A question of choice (Spoilers)


Curse of the Crimson Throne

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I'm currently running a group through the 4th adventure of the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP, though I'm worried about something that will come up in the 5th adventure. We're using the Pathfinder system.

Here's the group:

Bard
Urban Ranger (ranged, uses Long Bows)
Wizard/Psion/PrC class that improves both
Cleric of Gorum
Fighter (Phalanx Fighter)

I'm having a little problem with 2 players in particular:

Cleric of Gorum - Uses a great sword
Fighter (Phalanx Fighter variant from the APG) - uses spears + large shield.

Recently, the Fighter player was having issues with the second and third adventures. He was having trouble hitting or damaging monsters. This issue eventually came to a very loud argument with another player (the bard).

It turns out he had not read about two-weapon fighting rules and was using his full STR on the off hand damage. Also, he did not have weapon focus or weapon specialization or any of the shield bash feats, and he was using weapons that had d6's for damage. To make matters worse, the Cleric of Gorum was able to still handle himself in the fight (since he was using a two handed weapon and buffed himself)

In reaction to the argument, I let him change some options for his character (he gained the phalanx fighter variant and used a larger polearm, and updated some feats of which I have not seen yet).

The group wasn't too happy with that, seeing it as a "squeaky wheel gets the grease" situation. They've since relaxed a little about it, but since the player in question hasn't apologized, it's still a sore spot.

Curse of the Crimson Throne spoiler:
So the issue is Selytiel. I normally just change it to something that's good for the fighter (so in this case a polearm).

But since this player already had a fit and got what he wanted, I don't want to go out of my way again, as it won't be a popular move with the rest of the group. I had tried to avoid this situation by hinting that using a sword would be a good plan during character creation.

Finally, as I said above, the Cleric uses swords, so changing the weapon seems like I'm placating a player as the expense of another.

What would you do to solve this situation?

Liberty's Edge

Well you have a couple of problems twisting into each other. The simple solution is to keep Serithtial the way it is and Remove Greatsword from the list of weapons it can turn into. That will mean the sword does not favor one character over another. Then it is up to the Party to decide who best to wield it.

As to your fighter Player. May I make a suggestion that you get a look at that sheet a couple of days before the reveal for that character or at the least (if it has already played) check it out when the rest of the group is not there. Players like the one you describe, often trade one set of mistakes for another. Make sure that he has his numbers right again, sometimes they hurt themselves and never realize it until it is way to late. Sometimes they wind up better than they should be, not usually through anything but a lack of understanding of rules and abilities bumping into each other and causing static that they don't realize or notice.

The party has to realize by now, or very soon, that the item they need is the sword of a paladin. They will have nothing more to go on until they find it and by then you can alter it to fit your group. If you add polearm or spear to the things it can turn in to the party may quickly figure out that you fudged it to fit the fighter. But if you make it so no one is favored then you can wash your hands of it and let them figure out who to wield it.

The thing will make up for any unoptimized build wielding it just by hating pretty much everything the party will see after they find it. Zon-Kuthon Bane and Holy...that is +2/+2 +3d6 on top of it's already significant bonus. Pretty much will cover even a Sorc/Wiz picking it up (ok not quite but it can come close)...


I'd say keep it a sword. Yes, the cleric will get an even better weapon than he currently has, but that's not such a bad deal.

Alternatively, turn it into a longbow :)

Edit: Actually, +1 to Brutesquad07's suggestion. That seems to be the best choice here.


I disagree with Brutesquad07.

The fighter is using a polearm.

The cleric is using a greatsword.

Quote:
I had tried to avoid this situation by hinting that using a sword would be a good plan during character creation.

The cleric took your advice. Why change it into a polearm, or change it into anything but a greatsword? Keep it as it is. I don't even see how the fighter can get mad at you when you show him its stat block in the book.

Why punish the cleric for taking your advice?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I agree with Ice Titan. Punishing the Cleric for building his character according to your own expressed wishes, so that the fighter, who did explicitly not do this, gets the epic artifact... well, that does smell of favoritism.

Furthermore, I am shocked that a fighter could have problems hitting something in Pathfinder. He really must have a terrible built.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Good points all around. Sorry for not replying last night, the internet at the hotel I'm at is fickle.

Brutesquad07: I'm going to take your advice and see if the player can scan and send the player sheet to me prior to the game (he lives 6 hours away). I'm hoping that he's increased his damage/to hit potential. I'm also going to see how he plays next game, and if he's become more comfortable with his initial role as a defensive fighter.

That being said, I have to lean towards Ice Titan's advice. I see where your coming from, as your solution would wash my hands of the situation and force the players to choose something. The expected outcome (knowing my players) would be the fighter would state he doesn't use anything other than polearms (once he has a character concept any changes to it can cause him to become angry) and the cleric would end up using one of the simple weapons on the weapon list, especially since he'd be the one to take the weapon.

Since the cleric is proficient with Gorum's favoured weapon (greatsword) and not some of the other weapons on the change list (such as the longsword or the bastard sword), I'd feel that it would be a punishment for the cleric to take his favoured weapon off the list.

Are: Good advice on the longbow :) My wife had the same advice, and that may be the route I take.

magnuskn: I agree, It's somewhat surprising to see the fighter missing hits. Between the 2nd and 3rd adventure we did change from 3.5 to 3.P so I expected him to hit and damage more.

On the other hand, the player didn't take any feats to help him hit though, save for Two-Weapon Fighting. His feats have been mostly defensive or the Abyssal Heritor feats.

The turning point where it got worse was during the fights with the Rakshasas. The fighter didn't have any good aligned weapons, nor had he increased the damage bonus on any of his weapons beyond +1, so his hits did about 0-3 damage per hit. The cleric was away during the fight, and therefore the player covering for him had not prepared align weapon (which the Cleric normally prepared). The fighter did start using disarm and trip attempts with very good outcomes, though he explained in the argument that he didn't feel those actions did anything to help the fights.

As I said, it's become a sore point after the argument.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Modera wrote:
The turning point where it got worse was during the fights with the Rakshasas. The fighter didn't have any good aligned weapons, nor had he increased the damage bonus on any of his weapons beyond +1, so his hits did about 0-3 damage per hit. The cleric was away during the fight, and therefore the player covering for him had not prepared...

Well, that's totally another situation. The Rakshasas suck for everyone, fighter or caster type, because their AC and SR are through the roof. Thankfully they themselves suck at dishing out damage, so their encounters are quite frustrating for their length, but manageable. You just need enough flanking, tripping and some big crits to put them out of their misery. It's still key for Bahor and Vimanda, though, to have something to pierce the DR of those two, since they both have an humonguous amount of HP.

If that is the only time where he had problems hitting stuff, then it should pass quite soon, AC's get much more reasonable after you are done with the Arkona mansion.

But as for Serithial, you still shouldn't give it to the Fighter if he totally ignored the very obvious hints that using swords as your main weapon is good for the campaign. Especially if the Cleric player took the hint.

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