When casting a selective spell with an area effect, you can choose a number of targets in the area..."
The word choice in the description of the Selective Spell feat has made me confused about exactly which spells this metamagic feat can be applied to. My confusions springs from the fact that spells that Target creatures or objects, spells that affect an Area, and spells that create or summon an Effect are mutually exclusive categories of spells, but all three of those key words are used in the feat's description.
According to the first clause of the description, this feat can be applied to spells "with an area effect." This phrase could be understood in multiple ways. It could mean 1) spells that affect an Area, like fireball, 2) spells that create an Effect that spreads over an area, like fog cloud, or 3) both of these.
The next clause calls for the caster to "choose a number of targets in the area." The problem is that Area spells and Effect spells do not have targets. An Area spell may affect creatures or objects in its area, but it does not target them. Even Area spells such as glitterdust that affect creatures or objects directly (like targeted spells), do not target those creatures or objects, they merely affect them. Likewise, creatures within a spell-created cloud or fog--Effect spells that spread over an area--are subject to the effects of the cloud or fog, but they are not targeted. Since Area spells and Effect spells do not have targets, a strict reading of this feat means that Selective Spell does not work at all.
If the description of the Selective Spell feat had used the words "creatures or objects" in place of the word "targets," I would be a lot less confused about this. There would still be the issue of the exact meaning of "spell with an area effect," but that is minor compared to the target issue.
So, I would appreciate an official answer if I can get one. Exactly which spells or which categories of spells can the Selective Spell metamagic feat legally be applied to?
You really don't need official verification here.
Benefit: When casting a selective spell with an area effect, you can choose a number of targets in the area equal to the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type.
Normally, you don't choose targets within the area of an area effect spell, this overrules that general rule and allows you to choose targets to exclude.
Spells that normally target creatures are not affected by this feat, last sentence:Spells that do not have an area of effect do not benefit
from this feat.
And besides, you can already exclude creatures with spells that require targets. You simply don't target them.
btw Gorbacz, the whole Antimagic Field is ridiculous.
Here's why:
Core p.214: If the target of a spell is yourself (the Target line of
the spell description includes “You”), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The saving throw and spell resistance lines are omitted from such spells.
This implies that you must be a target.
But beyond that, it defies logic that you can exclude yourself from a spell that is centered on you.
That makes no sense whatsoever IMO.
btw Gorbacz, the whole Antimagic Field is ridiculous.
Here's why:
Core p.214: If the target of a spell is yourself (the Target line of
the spell description includes “You”), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The saving throw and spell resistance lines are omitted from such spells.This implies that you must be a target.
But beyond that, it defies logic that you can exclude yourself from a spell that is centered on you.
That makes no sense whatsoever IMO.
It does. +1 gorbacz.
How helpful.
Would you like to expound on that?
Come and Get Me (Ex): While raging, as a free action the barbarian may leave herself open to attack while preparing devastating counterattacks. Enemies gain a +4 bonus on attack and damage rolls against the barbarian until the beginning of her next turn, but every attack against the barbarian provokes an attack of opportunity from her, which is resolved prior to resolving each enemy attack. A barbarian
must be at least 12th level to select this rage power.
Robilar's Gambit: At the start of your action, you can adopt a
fighting stance that exposes you to harm but allows you to take advantage of your opponents’ exposed defenses as they reach in to attack you. Anyone who strikes at you gains a +4 bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against you. In return, they provoke attacks of opportunity from you each time they swing. Resolve your attack of opportunity after your foe’s attack.
heh, not quite cut and paste, but may as well be.
btw, agreed. Here's the feat for those playing at home:
SCULPT SPELL [METAMAGIC]
You can alter the area of your spells.
Prerequisite: Any metamagic feat.
Benefit: You can modify an area spell by changing the area’s shape to either a cylinder (10-foot radius, 30 feet high), a 40-foot cone, four 10-foot cubes, a ball (20-foot-radius spread), or a 120-foot line. The sculpted spell works normally in all respects except for its shape. For example, a lightning bolt whose area is changed to a ball deals the same amount of damage, but affects a 20-foot-radius spread. A sculpted spell uses a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.
There was a rather large thread on this before, and it was marked as a FAQ candidate. Basically, the wording is wonky, and it can be interpreted in a way that makes this feat rather overpowered when used in conjunction with, say, Antimagic Field.
Here's to hoping for a quick errata.
Where do old Rules Questions threads go? I searched and could not find the previous thread on Selective Spell.
try the archives.
here's the link btw: Cheater of Mystra
It does. +1 gorbacz.btw Gorbacz, the whole Antimagic Field is ridiculous.
Here's why:
Core p.214: If the target of a spell is yourself (the Target line of
the spell description includes “You”), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The saving throw and spell resistance lines are omitted from such spells.This implies that you must be a target.
But beyond that, it defies logic that you can exclude yourself from a spell that is centered on you.
That makes no sense whatsoever IMO.
How helpful.
Would you like to expound on that?
Seriously, are you going to respond? Or just make a dismissive statement with no reasoning or argument behind it?
try the archives.
here's the link btw: Cheater of Mystra
Ah ha. Thank you for the link.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Hi there.
While looking for something else I was going through some APG turnover files from last December and I happened upon a surprising discovery (well, inasmuch as discovering you had forgotten something counts as a discovery): I was, in fact, the one who sent in the nefarious Selective Spell feat!
I intended Selective Spell to allow friendly fireballs, not semipermeable solid fog... :) I am not an official errata giver, so nothing I suggest has any impact on PFS or official interpretations, but if you are looking for the designer's Rule As Intended as a suggestion for your home game, here it is:
Replace the first sentence:
When casting a selective spell with an area effect, you can choose a number of targets in the area...
With this sentence:
When casting a selective spell with an area effect and an instantaneous duration, you can choose a number of targets in the area...
That's the designer's RAI. Take it as you will.
P.S. Yes, this does leave ambiguous the "area effect" spell vs. "spell that affects an area" question. My opinion on that would be, if the spell description says Area, it works. If it says Target or Effect it doesn't, even though an Effect can Affect an Area.
I was, in fact, the one who sent in the nefarious Selective Spell feat!
Please stand still while I ready the stones.
Hey, I copped to it. It was the LG thing to do.I was, in fact, the one who sent in the nefarious Selective Spell feat!Please stand still while I ready the stones.
Oh, a paladin, double fun.
All hail Cheliax!
*throws the first stone*