In describing the summoner's eidolon, the APG says that "The eidolon’s physical appearance is up to the summoner, but it always appears as some sort of fantastical creature." What counts as a "fantastical creature"? Does this mean that I can't have an eidolon that looks like a human or a horse? What about an elf? In the real world, we consider elves fantastical, but do they count as such in a fantasy world? But if we're thinking in terms of a fantasy world, what does count as fantastical? And if we do assume that an eidolon cannot look like a human, what would be the reason behind this?
this is entirely up to your GM, I think that it was meant to prevent you from hiding the fact that you might have got one.
So a human with some features that make it extraordinary, like orange hair claws and burning eyes would probably be okay, but again it's up to your GM.
My definition would be that a spot check against 10 would reveal it not to be a commonly known animal (nor known with any knowledge check, but suspected outsider).
I figured that it would be about preventing you from hiding the fact that you got one. I'm just not sure why that's so important. Perhaps it would depend on the details of the campaign. Then again, if that were an issue, you could always stipulate that summoners and their eidolons are common enough such that when people see the symbol on their foreheads, they recognize them for what they are.
More importantly, though, I'm wondering what sort of in-game explanation can be given. That's what I'm having a much harder time with.
I like your suggestion, though, of adding extraordinary features. I suppose that if they're subtle enough but still exotic (like blue hair or red eyes or a slightly metallic sheen to the skin), then it would fit some of the ideas I have.
Creative Director
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Think of a "Fantastical creature" as ANY creature that, if it showed up in a movie, would require some form of special effects or makeup to include.
An eidolon can't look like a person (since that route is for the Leadership feat) and it can't look like a real-world (even an extinct) animal (that route is for the animal companion class ability). It's important PURELY as a way to keep the eidolon's flavor from drifting into the territory of other classes.
In the end, it's up to the GM to decide what is and isn't fantastical. In Golarion, this means your eidolon wouldn't look like an animal or any of the core PC races, basically.
It's important PURELY as a way to keep the eidolon's flavor from drifting into the territory of other classes.
Well, that's a good explanation for why that rule was put there. Thanks for that bit of insight.
Still, I'd like some reason within the context of the game. Just as characters don't talk about how many hit points and feats they have, they also wouldn't talk about the flavour of their classes. So how would the characters themselves (or knowledgeable NPCs) explain it? It's cool that it's open for GMs to figure out on their own, but I'm a little stumped. If anyone has suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
Think of a "Fantastical creature" as ANY creature that, if it showed up in a movie, would require some form of special effects or makeup to include.
In the end, it's up to the GM to decide what is and isn't fantastical. In Golarion, this means your eidolon wouldn't look like an animal or any of the core PC races, basically.
By the way, I didn't mention it in my last post, but I found those two points above to be helpful. Thanks again.
Think of a "Fantastical creature" as ANY creature that, if it showed up in a movie, would require some form of special effects or makeup to include.
An eidolon can't look like a person (since that route is for the Leadership feat) and it can't look like a real-world (even an extinct) animal (that route is for the animal companion class ability). It's important PURELY as a way to keep the eidolon's flavor from drifting into the territory of other classes.
In the end, it's up to the GM to decide what is and isn't fantastical. In Golarion, this means your eidolon wouldn't look like an animal or any of the core PC races, basically.
I would point out a certain PFS adventure path... spoiler alert
Where the summoner's Eidolon looked like a "perfect" example of the summoner.
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An eidolon can't look like a person (since that route is for the Leadership feat) and it can't look like a real-world (even an extinct) animal.
NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not Mr Bigsley!
My beautiful orangutan buddy!
What if I give him a top hat and cane?
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An eidolon can't look like a person (since that route is for the Leadership feat) and it can't look like a real-world (even an extinct) animal.NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not Mr Bigsley!
My beautiful orangutan buddy!
What if I give him a top hat and cane?
As long as his fur neon blue, 2 feet long and he has too many eyes then you might be able to get this to fly.
What about a dwarven speed-swimmer?
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Still, I'd like some reason within the context of the game. Just as characters don't talk about how many hit points and feats they have, they also wouldn't talk about the flavour of their classes. So how would the characters themselves (or knowledgeable NPCs) explain it?
Every eidolon is an aspect of a single, massively complex, outsider. Very little of its own will is known, and its goals are deep and unfathomable. But one thing it seems to want: the people native to the planes where it manifests must never think of it as belonging there. Some day, perhaps in a distant century (or perhaps not), it will take action and its purpose will be served by having eidolons which remind the people of Golarion daily that there exist things greater than humans, and far stranger than horses and snakes and eagles.
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Every eidolon is an aspect of a single, massively complex, outsider. Very little of its own will is known, and its goals are deep and unfathomable. But one thing it seems to want: the people native to the planes where it manifests must never think of it as belonging there. Some day, perhaps in a distant century (or perhaps not), it will take action and its purpose will be served by having eidolons which remind the people of Golarion daily that there exist things greater than humans, and far stranger than horses and snakes and eagles.
Still, I'd like some reason within the context of the game. Just as characters don't talk about how many hit points and feats they have, they also wouldn't talk about the flavour of their classes. So how would the characters themselves (or knowledgeable NPCs) explain it?
Aspects of The Far Being Retzglaran
Every eidolon is an aspect of a single, massively complex, outsider. Very little of its own will is known, and its goals are deep and unfathomable. But one thing it seems to want: the people native to the planes where it manifests must never think of it as belonging there. Some day, perhaps in a distant century (or perhaps not), it will take action and its purpose will be served by having eidolons which remind the people of Golarion daily that there exist things greater than humans, and far stranger than horses and snakes and eagles.
Still, I'd like some reason within the context of the game. Just as characters don't talk about how many hit points and feats they have, they also wouldn't talk about the flavour of their classes. So how would the characters themselves (or knowledgeable NPCs) explain it?
Thanks for the response. I have to admit, though, I'm not sure if it works. According to the criteria James gave, an eidolon can look like a centaur or a dragon, yet they're both native to the material plane. It's a cool idea, but it doesn't quite explain it in the way I'm looking for.
However, you've given me an idea. Perhaps any given campaign can have a very limited set of creatures that an eidolon can look like. The GM and players should discuss this so that everyone can play what they want. Then the GM can come up with a different story for each of the forms allowed. For example, let's start with genies and dragons. Perhaps the eidolons that look like genies come from elemental spirits, while the ones that look like dragons are all aspects of Io (or Bahamut, or Tiamat, or whatever), and no other types of eidolons are allowed. But you can still be flexible. Let's say that a new player wants an eidolon that looks like a demon. There are two ways to go. Either you can say that the eidolon is based on a corrupted elemental spirit (somewhat like the 4e story about demons), or some new outsiders (the demons) have made their own bonds with summoners. What I like about this is that it explains why no eidolons look like humans or horses (none of them are based on this sort of identity), yet it doesn't have to explain why everything but those creature types are allowed (you're working with a limited set at any one time).
Thanks for helping spark that idea, Chris. :)
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I think the goal is exactly as said before: to prevent someone from saying like, ok, my Eidolon looks JUST LIKE ME or even worse JUST LIKE THE KING or even PRETTY MUCH JUST LIKE A PEASANT RAWR PEASANT CLAW/CLAW/BITE!
Should I come up with a summoner (not likely for some time, still have a few CRB classes to try before hitting the APG), his eidolon will likely be a gnome, erm goblin... Probably named spanky. He will wear a cape, and nothing else.
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The description that i came up with for my gnome summoner's eidolon was a scaly purple and blue hounddog type critter with a dragon type neck,a huge toothy mouth and a sadle shaped backbone area. this just reflected the evolutions i gave it, reach, higher dmg dice on attack, mount training and some of its natural abilities, like natural armor and the base quadroped form. I beleive a ssome posts have already said it was mostly flavor text with the rules to prevent abuse. It cannot look like the BBG or the King or something like that.
I think the goal is exactly as said before: to prevent someone from saying like, ok, my Eidolon looks JUST LIKE ME or even worse JUST LIKE THE KING or even PRETTY MUCH JUST LIKE A PEASANT RAWR PEASANT CLAW/CLAW/BITE!
I think.
You can't have the eidolon look like a specific individual.
My group's gnome summoner has an eidolon that is something of a cross between a weasel and a rattlesnake with the spiney jaw ridges and reticulated underplating of an armadillo lizard....and it oinks like a pig...
If you can find it, the old Palladium RPG, Nightbane (originally Nightspawn) has extensive random creation tables for fantastic creatures.
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If you can find it, the old Palladium RPG, Nightbane (originally Nightspawn) has extensive random creation tables for fantastic creatures.
Why do I get the feeling I know exactly why they changed the name to Nightbane and why do I suddenly hope someone whose name rhymes with Modd TacFarlane is stricken with explosive diarrhea right this moment?
If you can find it, the old Palladium RPG, Nightbane (originally Nightspawn) has extensive random creation tables for fantastic creatures.
I loved the artwork in that game, my copy disappeared during a move from Florida to California :(
Greg
here is a bit of inspiration for an eidolon
a 6 foot tall emperor penguin with 6 black feathery seraphim style wings and fringes along the edge of it's flippers that work like crude fingers. said penguin wields an 8 foot long holy greatsword, speaks Aramaeic (did i get the spelling right?), overuses the word Infadel, has the aura of an archon, and wears a robe. said "penguin" probably has the "smite" evolution.
My PFS eidolon looks like a massive clockwork robot, pumping oil and steam through piston-driven joints. My summoner styles himself as an inventor and "natural philosopher". I haven't had anyone argue to me that a robot-like eidolon isn't a "fantastical creature."
Think of a "Fantastical creature" as ANY creature that, if it showed up in a movie, would require some form of special effects or makeup to include.
An eidolon can't look like a person (since that route is for the Leadership feat) and it can't look like a real-world (even an extinct) animal (that route is for the animal companion class ability). It's important PURELY as a way to keep the eidolon's flavor from drifting into the territory of other classes.
In the end, it's up to the GM to decide what is and isn't fantastical. In Golarion, this means your eidolon wouldn't look like an animal or any of the core PC races, basically.
I would point out a certain PFS adventure path... spoiler alert
** spoiler omitted **
Internal consistency? Not in my Pathfinder.
Think of a "Fantastical creature" as ANY creature that, if it showed up in a movie, would require some form of special effects or makeup to include.
An eidolon can't look like a person (since that route is for the Leadership feat) and it can't look like a real-world (even an extinct) animal (that route is for the animal companion class ability). It's important PURELY as a way to keep the eidolon's flavor from drifting into the territory of other classes.
In the end, it's up to the GM to decide what is and isn't fantastical. In Golarion, this means your eidolon wouldn't look like an animal or any of the core PC races, basically.
My eidolon looked like a slightly draconic Jurassic Park raptor during his first few levels, so if all the feathered raptor stuff going around today is to be believed then he definitely still qualified as a "Fantastical Creature" ;)
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An eidolon can't look like a person (since that route is for the Leadership feat) and it can't look like a real-world (even an extinct) animal.NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not Mr Bigsley!
My beautiful orangutan buddy!
What if I give him a top hat and cane?
THEY CAN HAVE MY MR. BELVEDERE EIDOLON WHEN THEY PRY IT FROM MY COLD DEAD MANIPULATORY ORGANS!
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Every eidolon is an aspect of a single, massively complex, outsider.
Bah! Everyone knows that eidolons are manifestations of a summoner's overweening id, a Jungian protection drawing on the power of the collective unconscious to take physical form. This is why an eidolon vanishes when a summoner loses consciousness--it is required to return to the dream realms without the summoner's volition to keep the metapsychic channel open. Eidolons look "fantastical" because they are a hodgepodge jumble drawn from the summoner's own inner world. No such thing would look "normal" to someone else, since their own ego would reject it as "other" or "abject."
I will thank you to not bring your planar cosmological arguments into a discussion that clearly hinges around philosophical constants. ;)
Chris Mortika has given me a great solution. A player is creating a Summoner and wants her E to be a collection of castoff magical gear, an in-game race I already have. The 'race' just drew a new origins story.
In describing the summoner's eidolon, the APG says that "The eidolon’s physical appearance is up to the summoner, but it always appears as some sort of fantastical creature." What counts as a "fantastical creature"? Does this mean that I can't have an eidolon that looks like a human or a horse? What about an elf? In the real world, we consider elves fantastical, but do they count as such in a fantasy world? But if we're thinking in terms of a fantasy world, what does count as fantastical? And if we do assume that an eidolon cannot look like a human, what would be the reason behind this?
\They are saying they can only look like pre-thought up creatures. you are not allowed to use your imagination in any way.\
If you can find it, the old Palladium RPG, Nightbane (originally Nightspawn) has extensive random creation tables for fantastic creatures.Why do I get the feeling I know exactly why they changed the name to Nightbane and why do I suddenly hope someone whose name rhymes with Modd TacFarlane is stricken with explosive diarrhea right this moment?
Well, he did at least get hit by the Twisted Curse, if that's any consolation.
Not to mention the judgement against him in favor of a certain dreamy comic book writer.
I guess that would be Karma, yes?
I'd like to someday make a summoner who's basically a down-on-his-luck pirate that sold his soul to the Pathfinder Pirate Deity to get him off a desert island after he was marooned by his traitorous crew. The pirate deity then grants him a demonic pirate ship, which unfortunately starts off about four feet long, with tiny little cannons and tiny demon-pirates that run around on it to complete their chores. Mr. Pirate can ride around on this tiny little pirate ship, though not effectively, and eventually the pirate ship will gain the ability to burrow and fly. All of its attacks (preferably with reach) are either described as very short-range cannons, demon pirates jumping off and attacking enemies, or just ramming into the targets. As the ship gets bigger, eventually Mr. Pirate can ride in it, though not comfortably (as at its biggest, the ship will be huge- not quite the size he's used to, but he'll be able to squeeze through the door to get to his quarters just fine.