Ranged Sneak Attacks


Homebrew and House Rules

Silver Crusade

I am plaing a ranged rogue in PFS and have noticed it is very hard to make ranged sneak attacks. My Rogue has the Sniper Archtype from the APG and still I find difficult to make ranged sneak attacks. I think I hav come u with a soultion. Replace the Accuracy Archtype feature with Ranged Flanker

[Ranged Flanker} You no longer have to be adjacent to target when flanking and your threatened range is equal to your Deadly Accuracy range. All other flanking rules must be followed.

The Accuracy Deature could be added back at a higher level say el 3 or 4.

I think this would fix the Ranged sneak attack rules problem.


The APG feat "Gang Up" already covers the ability to flank at a range.

Gang Up wrote:
You are considered to be flanking an opponent if at least two of your allies are threatening that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Incorrect.

APG FAQ wrote:
The Gang Up feat allows you to count as flanking so long as two of your allies are threatening your opponent. The feat makes no mention of ranged attacks being included, and since flanking specifically refers to melee attacks, ranged attacks do not benefit from this feat.

Scarab Sages

Lou Diamond wrote:

I think I hav come u with a soultion. Replace the Accuracy Archtype feature with Ranged Flanker

[Ranged Flanker} You no longer have to be adjacent to target when flanking and your threatened range is equal to your Deadly Accuracy range. All other flanking rules must be followed.

I hear you however, if you go about this in this manner it is a house rule so do as you wish. Personally I think the bonus comes from getting up close and personal as TriOmegaZero suggests. Vital strike works from a distance. Maybe that is a way to make up your damage and you could take the whole progression.

Quote:


Vital Strike
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.

Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together, but do not multiply damage bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), or precision-based damage (such as sneak attack). This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit (although other damage bonuses are multiplied normally).

this is very similar to sneak attack but makes more sense from range. your bonus is tied to your knowledge of anatomy? and your ability (by taking only the single shot you are taking your time) to hit the regions that cause the most damage to your foe.

Silver Crusade

As stated gang up does not work for ranged attacks and would requre a rogue to burn an extra feat on combat expertise.

The Autors added something in the APG namely the Sniper Archtype without fully Thinking/playtesting it out.

Vital Strike requies you to be EL6 and only adds 1 damage die to your damage.

While nothing to sneeze at it still des not allow a ranged rogue to use his prmary class ability Sneak attack it goes the same for Percise Strike the teamwork feat.

The authors also have to take into account when doing prerqusites for feats that they will be used in PFS which has a level cap of 12.

New Ranged Sneak attack rules need to be written by the authors to fill a hole in thier otherwise very good and rich system.


As pointed out, a house rule isn't usable in PFS. I realize you're calling for a rule change.

I haven't read the actual ability you are concerned with, but ranged sneak attack is an incredibly powerful ability. Generally sneak attack is high damage, but high danger, while ranged is low danger, but lower damage. Ranged sneak attack has low danger, high damage, so should not be inconsequential to achieve, particularly at low level.


Lou Diamond wrote:

I am plaing a ranged rogue in PFS and have noticed it is very hard to make ranged sneak attacks. My Rogue has the Sniper Archtype from the APG and still I find difficult to make ranged sneak attacks. I think I hav come u with a soultion. Replace the Accuracy Archtype feature with Ranged Flanker

[Ranged Flanker} You no longer have to be adjacent to target when flanking and your threatened range is equal to your Deadly Accuracy range. All other flanking rules must be followed.

The Accuracy Deature could be added back at a higher level say el 3 or 4.

I think this would fix the Ranged sneak attack rules problem.

Per pathfinder, here is what it states about rogue sneak attacks:

The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.


Sneak attack damage is there to give a "sneaky" way of getting damage in. It's countered by usually limited attack bonus, limited chances of occurring (typically once per round with stealth or feinting), and typically dangerous to pull off when unlimited (flanking).

Ranged combat suffers in pumping damage per strike, but gives you added defense in keeping away from the target, and being able to full attack your enemies more often than the melee option (countering low damage with more attacks).

Combine those two and you get a perfect storm that'll quickly get out of the DM's hands: frequently fully unlimited (full attack) sneak attack at a relatively safe position.

And for those that feel Sneak Attack like this is fine because of the 30' range limitation (easily within charge distance), there's two problems:

1. The very archetype that the OP talks about has an ability that increases that limitation by 10' every 3 levels (eventually hitting 90 feet).

2. Please check the magic item section for the Sniper Goggles. Now you can Sneak Attack at any distance. Yeah. Imagine a full attack of Sneak Attack damage from hundreds of feet away.. because someone is standing on the other side of your target.

I rather like these options/items, and wouldn't want to have to take out the option of a crossbow sniper character shooting Sneak Attack damage shots (once per round) 200' away, by restricting/removing the magic item.

____________________________

That all being said, I can see for an option that opens thing up, just a little...
Here's how I'd do it:

EXPLOIT DISTRACTION
You can take advantage of your target's momentary drop in guard when being attacked.
Prerequisites: Dex 15+, Combat Reflexes, Rapid Shot, Sneak Attack +1d6
Benefit: If an enemy within your Sneak Attack range (typically 30 feet) takes damage from a melee attack, you take an immediate action to make an Attack of Opportunity against the target. The target loses his dexterity bonus to AC for this attack and Sneak Attack damage can be applied.

Making it an immediate action causes it to only occur once per round, and use up your swift action (which some classes use more now, such as the skirmisher ranger), as well as use up a resource (your Attacks of Opportunity). Granted, in this case it allows you to use a normally unusable resource, but it's still a cost (perhaps you are using throwing weapons, and in fact DO threaten enemies who might provoke).
On the flip side, it gives you extra damage typically not usable, and an extra attack out-of-turn on to of that.

Scarab Sages

I know i have already suggested it but I believe the Pathfinder peeps have it right. To sneak attack you NEED to be close therefor putting your character at risk. However for those wishing for that one big damage attack take the vital strike feat chain, with greater you get three times the damage so with a composite longbow you would deal 3d8+str not bad from 110feet away. I understand having fighter barbarian damage envy, but your character doesn't walk into traps or clink every time she steps does she? It's just a different type of char. Now add damage from whatever enchantment you also have on your missiles as well.

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