Acrobatics during a charge?


Rules Questions


A quick question - can you use Acrobatics to tumble through peoples' squares or move by them without provoking during a charge?

Liberty's Edge

You cannot charge through a square containing a person (or any other non-trivial obstacle for that matter), so the first question is largely irrelevant. If you had some ability overriding that limitation, then you could, but I don't know of any such ability in Pathfinder.
As for the second: Yes. The acrobatics abilities are not specific to what kind of movement you are performing. By RAW you could use acrobatics to avoid AoOs from falling next to someone, or when jumping over them. I will note that you normally must move at half speed for acrobatics, and charge does not allow for moving at half speed (for any reason), meaning that such a check should incur the +10 to DC "move at full speed" penalty.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I don't see anything that expressly says you can't tumble during a charge, but the rules are pretty awkward. The entry for Acrobatics says that normally you have to move at 1/2 speed; it's +10 to the DC if you move at full speed, and I have no idea what happens if you're moving at x2 speed.

If this was something you couldn't normally do, you'd think there would be a feat or class ability somewhere that enables it; the lack thereof also suggests that its possible, or at least leaves the door open.

This might be the sort of thing that requires official clarification.

Liberty's Edge

Chris P. Bacon wrote:
The entry for Acrobatics says that normally you have to move at 1/2 speed; it's +10 to the DC if you move at full speed, and I have no idea what happens if you're moving at x2 speed.

I'm pretty sure that the "1/2 speed" means "1/2 speed per move action" not that you can only get half your speed as a full-round.

Scarab Sages

I don't see why you couldn't use an acrobatics check to charge.

There's nothing that says you HAVE to go 2x your movement, just that you have to go in a straight line and at least 10 ft, no?

Liberty's Edge

Here is my take:

The RAW says: You can't run or charge through any square that would hamper your movement.

There are three feats that allow you to break these rules and they are:

Nimble Moves: Whenever you move, you may move through 5 feet of difficult terrain each round as if it were normal terrain. This feat allows you to take a 5-foot step into difficult terrain.

Acrobatic Steps: Whenever you move, you may move through up to 15 feet of difficult terrain each round as if it were normal terrain. The effects of this feat stack with those provided by Nimble Moves (allowing you to move normally through a total of 20 feet of difficult terrain each round).

Light Step: You can ignore the effects of difficult terrain in natural environments, as if it were normal terrain.

My take is that these feats wouldn't exist if you could just bypass them with an Acrobatics check. Therefore charging over difficult terrain is a no from me.

Liberty's Edge

There is also the ability of the Duelist prestige class...

PRD wrote:
Acrobatic Charge (Ex): At 6th level, a duelist gains the ability to charge in situations where others cannot. She may charge over difficult terrain that normally slows movement. Depending on the circumstance, she may still need to make appropriate checks to successfully move over the terrain.

That reinforces the idea that you normally cannot charge over difficult terrain.


Yar.

However, if you actually use Acrobatics to literally JUMP OVER the difficult terrain, then the difficult terrain does not impede your movement, thus you can jump over difficult terrain while charging and still be able to charge. If you fail the Acrobatics check to jump over all of the terrain though, your charge is ruined (and you're basically stuck with a double move towards your enemy).

Those feats and the Duelist ability allow you to not even have to jump. No acrobatics check needed. You simply automatically ignore the difficult terrain.

~P

Edit: as for tumbling at 1/2 speed to avoid AoO's due to movement, I would say that in itself is impeding your movement, and thus negates your charge attempt. Increasing the DC by +10 may make it possible (as that allows your movement to not be impeded by the movement). Just my thoughts.

^_^

~P

Liberty's Edge

Pirate wrote:

Increasing the DC by +10 may make it possible (as that allows your movement to not be impeded by the movement). Just my thoughts.

Is that from an actual rule or an interpretation? Looking for clarification.


Yar.

CRB, Acrobatics, page 87-9. The sentence about increasing the Acrobatics check DC by +10 to move at full speed is the first complete sentence on page 88. However, this is only viable for using acrobatics to tumble through an opponents threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity. Normally doing this causes you to move at half speed (detailed on the previous page) (thus, your movement is hindered, thus you cannot charge), so if you increase the DC by 10 AND succeed, you can move through threatened squares at full speed (not hindered) without provoking, and be able to charge (note though that in my lasts post I said "may", as in, it might be possible, everything is always GM pending (also, I’m not the one who wrote the rules). I would allow it though) (calling "being able to move at full speed" the same thing as "not being hindered" IS an interpretation, but (imo) a reasonable one).

The interaction between this use of Acrobatics and Charge actions are not detailed anywhere, as the rules could not accommodate every possible combination of rules without being compiled into several encyclopedias. Thus, we must make some calls on our own about how they interact (and also, the birth of the rules forum). So this is both the rule as written, and an interpretation (but one based on the rules as written).

Difficult terrain is another beast. If you go through it and it reduces your movement, you cannot charge. If you have a feat (as you've pointed out) depending on how much terrain there is, you may be able to charge. If you jump over it, it is not hindering your movement, thus you can charge (provided you make the check to jump over it all).

Give me a few minutes and I'll find the dev posts that say the same thing (about the jumping over difficult terrain).

The +10 DC to move at full speed is in the rules, but it is ONLY for avoid AoO's provoked by movement. (thus how it interacts with charge is an interpretation, as the few paragraphs dedicated to each ability does not and can not cover every conceivable circumstance)

~P


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Yar.

It was said more than once in various locations (if my memory serves), but the first one I found after a quick search is RIGHT HERE

James Jacobs wrote:
Jumping is a part of movement. If you're charging and part of that charge needs to be a jump, that's fine. You'll just need to make the appropriate Acrobatics DC to make the jump; if you fail the jump, obviously your charge is wasted.

Again, the use of Acrobatics to move through threatened squares without provoking at full speed by increasing the DC by +10 hasn't been specifically addressed before (to my knowledge), so this is more of a GM call. And again, based on the rules as I'm reading them, I would allow it (provided all other clauses of the charge are upheld... moving in a straight line, no creatures or other obstacles directly in your path, etc).

~P

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