Variant Class Ideas / Requests


Announcements and General Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

One of the best parts of the Advanced Players Guide was the variant classes, and with all the discussion about the Magus it got me thinking about variants on existing classes that could accomplish what people seem to be asking for, while remaining balanced.

For example a variant Ranger with access to a limited Arcane list, rather than a divine list, in exchange for favored enemy bonus (studying spells rather than enemies)

Or a true battle bard who gets combat bonuses through performing battle rituals, rather than the normal bardic performance skills.

Or a Barbarian who can grow as if under enlarge person rather than rage, gaining the effect for the same duration and with the same fatigue as rage, possibly gaining shape shifting abilities rather than rage skills as he levels.

Any other ideas, or comments on these ideas?


Simple....Magus Arcane that allow you to create a Hexblade type character ;)

Scarab Sages

I'd like to see some variant Summoner, Alchemist, Oracle, Inquisitor, Cavalier and Witches ;)

Specificially, a summoner whos eidoleon comes from the abyss, not an alien...
A cavalier who specialises in helping his team mates even more.
Some new curses for the Oracle, some new alchemist trait things too! :D

Dark Archive

nighttree wrote:
Simple....Magus Arcane that allow you to create a Hexblade type character ;)

+1

this, this, a thousand times this


nighttree wrote:
Simple....Magus Arcane that allow you to create a Hexblade type character ;)

Quite simple I guess.. allow to take the witch hexes in place of an arcana. Done.

Liberty's Edge

Mandreth wrote:

I'd like to see some variant Summoner, Alchemist, Oracle, Inquisitor, Cavalier and Witches ;)

Specificially, a summoner whos eidoleon comes from the abyss, not an alien...
A cavalier who specialises in helping his team mates even more.
Some new curses for the Oracle, some new alchemist trait things too! :D

I'm with you on the oracle curses. Any ideas? I was thinking a lycanthropy type curse could be a lot of fun.


Spontaneous Caster Druids build

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ultimate Magic will include archetypes and alternate features (mysteries etc.) for the new APG classes.

I guess that Cavalier will wait until Ultimate Combat.

Liberty's Edge

nighttree wrote:
Simple....Magus Arcane that allow you to create a Hexblade type character ;)

Meandering (slightly) off-topic for a moment:

I miss the Hexblade dearly, almost the only thing I *do* miss from 3.5.

However, I am of the opinion that the best way to bring him back would be as a prestige class for a muliclassed Fighter/Witch, mostly because I'd also like to have at least one viable multiclass option for a Witch.

I rather like Paizo's de-emphasis on the Multiclass-arama that came to define 3.5. That said, I also think nearly every two-class combination should get ONE prestige class that supports it. I don't know if this is what Paizo has in mind, but it HAS seemed like they are working towards that, at least as a peripheral goal. I would be very happy if Ultimate Magic pushed this forward.

Fully on-topic: Gimme gimme gimme Inquisitor archetypes!

Dark Archive

I like the options that Pathfinder has given to the spellcasting classes so that they can do more than just cast spells, but it would be cool if variety was added to the class to give even more options. Example: when a druid of the earth domain summons an earth element at the time of casting they can burn off 2 uses of the acid bolt and the summoned created is enlarged and augmented.
Something like that where people can keep the options they currently have but can do more with them. And the cleric magic domain be able to have more arcane like options.


Orannis wrote:

Meandering (slightly) off-topic for a moment:

I miss the Hexblade dearly, almost the only thing I *do* miss from 3.5.

However, I am of the opinion that the best way to bring him back would be as a prestige class for a muliclassed Fighter/Witch, mostly because I'd also like to have at least one viable multiclass option for a Witch.

In that case, you already have it :)

Take Witch +1 level of Fighter (I prefer Ranger actually) and Eldritch Knight.....BINGO.

Liberty's Edge

nighttree wrote:
Orannis wrote:

Meandering (slightly) off-topic for a moment:

I miss the Hexblade dearly, almost the only thing I *do* miss from 3.5.

However, I am of the opinion that the best way to bring him back would be as a prestige class for a muliclassed Fighter/Witch, mostly because I'd also like to have at least one viable multiclass option for a Witch.

In that case, you already have it :)

Take Witch +1 level of Fighter (I prefer Ranger actually) and Eldritch Knight.....BINGO.

I'd say that Eldritch Knight is pretty specifically intended for Martial(especially Fighter)/Wizard or Sorcerer multiclass builds.

On top of that, it works very poorly for a Witch, doubly so if you're trying to recreate the spirit of the Hexblade. Your offensive hexes become virtually useless.

What I'd like is a prestige class not dissimilar to the Eldritch Knight, but which would offer a (reduced) continued Hex progression, trade Spell Critical for one or two classic Hexblade features (such as Mettle) and include the "counts as levels of Fighter for feat qualification" element of the Eldritch Knight.

I realize to make it worthwhile for them to publish, it would probably have to be a lot more distinct from the Eldritch Knight but that is the general concept of what I would like to see. Anything in that neighborhood that more or less feels like a Hexblade would make me happy.

Dark Archive

Orannis wrote:
nighttree wrote:
Orannis wrote:

Meandering (slightly) off-topic for a moment:

I miss the Hexblade dearly, almost the only thing I *do* miss from 3.5.

However, I am of the opinion that the best way to bring him back would be as a prestige class for a muliclassed Fighter/Witch, mostly because I'd also like to have at least one viable multiclass option for a Witch.

In that case, you already have it :)

Take Witch +1 level of Fighter (I prefer Ranger actually) and Eldritch Knight.....BINGO.

I'd say that Eldritch Knight is pretty specifically intended for Martial(especially Fighter)/Wizard or Sorcerer multiclass builds.

On top of that, it works very poorly for a Witch, doubly so if you're trying to recreate the spirit of the Hexblade. Your offensive hexes become virtually useless.

What I'd like is a prestige class not dissimilar to the Eldritch Knight, but which would offer a (reduced) continued Hex progression, trade Spell Critical for one or two classic Hexblade features (such as Mettle) and include the "counts as levels of Fighter for feat qualification" element of the Eldritch Knight.

I realize to make it worthwhile for them to publish, it would probably have to be a lot more distinct from the Eldritch Knight but that is the general concept of what I would like to see. Anything in that neighborhood that more or less feels like a Hexblade would make me happy.

yes, yes, a thousand times yes. hexblades were AWESOME!!!! fave class of all time (conceptually, the implementation kinda failed)


I wasn't happy with the Healing Hands monk.

Instead of it we did the following:

Reiki Adept:
Lose Wholenss of body, diamond body, quivering palm, purity of body and diamond soul
Gain: Lay on Hands as per the paladin ability and mercies but wisdom based instead of charisma -- at 13th level can be used like breath of life, doesn't gain channel energy.

Scarab Sages

As long as you're not only interested in official rules, SGG has some alternate-class-abilities books that give you lots of different variants. Most of them can be used for any class, so you can add some spellcasting ability (or new ranged combat options, or whip-mastery) to any character build. There are currently three PDFs out, Arcane Archetypes,Archer Archetypes, and Martial Archetypes.

Sczarni

I would like to see a variant Inquisitor build based on being a witch hunter, give them the feats Disruptive ans Spell breaker and anything else that would benefit them when fighting spellcasters

Liberty's Edge

northbrb wrote:
I would like to see a variant Inquisitor build based on being a witch hunter, give them the feats Disruptive ans Spell breaker and anything else that would benefit them when fighting spellcasters

Funny enough, I always thought that an Inquisitor with the Magic domain filled this role pretty well. Getting to use your melee weapon at range always felt somewhat anti-mage to me, and a touch attack Dispel Magic is pretty outright anti-caster.


I'm really hoping for a varient of the summoner that replaces the 'summon monster' class abilities with either more tricks for the eidolon or a secondary eidolon. All I've really cared about in the class was the eidolon, so having an ability that only works while the eidolon wasn't active never really appealed to me even if it is useful for emergency situations.

I'm also hoping for a magus architype that makes him into a spontanious caster, though I realize this could be pretty hard to balance.


I am somewhat disappointed by the Blighter archetype for druids. I don't feel like there is enough decay and rot and fungal stuff going on there.

As far as new archetypes go, I want to see a decent Ninja. Nothing over the top. Actually, scratch that. Ninja should be a new class with modular features like the APG classes (combat, stealth, mobility, 'ninja magic'...). That way everybody can have what they think is more ninja-y.

I think a Battle Oracle fits the bill for a Valkyrie variant...

A teleporting combat bard variant? (Ala Nightcrawler from the X-Men.)

Liberty's Edge

Foghammer wrote:

I am somewhat disappointed by the Blighter archetype for druids. I don't feel like there is enough decay and rot and fungal stuff going on there.

As far as new archetypes go, I want to see a decent Ninja. Nothing over the top. Actually, scratch that. Ninja should be a new class with modular features like the APG classes (combat, stealth, mobility, 'ninja magic'...). That way everybody can have what they think is more ninja-y.

I think a Battle Oracle fits the bill for a Valkyrie variant...

A teleporting combat bard variant? (Ala Nightcrawler from the X-Men.)

Ninja is probably going to wait until next year, since they announced Tian Xia is coming out in August. I would love to see that as a full base class though.

What curse would you have for the Valkyrie, other than never being able to be filmed

http://www.virginmedia.com/movies/features/cursed-movies.php


ciretose wrote:
What curse would you have for the Valkyrie, other than never being able to be filmed?

Battle Oracle, Tongues: Celestial. It would have to be loosely based on the original mythological concept, but some heavy re-fluffing could pull it off.

Makes perfect sense to me, but maybe not to other people.

Liberty's Edge

Foghammer wrote:
ciretose wrote:
What curse would you have for the Valkyrie, other than never being able to be filmed?

Battle Oracle, Tongues: Celestial. It would have to be loosely based on the original mythological concept, but some heavy re-fluffing could pull it off.

Makes perfect sense to me, but maybe not to other people.

I can see that. I do hope they expand the Oracle curses a bit. It is a fun class, but I think there is a lot of potential there.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I'd of course like to see new bloodlines for sorcerers. I was extremely pleased with the bloodlines in APG, and I'm excited to see if you guys do another one.

I'd also like to see an arcane variant for the Ranger, Inquisitor and Paladin, maybe something planar or elemental in nature.

Maybe do some class options for magic for the more martial class, especially the ones that have access to "supernatural" abilities, like rogue, monk and barbarian. Fighter doesn't really get that, but you could come up with something for it.

I'd like to see more Patrons for witches, more Mysteries for Oracles, more Discoveries for Alchemists, maybe even come up with an alchemist variant that fills that "Artificer" niche.

There could also be a divine option for a sorcerer going with the more "divine" bloodlines, like infernal, abyssal, and celestial for example.

To approach Hexblade, in theory it could be done (in a fashion) with Magus Arcana. It wouldnt be the same, but it would work to an extent.

Dark Archive

Joseph Davis wrote:
I'd of course like to see new bloodlines for sorcerers. I was extremely pleased with the bloodlines in APG, and I'm excited to see if you guys do another one.

Lot of people keep asking for new bloodline, I have to ask, is there a certain blood line that people are expecting. Right now there are a good number of blood lines out but I really don't want to the sorcerer system get flooded with blood lines. I'd like to see options for the blood lines that are already account

- a feat to exchange 2 Heavenly Fires for a channel positive energy like a cleric
- or options to get different features for the blood lines currently out

off subject
-- I don't know if this is a magical item, feat or spell
Offering Plate -- Full round action to sacrifice two uses of channel energy and the caster also looses the armor that they are wearing for a number of rounds equal to the number of channel energy dice. Durring that time the caster sheds 30ft of light and gets a bonus to attack or to one attribute equal to the full AC bonus that the armor sacrificed. The user does get extra special abilities like lay on hands, and domain abilities from the attribute increase but they are only available for the duration of this effect. Durring the effect you cannot cast or use any abilities that grant an armor bonus. At the end of the ability and light goes of and the armor goes back to normal.


I liked the college trained fighter variant from the Campaign Guide, I was hoping to see that in Pathfinder as an official variant.


How about a magus variant that replaces all martial one hand weapons with unarmed strikes with monk damage progression, and replaces armor proficencies and can cast in x armor with no ASF with a monk's armor bonus...

Dark Archive

I badly want more flavorful combo prestige classes like the arcane heirophant.

I wouldn't mind a more martial based eldritch night ( more like the arcane archer but not necessarily tied only to archery...hight entry BAB and a low caster requirement 7.10 progression and some decent flavor )


I'd like to see a Variant Class of the Bard that gives the ability to Channel Energy and affect undead with their Bardic Performances (aka as the Requiem feat).


Berselius wrote:
I'd like to see a Variant Class of the Bard that gives the ability to Channel Energy and affect undead with their Bardic Performances (aka as the Requiem feat).

Better, how about a 'divine bard' using divine magic rather than arcane?

Liberty's Edge

Dabbler wrote:
Berselius wrote:
I'd like to see a Variant Class of the Bard that gives the ability to Channel Energy and affect undead with their Bardic Performances (aka as the Requiem feat).
Better, how about a 'divine bard' using divine magic rather than arcane?

I really like this concept, but I wonder how the divine spells would be able to compete with the arcane. I think it could be done well, but would need some boosts make it work.


Actually, I would like to see feats for specifically for PrC's. Something that allows you to further customize them.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I'd like to see Reserve Feats, like from the Complete Mage, more metamagic feats (I REALLY dig the ones that add carrier effects), maybe an Immediate Spell metamagic feat (5 levels higher, cast as immediate action, requires Quicken Spell).

I'd also like to see lots of cheap and interesting magic items. Even if they are one-use or once a month, once a week, once a day, etc.


Quote:
Better, how about a 'divine bard' using divine magic rather than arcane?

So channeling energy, using spell levels 1 through 6 of the Cleric spell list (instead of 1 through 6 of the Bard spell list), and affecting undead with your bardic performances. To make it balanced, I think I'd remove Dirge of Doom and Frightening Performance.


I'd also like to see an Archmage class that functions like the Ultimate Magus (aka combining a spontaneous spell-casting class with a prepared spell-casting class). Sort of like a Mystic Theurge but for two arcane spellcasting classes instead (like a Sorcerer/Wizard). ^_^


One more thing I'd love to see are Feats that allow spells which an energy descriptor (aka acid, cold, electricity, and fire) to ignore any energy resistance of their target (and even partially bypass immunity to that specific form of energy [aka like the Piercing Cold feat from Frostburn]).


Berselius wrote:
Quote:
Better, how about a 'divine bard' using divine magic rather than arcane?
So channeling energy, using spell levels 1 through 6 of the Cleric spell list (instead of 1 through 6 of the Bard spell list), and affecting undead with your bardic performances. To make it balanced, I think I'd remove Dirge of Doom and Frightening Performance.

Needs to lose a bit more than that honestly.

Probably lose, well versed, bardic knowledge, lore master and soothing performance too.

I think instead of changing spell lists, just adding the few remaining "key" clerical spells would be fine. Prayer, lesser restoration, restoration, raise dead, divine favor, bless, and heal should do it honestly.


Abraham spalding wrote:
Berselius wrote:
Quote:
Better, how about a 'divine bard' using divine magic rather than arcane?
So channeling energy, using spell levels 1 through 6 of the Cleric spell list (instead of 1 through 6 of the Bard spell list), and affecting undead with your bardic performances. To make it balanced, I think I'd remove Dirge of Doom and Frightening Performance.

Needs to lose a bit more than that honestly.

Probably lose, well versed, bardic knowledge, lore master and soothing performance too.

I think instead of changing spell lists, just adding the few remaining "key" clerical spells would be fine. Prayer, lesser restoration, restoration, raise dead, divine favor, bless, and heal should do it honestly.

I would just swap about some spells in the spell list and call them divine, myself. I wouldn't worry about channelling energy, although I might add a bardic song feature that mimics this a little.


Soothing performance already does a bit. You could drop out the ispire courage and inspire competence to have the following though:

Hymn of the Faithful: As long as you perform this bardic performance once per round as a free action you may heal one ally (or yourself) within 30 feet as if you had cast cure light wounds. At level 3 this functions as cure moderate wounds instead. At level 6, cure serious, and level 9 cure critical. At level 7 it can instead function as lesser restoration. At level 12 it may instead function as mass cure light wounds but this use requires two rounds of bardic performance (these are spent at the same time in the round you use the mass cure light wounds), level 15 = mass cure moderate and level 18 = mass cure serious.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I think a bardic music ability that gives fast healing to your allies might be cool. And fast ability damage recovery might be cool too, maybe level 5 or 6. Ditto ability drain, maybe level 10 or 12.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

I've always wanted a Druid alternative with the limitation of only being able to wildshape into one type of animal. - the replacement power'd have to be pretty good though.


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Kryzbyn wrote:

How about a magus variant that replaces all martial one hand weapons with unarmed strikes with monk damage progression, and replaces armor proficencies and can cast in x armor with no ASF with a monk's armor bonus...

+1


I think that they could make some new orders for the cavalier maybe since they are like the sorcerer's bloodlines. I'd also like to see some variant inquisitors that don't use the teamwork feats. It never set right with me that someone who could end up hunting everyone would have so much of their abilities devoted to working with others.


Electric Monk wrote:
I've always wanted a Druid alternative with the limitation of only being able to wildshape into one type of animal. - the replacement power'd have to be pretty good though.

Tha shaman druid variants are a bit like this. I really like them myself, they replace the need for a seperate 'shaman' class in my view.


I'd like to see variants on the cleric, beyond changes or additions to the domains, to capture the feel of different faiths. For example, having less martial clerics for less martial deities, or sneakier clerics for sneaky deities. Part of this change in flavour can be accomplished by replacing the channel energy class feature with something else, I think.


Draco Caeruleus wrote:
I'd like to see variants on the cleric, beyond changes or additions to the domains, to capture the feel of different faiths. For example, having less martial clerics for less martial deities, or sneakier clerics for sneaky deities. Part of this change in flavour can be accomplished by replacing the channel energy class feature with something else, I think.

Or by exchanging armour/weapon proficiencies for skill points, for example.


I know that a lot of people would like to see a variant of the inquisitor that doesn't have teamwork feats. Teamwork feats have their uses, but they aren't good for every play-style. One of my players made an archer inquisitor and found that most of the teamwork feats were not going to be useful to him since he was not going to be doing any flanking and was unlikely to be standing next to anyone else.

Besides, when I think of an inquisitor or monster slayer type character, I tend to think of a lone wolf rather than a team player XD


Dabbler wrote:
Electric Monk wrote:
I've always wanted a Druid alternative with the limitation of only being able to wildshape into one type of animal. - the replacement power'd have to be pretty good though.
Tha shaman druid variants are a bit like this. I really like them myself, they replace the need for a seperate 'shaman' class in my view.

Not in mine. I like the super genius version. It uses spirits to infuse totems with powers not all that much different from an artificer really. To me that's a shaman no Druid spells


Dabbler wrote:
Draco Caeruleus wrote:
I'd like to see variants on the cleric, beyond changes or additions to the domains, to capture the feel of different faiths. For example, having less martial clerics for less martial deities, or sneakier clerics for sneaky deities. Part of this change in flavour can be accomplished by replacing the channel energy class feature with something else, I think.
Or by exchanging armour/weapon proficiencies for skill points, for example.

Certainly, although that's something I can easily do (and have done) myself. I'd like to see what sort of alternatives to channel energy the Paizo folks could cook up.

Matrixryu wrote:

I know that a lot of people would like to see a variant of the inquisitor that doesn't have teamwork feats. Teamwork feats have their uses, but they aren't good for every play-style. One of my players made an archer inquisitor and found that most of the teamwork feats were not going to be useful to him since he was not going to be doing any flanking and was unlikely to be standing next to anyone else.

Besides, when I think of an inquisitor or monster slayer type character, I tend to think of a lone wolf rather than a team player XD

Agreed.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Draco Caeruleus wrote:
I'd like to see variants on the cleric, beyond changes or additions to the domains, to capture the feel of different faiths. For example, having less martial clerics for less martial deities, or sneakier clerics for sneaky deities. Part of this change in flavour can be accomplished by replacing the channel energy class feature with something else, I think.

+1

Dabbler wrote:
Tha shaman druid variants are a bit like this. I really like them myself, they replace the need for a seperate 'shaman' class in my view.

I agree that this variant approaches what i'd like to see. Maybe it'd be easier to approach from the other side and give a ranger the ability to shapechange - all the way not just "aspects" like the "Shapeshifter" class?


I'd love to see an ability to Wild Shape into a Vermin that's not reliant on a Epic Feat.

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