How do you roleplay your Eidolon?


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Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

One of my players is playing a Summoner. She's familiar with World of Warcraft and plays her Eidolon like a Hunter's Pet, ie she sends it into combat and that's it. To date the Eidolon has not displayed any discernable personality.
So I’m wondering is that the way the Eidolon should be played? Or are players out there actually given their summoned companion a personality of its own? If so I’d love to hear about your Eidolon's personality.
Reebo

Dark Archive

I'm interested in seeing which direction this thread goes because, I too am having a very similar issue with one of my players.

The Player is playing the PC just fine with depth and all that but the eidolon seems to be left by the wayside when it comes down to RP.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

The Eidolon is an NPC, a sliver of a vast outsider. It is not, for example, part of the Summoner PC's soul or persona, under his absolute control.

It's up to the DM to role-play the Eidolon, just as with every other NPC.

At least that's my take on it. (I also make druid PCs use Handle Animal when they want their companion animals to do things beyond their learned tricks, so that might put things in perspective.)

Dark Archive

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So far, the DMs I've used Eidolons (or Druids, Sorcerers or Wizards, for that matter, with Companions and / or Familiars) have allowed me to run them. When I've DM'd, I've only occasionally 'usurped control' by having someone's Familiar make a snarky aside, or someone's Companion reveal something that it discovered via a Perception-type roll, but otherwise done the same.

I've played two different Summoner / Eidolon pairs so far, and I prefer having a seperate Alt ID for the Eidolon, in PBP, for when I want to post the Eidolon's point-of-view.

The one still active is primarily defined by being a combination of petulant, overly-self-absorbed and perpetually hungry, and, until recently, got along better with several of the other party members than with his Summoner, whom he was overly critical of (feeling that the Summoner didn't treat him with the respect he deserved).

The other regarded itself as a shadowy-mentor, equal parts the dark side of the Summoner's soul, and otherworldly entity with alien and ancient wisdom (it rationalized it's relatively low Int score as a function of it's alien and otherworldly mindset, dismissing the stuff it didn't understand as 'mundane, earthly matters, of no import to a creature of the Outer Dark'), something that spoke in whispers and delivered advice (often unasked for) and sinister guidance to it's Summoner. While both Summoner and Eidolon were Neutral, I played the Summoner as trending towards Good, and the Eidolon as trending towards evil, and often urging the Summoner to more violent or morally dubious actions.


My roleplaying of the Summoner and the Eidolon reduces to "Doombolt, I choose you" and "Pi-Ka-Chu".
Now seriously I'm having problems roleplaying both the Summoner and the Eidolon.

Sovereign Court

Chris Mortika wrote:
The Eidolon is an NPC, a sliver of a vast outsider. It is not, for example, part of the Summoner PC's soul or persona, under his absolute control.
APG pg.54 wrote:

While many who dabble in the arcane become adept at beckoning monsters from the farthest reaches of the planes, none are more skilled at it than the summoner. This practitioner of the arcane arts forms a close bond with one particular outsider, known as an eidolon, who gains power as the summoner becomes more proficient at his summoning. Over time, the two become linked, eventually sharing a shard of the same soul. But this power comes with a price: the summoner's spells and abilities are limited due to his time spent enhancing the power and exploring the nature of his eidolon.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Diction, I believe we're agreed. Over time, a dwarf monk ends up becoming an outsider, but he doesn't start out that way.

Sovereign Court

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Chris Mortika wrote:
Diction, I believe we're agreed. Over time, a dwarf monk ends up becoming an outsider, but he doesn't start out that way.

Actually I disagree with you. Any DM that attempts to remove control of a part of a character that I have spent time and effort crafting and building a background for will find himself/herself absent one player.

My Eidolon may be my bound slave, a supernatural pet, an otherworldly influence seeking to tempt me into holy/nefarious actions, my ideal mate drawn from beyond the aether, etc. Regardless, the being is an important part of my character and the relationship they share will be dictated by me, as it is my contribution to the campaign/storyline.

It is the responsibility of the player to provide a personality for this intelligent being that contributes to the dynamic of the party.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Diction wrote:

Actually I disagree with you. Any DM that attempts to remove control of a part of a character that I have spent time and effort crafting and building a background for will find himself/herself absent one player.

My Eidolon may be my bound slave, a supernatural pet, an otherworldly influence seeking to tempt me into holy/nefarious actions, my ideal mate drawn from beyond the aether, etc. Regardless, the being is an important part of my character and the relationship they share will be dictated by me, as it is my contribution to the campaign/storyline.

Diction,

There's an attitude that I've read on these boards for the last several months, and its gaining in frequency. I'm going to pick on you for a moment, not because you're a particularly egregious exemplar, but because you're handy. Please understand that I'm addressing an issue larger than you.

You've stated "Any GM that attempts to remove control of a part of a character ... will find himself absent one player."

First Issue

Really? You'll just walk? Rather than try to reach a compromise, or talk to the GM, or just play another damn character that doesn't cause problems? Do you place the same conditions on your friends in other social activities?

I keep running into people on these board who make this kind of threat, and it gets tiresome after a while.

Second Issue

But he isn't removing control, because you never had control in the first place. That's what the "NP" in NPC stands for.

I've also read people saying the same thing about cohorts. "Well, I paid a Feat for my cohort, so if the DM tried to exercise control over the cohort's actions, I would quit!" Others have said the same thing about followers.

And, I understand that, in some campaigns, the DM passes on control of cohorts, hirelings, and any other NPC to the concerned player. That's not my style: it almost always leads to the cohort being, literally, "of one mind" with the PC, and I think that loses all the drama inherent in the relationship. However, it appears to be the way the Paizo staff members play. (Having said that, perhaps that's self-selecting: professional designers and developers are probably better at role-playing cohorts with the kind of self-interest that keeps the relationship interesting.)

Let's say you decided that your character was the rightful prince of a near-by kingdom, forced into exile by a wicked vizier. When it came time for the confrontation, would you say: "That vizier is an important part of my character and the relationship they share will be dictated by me, as it is my contribution to the campaign / storyline."

If so, and if you threatened to take your ball and go home if I didn't let you have your way, I'd see you to the door.

Diction wrote:
It is the responsibility of the player to provide a personality for this intelligent being that contributes to the dynamic of the party.

That's one playstyle. I daresay you won't find support for it in the rules.

And in this case, the OP has noted that the player doesn't seem to have invested any effort in providing such a personality. In which case, I suggest, the GM do his job and role-play the NPC.

Sovereign Court

Chris Mortika wrote:

You've stated "Any DM that attempts to remove control of a part of a character ... will find himself absent one player."

But he isn't removing control, because you never had control in the first place. That's what the "NP" in NPC stands for.

1) Find me a quote in the rules or from the Paizo staff that states my Eidolon is an NPC and I will mail you a picture of me burning my APG.

2) Under the Leadership Feat, both Cohorts and followers ARE acknowledged as being NPCs, the Eidolon is not stated anywhere as being an NPC, neither are summoned monsters, familiars, animal companions, or the paladin's mount.

Chris Mortika wrote:
Let's say you decided that your character was the rightful prince of a near-by kingdom, forced into exile by a wicked vizier. When it came time for the confrontation, would you say: "That vizier is an important part of my character and the relationship they share will be dictated by me, as it is my contribution to the campaign / storyline."

Again, that is an NPC, I don't recall NPCs being listed as a defining feature of my class that I am allowed to craft and have gain of level of synchronization with in the same way as a druid/ranger/paladin/wizard/sorcerer/summoner.

Chris Mortika wrote:
If so, and if you threatened to take your ball and go home if I didn't let you have your way, I'd see you to the door.

I'd have already walked out on you.

Shadow Lodge

I'm going to agree with Diction about the Eidolon not being an NPC. Nowhere have I read that that is true.

I have a pseudodragon Summoner that is currently using his Eidolon as a cover. Cloaked and hooded so no one can see what it looks like, my pseudodragon sits on his shoulder pikachu-style and uses his telepathy to make it sound like the Eidolon is the one talking.

Sovereign Court

[/derail]

I roleplay my Summoner & Eidolon in a manner that nods at the tale of Pygmalion and Galatea. My summoner (Twil of Taldor) is a devout worshiper of Shelyn that sought guidance in finding his one true love. Through much study and effort, he attempted communication with his goddess to make his appeal, eventually turning to the study of conjuration in an attempt to try and summon the Goddess herself into his presence (very very low wisdom coupled with and 'average' intelligence made this appear like a winning idea) instead he summoned Lyst, an 'odd' woman that rarely spoke aloud, preferring to converse with her summoner through the Link that binds them to one another.

At first confused by her sudden appearance, the devout summoner believed that this was his reward from Shelyn, and that he has been unofficially inducted into the ranks of her clergy for his years of faithful service. After the initial awkwardness of teaching her about clothing (think of her actions as similar to Nell (from the movie of the same name) or Data (from Star Trek:TNG during his time among the colonies after he was first activated). Teaching her about the customs of a civilized society has truly become a trial of love.

Now he travels throughout the pathfinder society with his new belle, learning more about her as the two grow closer together through an arcane means he does not understand and spreading the word of Shelyn via interpretive dance.

Silver Crusade

Before this turns into a full-on flame war and destroys a useful thread, can I please return the discussion to how Eidolon's are to be roleplayed? Whether or not it's the player's or GM's responsibility, the question remains: Do Eidolons have feelings? Hopes, dreams, plans for the future? Or are they merely summoned figments of the Summoner's unconscious? They do have an INT of 7, so they are hardly Oscar Wilde, but they are certainly not animals.

As to the question of PC/NPC, are they under the direct control of the Summoner, or can they act independantly and under their own initiative? Suppose the Summoner is chatting up the local bar maid, and his Eidolon is waiting in the stables outside. Can it get bored? Would it chase rats, annoy the horses and amuse itself? Or does it merely wait until the Summoner has need of it, sitting quietly by itself?

What if it saw a thief going through the party's saddlebags? Would it necessarily warn the Summoner, or would it only do so if it was specifically told to guard?

As I see it, if the Eidolon only acts under the PC's control, whether directly ("attack that kobold"), or indirectly ("protect me"), thenit's part of the PC, and how the PC role plays it is part of how he role plays his character.

On the other hand, if the Eidolon is more independent, acting as a close friend of the PC, with that comes certain advantages (it will act in the PC's best interest, on it's own), but also with that comes the responsibilities inherent in maintaining a positive relationship with a thinking being. If it is truly capable of independent thought, and a player treats it merely like a clever golem, then I think the GM should cause that to have consequences, such as having the Eidolon sulk, or interpret orders as maliciously and literally as possible, within it's intelligence.

In other words, if the player gains the advantage of an independent, intelligent ally, then that has role playing responsibilities, just as if they chose to play a Paladin, but didn't want to role play an extremely lawful good character.

If the Eidolon works as just an extension of the caster, though, it should be treated as such, with no GM interference, but no expectation on the part of the player that the Eidolon will ever take one step beyond what it was explicitly told to do.

tl;dr: Eidolon's need to be worked out between the player and the GM in advance, so that both people are on the same page as to what the cornerstone of the class actually does.


uriel222 wrote:

Before this turns into a full-on flame war and destroys a prominent thread, can I please return the discussion to how Eidolon's are to be roleplayed? Whether or not it's the player's or GM's responsibility, the question remains: Do Eidolons have feelings? Hopes, dreams, plans for the future? Or are they merely summoned figments of the Summoner's unconscious? They do have an INT of 7, so they are hardly Oscar Wilde, but they are certainly not animals.

As to the question of PC/NPC, are they under the direct control of the Summoner, or can they act independantly and under their own initiative? Suppose the Summoner is chatting up the local bar maid, and his Eidolon is waiting in the stables outside. Can it get bored? Would it chase rats, annoy the horses and amuse itself? Or does it merely wait until the Summoner has need of it, sitting quietly by itself?

What if it saw a thief going through the party's saddlebags? Would it necessarily warn the Summoner, or would it only do so if it was specifically told to guard?

As I see it, if the Eidolon only acts under the PC's control, whether directly ("attack that kobold"), or indirectly ("protect me"), thenit's part of the PC, and how the PC role plays it is part of how he role plays his character.

On the other hand, if the Eidolon is more independent, acting as a close friend of the PC, with that comes certain advantages (it will act in the PC's best interest, on it's own), but also with that comes the responsibilities inherent in maintaining a positive relationship with a thinking being. If it is truly capable of independent thought, and a player treats it merely like a clever golem, then I think the GM should cause that to have consequences, such as having the Eidolon sulk, or interpret orders as maliciously and literally as possible, within it's intelligence.

In other words, if the player gains the advantage of an independent, intelligent ally, then that has role playing responsibilities, just as if they chose to play a Paladin, but didn't want to role...

+1

And FWIW I think the idea of the "Intelligent Ally" occasionally getting into trouble of it's own has real plot line hooks. I think it would be a real shame if a player gave up that opportunity for funny sideline adventures and memorable moments just for absolute control of another character. But that's just how I look at it.


When I was playing my summoner, I had ported my character from 3.5 (a malconvoker) into Pathfinder as a summoner. So, following that vein, my eidolon took the form of an ever-advancing devil. I roleplayed it as a creature that was separate from me but shackled to my will. It was malicious but in a scheming, "work-within-the-group" sort of way. I had total control of it.

That is until my GM arbitrarily and without explanation (ever) removed the eidolon. Period. Gone. I'm still a lil bitter... [/rant]

The Exchange

If my character summoned an eidolon primarily for combat, then it would follow that the shard of personality that it takes on would lean toward the action-oriented and violent side. I think I would have the eidolon be a mix of a smack-talking Macho Man Randy Savage, Ricky Bobby, and the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket. Playing this with a meek and shy summoner could be a humorous personality conflict, but not for just any group or type of game. Having a class ability that frequently takes center stage can quickly wear on your other PCs.

Sovereign Court

@uriel222
To be fair, my summoner's eidolon doesn't exactly return his affections, it's more of a one-way street where it finds his mannerisms odd. To put it more simply, my eidolon is closer to your first example rather than the second.

Although I am more than a little amused at the idea of my fuchsia skinned biped eidolon chasing rats in a barn, perhaps inadvertently knocking over an inconveniently placed lantern with her playful antics and causing a fire, forcing the summoner and eidolon to flee an angry mob. I would truly have the time of my life roleplaying the both of us in such a circumstance.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Wow... a few hot tempers and/or views on this topic.

Well... in the Kingmaker game I'm GM-ing every other Sunday, one of my player's is playing a Summoner and he more or less asked me to RP the eidolon (we have sort of based their relationship on the Ki-Rin/Shirei from the Twelve Kingdoms anime). I think I've mentioned this elsewhere.

But, that's how I'm running it/playing it in my game. And this has my player's approval... heck even his encouragement.

If a player in a new game I'd (theoretically) start-up wanted to play a summoner... but also wanted to RP his own eidolon... I'd have no problem with that, what so ever.

We had a cohort in my other (weekly/Monday) game. I did the RP for her as well... but the player did all her combat related stuff. Again, that worked for us. (It may be worth mentioning, this was a different player than the guy playing the summoner).

This has been my take as well as my two cents on the matter.

Peace.

Dean; The_Minstrel_Wyrm


I take a middle line with respect to player control of Eidolons, animal companions, cohorts and so forth. I generally let the player control their actions, but feel free to butt in and intervene if the player has their buddy do something that is simply not in character by saying something like: "Your animal companion balks from charging through the flames to attack the 20 foot tall demon all by his lonesome.", or "Your cohort declines the honor of opening the obviously trapped door for you while you hide behind the corner."

The main fallacies I see in roleplaying such companion creatures are:

1) Assuming too much intelligence for animal companions. A creature with an intelligence of 2 is pretty limited. It will primarily be acting only on instinct or on whatever commands/training have been given it. Independent thought/decision making ain't happening.

2) Assuming intelligent companions have no free will or personality of their own. They are definitely likely to back the player they are connected with in most things, but they aren't robots, and they definitely still have a strong sense of self-preservation.

As I read the summoner/eidolon relationship, I find it falls somewhat in between that of a summoned creature and a familiar or animal companion. I think it appropriate for the player to have pretty strong, if not absolute, control of it, but it is still intelligent, and it does have some semblance of free will, and might have some goals/agenda of its own. I think a lot will depend on how the relationship between the player and the eidolon develops. If the player cares about their eidolon, and works to help it develop and takes its health, safety and concerns into consideration, it will be very loyal and likely will not question commands often. If the player is callous with regard to the eidolon, treats it like a slave, and constantly ignores its wishes and/or throws it into danger carelessly, I can see a situation where as a DM I might start to intervene and cause it to balk at questionable commands. I see the summoner/eidolon relationship as being very, very intimate (keep your minds out of the gutter, children), when done well, with little need for DM intervention.

Sovereign Court

Brian Bachman wrote:
<Well thought out passage on summoners & eidolons>

That's generally the way my various DMs have treated the relationship. Much to the enjoyment of my groups as a whole.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Brian Bachman wrote:
<Well thought out passage on summoners & eidolons>
Diction wrote:
That's generally the way my various DMs have treated the relationship. Much to the enjoyment of my groups as a whole.

See? We are in agreement.


We had a Summoner in our group, a high-spirited halfling named Radley. His eidolon was named Larry, and was fairly obnoxious to anyone outside the party. Having the 'linked souls' of Radley and Larry allowed the player to have the aspects of one reflect the other, but warped in some benign ways.

- Radley loved to drink; Larry liked to steal beer and bathe in it.

- Radley was diabetic; Larry would only eat pie when in towns or inns (despite not requiring food, as an outsider being).

Things like that were fun, and gave a whole "buddy cop" vibe to the duo. Oh, and Larry was modeled on Stitch, from that Disney movie a few years back, if anyone remembers.


I think its very important to remember that Big E isn't a cohort or something. its the primary class feature that this *entire class* revolves around.

While I have no problem with the DM making the E occasionally quip or comment- the Eidolon does what the player says, 100% of the time. the E doesn't refuse to act, or decide to do something else. It does as it is told.

To do otherwise is tantamount to telling the wizard what spells to memorize or telling them what they can and can't cast at any given moment.

"Sorry Rogue, you can't Sneak Attack that mob. No, no particular reason, I just think it'd be more fun if you didn't do that."

Sorry- but I'll pass. if the DM wants to usurp control of it they should say so before hand so the player can select a different class.

-S


My Eidolon is going to be a planar dragon lord that resides in a separate dimension. He formed a contract with my characters family several generations back and still upholds the contract. The Eidolon's presence is simply my characters ability to draw the essence of the dragon lord to the prime material plane to aid him. As I level and get more evolutions I'll be able to draw more of his essence to my aid. That being said, occasionally the Dragon lord will have more pressing matters to attend to and as such sends members of his "staff" to assist me instead, which is the summon monster ability. I've been working on a list that has more "dragon" themed monsters to draw from. I'm still flushing out the motivations, rules and addendum's of the contract and the dragon lord but I do feel that the Eidolon should be more that just a "combat pet."

Scarab Sages

in the playtest I played a couple of summoners

the first one was a combat pet - similar to a druid companion - it did as it was told since it was summoned by my will to this plane
I have never seen a druid or any other pet class really roleplay their pet so why should a summoner?

the second one was Ripley & a baby alien queen - which I had mapped out to level 20 BTW - this pet had combat ability but I also wanted it to be more than just that & had devised a personality that would develop over time - yes i had mapped it out to level 20 but more roughly

I also didnt see anywhere that the rules say the eidolon was a npc so it is under control of the summoner

there is no reason why an eidolon has to be roleplayed - some groups may actually prefer it was not roleplayed since that means the player is almost playing to complete characters taking more than his fairshare of game time - others may find it more interesting & use the opportunity to roleplay eg make jokes with the eidlon at the summoners expense

I would prefer the later so long as the party was happy with this


I had an idea for a summoner brothel owner for a future npc. Biped eidolon built to be very fae-esque. Granted I envisioned it for a city setting. If it was a more rural setting...

Spoiler:
maybe a quadruped would be a better decision. ;-)

More seriously, I think that eidolon's can be a mine of great RP fun but, ultimately, it comes down to an individual group's play style. Personally, I like the idea of the GM not seizing control of my class features arbitrarily.

Silver Crusade

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Saedar wrote:

I had an idea for a summoner brothel owner for a future npc. Biped eidolon built to be very fae-esque. Granted I envisioned it for a city setting. If it was a more rural setting...

** spoiler omitted **

More seriously, I think that eidolon's can be a mine of great RP fun but, ultimately, it comes down to an individual group's play style. Personally, I like the idea of the GM not seizing control of my class features arbitrarily.

Make sure you give it tentacle attacks...


I play mine like the dog off of UP. The animated Movie. It brings alot of laughs to the table. Stuff like "Hello Elf Women." and "My master says that you are ugly". It is alot of fun.

Scarab Sages

Can Eidolons talk, for that matter?

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Salovs wrote:
I play mine like the dog off of UP. The animated Movie. It brings alot of laughs to the table. Stuff like "Hello Elf Women." and "My master says that you are ugly". It is alot of fun.

Now that's awesome. lol

Seriously though I can see how it may be hard for some players to effectively roleplay two characters with distinct personality. I think the Summoner is going to remain one of those classes that groups interpret differently. I can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing though.

Liberty's Edge

Diction wrote:
Actually I disagree with you. Any DM that attempts to remove control of a part of a character that I have spent time and effort crafting and building a background for will find himself/herself absent one player.

+1

I had a recent problem with this at a con, actually.

To the above poster that said their summoner treats it like a hunter pet- that's acceptable, though I think the player is really missing out. You can certainly give it mental commands as free actions, and of course it speaks and understands all languages you do. I would suggest having some NPCs engage the Eidolon in a conversation, and see where that goes- basically, coax some roleplay out and the character will normally develop a personality for it.

Quote:
Do Eidolons have feelings? Hopes, dreams, plans for the future? Or are they merely summoned figments of the Summoner's unconscious?

They are outsiders, or fractions thereof. They certainly can have all of these things. They have an alignment, after all. While you could CLAIM your eidolon is a figment of your unconscious, the rules don't say that (though, you could roll with that if everyone is ok with it).

Quote:
As to the question of PC/NPC, are they under the direct control of the Summoner, or can they act independantly and under their own initiative?

They should be acting on their own initiative, and can take commands through the link that they gain on creation (as a 1st level ability). Many DMs tie them to the summoner's initiative for simplicity at the start of combat, but properly speaking, they have their own initiative step, and the summoner's player should be controlling them normally.

Quote:
What if it saw a thief going through the party's saddlebags? Would it necessarily warn the Summoner, or would it only do so if it was specifically told to guard?

What would any other party member with an Int of 7 and a Wisdom of like 10 do? Probably bring that up, pronto. Probably via the mental link even.

Quote:
hat is until my GM arbitrarily and without explanation (ever) removed the eidolon. Period. Gone. I'm still a lil bitter... [/rant]

Did you get your spell levels back and at least turn back into a conjurer? A summoner who can't summon an Eidolon is a pretty bad class.

Quote:
Can Eidolons talk, for that matter?

Yes. They speak and understand all languages the summoner does. They have an Int of 7 baseline, though that COULD be increased in any of a few ways in addition to the normal ones. Since any alternate methods of increasing intelligence basically could otherwise be Strength, it's less common.


cfalcon wrote:
Did you get your spell levels back and at least turn back into a conjurer? A summoner who can't summon an Eidolon is a pretty bad class.

Erm, no. The GM and another player (multiclass bard/fighter/ranger...yeah) still thought I was a ridiculous powerhouse. The game is on hiatus now, shortly after I ended the GM's big fight with a well-placed Xill-induced paralysis on his BBEG, but only after he dispelled my first Xill, once again, arbitrarily and without mechanic. No save, SR check. Nothing. I was beginning to think I was being picked on. :)

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Saedar wrote:
cfalcon wrote:
Did you get your spell levels back and at least turn back into a conjurer? A summoner who can't summon an Eidolon is a pretty bad class.
Erm, no. The GM and another player (multiclass bard/fighter/ranger...yeah) still thought I was a ridiculous powerhouse. The game is on hiatus now, shortly after I ended the GM's big fight with a well-placed Xill-induced paralysis on his BBEG, but only after he dispelled my first Xill, once again, arbitrarily and without mechanic. No save, SR check. Nothing. I was beginning to think I was being picked on. :)

What?! That's ridiculous! At the current level of 2nd, my group's Eidolon is the first to go down in combat and the summoned creatures are lucky to last a round if they get targeted by enemies. Surely the power difference vs enemies at higher level isn't that different?

As for instant kill on a BBEG. I had a player's Jedi once crit the BBEG in the first round of combat, 20+ damage straight to Wound = dead. I had no problem with that, it was something the group still remembers fondly.
Your DM should man/woman up.
Reebo


Reebo Kesh wrote:
So I’m wondering is that the way the Eidolon should be played?

i would play it over the top gay

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A summoner I'm going to play in LoF.

My character is Ali-Ala Hakiim, a man who wants to open a magic item shop. A kind hearted man (but a cut-throat business man) he stumbled upon a lamp freeing and binding his Eidolon to him in his youth. Ali-Ala Hakim teaches his companion the difference between right and wrong.

The eidolon is Salim, once a proud and mighty Efreeti Shah. Thoroughly evil, and cruel he had many victories in the war between the Efreeti and the Djinn. That was until he destroyed a temple of Sarenrae, collapsing it on his Djinni foes. This drew the ire of the goddess and she sent her herald Bryla to the plane of fire. Salim looked upon Brila and cried burning tears, begging forgiveness and begging to be brought into the fold of Sarenrae. Brila pronounced that he should serve penance by serving a devout mortal. His power is shackled to the fate of the person who would find the lamp to which he was bound.

Salim is a proud, and often morally ambiguous entity (the habits of centuries die hardest), he is familiar with the workings of the planes (Knowledge (The Planes)) and is actually a little embarrassed about being seen by his former kin in his current form. He hopes to regain control of his old stomping grounds some day and convert his subjects to the worship of Sarenrae (if only he could grasp the whole redemption and kindness thing).

Silver Crusade

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

A summoner I'm going to play in LoF.

My character is Ali-Ala Hakiim, a man who wants to open a magic item shop. A kind hearted man (but a cut-throat business man) he stumbled upon a lamp freeing and binding his Eidolon to him in his youth. Ali-Ala Hakim teaches his companion the difference between right and wrong.

The eidolon is Salim, once a proud and mighty Efreeti Shah. Thoroughly evil, and cruel he had many victories in the war between the Efreeti and the Djinn. That was until he destroyed a temple of Sarenrae, collapsing it on his Djinni foes. This drew the ire of the goddess and she sent her herald Bryla to the plane of fire. Salim looked upon Brila and cried burning tears, begging forgiveness and begging to be brought into the fold of Sarenrae. Brila pronounced that he should serve penance by serving a devout mortal. His power is shackled to the fate of the person who would find the lamp to which he was bound.

Salim is a proud, and often morally ambiguous entity (the habits of centuries die hardest), he is familiar with the workings of the planes (Knowledge (The Planes)) and is actually a little embarrassed about being seen by his former kin in his current form. He hopes to regain control of his old stomping grounds some day and convert his subjects to the worship of Sarenrae (if only he could grasp the whole redemption and kindness thing).

Just throwings this out theres: [/skwisgar]

Spoiler:
What if Hakiim is actually a fragment of Salim's soul, split off and reincarnated in mortal form by Sarenrae? Possibly makes Hakiim an example of what Salim could have been under different circumstances, and thus the ideal choice to lead Salim fully down the road of redemption. Maybe they'll find out, maybe they won't. Maybe they'll eventually be merged as one when Hakiim finally croaks, or maybe they'll be split into two beings permanently.

Just kind of popped in my head while working on an NPC summoner and reading this. ;)


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

A summoner I'm going to play in LoF.

My character is Ali-Ala Hakiim, a man who wants to open a magic item shop. A kind hearted man (but a cut-throat business man) he stumbled upon a lamp freeing and binding his Eidolon to him in his youth. Ali-Ala Hakim teaches his companion the difference between right and wrong.

The eidolon is Salim, once a proud and mighty Efreeti Shah. Thoroughly evil, and cruel he had many victories in the war between the Efreeti and the Djinn. That was until he destroyed a temple of Sarenrae, collapsing it on his Djinni foes. This drew the ire of the goddess and she sent her herald Bryla to the plane of fire. Salim looked upon Brila and cried burning tears, begging forgiveness and begging to be brought into the fold of Sarenrae. Brila pronounced that he should serve penance by serving a devout mortal. His power is shackled to the fate of the person who would find the lamp to which he was bound.

Salim is a proud, and often morally ambiguous entity (the habits of centuries die hardest), he is familiar with the workings of the planes (Knowledge (The Planes)) and is actually a little embarrassed about being seen by his former kin in his current form. He hopes to regain control of his old stomping grounds some day and convert his subjects to the worship of Sarenrae (if only he could grasp the whole redemption and kindness thing).

~whistles~ AWESOME!!!


My brother is playing a Summoner. His Eidolon's name is Fluffy and he describes it as looking like the Bandersnatch from Alice in Wonderland. Fluffy doesn't talk, but he is a very good intimidator. Fluffy is one part guard dog and one part companion.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

A summoner I'm going to play in LoF.

My character is Ali-Ala Hakiim, a man who wants to open a magic item shop. A kind hearted man (but a cut-throat business man) he stumbled upon a lamp freeing and binding his Eidolon to him in his youth. Ali-Ala Hakim teaches his companion the difference between right and wrong.

The eidolon is Salim, once a proud and mighty Efreeti Shah. Thoroughly evil, and cruel he had many victories in the war between the Efreeti and the Djinn. That was until he destroyed a temple of Sarenrae, collapsing it on his Djinni foes. This drew the ire of the goddess and she sent her herald Bryla to the plane of fire. Salim looked upon Brila and cried burning tears, begging forgiveness and begging to be brought into the fold of Sarenrae. Brila pronounced that he should serve penance by serving a devout mortal. His power is shackled to the fate of the person who would find the lamp to which he was bound.

Salim is a proud, and often morally ambiguous entity (the habits of centuries die hardest), he is familiar with the workings of the planes (Knowledge (The Planes)) and is actually a little embarrassed about being seen by his former kin in his current form. He hopes to regain control of his old stomping grounds some day and convert his subjects to the worship of Sarenrae (if only he could grasp the whole redemption and kindness thing).

Just throwings this out theres: [/skwisgar]

** spoiler omitted **

Just kind of popped in my head while working on an NPC summoner and reading this. ;)

A very interesting take. We'll see how it plays out in game.

By the way in reference to a skwisgar reference: \m/


Were I to play a Summoner, I'd make sure first to work it out with the DM. I'd hope to get about the same control over the eidolon as I do over a PC where I dictate the actions, thoughts and feeling of the creature, but the DM determines what happens in the world and how that affects my eidolon. The DM could, as with any PC character, usurp control for small periods of time for story purposes or spell effects or even environmental effects, all of which are perfectly normal (eidolon or PC.) The DM could say something like "your eidolon sniffs the air and you feel its attitude shift to suspicious." But other than small things like that, I'd hope that the Eidolon and it's personality were mine to express.

Anyway, that being said, I'd love to play a Summoner who was born mid plane shift, and the eidolon is literally a piece of his soul left in the astral plane that grew sentience and sought him out. In that case, I'd probably play the evolutionist archetype and have both the eidolon and the summoner change personality quirks often as the eidolon changes shape. I'd roleplay the eidolon as having a much different personality than the summoner at all times, even as their personalities shift, but he'd nonetheless be a whole, distinctive individual if a bit odd, airy and socially inept.


Simulacrum for Sale wrote:
If my character summoned an eidolon primarily for combat, then it would follow that the shard of personality that it takes on would lean toward the action-oriented and violent side. I think I would have the eidolon be a mix of a smack-talking Macho Man Randy Savage, Ricky Bobby, and the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket. Playing this with a meek and shy summoner could be a humorous personality conflict, but not for just any group or type of game. Having a class ability that frequently takes center stage can quickly wear on your other PCs.

That's pretty similar to the roleplaying dynamic of my current summoner and eidolon. He's a bipedal falcata wielding fiend, disguised as a tiefling(through mundane means) and acts like an over the top evil jerk who only cares about completing his duty: Protecting the young woman who follows him.

She's a meek and fearful young sorceress who spooks easily and is often useless in a fight except when following his commands.

Spoiler:
She's actually a fearless and somewhat vindictive tactical mastermind who doesn't care who she hurts in her quest for survival.

I've also seen it played where the eidolon doesn't speak, but the player RPed out numerous one sided conversations between the summoner and eidolon, which always turned out hilarious.


When I played my Summoner (for all of about 3 or 4 sessions I believe before the game died), this is how it went. (For Carrion Crown, so I went a little dark)

The summoner herself was a wife and mother. Her husband had taken a short job to guide some people through a mountain cave system, no more than a few days time (travel to caves, through them and then back through and home). After being gone a few days more than expected, she goes to find him and instructs her son to stay home (he's 10 and should be able to handle this). But without her knowledge, he sneaks after her to follow out of concern for his dad.

She gets to the caves and goes in and finds her husband dead about halfway through. The group is missing but their stuff is scattered around. She collects his body and is heading out when she hears a scream. She runs forward and sees what appears to be her son's body (unknown if he's dead) being dragged into the darkness. She cracks mentally and starts staring blankly into the darkness below.

Then something arrives, she has no idea what it is, but it asks if it can join her. She turns and sees something that looks enough like her son (to her shattered psyche anyway) and accepts gratefully. She cares for it like she would her son and moves to a nearby town to pick up a new trade so they can survive.

Her son didn't speak much because he has a child-like voice but completely gravelly and distorted. It's obvious that he's unliked by the normal people in town, but he did generally care for people. When the party got him to talk, he admitted to them that he was not actually her son (painfully obvious from the huge black claws descending from the end of his clothing) and explained what happened. He also pleaded with them to not mention to her what had really happened, since he had tried once and she almost completely lost it.

So, I tried to make them separate, yet definitely part of the same concept and story. But since it's difficult to give equal time to two characters, I set it up so that he had a good reason not to talk often, but meaningfully so when he did.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I play my eidolon as having her own personality, and there is enough give and take between her and the summoner as to leave some doubt as to which one is in control -- in fact, I have on occasion had the two of them do something that was the eidolon's idea, with the summoner reluctantly going along because he did not want to make her unhappy.

Eidolons can definitely speak -- they know every language that their summoner does. In my game, getting the eidolon to shut up is the problem. On the other hand, since summoner and eidolon have a telepathic link, most arguments between them are not apparent to the rest of the party. Sometimes the appearance of disagreement is useful, even when the two are working together -- more than once I have had my eidolon threaten to eat an enemy while my summoner tried to "restrain" her.

Liberty's Edge

Heh had an a summoner i was playing once, Dasan the liar, go through the houses of perfection where he received instruction on how to be a summoner. Everyone else summoned terrible beasts and powerful beings from other worlds. However Dasan, being a consummate womanizer and only 15 years old brought forth Kekashi the full embodiment of his feminine side. My Dm roleplayed her as well a full grown woman who was stuck to a stereotypical 15 year old male. granted she loved battle and could be even more masculine than Dasan at times. Where he was a lover she was a fighter, where he loved books she loved swords. Everytime he "Leveled" her image changed to reflect how he saw women at the time. eventually she became an angel and would often argue with him, most often for sharing her senses while she was in the bath house with the other female party members.

She was not just an outsider she was part of his soul and so when he finally died in their final battle the two worked as one where she fought out side and he confronted the BBEG bluffing himself as an arc lord. (took the eye of the arc lord feat after learning some forbidden stuff from an arc lords son) He was the Consummate romantic and that character would not have been nearly as fun to play if my DM hadnt controlled Kekashi because really when im a player the last thing i want to do is control 2 characters because then in my opinion both suffer. by focusing solely on my summoner i was able to play off the dm and my eidelon and make the best character i could.

so just my two cents if you want to play it another way go for it


My take on the whole subject is simple really.

You have full control of what your Eidolon does (especially in combat), however it is an NPC, the same as a familiar or a Cohort taken through Leadership. The personality should be developed by the player, but RPed by the DM.

What he sayes, and how he reacts to events should be determined by the DM.

For instance. During Combat the Summoner should be able to communicate his wishes to his Eidolon. If somehow unable the DM should decide how the Eidolon reacts in Combat (based on the personality set by the player).If they are at an Inn all talking over the last adventure the conversation should be handled by the DM (again based on the personality set by the player).

After all. If I am playing a Summoner, I would want to have meaningful RP with my Eidolon. I want to discuss and maybe even argue about things. Its somewhat difficult to do that if your RPing both characters. If your a DM that has an Eidolon that doesn't seem to be presenting any meaningful RP... its because you aren't using him.


I have an amusing summoner for PFS. Brief rundown: Summoner is a halfling raised by Chelish nobles to be the son they couldn't have, and to remain that sun for a long time. Thus, he's a spoiled brat. However, when his summoner powers awakened his eidolon manifested as a 5' tall blue teddy bear with 10" reach and bite. (Think a combination of Fluffmodeus from Something Positive and the big bear from Goblins.)

His eidolon, (called Fluffmodeus after his inspiration) is his partner-in-crime. He acts like a seat, and growls at people who he doesn't like. He's also got Disable Device and Perception, and has taken role of bodyguard and accomplice.

Last time I palyed him, he started going off on how he was "upset the slaves were being mistreated since it obviously reduced their sale value, although if they acted up they deservered it..." and the Taldan ranger kept wanting to mouth off, but then would look at the growling blue teddy and decide against it. It made for some amusing RPing.


I've got a venerable Gnome with an Eidolon. His name is Breegin, the Eidolon is Qualot. Qualot is a terracotta warrior like creature with an internal furnace. He speaks like a pipe-organ in a deep rumble by alternating currents of air from his eyes to his mouth.

Breegin has been living quietly being dutiful but unnoticeable as a bit player in an evil empire, just attempting to stay alive. Qualot likes to smash things. In terms of RP, he plays quite like the incredible Hulk. He will occasionally pet rocks, and he thinks the party Grippli qualifies as fluffy. I suppose that gives him a bit of Lenny a la mice and men.

I have far more fun with the roleplay of Breegin, who plays, as the DM described, "A chaotic evil Colonel Sanders." So if you imagine an old southern gent (lawful neutral with possible evil leanings) with a Lenny-brained, rage-like hulk constructoid Outsider who is completely impassive... it makes for fun roleplay.

Silver Crusade

Dragonamedrake wrote:

My take on the whole subject is simple really.

You have full control of what your Eidolon does (especially in combat), however it is an NPC, the same as a familiar or a Cohort taken through Leadership. The personality should be developed by the player, but RPed by the DM.

What he sayes, and how he reacts to events should be determined by the DM.

This would actually be my preference as a Summoner player.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So it should be like playing 2 characters, then?


I prefer to let players control their Eidolons/Animal Companions/Cohorts/Familiars/Whatever.

As a GM, I have enough characters to worry about without adding class features to the list.

I don't allow Leadership, mostly because since my group can have up to 7 players, it'd slow down combat too much.

Right now I've a beef with Summoners, not because of their supposed power, but because not only it slows the game down even more than Leadership, but they're also full of bizarre rule exceptions that I find tiresome to keep track of...

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