Brawler barbarian with monk items questions

[Derekjr]

I am working up a rewrite of my barbarian using the Brawler rage powers in the APG but I wanted to make sure I really understood how everything works.

While raging, I currently do 2D4+20 with a crit range of 15-20 with my Falchion (power attack with a 2 handed weapon included).

Most of the questions revolve around the barbarian’s alternate class features in the APG Brawler and Brawler Greater.

Brawler lets you have the Improved unarmed strike feat while raging. If you already have the feat you do 1D6 instead of 1D3.

Brawler Greater gives TWF while raging.

Question #1: With improved unarmed strike, can I still use power attack as a two handed weapon? I am thinking of the double fisted downward bash to the top of the head. If this is possible, would this be on a “I moved more than a 5 foot step so I going to bash him with my one hit” or would it effect all hits as part of his full attack? I assume that it would not work with the Brawler Greater rage power as that basically gives you TWF. I don’t see a double fisted bash when using the TWF feat.

Question #2: Monks Robes. This gives you the damage of a lv 5 monk (1D8). How does that work with the Brawler rage power or the Improved unarmed strike feat? I assume that even with the monks robe, I would need the Improved unarmed strike feat so that I do not provoke AOO and the damage is lethal. HOWEVER, the brawler rage power gives me Improved unarmed strike while raging. How would this work together. Would I just be spending 13K to do 1D8 instead of 1D6 and an extra +1 to ac? Improved unarmed strike is still important if I want to hit without AOO when not raging, though.

Question #3: Elemental rage. The elemental rage lesser power lets me add 1D6 (elemental damage) to the unarmed strike (once per rage)? The normal elemental rage I can do an additional 1D6 every hit while raging? So using the Brawler and Monks robes, I could do 1D8 + 2D6 for one hit, and 1D8+1D6 for all the other hits (I did not add in strength and power attack damage) while raging, correct?

Question #4 Amulet of the mighty fist – wow. Did this change from the WOTC version? So using this item, I could add another (third) 1D6 element damage other than the two from the Elemental rage powers? How would this work with the furious weapon ability from the APG (melee weapon gets a +2 enhancement bonus while raging). Wouldn’t that be cheating to get the +2 bonus on an Amulet of Mighty fist +1? I suppose it evens out as it can only be used when raging.

Question 5: Would the amulet of the mighty fist make the attacks magic for DR? Doubt it.

Question 6: How do brass knuckles help a monk? It makes unarmed attacks lethal, but monks do that anyways. Could they be made magic and then add bonuses to them? How would that work with the amulet of mighty fists?

Are there any other options (Pathfinder only) that I have not considered?

I know I have asked a lot of questions so any help that I get is greatly appreciated.

[Tom Baumbach]

Derekjr wrote:

Question #1

You can't "two-hand" a light weapon, and unarmed attacks are always considered light weapons.

Derekjr wrote:

Question #2

If you make an unarmed attack without Improved Unarmed Strike (or being a monk), you provoke an attack of opportunity and your attack deals non-lethal damage (regardless of damage die). So while raging, you'd be fine, but you would need Improved Unarmed Strike for when not raging.

Derekjr wrote:

Question #3

Lesser elemental rage: swift action, gain +1d6 energy damage for 1 round, once per rage.

Elemental rage: gain +1d6 energy damage while raging

You are correct.

Derekjr wrote:

Question #4

Yes, Paizo added the option to add weapon qualities to unarmed attacks via amulet of mighty fists. Yes, you could use this to add a third +1d6 energy damage from a weapon quality applied to your unarmed attacks via amulet of mighty fists. You could not use a amulet and furious weapon in the same round - you would have to choose either the amulet or the rage power, as enhancement bonuses do not stack.

Derekjr wrote:

Question #5

Yes, if your unarmed attacks have a +1 or greater enhancement bonus to attack and damage from any source, they are considered magic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.

Derekjr wrote:

Question #6

Brass Knuckles do a lot of things.

1) Unarmed attacks become lethal.
2) Monks are proficient with them.
3) Monks can use their unarmed damage instead of the brass knuckle damage.
4) Monks can use flurry of blows with them.
5) You can hold other things while using brass knuckles
6) You can enchant brass knuckles because they are weapons.

The only interaction between brass knuckles and the amulet is with enhancement bonuses to attack. Since enhancement bonuses do not stack, you could not gain the benefit from both, though you can use each individually.

Derekjr wrote:

Are there any other options (Pathfinder only) that I have not considered?

Probably. :)

[Derekjr]

Tom Baumbach wrote:

Question #4

Yes, Paizo added the option to add weapon qualities to unarmed attacks via amulet of mighty fists. Yes, you could use this to add a third +1d6 energy damage from a weapon quality applied to your unarmed attacks via amulet of mighty fists. You could not use a amulet and furious weapon in the same round - you would have to choose either the amulet or the rage power, as enhancement bonuses do not stack.

Question on this part. The furious weapon is a weapon bonus of +1. I would choose this for the Amulet of the mighty fist instear od the +1 to attack and damage.

So I could not use these combined in one attack?

Amulet of mighty fists +2
- furious weapon (+2 enhancement bonus)
- +1D6 fire

Unarmed striek
- +1D6 punch

Elemental rage lesser and normal
- +1D6 once per rage
- +1D6

Thanks for the help on this. You helped a lot.

[Tom Baumbach]

Derekjr wrote:

Question on this part.

Ah I see, I misunderstood how furious weapon worked - had to look it up.

Feat: Improved Unarmed Strike
Rage Power: Brawler
Rage Power: Lesser Elemental Rage
Rage Power: Elemental Rage
Gear: Amulet of Mighty Fists (flaming, furious)

Yep, that works just fine. Note that your two elemental rage powers must provide different energy type bonuses, but that restriction doesn't apply to the amulet.

[Derekjr]

LOL. Thanks. My DM may or may not like it better than the weapon I use now.

Apretiate all the help!

[Tom Baumbach]

Just tell him that over time you're doing less damage, since your crit range isn't 25% of all possible rolls. :)

[Derekjr]

I guess I have one last question. For a barbarian, it would be cheaper to just use the brass knuckles over the amulet of the mighty fists. I wouldn't gain anything in using the amulet over the Knuckles, correct. Unless I would have to pay double when fighting with twf (one brass knuckle per hand)... where the amulet would give it to both fists to begin with?

And I planned on using the Crit damage in my argument already:)

plus it may be way more expensive than my current weapon.

[LoreKeeper]

I'd go with the amulet - but the knuckles are a cheaper entry into better bonuses to attack. (Masterwork knuckles gain you +1 to attack after all.)

The drawback of knuckles is the dependence on pairs (for TWF) and the limitation that all your other attacks (knee, headbutt, etc) do not benefit. Also consider that if you have enhancement bonuses to your unarmed strikes due to the amulet, these bonuses are also conferred to combat maneuvers performed using your unarmed strikes (trip, sunder, etc) - this is not true for the knuckles.