the same time as fighting?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

GeraintElberion wrote:

i.e. You are romancing the princess, you meet for a secret tryst - the rogue would sneak there, the wizard would fly invisibly, the bard would fool everyone into thinking he was going somewhere else, the druid would turn into a songbird and fly there etc.

The magus would... cast a spell at the same time as fighting?

Trick question. The magus has Charisma as an almost-mandatory dump stat, so he doesn't get to romance anyone. :P


GeraintElberion wrote:
The magus would... cast a spell at the same time as fighting?

Or, the player of the magus roleplays the arrangements for the tryst, conspiring with the princess about how he's going to enter the courtyard and scale the trellis to her balcony. The DM inserts one or two appropriate obstacles that can either be overcome by clever roleplay or else that the magus can overcome with what class features he does have.

The "problem" presented is entirely too binary: either it's a brawl and the magus does something, or else it's not a brawl and he does nothing.

Now, granted, some people might play the game that way, but doing so wouldn't be like any roleplaying game I've ever played, all the way back to OD&D when class features were as scarce as hen's teeth, and yet everyone still managed to do quite a lot both in combat and out.

Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games


At the moment, in sandpoint, here is what my players are doing :

- The rogue is a barmaid in a tavern and sometimes in charge of the security of the tavern , well she's born in the country and knows the owner well enough to find this work. When she's not working she train herself at fighting in the basement of her ancient house.

- The druid is currently living in an old manor who belongs to a very old and very venerated oracle (has in divinatory oracle not the class), when not helping the old lady in her everyday need he do some gardening in order to have some "calming tobacco" for his pipe.

- The warrior has impressed the local theater tenant while fighting and is has a little role in the new play where he was not that bad (lucky roll :p ) at the premiere and when not training for his role he's playing card game for a lot of money in local taverns (and he's winning lucky grmbl... :p )

- The elf duskblade has taken an interest in Runes and search for them everywhere she can, she's often at an old human home who is sure that the old lighthouse in ruin was something else entirely and she is the only one taking him seriously, they study a lot together old text mostly.

- The Oracle of life and the Dragonblood sorcerer enjoy their mutual company, going for some romantic walk together etc. Lazy basxxx !! :D

I really don't see what is the point between fighting role and non-fighting role...
Yeah, sure it's easier for a bard to be hired by a theater but he's not the only one who can...
And don't forget that most of the times when the group is hired by someone for an adventure it's because that someone has been impressed with the warrior's look, not by the flashing beauty of the guy with a harp... :p

Sovereign Court

So what exactly would a fighter do?


lastknightleft wrote:
So what exactly would a fighter do?

Depends on the fighter.

Sovereign Court

Spes Magna Mark wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:
The magus would... cast a spell at the same time as fighting?

Or, the player of the magus roleplays the arrangements for the tryst, conspiring with the princess about how he's going to enter the courtyard and scale the trellis to her balcony. The DM inserts one or two appropriate obstacles that can either be overcome by clever roleplay or else that the magus can overcome with what class features he does have.

The "problem" presented is entirely too binary: either it's a brawl and the magus does something, or else it's not a brawl and he does nothing.

Now, granted, some people might play the game that way, but doing so wouldn't be like any roleplaying game I've ever played, all the way back to OD&D when class features were as scarce as hen's teeth, and yet everyone still managed to do quite a lot both in combat and out.

Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games

Your deftly avoiding my point, most other classes have some out-of-combat toys to play with. It would be nice if the magus had some as well.

Of course the player can RP. They're all doing that constantly. I regard that as a given.

It would be nice if he had some flavoursome bits and bobs to do (perhaps some kind of adaptive knowledge thing to reflect the comfort he/she has with varied training).


It's kind of incumbent on the GM to assist in providing a role outside combat for the Fighters of the world through his setting.
If you look back into 1st edition, you'll notice that the big 4 classes all had rulership/leadership going for them at name level. Priests could build a religious stronghold and shake down the peasantry for 9 silver/month each.
Fighters could build a secular stronghold and shake down the peasants for 7 silver/month a head.
Mages could build a magical stronghold and get 5 silver/month from each one.
Thieves could start a thieves guild with 4d6 starting minions.

Priests and Fighters were, simply put, much better at this sort of thing. For the priest, the reason was obvious, they had a divine mandate going for them. For fighters the reasons are a bit more subtle.

A lot more people can identify with a fighter than can identify with most of the other classes. Consider that almost every able-bodied man has served in a militia, town watch, or equivalent of the national guard in most settings, particularly out near the frontiers where adventurers tend to congregate. They might not be able to relate to the mysterious wizard or the inscrutable priest of a god other than their own, but they can most assuredly relate to the fighter. It's almost like how neighborhood club cricket players idolize their favorite players at the regional or national level. It's also the only reason in my experience that anyone watches golf on TV :-). There's also the 'they stand between our homes and war's desolation' factor, particularly in areas where that's a fairly recent memory. They're also pretty serious romantic figures with a much higher fraction of the opposite sex than are the other classes.

In general, the high level warrior should enjoy a higher starting attitude towards him from 'the people'. Should he manage to establish himself as a local lord, he probably ought to receive mechanical bonuses in whatever rulership system to reflect the fact that as a class, fighters are just better at that than anybody else excepting priests when they're priests of the overwhelmingly dominant faith of the people they're ruling (note, for instance, that they were 40% better than mages and infinitely better than rogues, and only somewhat worse than clerics, who had a hard time scaling due to the religious requirements).

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Your mom.


GeraintElberion wrote:
Your deftly avoiding my point, most other classes have some out-of-combat toys to play with. It would be nice if the magus had some as well.

Not avoiding. Giving the magus some non-combat stuff would be nice. Agreed. It isn't, however, necessary, nor is it the case that the magus's only choices are fight or cast spells while fighting.

Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
GeraintElberion wrote:


Your deftly avoiding my point, most other classes have some out-of-combat toys to play with. It would be nice if the magus had some as well.

You have prestidgitation, some other fun cantrips and a bit of the utility spells. What more are you looking for?

You've got more options than the fighter or the rogue.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It depends on what his Craft and/or Profession stats are marked as.

Craft: Jewelry - He would make an elegant necklace or some earrings that would bedazzle the princess giving her a keepsake of their tryst.

Profession: Pirate - He would be able to relay tales of daring and danger from the high seas.

Or you could just RP your character's background appropriately. You don't have to have a high charisma for every romantic situation. Sometimes the princess is impressed with your strength or dexterity or even all of those ranks you have in Use Rope, if ya know what I mean.


slicertool wrote:

It depends on what his Craft and/or Profession stats are marked as.

Craft: Jewelry - He would make an elegant necklace or some earrings that would bedazzle the princess giving her a keepsake of their tryst.

Profession: Pirate - He would be able to relay tales of daring and danger from the high seas.

Or you could just RP your character's background appropriately. You don't have to have a high charisma for every romantic situation. Sometimes the princess is impressed with your strength or dexterity or even all of those ranks you have in Use Rope, if ya know what I mean.

So your two answers are "drop your points in hilariously worthless skills" and "hope the DM takes pity on you"


The magus gets a job at a library cleaning up at night and providing security, using unseen servant to clean the place while he studies the rare book section.

The magus gets a job as a consultant with the local constabulary advising city guard on how best to combat spell casters.

The magus spends his time romancing the princess and sets up a meeting, arriving either by flying invisibly or stealthing in. He can cast fly, he can cast invisibility, and he can stealth (not as good as a rogue, but probably well enough, especially when backed up by spells).

This whole topic was a joke right? Or did the OP not actually look at the class stats?


The Magus could skip, jump, press wild flowers...


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
ProfessorCirno wrote:
So your two answers are "drop your points in hilariously worthless skills" and "hope the DM takes pity on you"

I know, right? God forbid you have fun and do silly stuff with your character. This is srs bsns! I know my DM and I both play this as if it were a corporate business transaction and adhere strictly to letting those with a high Charisma bonus get the girl and those without one to just get tromped in the mud like the troglodytes they are.

In all seriousness, RP your character like a good player. My examples were outlandish, but play on your circumstantial bonuses you might have. Can you do something with craft and profession? Possibly. Use them. Also, don't forget that you have a spell list. There is useful stuff in there even though it's not nearly as open ended as a Wizard.

My DM wants his players to have fun. If we can argue a case for something to work, he'll let us attempt with a low percentage chance of success. If it works, then it's golden. If we fail, then we suffer the consequences. And we usually fail, but even the fails add to the fun of the adventure, because it usually twists the story slightly different from what the DM had originally planned.

We had our short-tempered, half-orc fighter decide to dance in a ballroom. This is a recipe for disaster. She rolled a natural 20. Tada, she could dance like a pro. We all laughed and it made a memorable moment in the campaign.


slicertool wrote:
ProfessorCirno wrote:
So your two answers are "drop your points in hilariously worthless skills" and "hope the DM takes pity on you"

I know, right? God forbid you have fun and do silly stuff with your character. This is srs bsns! I know my DM and I both play this as if it were a corporate business transaction and adhere strictly to letting those with a high Charisma bonus get the girl and those without one to just get tromped in the mud like the troglodytes they are.

In all seriousness, RP your character like a good player. My examples were outlandish, but play on your circumstantial bonuses you might have. Can you do something with craft and profession? Possibly. Use them. Also, don't forget that you have a spell list. There is useful stuff in there even though it's not nearly as open ended as a Wizard.

My DM wants his players to have fun. If we can argue a case for something to work, he'll let us attempt with a low percentage chance of success. If it works, then it's golden. If we fail, then we suffer the consequences. And we usually fail, but even the fails add to the fun of the adventure, because it usually twists the story slightly different from what the DM had originally planned.

We had our short-tempered, half-orc fighter decide to dance in a ballroom. This is a recipe for disaster. She rolled a natural 20. Tada, she could dance like a pro. We all laughed and it made a memorable moment in the campaign.

The problem is that your archtypical example had a 1/20 chance of happening. 19 out of 20 times, it's not going to happen.

I have no problem with a silly game, but hey, what if the Magus wants to do something serious?

For the record, I also have no problems with "just roleplay it," but the issue hits when you look at the Magus' skill list and number of skills. No class should have 2+int skills.

Liberty's Edge

The magus's skills are fine. The only reason that he, as a fighter/magic-user should get a boost to skills is if both the regular fighter and the magic-user also get a boost to skills. If you want to play a game where all the 2+ classes gain 4+int skills per level, that's cool.

What does a magus do when he's not in a brawl? Whatever he wants!


People really shouldn't discount cantrips as "out of combat" options. A magus who doesn't expect combat can prep Mage Hand, Prestigiration, Open/Close, and others provide an in town magus with a number of things to do.

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