At first glance Hasted Assault seems... off


Round 1: Magus


Hasted Assault (Su): A magus with this magus arcana can
sacrifice one of his prepared magus spells as a swift action
to move more quickly. This functions as haste, but it only
targets the magus and the duration is equal to the level of
the sacrificed spell. That magus must be at least 9th level
before selecting this magus arcana."

Assuming a 9th level caster with 16 base strength and no boost items, and a +2 wpn:

Round 1 Sacrifce 3rd level slot, cast Bull's strength and attack,
(+5 for 20 strength, -4 for spell combat, +2 for wpn.)
so attacks +9/+9/+4

Round 2 Enlarge person, and attack
(+6 for 22 strength, -4 for spell combat, +2 for wpn.)
So attack +10/+10/+5

Round 3 and on attack as normal with sacrifices of lvl 1 and 2 spells.
(+6 for 22 strength, +2 for wpn.)
So attack +14/+14/+9

At level 9 with no other buffs. Do fighters and monks really compare here? (genuine question... it just seems really powerful to me.)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Sure

Two Weapon Fighter lvl 9

+2 weapon training
+9 bab
+1 weapon focus
+1 improved weapon focus
+3 16 strength (would probably be higher)
+2 magic weapon
and +1 secondary weapon

-2 to attack for light weapon

+16/+15/+11/+10 With suboptimal strength


Fair enough but it took dex 17, four feats, using a matched light wepaon in your main hand and a class ability to get there too... as opposed to the Magus just showing up.

Admittedly it could be a double weapon for the fighter to get up to a d8+bonuses damage, but thats another feat to beat out on the Magus.

I'm not saying it's more powerful than a fighter, but it's certainly closing in on the fighter's specialty.


You missed the +1 attack bonus for the Haste effect. First, you're assuming that the opposing side doesn't have anyone who can cast slow with a reasonable DC. Second, there are only four third level slots at the most at level 9 (assuming INT 22; the highest possible at that point); sure, you can haste yourself for the first three rounds of any fight four times per day, just so long as you don't mind losing the spells you might have actually wanted to cast. Third, if you have INT 16 and STR 16 (fair assumption, given the nature of the class), then your AC and HP are going to be comparatively low, and while you may up to do 3d8+21 damage on your first turn, it won't help you when it's the other guy's turn...

The same three rounds from a two handed weapon fighter using the basic class features; assuming 16 STR, appropriate weapon training and appropriate feats:

Round 1: Crunch - +3 STR, +4 feats/weapon training, -3 Power Attack

+13/+8; 4d6+34

Round 2: Crunch - +3 STR, +4 feats/weapon training, -3 Power Attack

+13/+8; 4d6+34

Round 3: Crunch - +3 STR, +4 feats/weapon training, -3 Power Attack

+13/+8; 4d6+34

In the third round, the Magus's attack bonus has finally gone higher than that of the fighter, but only by one, and the fighter is pumping out considerably higher damage if all attacks hit, or about equal (2d6+17 vs 2d8+16) if only the +13 attack hits and only the +14 Magus attacks hit. This is with no magical items or buffs, and with a considerably lower STR than I would generally build a fighter (he'd have a minimum of 20 by level 8), and the fighter can keep this up all day long.


Point 1- you shouldn't factor in bull's strength because as an enchancement bonus it doesn't stack with the commonly available Belt of Giant Strength. But that's okay because:
Point 2 - you neglected to factor in the Arcane Weapon bonuses, which at that level would be +2
Point 3 - enlarge person gives a -1 size modifier to attacks, cancelling out the +1 from Str. But for a strict comparison, you shouldn't factor it in at all because the comparison is not about the Magus's ability to self-buff.
Point 4 - What Reckless said, but not counting Weapon Focus or Improved Two Weapon Fighting and having two only +1 weapons.

So the equivalent Fighter ends up at -1 damage per attack compared to the Magus but is 4000gp richer and isn't expending spell slots every round. The Fighter needs Dex 15 for Two Weapon Fighting, the Magus needs Int 14 by that level to continue to be able to cast all his spells. The Fighter needed to spend a class feature it gets every 2 levels, the Magus neded to spend a class feature it gets every three.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

9th level fighter still has lots of other feats too. I mean, feats are basically the class' feature. And what Int is your Magus sporting? After all, Int, not Str is the Magus' primary ability, and you gave him a 16 to get where you are.

Honestly, it took 3 rounds for your Magus to "get there" and the fighter just "shows up" first round like that. His weapon training, weapon specialization, etc. is going to keep his damage potential quite high. And he doesn't have to spend any rounds to be ready to kick ass.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Ultimate Magic Playtest / Round 1: Magus / At first glance Hasted Assault seems... off All Messageboards
Recent threads in Round 1: Magus
Board closed