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So, the start of the Ultimate Magic playtest drives home a minor problem for Super Genius Games that I've been putting off thinking about. Clearly, UM is going to have a magus base class that's a fighting mage. We at Super Genius Games released the Genius Guide to the Magus several months ago, which presents a totally different "magus" class as a master spellcaster. I certainly don't expect Paizo to worry about, or even keep track of, names in 3pp products, so this isn't a complaint. We're playing in their sandbox, not the other way around.
But seems to me I'm not going to want a book called the Genius Guide to the Magus as Pathfinder-compatible, when it has nothing to do with the official Pathfinder magus class. (An updated magus also appears in the Adventurer's Handbook, but it went to print before Paizo suggested they were going to have a magus class, so there's nothing I can do about that.) The GGT the Magus still sells well, and I don't want to confuse or disappoint a customer if they buy this after UM comes out expecting something completely different.
As it happens, this is far from the first time in my three lustrum of game-writing I've wanted another word for "wizard." For the past decade, I've made a note of any potential wizard-synonym I've come across, and have a list that runs from Abjurer to Zauberer. I've used a lot of names off that list over the years, and so I turn to it now for potential alternative titles for my magus.
None of these are a perfect fit, so I'm curious what fans (especially though who have already bought the GGT the Magus) think of my list of options.
Arcanist: The only real problem with arcanist for this class, it you can build a magus with only divine spells. Still, I could overlook that if I chose to.
Dvergmal: Okay, supposedly this is the old Norse word for "dwarf-talk," by which is meant "secret talk," and it is the origin of the old English word dweomercraft. I know I'm going to put Dvergmal in some product someday, and it thematically fits here, but I doubt I'd actually use it for the magus class as I wrote.
Mage: It's short, it's close to magus, and it fits well thematically. It's also what I personally use as a generic word for "spellcaster" in my home campaigns, so I'm loathe to attach it to a specific class, but it may be the best fit.
Magician: I'm not a big fan of this as a high-fantasy concept, it makes me think of Houdini and The Prestige. Which is awesome... but not to rub elbows with Conan and Gandalf.
Magister: This is my personal favorite. The title can be defined as master or teacher, and I think either of those works well for a spellcaster able to cast spells from any spell list. It's also what I would have gone with for a generic fighter/mage, if I needed a third such name after the archon and vanguard classes we've done at SGG. I have some urge to save it for a new class for exactly that reason.
Meigas: A name for a group of Spanish fairies. Not very close to magus in one way, but also not likely to bump into anything else Paizo does.
Mystic: Less flavorful, but otherwise a decent match. It just doesn't excite me. It may be the most generic term short of "magic-user." I supposed I could go with "magic-user," for that matter, and it excites just about as much. Which is to say, not much.
Ovate: The Greek historian Strabo wrote that among the Gauls there were three learned and honored groups, the bards, druids and ovates. I always thought it odd that bards and druids made it into the game, but ovates didn't. On the other hand, ovate is also a geometric term with no connection to natural philosophers, which might hu8rt the names' "cool factor."
Strega: It'd be culturally wrong, but given all the cultural things the offspring of D&D have stolen for their own use, that doesn't bother me much.
Thaumaturge: In many ways, I like this one. It's a 25-cent word for a 5-cent concept, but it also does a nice job of including the idea of mastering multiple kinds of magic. It's not the top of my list, but it's also not the bottom.
Tovenaar: Pretty much Dutch for "wizard." I'm not sure if there's any reason to use this instead of, say, strega, but it's an option.
Warlock: Of course there is a 4e warlock and a 3e warlock, and some people might see those as strikes against using the name. For Paizo, that's a reasonable concern. For SGG, the very fact Paizo's not likely to use this makes it more attractive to me, since I'd rather not have to rename a class again in 18 months.
Wren: Yes, it's a bird. So's Merlin. I keep meaning to do this someday, but I suspect it would take more cultural support that the GGT the Magus has in it, so might be best saved for another idea.
Perplexing this is.
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What about the "Wise?" It's got Tolkien-connection.
That's great for cultural flavor, but I think bad for a class name that's suppose to slap into a broad range of campaigns.
Or Eldritchian? Like an arcane academian?
Interesting idea. I don't actually like the sound, and I tend to save eldritch for less understood/controlled magic, so it doesn't work for me, but I like how you think.
Arcanalogian? Like a theologian, but for arcana? or Manalogian?
Arcanasophist? Arcanasopher? Philosophers of magic?
If I was going to go any route close to those, I'd stick with Arcanist.
I'm also partial to Magister but I'm wondering if just Majus might be cool.
Is there really a need for a name change? Personally, I don't think so.
my vote is for magister as well.
Warlock or Mystic. My vote is for the Warlock though.
As usual, I've got to buck the trend, but I'd avoid "magister" precisely because that's already the name of the primary arcane spellcasting class (the wizard replacement, as it were) in all of Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved stuff.
If Monte were just another 3rd party nobody, it wouldn't matter, but considering he was one of the primary architects of the 3rd edition, and considering the fan base his variants have, I'd be leery of overtly appearing to be trying to gank the class out from under him.
I'd also avoid "Arcanist" because that's general 3.0/3.5/PF slang for a "wizard or sorcerer," and avoid "warlock" because it's been used to death in both offical and 3rd party stuff.
For a master spellcaster, "Thaumaturgist" and "High Mage" both have a nice ring to them, and don't have the disadvantage of overtly competing with other major 3rd party products (that I know of offhand).
"Ovate" actually isn't bad at all; the connection with geometry can be passed off as a reference to "calculating the geometry of the spheres" or some other pseudo-mystical flavor text for a spellcaster.
Magister is my favorite.
And Warlock has the same problem as Magus - it has been used for another class in Pathfinder (albeit by another 3pp). And in 3.5.
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As usual, I've got to buck the trend, but I'd avoid "magister" precisely because that's already the name of the primary arcane spellcasting class (the wizard replacement, as it were) in all of Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved stuff.
while I see your point, and might even be more concerned if this was a new release, I'm just not worried about it. The term magister seriously predates Monte's use of it, and no one accused him of trying to ride Ed Greenwood's coattails. And the very fact that a major publisher might shy away from the term is a plus for me, as it's less likely I'll need to rename the class again later.
Between it having been used in the Realms before Arcana Evolved, and it being a real word with a related meaning, I think it's safely fair game.
I'd also avoid "Arcanist" because that's general 3.0/3.5/PF slang for a "wizard or sorcerer," and avoid "warlock" because it's been used to death in both offical and 3rd party stuff.
Its use as slang doesn't both me nearly as much as its obvious suggestion it's for an arcane-only class, which is not the case for the Genius Magus.
For a master spellcaster, "Thaumaturgist" and "High Mage" both have a nice ring to them, and don't have the disadvantage of overtly competing with other major 3rd party products (that I know of offhand).
High Mage isn't too bad. I'll add it to the list of names under consideration, though I suspect it also sounds very arcane-magic based.
"Ovate" actually isn't bad at all; the connection with geometry can be passed off as a reference to "calculating the geometry of the spheres" or some other pseudo-mystical flavor text for a spellcaster.
Fair point. :D
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Magister is my favorite.
So far it's the clear early leader.
And Warlock has the same problem as Magus - it has been used for another class in Pathfinder (albeit by another 3pp). And in 3.5.
I'm not worried about it's 3.5 use. I can't be, or I'll run out of names for new things too quickly.
I'm not *officially* worried about another 3pp either, though I admit that on a personal level I'd rather work with than compete with other 3pp. So the Tome of Secrets warlock doesn't prevent me from using the name (we already have our own shaman, and I'd use Artificer, Knight, Priest, Spellblade, Swashbuckler, or Warlord if they were the best name for the concept I was writing), but it is a mark against the idea.
High Mage isn't too bad. I'll add it to the list of names under consideration, though I suspect it also sounds very arcane-magic based.
Sorry -- I misunderstood you -- I'd assumed that the Super Genius class currently called the "magus" was basically arcane-magic-based. As I don't own the book, maybe I should just keep my mouth shut (or my fingers still, or whatever...).
Maybe we can convince the fine folks at Paizo that they should give us the term "Magus" as reparations for hiring away Hyrum.
No?
Well, then we should get a game term to be named later.
Or something.
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High Mage isn't too bad. I'll add it to the list of names under consideration, though I suspect it also sounds very arcane-magic based.Sorry -- I misunderstood you -- I'd assumed that the Super Genius class currently called the "magus" was basically arcane-magic-based. As I don't own the book, maybe I should just keep my mouth shut (or my fingers still, or whatever...).
No problem! Your points remains cogent and reasoned. The magus is a multi-disciplined caster, and can pick what spell lists to cast from, so it CAN be arcane based, but can also be divine, or mix the two.
Go old-school and call it the "Magic-User". Then later you can release a class called the "Fighting Man", or even the "Thief". :-)
Magister is really the easiest way to go on this route. It gets the point across, it doesn't lock you in as an arcanist, and it's not the magus.
I like Magister too.
Keeping in mind I don't have that book so I don't what your Magus is:
Magister has a fighter/mage ring to me too... I blame manga.
Wren, Ovate, Meigas, Stregas, Tovennar and Dvergmal are kinda weird sounding. Weird sounding is cool for PrC but not so much for a base class.
Mage, Mystic and Arcanist would need an adjective to stand out, like High Mage, Grand Mystic or Master Arcanist. But again they sound more like PrCs, and bad ones at that.
Warlock is overused.
Thaumaturge. DING! I call a winner. Thaumaturge sounds like a badass spellcaster that can do things no wizard or cleric can do. It has my vote.
I like both the Magister and the Thaumaturge.
Magister brings to mind 2e Forgotten Realms... and in a good way.
I've heard Thaumaturge used before as well... forget where exactly... but either would be fine.
I'm a little more partial to Magister though.
Dean (TMW)
Thaumaturge or Thaumaturgist would get my vote, someone who works all kinds of magic. I think you should move this to the top of the list.
Yes, either variant would be my choice as well. Or -- well, the "mystic theurge" is an arcane/divine caster. So maybe "Theurgist" would be the best name for the SGG class?
That's too bad, Owen. For what it's worth, SGG's use of "magus" was a better use. Not that I'm bitter or anything. Nosireebob.
I'll put in my vote for Thaumaturge, especially since I've always seen the SGG Magus (which is a class I love, btw) as a base class version of the Mystic Theurge.
I'd do Mystic
for what its worth, I think the Paizo class should have been mystic or warlock
That's too bad, Owen. For what it's worth, SGG's use of "magus" was a better use. Not that I'm bitter or anything. Nosireebob.
{pokes with enchanted stick}
Owen, my vote is for Thaumaturge but that is only because one of the projects we are currently working on is a supplement for Pathfinder about the Magister class. However, if you decide to go with that name, there is certainly plenty of room in the pool for more than one class with the same name. :)
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Steve Creech
DragonWing Games
Thaumaturge:
only because there is The Magister of Forgotten Realms and the magister class of Arcana Evolved.
That's too bad, Owen. For what it's worth, SGG's use of "magus" was a better use. Not that I'm bitter or anything. Nosireebob.
Can we instead vote you stay the Magus, and Paizo changes to the Magister? Pretty please?
No? Okay, I vote Magister.
Owen, my vote is for Thaumaturge but that is only because one of the projects we are currently working on is a supplement for Pathfinder about the Magister class.
Dang it! Okay, just because you said you wanted to play nice with other publishers, I want ONE of you to switch to Thaumaturge.
Maybe you should fight over the name in an IRON GM contest?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Thaumaturge or Thaumaturgist would get my vote, someone who works all kinds of magic. I think you should move this to the top of the list.Yes, either variant would be my choice as well. Or -- well, the "mystic theurge" is an arcane/divine caster. So maybe "Theurgist" would be the best name for the SGG class?
While my initial preference was for Magister, I do actually quite like Kirth's use of Theurgist.
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Owen, my vote is for Thaumaturge but that is only because one of the projects we are currently working on is a supplement for Pathfinder about the Magister class.Dang it! Okay, just because you said you wanted to play nice with other publishers, I want ONE of you to switch to Thaumaturge.
Maybe you should fight over the name in an IRON GM contest?
With a lot of oil and wrestling instead and I am up for watching.
If you want to and plan to change it and I get why you would. Of those suggested what I think fits best for what the class is, are
Thaumaturge - Mostly cause the meaning of the word is closest to what the class really is.
Warlock - This sounds cool so might be better for marketing reasons.
+1 for Thaumaturge and for the reasons she's cited.
How about Theurge? Or something that mixes Dweomer with master?
Dweomer Master
Dweomaster
How about Theurge? Or something that mixes Dweomer with master?
Dweomer Master
Dweomaster
Dweomertheurge?
Dweomertheurge?
Or if we're going for that nostalgic Gygax feel, "Dweomercraefter."
well, the "mystic theurge" is an arcane/divine caster. So maybe "Theurgist" would be the best name for the SGG class?
That's my perspective - "Mystic", "Theurge" (or Theurgist) work well. Thaumaturge is also nice. Magister still works - warlock doesn't fit the concept at all to me (nothing to do with 3e/4e versions).
Any update on the new name?
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Any update on the new name?
I'm in the process of codifying all the revisions and updates I want to put into our PDF line, and this is on that list. i am leaning heavily toward magister, in part because I want to save some of these other names for other class ideas, but it's not set in layout stone yet.
Any update on the new name?I'm in the process of codifying all the revisions and updates I want to put into our PDF line, and this is on that list. i am leaning heavily toward magister, in part because I want to save some of these other names for other class ideas, but it's not set in layout stone yet.
Thanks for the update.
Put me down for wishing Paizo would go with magister and you would keep magus. To me, magus (as a class name, or concept) has nothing to do with melee fighting. It fits much better with your class.
That being said, and accepted as wishful thinking, I'd go with Thaumaturge because it's one of my favorite words, with Magister coming in as a close, close second.
Thaumaturge is the way to go. It really fits the Mystic Theurge type character Base Class that this seems to represet. Theurgist would also be acceptable. If its any consolation, I called this class the Thaumaturge in my campaigns long before the Pathfinder Magus was named. I just though the name fit better.